Sanders: 'To hell with the fossil fuel industry’
Source: The Hill
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) on Saturday called for Republicans to abandon the corrupting influence of the Koch brothers and other wealthy energy magnates.
This is a party that rejects science and refuses to understand that climate change is real, he said of GOP during the annual Blue Jamboree in North Charleston, S.C.
I understand if you stand up to the Koch brothers and the fossil fuel industry, that youll lose your campaign contributions, the 2016 Democratic presidential candidate added.
{Climate change} is already causing devastating problems all over this world. To hell with the fossil fuel industry. Worry more about your children and your grandchildren than your campaign contributions.
Read more: http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/261019-sanders-to-hell-with-the-fossil-fuel-industry
I love this man
First Speaker
(4,858 posts)...Hunter Thompson, in his postmortem on McGovern in 1972, famously said that the latter lacked "a dark streak of Mick Jagger in his soul". Sanders has that streak, and it's helping him connect to the people. If the GOP remains as crazy as it is, Bernie Sanders just might go all the way. I've pretty much been a "sensible" Dem so far--you know: of course we have to rally around Mrs Clinton. If she is the nominee, I'll support her enthusiastically. But Sanders is starting to convince me...
adir
(33 posts)There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
dinkytron
(568 posts)big ideas and truth and about not bullshitting ourselves about the mess we are in regarding money, power, equality, the environment. And when you wrap yourself around these ideas which is basically about just listening to "our better angels" as some would say, its pretty hard to unwrap yourself. Its hard to bullshit yourself that is there really is any other viable alternative. Bernie is the closest thing to an antidote. By a process of elimination... the Republican field of stink and Hillary may be a great leader and a terrific person but she is establishment. entrenched and handled. And I don't think that is going to fly this election. I think it is a deal breaker. Bernie is a tough guy with a morale compass that is intact. That is a great combination. I think he can win it, too.
WHEN CRABS ROAR
(3,813 posts)Now is the time for a real progressive populist movement, but the message needs to be clear and not overly complex and it needs to be repeated over and over to drive it home into the minds of the people.
Then Bernie will win.
azmom
(5,208 posts)Of this planet. We need to fight like hell.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)appalachiablue
(41,171 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)MoreGOPoop
(417 posts)To Hell with the Oilygarchy! Bern it up!
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Bernie Sanders--once again--said what needed to be said! Without apologies, without equivocation, without any doubt about what he means.
This man! I love this man!!
I never thought that a REAL presidential candidate would be saying the things that all of us have been saying for so long. Except it's not a poster on Reddit, or a columnist from Huffington Post or a liberal guest on Bill Mahr. It's a Democratic presidential candidate!
Mr Sanders, you are a very tall, cold glass of ice water in a parched, weary nation that is thirsting for courage, TRUTH, wisdom and an end to the damage that most of our current leaders have inflicted on this country.
Thank you!!! Thank you Senator Sanders for being the voice of "We The People"--and saying the things that need to be said and the things that must be said if to save our democracy!!!!
d
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Jackilope
(819 posts)The absolute ONLY candidate that is speaking the truth.
Happy to rec this!!
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)He totally speaks for my vision of a better country.
Fritz Walter
(4,292 posts)So, too, are the fossil fuel investors in denial about their fate.
It is inevitable.
Those who can adapt -- in this case, by investing in renewable energy -- will survive.
The others will perish.
Hopefully, before the whole ecosystem does as a result of their unbridled greed.
truthisfreedom
(23,155 posts)Truth tellers scare the powers that be!
bread_and_roses
(6,335 posts)Telling it like it is!
On edit - inc subject line - WE MUST TAKE CARE OF THE WORKERS WHO DEPEND ON THOSE INDUSTRIES - the coal miners, the oil rig workers - THAT is the root of the environmentalists/labor conflict. JOBS - & a REAL safety net for those with no jobs.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)hippie restrictions (this is big in the nuclear industry I'm studying on the side: Silkwood was killed for threatening employment, remember)
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
madokie
(51,076 posts)he has no fear of anyone or anything that stands in the way of a better world for all inhabitants.
I like the way he carries himself, what I mean by that is he is saying exactly what he's been wanting to say all along.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)..... replace fossil fuels with ? Sunshine ?
In all seriousness, there aren't any viable alternatives to fossil fuels that would allow us to tell them to go to hell. I suggest a more moderate approach.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)We have so much sunshine you would not believe it.
What we lack is water.
Our sunshine could provide energy for a good part of the country. Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico and parts of Texas, also sun states.
We have more solar potential than most Americans realize. It's a matter of putting up the panels. The fossil fuels industry does not want it to happen. And Americans who live outside the Southwest have no clue as to what potential our Soutwestern sunshine has.
What we need is a president who can communicate to the doubters what much more investment in solar power could do for the US.
The fossil fuels will either run out or nearly kill life on our planet.
What do you pick -- developing solar energy for the country meaning paying the taxes to put in the panels and set up a system of delivery or waiting until either the fossil fuels run out or life on our planet is impossible?
What is your choice?
The status quo is not a choice.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts).., as well as non-carbon fossil fuels such as uranium.
But we are a long, long, long way from being able to tell the fossil fuel industries to "go to hell". That would mean economic collapse .
Maybe Bernie was just exaggerating in order to get attention and fire up the base. Then when he gets the nomination he'll move to the right . After he's elected he'll dodge the issue . That would be better than economic collapse.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)she plowed with her feet as a child. She rode a wagon led by a horse to school.
Now think where we are. When was the last time you saw a child out in a big field plowing with her feet. That's a lifetime more than mine.
Germany has made great progress in switching to at least a greater percentage of renewable fuel, solar fuel, and Germany's climate is cold and wet. If Germany can start the transition, we can.
The key is that we need to start the transition or we will lose out. We are one of the biggest if not the biggest polluter on earth. We have to change our lifestyle so as to eventually cut out fossil fuels.
Here in California, we can see the workings of climate change. The ocean at our seashore is warmer. Our countryside is warmer too. Some of our drought may be due to historical fluctuations in rainfall. But not all of it.
Climate change is real, and the fossil fuel companies need to stop discouraging us from changing our economy so that their products become obsolete or close to obsolete.
Let me know how your horse is doing back their in your barn or stable. Because a century ago, lots of people still rode horses in parts of our country -- for transportation and work. Cars were around, but people still relied on horses in the country especially.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts).... we won't be as dependent on fossil fuels and we will have green house gasses under control . And, of course , over the next four to eight years we are going to be basically as dependent on fossil fuel energy sources as we are now. So the next president, whoever she might be is not going to be telling the fossil fuel industries to "go to hell".
IMHO, it is irresponsible demagoguery to suggest otherwise.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It is irresponsible to treat them with any respect. They do not treat the environment that we rely on for our lives with any respect at all.
We have to move much more quickly to ending our reliance on fossil fuels. The sooner the better. Fossil fuels will become economically impractical for much of mankind before very long anyway. The oil being drilled for now is harder to bring up than the oil we used in the 1960s. Our cars, etc. are more fuel-efficient. But fuel efficiency will not save us. We have to develop other forms of fuel. This is less of a problem here in Southern California than it is in say the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
But pussy-footing around and being polite with the oil industry is foolish.
I remember when a barrel of crude oil cost $3.25 to $4.50. That was in 1972-73.
The oil crisis sent that price up. I remember that quite clearly because I worked in a job that required me to know a lot about crude oil prices.
Today a barrel of crude oil is about $40.39. It has been higher.
http://www.oil-price.net/
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)..... because we are dependent on fossil fuels for our health, wealth , and welll being. And we aren't going to any time soon, either - because we are dependent on fossil fuels for our health, wealth , and welll being.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It's a matter of where we invest money and why.
We are now investing in slightly better public transportation, but we needed to do this long, long ago.
The traffic in LA is terrible. It gets worse every year. It's a matter of choices and when people do not have the intelligence or courage to tell the fossil fuel industry to go to hell and pay the taxes that can fund projects that will reduce our use of fossil fuel, our civilization will not last long.
Fossil fuels are making our lives comfortable? At the same time, they are killing us and our environment, slowly but surely.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)..,. all though much longer term, would be significant, global population reduction. Now that would make a difference, a big difference .
In any case, other than ineffectual pissing and moaning, we won't be telling the fossil fuel industries to go to hell any time soon. It would be too self destructive .
madokie
(51,076 posts)here in my adopted town who rode a horse for his transportation all the way up to the end. I think he was 99 YO when he died. Died in his sleep.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)conservationist. We would call him an environmentalist today. Horses eat a lot. I suppose that is not good for the environment. But what they eat turns into fertilizer sooner or later so they continue the cycle of life. The problem with burning stuff like fossil fuels is that it does not further the cycle of life.
But if we all rode horses, that would be a problem too. In a city like Los Angeles, however, we need to get out of our cars and walk and ride public transportation.
MichMan
(11,972 posts)There is no feasible way to stop fossil fuels in the near future. Solar and wind is fine longer term and we need to encourage it, but we are a long ways away from that replacing oil for energy. There is a reason that Europe has made progress; they tax gasoline very high to discourage its use and to pay for mass transit etc.
The tax on gas in Europe is something like $5/gallon. If Bernie Sanders is serious about replacing fossil fuels quicker he should propose that as part of his platform. Thinking the vast majority of voters won't care for it though.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)deduct the tax costs from their income taxes as a business expense.
But the rest of us need to get with the program.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Bad joke............
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Once we fight off Nestle's water bottling plant we should be ok for awhile.
Volaris
(10,274 posts)If we moved the subsidy budget of just the oil industry and used it for ONE YEAR we could build the largest solar panel plant in human history, and put those things on the roof of everyone in the country who thinks paying an electric bill to ANOTHER corporation every month is a dumb idea.
Yes, the Government should control the Means of Production here, because it's quite clear that the Energy Industry doesn't want to.
Fuck em then.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)...we don't have the capacity to manufacture solar panels. I think the problem is that solar panels don't have the capacity to supply our demand for electricity.
We aren't in a position yet to say "go to hell " to fossil fuels.
Yallow
(1,926 posts)No viable alternatives?
What were you the poster child of PosterChild?
Lack of solutions?
I have used 5 gallons of gas in 2 months.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts).... may be a volt. But your volt isn't carbon free; the electricity to charge it is almost certainly coming from a fossil fuel source.
So we are not yet in a position to say "to hell with fossil fuels". If we did your volt would run out of electricity.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)and now. 50 million Americans living in poverty don't want to hear "moderate".
PosterChild
(1,307 posts).... are going to be mighty pissed when they have to spend the winter in the cold and the dark because we said "to hell with fossil fuels".
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)to get us out of this hole that the wealthy 1% and their bought and paid for politicians have dug for us.
A vote for Clinton is a vote to continue the continued widening wealth gap that is literally killing Americans living in poverty. Vote for Goldman-Sachs for more corp-profits and more poverty.
How can a Democrat justify supporting the billionaires and Wall Street.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)...., and to a lot of other people also, saying "to hell with fossil fuels" just won't be possible in the upcoming decades . This is an example of a conflict between short term and long term progressive goals.
Some problems, such as climate change, just don't have easy, reasonable, short term solutions. Getting angry and adopting extreme measures won't help. It will only hurt those who are already hurting and will hurt quite a few more also. Moderation is called for because moderation has the best chance to solve the problem and to do so in a humaine way.
Extremism demands that one, or a few, goals be pursued to the exclusion of other goals and values and without regard to the general consequences. Extremism is inherently inhumane.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)is "inhumane". Allowing oil profits to come before water quality for the People is inhumane. People are literally dying for lack of proper diet, inadequate health care, etc. We have the highest infant mortality rate of all modern nations. Fixing that isn't extreme.
What's sad is that we've normalized corporations looting the middle and working classes and any mention to change that is labelled extreme by those wanting no change.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts).... i am not against change, nor do I label any mention of change at all as being extreme. My objection is to the sugestion that we tell the fossil fuel industry "to go to hell". We aren't going to be able to do without fossil fuels for decades , maybe even tens of decades, and that being the case I find this sort of rhetoric objectionable and destructive of the careful , considered approach we have to take in order to solve complex problems without doing more harm than good.
As you know , unfair as it is, Sanders has been slandered as an obnoxious , angry old man. Part of the reason for that may be his habit of indulging in this sort of ill considered demagoguery.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)HRC's fortune will grow, the profits of the mega-corps will grow and the poverty rates will grow. They can't keep us down forever. The longer this situation of corrupt government run by billionaires goes the more sever the eventual reaction.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)..... the alternative to fossil fuels, within the foreseeable future, is basically zero. So get used to having those fossil fuel industries around for a while longer .
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)It's irrational to think there are merely two possibilities-- cold winters or dependency on fossil fuels.
Though I imagine an attempt to rationalize will be forthcoming...
demigoddess
(6,644 posts)abilities in this country. Especially the non-commercial types. So that when the power lines go down in winter, very few people lose their power at home. Now that would be a fabulous country. I say add self sufficient power to all new homes, businesses and factories.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts).... not easily done.
DhhD
(4,695 posts)PosterChild
(1,307 posts).... to tell the fossil fuel industries to " go to hell " ? Or maybe it's a little to soon for that.
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)It's hard!!!
GeorgeGist
(25,323 posts)about putting a man on the moon.
Luciferous
(6,085 posts)PosterChild
(1,307 posts)Which is pretty good, but not "go to hell" good.
http://www.awea.org/MediaCenter/pressrelease.aspx?ItemNumber=7294
In order to fully evaluate the Iowa statistic you would have to know how much electricity is actually consumed in Iowa. If the state isn't very populated , relatively little wind might be needed to make a substantial proportion.
I think the national percentage is probably the best indicator of where we are at and what the magnitude of the challenge is.
demigoddess
(6,644 posts)did you watch 60minutes last night?
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)They know climate change is real in South Carolina. Many own coastal homes that are losing value every day. It is an economic disaster mostly affecting the people that are traditional Republicans. This could be a huge issue in South Carolina.
Paka
(2,760 posts)We just have to work hard and make sure we see him in the White House.
GO BERNIE!!!
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)DFW
(54,437 posts)If we were to build a solar panel grid 100 square miles (ten miles by ten miles) out in the desert somewhere, we could supply most of the electricity needs of the United states with it.
We'd still need fossil fuels for long distance motor vehicles and airplanes, plus we'd have a LOT of out-of-work people in the fossil and nuclear fuel industries that would need social assistance for years. Even so, the long-term transition is not an option. The only question is if we get to it too late or not.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)Just look at the minor consequences we are facing so far. This is nothing. It is Eden in comparison to a generation from now. When one considers the cost to the poorest of the world and to the natural world. It is almost beyond comprehension.
The longer they can drag on business as usual the more they can insulate themselves with proceeds from the horrible reality they are creating and cloaking in secrecy.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)Anyone trying to suggest that Bernie wants to immediately cap every well on the planet and replace or eliminate the multitude of non-energy things currently relying on oil cannot possibly be serious. We are not left with just two alternatives: drill baby drill, or life in a straw hut.
Stuart G
(38,445 posts)To say something like that,.... puts him against Exon Mobile..and Chevron, and Shell and BP..those guys got lots of money.
wonder if those guys will be for Bernie?????.... ..
nope..Those guys will be for .....anybody but Bernie.....
oh..about climate change...last night we had a hard freeze..today is Nov 21..My tomato plant in front of my place froze out.I live in a northern climate ..near Milwaukee..I can't remember these kinds of plants ever, that is ever..surviving this late in the season. So...Bernie is correct on this one...
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)of the ordinary that a political candidate sides with the people, but it is a shocking break from ordinary campaign rhetoric.
What does that say about how far we have fallen from the days when both Democrats (like FDR) and Republicans (like T Roosevelt and Ike) unequivocally sided with the people against the corporations; and ,nowadays, that is a bold departure from the status quo?
WHEN CRABS ROAR
(3,813 posts)Now is the time for a real progressive populist movement, but the message needs to be clear and not overly complex and it needs to be repeated over and over to drive it home into the minds of the people.
Then Bernie will win.
Yallow
(1,926 posts)My Volt is a 2011 and when it is warm gets 35 to 38 miles on battery before the "engine" generator "starts".
Today I will drive to work, and plug it in.
Leave work with full battery, drive home, plug it in.
Drive to brother in law's (12 miles one way) and try to get home on battery.
Even if my engine starts for a mile or two, my car gets almost 40 mpg after the battery is drained.
So I may use 1/10 of a gallon of gas this week......
Don't tell me that we "need" to burn 10 gallons per week per American.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20150325/OEM06/150329911/average-u.s.-gasoline-usage-lowest-in-3-decades-study-says
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)..... next car I buy probably will be one. But don't kid yourself , that electricity is coming from somewhere and that somewhere is burning something and that something is releasing co2.
Yallow
(1,926 posts)Water Power
As clean as you can get, though not perfect.....
PosterChild
(1,307 posts).... not true for the nation as a whole.
Even if we aren't there yet, electric cars are advantageous because as we build out more renewable and reduced carbon electrical generation capabilities, they automatically take advantage of it. That's why I want one even though it will be awhile before my power sources are carbon free.
But you knew that.
Yallow
(1,926 posts)Tell your grandchildren what seafood used to taste like.....
National Geographic
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/11/061102-seafood-threat.html
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)...., and proposes some improvements that can be made
"Where we [protect marine areas] around the worldfrom the tropics to temperate ecosystemswe see an increase in species diversity and productivity and stability and economic revenue from those ecosystems," he said. ....The study recommends an ecosystem management approach that sets aside some zones completely off-limits to any human activity while opening others to certain uses, such as recreation, research, and fishing. "It's exactly what we do on land, and we've been doing it for a long time," Worm said.
No where does he sugest that we abandon fossil fuels. The aproach he recomends is quite reasonable and is, in fact, being implemented - Obama has recently expanded our marine preservation zones.
So what does this have to do with saying to hell with fossil fuels ?
Zorra
(27,670 posts)PatrickforO
(14,588 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)spews truths more often than Old Faithful spews hot water. And both truth and hot water are what the Koch's should be doused with.
FEEL THE BERN, brothers of hate and greed!
ArcticFox
(1,249 posts)Only a straw man portrays Sanders as about to end use of all fossil fuels overnight.
But unless we say "to hell with it," and start extracting less and less until we're using a bare minimum, we'll find ourselves in the future both (1) with an inhospitable environment and (2) suddenly running out of fossil fuels with no alternative power system in place.
The resulting suffering would vastly exceed the slight discomfort of increased energy costs in the short term that would result from increasing our use of renewables.
Clearly, Sanders has facts and truth on his side. Nobody can just throw a switch and turn off the oil or coal overnight.
Uncle Joe
(58,420 posts)Thanks for the thread, Attorney in Texas.