Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

shawn703

(2,702 posts)
Wed May 23, 2012, 07:19 AM May 2012

Most radiation doses from Fukushima within norms: WHO

Source: Reuters

GENEVA (Reuters) - Radiation doses received after the Fukushima nuclear accident last year were below international reference levels in all but two locations in Japan and below the level seen as "very small" in neighboring countries, the World Health Organization said on Wednesday.

The preliminary report by independent experts found that, using conservative assumptions, people in two locations of relatively high exposure in Fukushima prefecture may have received a dose of 10-50 millisieverts (mSv) in the year after the accident at the power station operated by TEPCO.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE84M0IA20120523

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Most radiation doses from Fukushima within norms: WHO (Original Post) shawn703 May 2012 OP
Meanwhile in Brooklyn... DontTreadOnMe May 2012 #1
Thank you. Delphinus May 2012 #2
It's not impossible; nevertheless, I think the their math is incorrect Art_from_Ark May 2012 #6
Good point caraher May 2012 #8
Here is information from a Japanese source Art_from_Ark May 2012 #11
I can clarify that for you. FBaggins May 2012 #12
Just for clarification Art_from_Ark May 2012 #13
40 inches high? RobertEarl May 2012 #14
Eye-- and nose-- level Art_from_Ark May 2012 #17
Just want to let you know, Art RobertEarl May 2012 #18
That is very commendable of you Art_from_Ark May 2012 #19
I tend to trust the WHO. Odin2005 May 2012 #3
And I; greiner3 May 2012 #4
In the past, matbe. But this idiocy shows it has been "captured" like everything else. PSPS May 2012 #5
except when the WHO is doing things like becoming involved in a kickback scheme to falsely push the stockholmer May 2012 #7
Nothing to worry about. As safe as a scanner at an airport. AnotherMcIntosh May 2012 #9
Live/Streaming Radiation Measurements at ustream.com--Here are some links-Japan, USA solarman350 May 2012 #10
I duplcated this in error dipsydoodle May 2012 #15
Within norms? Glow-in-the-dark norms? tawadi May 2012 #16

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
6. It's not impossible; nevertheless, I think the their math is incorrect
Wed May 23, 2012, 09:27 AM
May 2012

10 millisieverts in one year would be equal to 10,000 microsieverts. The microsievert is the usual unit used to show hourly readings (μSv/h). Converting yearly into hourly level, 10,000 / 365 / 24 = 1.14 microsieverts per hour. There are many places in Fukushima Prefecture where hourly readings still exceed that level, even taking into account that the WHO did not measure levels within the 20km/12mile exclusion zone.

It is obvious from this map produced by Fukushima Prefecture, that there are many places in the prefecture outside of the exclusion zone where even today hourly readings exceed 1.14 microsieverts per hour:

http://fukushima-radioactivity.jp/

caraher

(6,279 posts)
8. Good point
Wed May 23, 2012, 09:50 AM
May 2012

Do you have access to the WHO report? The Reuters piece is pretty vague (when they say "except for 2 locations" how big is a "location?" How many people live/lived in said "locations?&quot

It would also be interesting to compare this with maps of Cs-137 concentrations, since it's not terribly hard to estimate a mean exposure rate from an assumed uniform surface distribution of a contaminant.

It's also unclear whether this estimate takes into account internal exposures, or only reflects what one would read on a dosimeter...

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
11. Here is information from a Japanese source
Thu May 24, 2012, 01:12 AM
May 2012

Apparently, "location" refers to an entire municipality. According to the report, the two municipalities that exceeded 10 millisieverts per year were Namie and Iidate (information based on readings taken 4 months after the disaster). Yearly levels for all other municipalities in the prefecture outside of the exclusion zone were between 1 and 10 millisieverts, and levels in surrounding prefectures/states (including mine) were between 0.1 and 10 millisieverts. Levels in all other areas in Japan were between 0.1 and 1 millisievert.

http://sankei.jp.msn.com/region/news/120523/fks12052323230004-n1.htm

However, WHO acknowledges that "the amount of data was limited, and calculations were based on many assumptions, including how much time was spent indoors and outdoors". According to the Japanese article, "excessively low radiation values were excluded, so there is a possibility that values may be excessively high".

 WHOは「情報量が限られている上、屋内外で過ごした時間など多くの仮定を基に計算している」と説明。被曝線量の過小評価を防ぐため、数値が過大になっている可能性もあるとしている。

FBaggins

(26,773 posts)
12. I can clarify that for you.
Thu May 24, 2012, 06:58 AM
May 2012
The microsievert is the usual unit used to show hourly readings (μSv/h).

That's one of the problems with how we try to simplify the conversation for lay-people. The sievert is actually not a unit of activity or exposure. It's a unit of adjusted absorbed dose. But just about all of the recording (and all of the civilian radiation detectors that I've seen them using), just make assumptions about the conversion between the two.

As an example... If there's an alpha source sitting next to you, your personal meter can estimate your exposure to that radiation. But alpha particles generally don't get past the dead skin cells in the outer layers of your skin. So you actual absorbed dose would be far smaller.

The other oversimplification is to take a reading at one point (almost always the highest reading in an area) and assume that's the dose the person received 24/7 for the last year. Sure, if you lay down in that drainage ditch where the cesium has been accumulating and stay there for a year... you'll get that exposure (though not likely that absorbed dose)... but nobody does that.

It's useful to note that the estimates so far appear to actually be high, not low. They, for instance, estimated the high-end of the range of thyroid doses to children and thought that some of them could be high enough to increase their risk of thyroid cancer in a significant way... but of the 1000+ children whose dose was actually measures, none came close to that high estimate.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
13. Just for clarification
Thu May 24, 2012, 07:48 AM
May 2012

The Japanese readings are taken at one meter (40 inches) above ground level, presumably to represent the level at which the most vulnerable (small children) are exposed.

Second, the maps provided by Fukushima Prefecture (monthly averages converted into hourly data) show little improvement in the worst areas over the past one year plus, with many locations outside of the 20km exclusion zone still registering readings above 5 microsieverts per hour. So yes, one can interpolate that to mean that the exposure has been pretty steady since the explosions of March 14, 2011.

Third, even the WHO admits their data are limited, and there are other factors that could affect their results, such as their assumptions for time spent outdoors.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
14. 40 inches high?
Thu May 24, 2012, 11:29 AM
May 2012

That's like maybe eyeball level.

Lots of radiation loses power after a few inches of travel, i do believe.

So it seems to me that ground level radiation would be the best place for monitoring the wee ones, not eye ball level.

Too, it seems that the particles which floated in air and are now deposited on the ground are where the highest concentration of radiation lies.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
17. Eye-- and nose-- level
Thu May 24, 2012, 04:28 PM
May 2012

The easiest way for this kind of radiation to penetrate the body is through breathing. Kids usually aren't going to be breathing at the ground level.

Saying that, many municipalities in the affected area, even 100+ miles to the south of the reactors, have actually removed dirt from playgrounds and school grounds.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
18. Just want to let you know, Art
Thu May 24, 2012, 07:43 PM
May 2012

My heart bleeds for the residents of Japan.

I pray we can stop such a problem from ever happening again.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
19. That is very commendable of you
Fri May 25, 2012, 02:13 AM
May 2012

These disasters-- earthquake, tsunami, and nuclear-- have been an on-going nightmare, and as a resident of Japan, and as a resident of what was called a "disaster-affected area" (and we've also had a tornado disaster recently), I appreciate and share your concern.

 

greiner3

(5,214 posts)
4. And I;
Wed May 23, 2012, 09:09 AM
May 2012

Tend to believe the studies, those done by organizations without any ulterior motives.

The WHO is a GREAT organization. However, I can imagine there is immense pressure for them to come out with a study with these conclusions.

I, for one, will wait until the full study is available so I can read how their data was collected and parsed.

I HOPE I am wrong with my conclusions.

 

stockholmer

(3,751 posts)
7. except when the WHO is doing things like becoming involved in a kickback scheme to falsely push the
Wed May 23, 2012, 09:43 AM
May 2012

H1N1 and other 'pandemics' and vaccine sales.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/04/AR2010060403034.html

European criticism of the World Health Organization's handling of the H1N1 pandemic intensified Friday with the release of two reports that accused the agency of exaggerating the threat posed by the virus and failing to disclose possible influence by the pharmaceutical industry on its recommendations for how countries should respond.

The WHO's response caused widespread, unnecessary fear and prompted countries around the world to waste millions of dollars, according to one report. At the same time, the Geneva-based arm of the United Nations relied on advice from experts with ties to drug makers in developing the guidelines it used to encourage countries to stockpile millions of doses of antiviral medications, according to the second report.

The reports outlined the drumbeat of criticism that has arisen, primarily in Europe, of how the world's leading health organization responded to the first influenza pandemic in more than four decades.

"For WHO, its credibility has been badly damaged," wrote Fiona Godlee, the editor of the BMJ, a prominent British medical journal, that published one of the reports. "WHO must act now to restore its credibility."


snip

---------------------------------------------

Mega Corruption Scandal At The WHO: WHO's 'Mr Flu' Holland's Albert Osterhaus has deep ties to pharma industry

http://www.skp.se/blogg/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Mega-Corruption-Scandal-At-The-WHO.pdf

The WHO gets more money from private pharma and related industry sources than from governments. The UK Pharma Giant GlaxoSmithKline is at the heart of the WHO scandals of influence peddling

The man with the nickname "Dr Flu", Professor Albert Osterhaus, of the Erasmus University in Rotterdam Holland has been named by Dutch media researchers as the person at the center of the worldwide Swine Flu H1N1 Influenza A 2009 pandemic hysteria. Not only is Osterhaus the connecting person in an international network that has been described as the Pharma Mafia, he is THE key advisor to WHO on influenza and is intimately positioned to personally profit from the billions of euros in vaccines allegedly aimed at H1N1. Earlier this year the Second Chamber of the Netherlands Parliament undertook an investigation into alleged conflicts of interest and financial improprieties of the well-known Dr. Osterhaus. Outside of Holland and the Dutch media, the only note of the sensational investigation into Osterhaus' business affairs came in a tiny note in the respected British magazine, Science.

Osterhaus's credentials and expertise in his field were not in question. What is in question, according to a short report published by the journal Science, are his links to corporate interests that stand to potentially profit from the swine flu pandemic. Science carried the following brief note in its October 16 2009 issue about Osterhaus: " For the past 6 months, one could barely switch on the television in the Netherlands without seeing the face of famed virus hunter Albert Osterhaus talking about the swine flu pandemic. Or so it has seemed. Osterhaus, who runs an internationally renowned virus lab at Erasmus Medical Center, has been Mr. Flu. But last week, his reputation took a nosedive after it was alleged that he has been stoking pandemic fears to promote his own business interests in vaccine development.Last week, his reputation took a nosedive after it was alleged that he has been stoking pandemic fears to promote his own business interests in vaccine development. As Science went to press, the Dutch House of Representatives had even slated an emergency debate about the matter."

On November 3, 2009 it appeared that Osterhaus emerged with at least the damage somewhat under control. An updated Science blog noted, "The House of Representatives of the Netherlands today rejected a motion asking the government to sever all ties with virologist Albert Osterhaus of Erasmus Medical Center in Rotterdam, who had been accused of conflicts of interest in his role as a government adviser. But Dutch health minister Ab Klink, meanwhile, announced a "Sunshine Act" compelling scientists to disclose their financial ties to companies." The Minister, Ab Klink, reportedly a personal friend of Osterhaus, subsequently issued a statement on the ministry's website, claiming that Osterhaus was but one of many scientific advisers to the ministry on vaccines for H1N1, and that the Ministry "knew" about the financial interests of Osterhaus. Nothing out of the ordinary, merely pursuit of science and public health, so it seemed. More careful investigation into the Osterhaus Affair suggests that the world-renowned Dutch Virologist may be at the very center of a multi-billion Euro pandemic fraud which has used human beings in effect as human guinea pigs with untested vaccines and in cases now emerging, resulting in deaths or severe bodily paralysis or injury.

snip

Albert Osterhaus is no small fish. He stands at the global nexus of every major virus panic of the past decade from the mysterious SARS deaths in HongKong, where current WHO Director Margaret Chan got her start in her career as a local health official. According to his official bio at the European Commission, Osterhaus was engaged in April 2003, at the height of the panic over SARS (Severe Acquired Respiratory Syndrome) in investigation of the Hong Kong outbreak of respiratory illnesses. The EU report states, "he again showed his skill at moving fast to tackle a serious problem. Within three weeks he had proved that the disease was caused by a newly discovered coronavirus that resides in civet cats, other carnivorous animals or bats."

Then Osterhaus moved on as SARS cases vanished from view, this time publicizing dangers of what he claimed was H5N1 Avian Flu. In 1997 he had already began sounding the alarm following the death in Hong Kong of a three-year-old who Osterhaus learned had had direct contact with birds. Osterhaus went into high gear lobbying across Holland and Europe claiming that a deadly new mutation of avian flu had jumped to humans and that drastic measures were required. He claimed to be the first scientist in the world to show that H5N1 could be transferred into humans. In a BBC interview in October 2005 on the danger of Avian Flu, Osterhaus declared, "if the virus manages indeed to, to mutate itself in such a way that it can transmit from human to human, then we have a completely different situation, we might be at the start of the pandemic." He added, "there is a real chance that this virus could be trafficked by the birds all the way to Europe. There is a real risk, but nobody can estimate the risk at this moment, because we haven't done the experiments." It never did manage to mutate, but he was ready to "do the experiments," presumably for a hefty fee.

snip

--------------------------------------------------------

(Dr.Wolfgang Wodarg, head of Health at the Council of Europe):

The 'false' pandemic: Drug firms cashed in on scare over swine flu, claims Euro health chief


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1242147/The-false-pandemic-Drug-firms-cashed-scare-swine-flu-claims-Euro-health-chief.html#ixzz1vhOSxznx

The swine flu outbreak was a 'false pandemic' driven by drug companies that stood to make billions of pounds from a worldwide scare, a leading health expert has claimed. Wolfgang Wodarg, head of health at the Council of Europe, accused the makers of flu drugs and vaccines of influencing the World Health Organisation's decision to declare a pandemic.

This led to the pharmaceutical firms ensuring 'enormous gains', while countries, including the UK, 'squandered' their meagre health budgets, with millions being vaccinated against a relatively mild disease. A resolution proposed by Dr Wodarg calling for an investigation into the role of drug firms has been passed by the Council of Europe, the Strasbourg-based 'senate' responsible for the European Court of Human Rights. An emergency debate on the issue will be held later this month.

Dr Wodarg's claims come as it emerged the British government is desperately trying to offload up to £1billion of swine flu vaccine, ordered at the height of the scare. Chief Medical Officer Sir Liam Donaldson last year ordered the NHS to plan for up to 65,000 deaths
The Department of Health warned of 65,000 deaths, set up a special advice line and website, suspended normal rules so anti-flu drugs could be given out without prescription and told health and local authorities to prepare for a major pandemic.

Planners were told to get morgues ready for the sheer scale of deaths and there were warnings that the Army could be called in to prevent riots as people fought to obtain drugs. But with fewer than 5,000 in England catching the disease last week and just 251 deaths overall, Dr Wodarg has branded the H1N1 outbreak as 'one of the greatest medical scandals of the century'.

snip

------------------------------

related

http://www.bild.de/news/bild-english/news/does-virus-vaccine-increase-risk-of-cancer-9295686.bild.html

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/swine-flu-a-false-pandemic-to-sell-vaccines-expert-says/story-e6frev00-1225818409903

http://www.humanite.fr/2010-01-07_Societe_Grippe-A-L-implacable-requisitoire-du-depute-Wodarg

Pharmaceutical companies are thought to have made a profit of somewhere in the region of $7.5-$10 billion on H1N1 vaccines, recouping the billions they had invested in researching and developing pandemic vaccines after the bird flu scares in 2006 and 2007. The worldwide death toll from H1N1 is thought to be around 13,500, just over a third of the number who die from regular flu every year in the U.S. alone.

Heading the hearings is the former chairman of the Health Committee of PACE, Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg. A former German lawmaker, a medical doctor and epidemiologist. Wodarg has referred to the swine flu pandemic as “one of the greatest medical scandals of the century.”

Wodarg has pointed out that the WHO softened the definition of a pandemic from an outbreak in several continents at once with an above-average death rate, to one where the spread of the disease is constant. Just one month after changing the definition, and with just 144 people having died from H1N1, the flu was given the highest threat classification possible, a “stage-six pandemic alert”. By comparison, the mildest 20th Century pandemic killed a million people.
“I have never heard such a worldwide echo to a health political action,” Wodarg, an epidemiologist who formerly led the health committee for the Council of Europe, said at Tuesday’s hearing.

“It was stated in panic- stricken terms that this was a flu that could threaten humanity and a great number of humans could fall ill. This is why billions of dollars of medications were bought.” Wodarg said. He added that the the change in definition “made it possible for the pharmaceutical industry to transform this opportunity into cash, under contracts which were mainly secret.”
 

solarman350

(136 posts)
10. Live/Streaming Radiation Measurements at ustream.com--Here are some links-Japan, USA
Wed May 23, 2012, 04:16 PM
May 2012

Thought that you might want to see what's happening as far as radiation measurements go there in Japan. Here are some sites to monitor:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/hino-tokyo-geiger-counter-feed

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/seikouin

U.S.:

Boulder City/Las Vegas, Nevada
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-radiation-monitor---boulder-city-nv-las-vegas

Seattle, Washington
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-geiger-counter-in-seattle

Redlands (Southern California), California
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger-counter-redlands-ca

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Most radiation doses from...