University of Texas head begrudgingly OKs campus gun rules

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

University of Texas head begrudgingly OKs campus gun rules

Jim Vertuno, Associated Press

Updated 6:34 pm, Wednesday, February 17, 2016

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Concealed handguns will be allowed in University of Texas classrooms but generally banned from dorms under rules begrudgingly approved Wednesday by the school's president, whose hand was forced by a new state law.

Like many who study or work at the school in liberal Austin, President Greg Fenves opposes allowing guns on the roughly 50,000-student campus. Texas' universities had been gun-free zones under the state's previous concealed handgun laws, but the Republican-dominated Legislature voted last year to force public universities to allow license holders to bring their guns to campus starting Aug. 1.

"I do not believe handguns belong on a university campus, so this decision has been the greatest challenge of my presidency to date," Fenves said in announcing his decision to adopt rules recommended by a campus study group in December.

Gun-rights activists insist the right to have weapons on campus falls under the Second Amendment and they call it a critical self-defense measure.


Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/texas/article/University-of-Texas-president-approves-campus-gun-6836527.php

[valerief]

1. This means more dead students. Guaranteed. nt

[TeddyR]

2. Guaranteed how?

Pretty sure other states have similar laws. Please provide some, any, support for your guarantee.

[hack89]

4. It didn't happen in other states that passed similar laws.

doubt it will happen in Texas.

[GGJohn]

31. If so, then why hasn't it happened at the many other colleges in other states

that allow for concealed carry?

[friendly_iconoclast]

44. A good question which will remain unanswered by the antigun 'Colonists' in this thread

Sergeant Colon had a broad education. He'd been to the school of My Dad Always Said, the College of It Stands to Reason, and was now a postgraduate student at the University of What Some Bloke In the Pub Told Me.

Terry Pratchett, Jingo

[friendly_iconoclast]

50. That question has been asked (and dodged) for at least five years at DU:

What *empirical* evidence do you have that legal CCW weapons at colleges are harmful?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/en.wikipedia.org/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x382537#382537

The hemming, hawing and "but, but, GUNS" to be found in the replies are simultaneously
amusing and depressing...

[rjsquirrel]

3. As a Texan and a Longhorn alum and donor

with high net worth, I wrote Pres. Fenves last month informing him I'd be removing a bequest to my alma mater from my will if this happened.

Time to call my lawyer.

I will have nothing else to do with Texas. Backwards theocrats have destroyed the place. My friends (I'm a scientist) who work at UT are all looking to move elsewhere. The brain drain will be prodigious.

[TeddyR]

7. How do guns on campus

Equal a theocracy? I'm sure the loss of your "high net worth" will be offset by other Texans with even greater "high net worth" who support this move.

[rjsquirrel]

13. Guns on campus

Don't "equal" a theocracy. They're a product of the same backwards mindset.

You don't know how academic institutions raise money. And that's fine, they just won't get any more of mine.

I get it that you're an ideologue with a rebuttal to anyone who disagrees with your cult of violence.

[Calista241]

35. Isn't this a state law that he has to comply with?

And he just came up with a policy to bring them into compliance with the law?

I just don't see how this isn't comparable to the myriad of other laws that UT has to comply with every day.

[rjsquirrel]

14. And now you're on

"Ignore" teddy boy.

[Duckhunter935]

26. a great way to rebut am argument

Put you head in the sand and ignore the outside would. A scientisy, ok, look at the facts. How many 21 year old son that have concealed carry will be included in this and how many gun related crime is been caused by the many other states that allow this. It sounds like you are just paranoid about firearms in my opinion.

[Judi Lynn]

21. Thank you on behalf of human beings. The world needs people who won't look the other way. n/t

[NutmegYankee]

24. It seems you are punishing the wrong party here.

The President of the University didn't have a choice, as he was forced by state law. He had no other viable alternative. The University is a victim of an insane state legislature.

[rjsquirrel]

25. Not at all

He did have a choice. He could have resigned in protest.

The once great UT will cease being a great school as talented faculty leave - I know three scientists there with tenure and research funding looking for other jobs right now. And donors walking away.

When it declines enough this will cause smarter people than the current death cult theocrats in charge that something has to be done.

I'm punishing my home state too. I won't go there for anything but urgent family business anymore. I try not to buy Texas made products. I bad mouth the place as a shithole of violence and racism to anyone who asks me what it's like being from there.

Texas is on its way to pariah status. It's Mexico with shittier food and meaner people.

There will be many deaths. Our local death cult ammosexuals have a lot of funny ways of saying otherwise, but none of them have to teach a room full of halfwitted frat boys carrying guns, at the exact age where schizophrenic symptoms begin to manifest.

I've had a student violently threaten me due to mental illness before. Had he been armed hi might have killed me. And I teach in a civilized sate.

I am also a lifelong devoted hunter. I'm not afraid of guns. I'm afraid of morons with guns. And Texas is full of goddamn morons, many of whom are addicts and alcoholics.

[beevul]

33. "It's Mexico with shittier food and meaner people." Wow.

Not to mention: Mexico has strict gun control.

[sarisataka]

39. Wow indeed

I thought it was the gun nuts that were the rednecks and racists

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a person willing to use homophobic slurs to promote their hate also has other hate issues.

[sarisataka]

40. So is racism in Texas

a matter of nature or nurture?

[houston16revival]

5. It's a toxic mix

Youthful indiscretions, alcohol, illicit drugs, hormones, competition,
Greek life, love affairs, breakups, rivalries, politics ... all are areas of conflict
in college life where violence might break out or be exacerbated by the ready
availability of firearms.

There may be a hero in the right place at the right time someday, but there will
also be young adults with untamed personalities. In my view, mass shootings may
be fewer, but these other types of friction will increase.

[Duckhunter935]

27. you do know you have to be 21

AND HAVE to have a CCL, right?

[houston16revival]

30. And this makes all carriers

absolutely responsible, and in control of their weaponry
100% of the time? No one could wrestle it away from them, or
steal it while they are out to the loo, or in the gym?

[beevul]

34. No more than a drivers license...

No more than a drivers license makes all drivers absolutely responsible, and in control of their 1 ton + projectile
100% of the time. Amazingly, Youthful indiscretions, alcohol, illicit drugs, hormones, competition, and other things effect it too, but I don't hear you complaining.


You just don't like guns.

[houston16revival]

36. There is no room for ambiguity in your mind

Please leave me alone.

You're wrong.

I do like guns, I own several myself.

I just think college and guns are a recipe.

[beevul]

41. Bull.

There is no room for ambiguity in your mind

I just pointed out another kind of ambiguity, quite parallel to the one you posted. You're the one speaking against it, not me, therefore you're the one to which the statement "There is no room for ambiguity in your mind" applies.

Please leave me alone.

An expectation to be 'left alone' while involved in a political discussion on a political discussion board is unrealistic, and unreasonable.

I do like guns, I own several myself.

So what.

I just think college and guns are a recipe.

A recipe for what? And why isn't whatever "what" is, happening at colleges where this has been allowed for quite some time?

[Paladin]

6. And please note the 8-1-2016 effective date of this guns-on-campus ruling.

That's the 50th anniversary of Charles Whitman's mass slaughter on the University of Texas campus. Don't think for one moment that the timing is coincidental. Fuck all of you gun-addled Texas republicans, and more power to the UT faculty and administration who keep fighting against this idiocy.

[Judi Lynn]

22. Thanks for pointing out the significance of the effective date. It's important. n/t

[Duckhunter935]

28. you also remember it was civilians

With weapons that assisted in taking that man down that had a bolt action rifle.

[TeddyR]

8. Does anyone that opposes this change

Actually understand it? A lot of other states have a similar law and haven't suffered a sudden outbreak of violence. And this doesn't mean every person on campus gets to carry a gun, just those who qualify for a CC license, which means students 21 and over, which means seniors.

[6000eliot]

16. I'm a college teacher and I don't want any fucking guns in my classroom.

How difficult is that for you to understand?

[Judi Lynn]

19. Can't imagine the added problems. It will be hell for ordinary students. School's not the place.

The very idea that not only do people have to worry that the isolated school-infesting loon is lurking around intending to murder someone, but also that armed dolts might misperceive situations as "life-threatening" to them and start firing, would make so many start looking for safe, civilized, non-reactionary schools, instead.

[Duckhunter935]

29. how would you know?

[6000eliot]

32. I know they aren't allowed now.

I would not work in a school where they are.

[hack89]

38. What about a student who is carrying illegally?

you know - the dangerous ones you really have to worry about. Don't they concern you at all?

[6000eliot]

51. I'm not going to have this stupid gun-nut non-argument.

[hack89]

52. You are into security theater. I get it

just expect to get called on it.

[6000eliot]

55. Expect to get blocked.

Buh-bye.

[hack89]

56. Enjoy your perfect world. Nt

[friendly_iconoclast]

61. Your loss, not his. Feel free to block me or not as you see fit.

[ananda]

9. I cannot even imagine...

... trying to teach knowing someone in my classroom
might have a gun and be willing to use it. Would I feel
safe enough to express my views knowing that some
crazy rightwinger might shoot me over them.

There are some real crazies out there.

[hack89]

15. Would a law stop a real crazy willing to carry a gun illegally?

people carry guns illegally in public all the time. Truly dangerous people are not stopped by laws.

[Judi Lynn]

20. Thanks for your post. Right-wingers do lack discipline, lack wisdom, lack clarity.

You really don't want to have them sitting next to you with a gun when you are trying to learn what you need to know.

Having armed idiots in the classroom will have a deadening effect on every kind of speech other than lunatic, racist, hatespeech.

[ananda]

46. I know.

This is basically an onslaught on the way higher education works.

I don't blame the good professors for wanting to leave.

[navarth]

10. Another victory for the gun masturbators.

Whoopee.

[Judi Lynn]

11. University of Texas reluctantly to allow guns in classrooms

University of Texas reluctantly to allow guns in classrooms

Reuters
By Jon Herskovitz
1 hour ago

University of Texas reluctantly to allow guns in classroomsAUSTIN, Texas (Reuters) - The University of Texas president approved plans on Wednesday that would allow for licensed concealed handgun holders to bring pistols into classrooms, saying he has been forced to do so under a new law approved by the state's leaders.

On Aug. 1, 2016, a so-called state "campus carry" law goes into effect allowing people 21 and older with a concealed handgun license to carry handguns in classrooms and buildings throughout the University of Texas system, one of the nation's largest with an enrollment of more than 214,000 students.

"I do not believe handguns belong on a university campus, so this decision has been the greatest challenge of my presidency to date," University of Texas President Gregory Fenves said in a statement.

. . .

Governor Greg Abbott, a Republican, has said the law could prevent mass shootings because someone with a licensed concealed weapon could be on campus ready to confront a potential gunman.

More:
http://news.yahoo.com/university-texas-reluctantly-allow-guns-classrooms-002336608.html

[davidthegnome]

12. Hmm.

Not sure what to think on this one. I agree with Fenves in that I don't believe handguns belong in schools period -or on a University campus. On the other hand - my girlfriend is a school teacher in a very rough neighborhood. Having listened to a couple of men who know what they're talking about, anyone who went into that school with a gun, or a few guns, would be pretty much unstoppable, as there are no real security measures in place to prevent or stop mass shootings.

Comes down, again, to that whole good guy with a gun concept... which to me, seems kind of ridiculous. Expecting an untrained civilian (regardless of their personal knowledge of hunting, or time spent at a practice range - it's different from the real thing) to somehow (maybe, possibly) stop another armed civilian with guns loaded, ready to blast away without hesitation.

Much as I dislike the idea, I think that what we need, instead of more guns - are more security measures. Real security measures, like more security guards in schools, metal detectors, we may eventually need to make our school security somewhat more like airports in regards to security. No system is foolproof, but if we're going to be counting on anything to stop more shootings, it should be a well regulated security force - IMO. Not to have good guys with guns - but to prevent guns from getting into classrooms in the first place. Thicker doors with stronger locks, checkpoints, systems for lockdown that are well rehearsed and have at least some minor hope of securing classrooms in the event of a shooter.

I don't think the answer is more guns, but I do think we can step up security measures *dramatically*, as many of the schools I know of have little, or none at all - even in areas where not to have them is almost suicidal.

Unfortunately, I really think it's going to go one way or another. Either people will carry more guns, or we have to do more to ensure their safety through other means. There will likely be shootings in the years to come, but I believe we can greatly reduce them with better security measures.

[Jefferson23]

17. Shit. n/t

[Kang Colby]

18. Save the drama. 21 year old college students have been able to own guns for

hundreds of years. This law changes nothing other than to allow individuals with a government issued permit to carry within certain university spaces.

Schools are usually ***gun free zones***, how well has that worked out?

This law will not impact crime one way or the other. Any nut intent on doing harm with a gun isn't going to worry about firearm related rules and regulations.

[Skittles]

23. gun humping cowards have won

the solution to everything is more guns and more paranoia

[friendly_iconoclast]

43. Oh, there's certainly paranoia- and it's coming from the firearms-averse

[Paladin]

48. The pro-gun militancy movement has been fueled by raw paranoia for decades.

I remember DU gun enthusiasts' reaction to the Heller decision---Scalia's wish-fulfillment gift to the NRA. You people got maybe two days of gleeful, strutting pleasure out of it, and then the paranoia of being one SCOTUS justice short of total disaster in the future set in, and it was back to the usual wailing and gnashing of teeth. Of the two sides of the gun argument, yours is the one that has raised paranoia to malignant perfection.

[friendly_iconoclast]

49. There has been an evidence-free moral panic about the subject of the OP *for years*

Here's an OP I posted five years ago, and the disinterested reader will note that not
one poster came up with an example of a CCW holder shooting up a campus:

What *empirical* evidence do you have that legal CCW weapons at colleges are harmful?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/en.wikipedia.org/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x382537#382537

And yet, you lot still insist that Something Bad Will Happen Any Day Now.

Since that was posted the number of guns in the US climbed dramatically , gun laws got
more liberal- and violent crime rates dropped.

Remind us again who's paranoid?

[Paladin]

53. I was in Austin on 8-1-1966. I had friends who lost family to Charles Whitman.

Take your talk of "evidence-free moral panic" and shove it.

[Duckhunter935]

54. you forget about the civilians with weapons that help

Take him down. By the way it was a bolt action rifle, how does that even fit with legal carry of licensed firearms owners that is is about?

[pablo_marmol]

59. "By the way, it was a bolt-action rifle........"

I'm sure we'll get a thoughtful, cogent response to this question any time now.

Tick, tock.....tick, tock.....tick, tock.....tick, tock.....tick, tock.....

[friendly_iconoclast]

63. Factose intolerance is part and parcel of modern gun control advocacy

Nothing much has changed in the five years since I first asked the question.

[pablo_marmol]

57. What additional law would have prevented Whitman from killing all of those people?

Take your childish poutrage and shove it.

[friendly_iconoclast]

62. I predicted obfuscating replies like yours *years* ago. From the link that you didn't read:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/en.wikipedia.org/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x382537#382537

P.S.: I'm going to set the over/under on the first appearance of an account of illegal gun carriage/use passed off as legal carriage/use at the twentieth post.

The pearl claspers seem to be fond of faith-promoting rumor, and I expect an account of a 'legal' gun owner (who actually wasn't) doing something stupid and/or criminal to appear in short order.

[november3rd]

37. MoFo

That dude should resign rather than implement that law.

How will he be able to live with his conscience after this?

[branford]

45. What would his resignation accomplish?

It would not change the law, and it would be quite easy to find someone to replace him.

Moreover, the law currently allows some discretion on where to permit guns on campus. If you've followed the story, you know that the president of the university tried to implement the law too allow for the minimum area of the campus to allow guns and still be compliant with the statute. If the president resigned, it's quite probable his replacement would be chosen to ensure even more areas of the campus allowed firearms. Similarly, such a political act could also backfire spectacularly, and the legislature could decide to simply mandate that guns be allowed in all locations on campus.

If you do not favor guns on campus, the president of the university should be lauded as an ally who's actually balancing his beliefs about campus safety with complying with the duly passed law.

Moreover, the only students that will be permitted to carry firearms are those who are already 21 and possess a CCL. This very small sliver of the student body hardly presents a true demonstrable threat, particularly since many other universities already allow guns on campus and they are not running red with blood, no less from this demographic group.

[ManiacJoe]

42. Do people really fear an armed staff and faculty?

Concealed carry on campus is not about the students. The only regular students eligible to carry are the older half of the senior class since you have to be 21 to have a concealed carry license.

[friendly_iconoclast]

47. There's a history of moral panic-mongering about the subject at DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024579056

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172135441

There are probably more discussions to be found, but these were the first two I
could find.

The disinterested reader will note that the gun-averse have (AFAICT) yet to come
up with an example of a permit holder shooting up a campus.

This after a 10+ year history of CCW being legal in public universities in Utah,
Washington State, and Colorado...

[pablo_marmol]

58. Foaming, irrational poutrage collides with the facts -- and the facts triumph.

http://concealedcampus.org/common-arguments/

But what the hell..........let's just keep giving aid and comfort to the GOP, shall we?