Zika virus: Pregnant women 'begging online for abortion pills'

[brooklynite]

Source: The Independent

Zika virus: Pregnant women 'begging online for abortion pills' in countries where terminations are illegal

The emails arrive at an accelerating pace. Once sporadic, they now come in an incessant stream of 40, 45 or 50 per day.

...snip...

All of them express the same sentiment, the same fear, the same desperate plea.

“Help!” one email begins. “Zika in Venezuela. I need abortion!”

The emails are from mothers in Latin America who are scared of giving birth to children with microcephaly, the mysterious condition marked by an undersized head and brain damage that doctors have linked to the mosquito-born Zika virus.

Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/zika-virus-pregnant-women-begging-online-for-abortion-pills-in-countries-where-terminations-are-a6880896.html

[Lorien]

1. We should find a way to ship them plan B pills since their conservative governments

won't help. There also used to be herbal concoctions that women used. That information has to still exist somewhere!

[snooper2]

2. you meant to say fundie governments

[FrodosPet]

3. I thought Venezuela was a progressive paradise?

Why is abortion still illegal there?

[snooper2]

4. well, Maduro is a different kind of fundie

[joshcryer]

42. Religion. Abortion is illegal in most of Latin America.

Cuba is the one exception.

[Lorien]

5. Same thing.

[valerief]

6. I'm sure there are Christians lining up en masse to care for these malformed babies.

Droves of them. So many you trip over them everywhere you step. Just like in the U.S.

I know for a fact that that Mike Huckabee has adopted over 10,000 unwanted babies. Ted Cruz has 6,000 (but they're all Canadian). All the pols who know what's best for women have opened their doors and wallets to millions of unwanted babies. After all, they care. They tell us they do, so it must be true.

[blackspade]

7. Fuck, this is horrible.

This is what you get when you mix religion with reality.

[B2G]

8. How will this help?

Given the pills need to be taken within 72 hours of intercourse?

They wouldn't even know they're pregnant at that point...

[TexasBushwhacker]

25. Plan B has to be taken early

Some abortafacient drugs are effective up to 60 days gestation.

[B2G]

28. Really? I didn't know that.

I thought they all had to be taken very soon after initial conception.

[TexasBushwhacker]

34. Plan B is one step and uses a drug similar

to birth control pills, just at a higher dose. Other abortofacients, that can be taken after implantation, are usually 2 drugs taken a few days apart. A doctor's care is critical because they have to make sure no remnants of the embryo are left behind. Most early abortions are done this way.

[NickB79]

35. Plan B is not an abortion pill; that term is used for a different set of drugs

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/abortion/the-abortion-pill

"Abortion pill" is the popular name for using 2 medicines to end a pregnancy – mifepristone and misoprostol. In general, it's used up to 63 days — 9 weeks — after the first day of a woman's last period. (A few states have laws that limit the use of the abortion pill to 49 days.) Women who need an abortion and are more than 9 weeks pregnant can have an in-clinic abortion.

[REP]

49. Mifepristone (RU486) and Misoprostol (Cytotec) are not Plan B

Cytotec is often used alone to induce an abortion by women in countries without access to legal abortion; in other countries, Mifepristone and cyctotec are used in combination to terminate an early pregnancy. Plan B prevents implantation of a fertilized egg; it does not terminate pregnancy as no pregnancy occurs until the fertilized egg implants in the endometrium.

[houston16revival]

9. Just imagine

if this really gets rolling and some high percentage of babies are
born with this affliction.

Is any society, country, family prepared to care for a significant
part of the population for decades and decades?

Who's going to pay for it?

The Republicans? They will disappear when costs are involved.

[Hestia]

32. It took a Measles outbreak in the US before abortion became palatable, people saw the

children who were born with severe birth defects. Though this is the last thing to think about, but maybe all children who are born with microcephaly (?) just may do this in Latin America also.

Though now, there are doctors who are reporting it is a mosquitocide that is responsible and not the Zika. Correlation may not equal causation in this case. Lots of research to do...

[REP]

50. People with this condition generally do not live for "decades and decades"

There are exceptions, but most die at birth or within the first years of life. There will be a generation missing.

[B2G]

11. It hasn't been linked to the virus yet

I believe they are also looking into a pesticide that was put into use in Brazil around 2012 in the area where the birth defects are the most prevalent.

Venzuela will be important to establish any link.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/brazil-state-bans-pesticide-after-zika-claim-1455584596

[Sienna86]

14. Is possible pesticide link is important to follow

Thanks for bringing it up.

[dembotoz]

15. understant this link has been discreditied

the larvacide is not responsible

[B2G]

16. Do you have a link to that? nt

[Orrex]

20. Link

https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/expert-reaction-is-a-pesticide-not-zika-virus-causing-microcephaly

[dembotoz]

36. thank you orrex for getting the link faster than i could

[Orrex]

38. N/P I happened to see it in another thread earlier today (nt)

[trillion]

46. I wouldn't trust it. I've seen this too much when it was pesticides.

Finally it end up in court, the pesticide company loses and nobody notices by then because the press doesn't cover the old new and all they remember is all those studies (founded by the pharma industry) that say it wasn't them.

[Orrex]

47. Links, please

I'd like to read about such cases.

[trillion]

51. hahahahahahaha

The entire Honey Bee mass extinction.

but it's come up so many times with gmos and pesticides that I'm not buying you haven't ran into this over and over yet.

[Orrex]

52. What do honeybees have to do with human microcephaly?

It's clear that you aren't interested in solving the problem, only in condemning pesticides.

That kind of closed-mindedness and selective reasoning is not consistent with a rational approach. It's simply contrarian.

[trillion]

53. I think you are missing the point.

This is WHAT the pesticide industry does. Hire "experts" with good names to say it can't be them.

The correct thing to do is 1. vet the scientists - see if they've been debunked in the past for being sold out and look at their other studies, and 2. google zika pesticide, and see who's saying that it is connected to Zika.

And it is looking like how the honey bee issue started. Wow. Monsanto in the middle claiming it's not really their pesticide and plenty of "experts" debunking any connection and suggesting it may be a whole range of issues causing zitka(how colony collapse disorder is that!) I think I will tepidly wait longer and go do some searches myself - ie what pesticide and what it's side effects are, when I get some time.

[Orrex]

54. That's an ad hominem attack, a falacy

If you suspect the methods or the result, then attack these. You can't simply declare the results invalid because you suspect wrongdoing.

[trillion]

55. Yeah, you're still missing the point.

You asked for an example, I gave you Colony Collapse disorder - the Bee die off.

If you want to believe everything the pesticide industry tells you, knock yourself out.

I'm suggesting vetting. I guess that doesn't suit you. At that point, who's integrity do we have in question... uh yours.

Good luck.

[Orrex]

56. And now you attack me. Typical.

You flatter yourself to imagine that, because I disagree with your silly claims, I somehow fail to understand them. You must think I'm the biggest idiot of the planet, if you believe that I don't understand that you're posting garbage.

I do not "want to believe everything the pesticide industry tells" me. That's a straw man, a red herring, and a personal attack. You demonstrate thereby that you have no grasp of the subject, that you don't know how to formulate an argument, and that on some level you know it.

I've seen your petty, simplistic type before, and it's as unimpressive now as it is in every other case. Say hi to Jenny McCarthy the next time you attend one of her rallies.


And, for the record, I am indeed mocking you. Since you have mocked me, you have demonstrated that you find this to be an acceptable form of discourse, so out of respect for your view I am responding in kind.

[trillion]

57. Welcome to my ignore list.

You've earned it.

[Orrex]

58. An anti-science luddite has put me on Ignore? However shall I survive?

[perdita9]

22. Epidemiologists have not made a definite link between Zika and birth defects

There's just a lot of correlation with it so they're playing safer than sorry.

When they get more research in, they'll inform the public accordingly.

[B2G]

23. Agree. Columbia is interesting though

They've had 5,000 cases in pregnant women with no significant increase in defects.

[Mojorabbit]

26. Some new research which looks like evidence it is

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2016/02/11/there-is-no-longer-doubt-zika-causes-microencephaly/#4c23353220e6
But a case report in the New England Journal of Medicine and a four-case series in the CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report appear to offer that confirmation with the Zika virus found in the brains of five newborns or fetuses whose mothers had been infected during pregnancy. In addition to the previous evidence of Zika virus present in two cases of amniotic fluid and the virus found in the blood and tissue of a newborn with microcephaly who died almost immediately, these findings show that the virus is vertically transmitted –from the mother to the infant – and that it migrates to the brain.

“I am personally convinced by this study that Zika is vertically transmitted and infects the brains of infants, who then are born with microencephaly,” said Saul Hymes, MD, an assistant professor of clinical pediatrics in the Division of Pediatric Infectious Disease at Stony Brook Children’s Hospital in New York. “That seems like a solid link to me.”

[Mojorabbit]

12. Here is a history of the virus from the WHO

http://www.who.int/emergencies/zika-virus/timeline/en/
It was ID'd in Africa I believe in the 40's. They are thinking it has mutated.

[davidthegnome]

18. Thank you

And thank you, B2G, for the links.

[B2G]

19. YW

Until they positively link it to the virus, they can't rule anything out.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

13. The origin of zika? it's been a known virus for 60+ years

As long as it stayed in Africa, nobody gave it much thought. Compared to other diseases in Africa, like Malaria, its impact is statistically low. Plus, it affected only, well, Africans.

Now that it has spread to the Americas, it's suddenly a big deal, worthy of a search for vaccines and cures.

Conservative asshats, indeed.

[davidthegnome]

17. From what I've been reading...

The documented cases were very few and sporadic until recently - and the disease was thought to be relatively harmless, like a cold or minor illness.

Now that it's becoming known that there are far more dangerous effects of this virus, I suspect that's why it's getting such international attention.

From what I'm reading of the origins of the Zika virus, it seems my suspicions of conspiracy were unfounded, for some reason I often suspect conspiracy these days. Maybe I'm spending too much time reading.

[Blue_Tires]

24. It's also getting more attention

Because of the millions who visit Brasil annually, and the hundreds of thousands of people who are going to the Olympics... A few athletes have already said that they are not coming if this isn't straightened out...

[Hekate]

31. Here's a fact: Global warming is spreading tropical diseases into virgin populations w/no immunity

That is certainly one reason for the fear of a true pandemic. AFAIK, we don't know if an adult who gets Zika is then immune.

Diseases that don't kill you can still often leave you immune. That's the case with Rubella, which causes babies to miscarry or be born blind and/or deaf, but is mild to the "already born." It is spread person to person. Once you get it, you are immune.

Malaria, otoh, causes lifelong debilitation as it is serious, sometimes fatal when you get it and then the rest of your life you are in danger of relapsing. It's another mosquito-borne disease.

Two other person to person diseases that confer immunity:
Smallpox, also serious, causes lifelong immunity if you survive. Virgin populations historically have seen an enormous death rate. (see history of Native Americans) That is also the case with measles, which we think of as a "childhood illness." It is actually serious, and in virgin populations causes high death rate. (see history of Native Hawai'ians) If you live, though, you are immune.

I don't know about Zika, and apparently the CDC and WHO are still scrambling for answers.

As long as it was confined to certain tropical areas, the damage was contained to those regions. It's not that it's not important; it is. But research funds are not infinite and they get directed to things of importance in the areas where the research is being done.

Research also needs political stability and safety to occur. Here's a timeline, as best WHO can work it out.
http://www.who.int/emergencies/zika-virus/timeline/en/#

The timeline starts in 1947 in Uganda. In 1954 it was in Nigeria. Any clues as to the political scene in those regions during the last half of the 20th century?

Here's two very recent instances of what happens to medicine in politically unstable areas: Doctors without Borders can scarcely get a tent up. And polio vaccinators in Pakistan have been murdered because of rumors the polio vaccine causes AIDS.

We've known about global warming and the spread of disease from the tropics for some time now -- it's all part of the package. Political instability is also part of that package, as if we didn't have enough of it already. Look at the desertification of Syria -- farmers have been driven off their land into the cities, there's a brutal dictator, now there's a mass migration of desperate people out of the country.

Well, that's enough depressing information for one morning. Do with it what you will.

[Xithras]

37. As a "smarmy elitist" who wants mandatory population control...

...let me just say that this isn't a method that ANY ZPG advocate would support or endorse. The goal of ZPG and NPG is to reduce the overall human birthrate and reduce the number of people on the planet. Interfering with fetal development to create countless malformed and disabled human beings doesn't accomplish that goal. This isn't anyones "wet dream".

[Xithras]

45. FYI

NPG doesn't mean "no population growth". It means "negative population growth", i.e. population reduction.

As for the rest of your comment, if you really want to know...

Most ZPG activists simply support economic penalties for having more children. In other words, something like: You get two free, but you'll pay a progressive, non-deductible, non-waivable penalty tax for every child after that. You CAN have as many children as you want, but you'll pay a yearly fine for the rest of your life for the additional social and environmental burden those children are imposing on the planet. And not a small one either. Like $5000 a year for kid #3, $10,000 a year for kid #4, $15,000 a year for kid #5, etc. Want five kids? Go ahead and have them...but you'll be paying $30,000 a year in combined penalties. 100% of the collected taxes would be spent to fund family planning services and environmental remediation programs.

Those who have NO children would get tax bonuses starting at age 23. 10% refundable tax credit for 0 kids, 5% tax credit for 1 kid, etc.

This creates an economic incentive to avoid having children, or to minimize the number of children that you have. It also creates a permanent funding stream for projects designed to reduce the impact of human overpopulation on our planet.

I'm just curious about who exactly it was, that gave you and your ilk the right to determine what amount of population is "too much", how many children people should be permitted to have, or even whether they should be permitted to have children.... I'd rather die through the effects of climate change, disease, or even war

What gives you and your ilk the right to make the rest of us suffer through war, disease and climate change simply to preserve the "right" to excessively reproduce? Your human rights end the moment that exercising them destroys the lives of others. Human overpopulation is the root cause of nearly every environmental problem on the planet, and is putting the future of the entire human race in jeopardy.

[perdita9]

21. Curse the Catholic Church and their stupid dogma

People should make these decisions for themselves. They shouldn't have to watch a child suffer and die just because of some power hungry men half a world away.

[PDJane]

27. Would someone please tell me what difference the source makes....

Whether Zika virus, GM mosquitoes, or water source additions. Whatever the source, I wouldn't want to bear a child until the source is found and mitigation procedures are in place.

[B2G]

29. It makes as huge difference if you want to stop it. nt

[PDJane]

33. But it makes little or no difference to the women who are pregnant.

If they are in the area of contamination, which contaminant is a moot point.

[mgmaggiemg]

41. agree and

i also like your quote

[Politicub]

30. We should use our army of drones to drop plan b

So the women can make the decision for themselves.

[Dawson Leery]

39. The Evil Church, cult of death, strikes again!

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/18/michigan-catholic-hospital-women-miscarriage-abortion-mercy-health-partners

[mgmaggiemg]

40. I don't think we should give money

towards it unless it includes birth control and abortion access

[Liberty Belle]

44. So much misinformation; most of those countries have had NO microcephaly.

Microcephaly from Zika has only happened in Brazil or women who traveled from there, as far as I know.

There have been thousands of cases of Zika in Columbia, for instance, and no microcephaly so far, nor in Venezuela or other places that do have Zika. Why is that?

There is a theory that mosquito larvicide in water in Brazil might have caused the microcephaly there, or perhaps there's a strain of mutated Zika in that area.

I'm pro-choice, but don't want to see women frightened unnecessarily into abortion in countries where there have been no cases of microcephaly.

[Shandris]

48. It's a good thing that no mosquito-obsessed individuals have foundations in that part of the world.

Especially those conducting research on mosquitos and...diseases.... And especially one that had recently released experimental mosquitos along with the Brazilian government.

That might make crazy people start to think of laboratory accidents or worse, CT's!

Oh, wait...

Anyways, I think I'll wander on my way now.