China unveils two-child policy
Source: CNN
It's official. From January 1, 2016 China will allow two children for every couple.
Chinese lawmakers rubber-stamped the new legislation Sunday during a session of the National People's Congress Standing Committee, which governs the country's laws, the state-run Xinhua news agency reported.
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Human rights group Amnesty International issued a statement warning that the change in policy was "not enough."
"Couples that have two children could still be subjected to coercive and intrusive forms of contraception, and even forced abortions -- which amount to torture," China researcher William Nee said.
"The state has no business regulating how many children people have," he said.
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Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/27/asia/china-two-child-policy/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
Sunlei
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jwirr
(39,215 posts)child policy discussion? I am a bit tired after Xmas but am not seeing it.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)in wuxi.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)I wasn't in the city, but out in the countryside.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)trillion
(1,859 posts)oh never mind. It looks like embryos are still the preferred method.
JonathanRackham
(1,604 posts)So much for respecting a woman's right to choose.
still_one
(92,325 posts)and they keep trying until a boy is produced.
As for the world outrage, the United States has slowly be taking away a woman's right to choose, and that along with women's rights, so countries in glass houses shouldn't throw too many stones.
Just look at how a great many of the American populous does not have any desire to help Middle Eastern and South American refugees.
It wasn't that long ago during the bush administration when:
"A senior United Nations official has accused President George Bush of "doing damage to Africa" by cutting funding for condoms, a move which may jeopardise the successful fight against HIV/Aids in Uganda.
Stephen Lewis, the UN secretary general's special envoy for HIV/Aids in Africa, said US cuts in funding for condoms and an emphasis on promoting abstinence had contributed to a shortage of condoms in Uganda, one of the few African countries which has succeeded in reducing its infection "
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/aug/30/usa.aids
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)No right to choose.
An abortion costs 8000RMB in most hospitals.
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)Planet turd.
daleo
(21,317 posts)Modern capitalism is failing in the social reproduction function, the most elemental function any system has to succeed in, in order to survive. Capitalists don't want to support investments necessary for child rearing, and the integration of young adults into adult life.
In the past, the lack of birth control technology and knowledge assured that their would be adequate supplies of new generations of workers. That's no longer true, so birth rates have fallen below replacement in most advanced capitalist states. The capitalist classes are attempting to make up for this via immigration, but as capitalism goes global, there are fewer and fewer regions with high birth rates, and these sources are less culturally and educationally congruent with advanced capitalism.
I see this as capitalism's most dire existential threat, though it will takes decades, even centuries to fully play itself out. China's recent history is a good example of this dynamic.
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)I'd be totally in favour of it. We need to get the planet heading back below 10% or so of current human activity levels. But I don't think capitalism has the chops to do that. Or the global-scale conscience.
daleo
(21,317 posts)Granted, the Earth's human population need not be in the billion plus range to ensure that the species survives. But, when an optimum level is reached, the social system would have to re-establish replacement birthrates. In an advanced technological society, that probably means some form of socialism, though possibly mixed with small scale capitalism. I can't see any other viable way for humanity in the far future. Free-booting global capitalism is just too erratic in the long run.
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)My research has convinced me that the maximum "truly sustainable" level of human activity is between 10 to 50 million people, living at average consumption levels no higher than a moderately affluent hunter-gatherer.
Here's the article in which I outlined the basis for my views a couple of years ago:
http://www.paulchefurka.ca/Sustainability.html
jwirr
(39,215 posts)that without giving the people a reason they understand. And let's face it most people on this planet do not understand what is happening due to overpopulation.
I also think the fact that they are not replacing themselves has a lot to do with the fact that under the 1 child policy they were aborting girls (future mothers) so they could have a boy baby. They made this problem themselves.
daleo
(21,317 posts)That would be about 1.5 to 2.0 children per woman, with a typical figure around 1.75. So, China is not unique in terms of a birth rate below replacement.
There has been sex selection in favour of males, which has exacerbated the problem as you indicate. That's not the case in the west, so they are unique that way. They are also different, in terms of having a very limited immigration level.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)aspect but it seems to me that they do not take many in but many do not leave either. Am I correct?
daleo
(21,317 posts)Much of the time it is grad students, applying for permanent residency, then citizenship. In Canada, China is a pretty significant source country for foreign students and immigrants.
I don't know the numbers, as far as immigration to China is concerned, but I think it is not very significant.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)(teachers, businessmen, scientists, doctors). China has massive brain drain as the best and the brightest leave and don't come back.
Z visas are not hard to get, as are F visas. D visas are nearly impossible.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)and join the party. Being the slight antagonist I am, I told him he'd be better off taking his skills and leaving. He said he wants to be part of the new generation to help change the government. My response was a look that say good luck with that.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)they are all just as corrupt and self interested as the last. Don't let the name fool you. China has a long history of going from one despot to another.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)Call it capitalism, socialism, civilization, or whatever, they all need more people. More young people specifically. At least if we want mass social systems and programs, and the somewhat abnormal abstraction called retirement. Those systems and programs are of course the same ones which help to amplify our contributions to the environmental issues we have to adapt to. As do our technological advances, which we invent as a result of there being so many people, and all the stuff we want.
We can't stop, but we can't continue.
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)Let's go back to pre-emission eras and see how fun a root canal would be.
It's so complicated a subject it's hard t oknow where to begin.
daleo
(21,317 posts)It is just a matter of appropriate planning. Take pensions, for example. Once a population reaches a steady state, pension systems can be devised that are sustainable. Systems that require a constantly increasing population are Ponzi schemes, and that's not a physically or mathematically viable solution.
Capitalism officially rejects anything that smacks of central planning and it has continuous growth as an essential dogma. But any system that abhors planning, on principle, will fail to do the necessary planning to solve existential problems. Similarly, any system that assumes continuous growth as a central dogma will fail eventually, as inputs are finite.
But these are a new problems in human history, so we haven't really come to grips with it. The human race will have to grow up, in the next few hundred years. That will mean discarding capitalism, as we know it. Eventually, survival will demand it.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)be an answer if we want it. Thank you.
daleo
(21,317 posts)They may say we are dreamers...
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)That not even just humanity, but all of life that we've volunteered ourselves to be the stewards of. If it's a finite planet, then everything is give and take. Humans don't do well with limits though. Limits aren't fair, because who has the right to tell who what to do?
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)What becomes of the extra children?
What happens to the parents?
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)The One Child policy had exemptions:
1: People living in the countryside
2: Ethnic minorities
3: Farmers
4: Anyone married to a foreigner
The one-child policy applies to city living Han Chinese (92% of the Chinese population). This will also apply to city living Han Chinese.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)davidpdx
(22,000 posts)The low birth rate compounded by the cost of raising a child is going to decrease the population. I read somewhere that India will actually surpass China as the most populace country at some point. Given how small India is compared to China (1.27 million sq miles to 9.6 million sq miles respectively), how all those people will survive is a scary thought.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)that few have addressed. China is built around large families. It's entire culture depends on having large extended families, and also having to learn to share and work with the large number of siblings you had to live with, rich or poor.
Now, with a lot of these one or two digit families, all of the resources and attention gets poured onto ONE child, who very often is sent to the West in the hope of getting a degree. These kids often have much more sophistication then their previous counterparts, but they are also very aware, and , to be blunt, many of them have BIG EGOS and outright contempt for Chinese culture, a point that is NOT lost on the locals.
http://knowledge.ckgsb.edu.cn/2015/05/05/globalization/homeward-bound-chinese-sea-turtles-return-to-a-new-reality/
http://www.economist.com/news/china/21580470-students-coming-back-home-helped-build-modern-china-so-why-are-they-now-faring-so-poorly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haigui
So, China wants to maintain it's culture, and foster a native culture that is resistant to western influences, despite the fact that they need our economy to survive (which does not work very well for us in the U.S. either.) So, they have to do this. If not, they can see the Russians, who are rich in wealth and power, but whose population has been dropping every year.
Of course, this is a true ecological, financial, and cultural disaster in the making. You think the Mid east will start the war to end all wars, just wait what happens when several hundred million of the PRC's children realize they really have nothing to lose. They can summon up every dead demon, from Maoism to Hyper-Capitalism, in order to get what in all fairness, was stolen from them.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)Of course, overpopulation is a sensitive topic around here.
trillion
(1,859 posts)The whole world needs to invest in education. It's proven that the more education people have the less children they have no matter what country they are in.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)the more stuff they want, and things they do.
It's not population or consumption. It's both. The way we've kept people from having more kids is by increasing their own ability to consume. If you have 1 person consuming the same as 3, 4, or 5 other people, whatever the number would be, having just that 1 person doesn't matter much. Plus, since it's about fairness, all those other people that are alive need to be given the opportunity to increase their own ability to consume. So we'll be carving up the planet for a while longer, since all 7+ billion people aren't hooked into the global system just yet.
There's really no answer to the question. Nobody can ask someone else to sacrifice something for the greater good without being willing to do it themselves, and nobody is really willing to do it themselves. Even i enough people were willing to do that, the economy would crash, as demand creates jobs.
We can't escape.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)Your post is a prime example of how this topic generates emotional responses vs. logical ones around here.
Current population levels are ecologically unsustainable. We need to reduce the population either voluntarily or, eventually, the food chain collapses and we will be reducing the population involuntarily.