Pope suggests Trump 'is not Christian'

[brooklynite]

Source: CNN

(CNN)Thrusting himself into the combative 2016 presidential campaign, Pope Francis said Thursday that GOP frontrunner Donald Trump "is not Christian" if he calls for the deportation of undocumented immigrants and pledges to build a wall between the United States and Mexico.

The Pope, who was traveling back to Rome from Mexico, where he urged the United States to address the "humanitarian crisis" on its southern border, declined to say whether American Catholics should vote for Trump.

But Francis left little doubt where he stood on the polarizing issue of immigration reform.


"A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian. This is not in the gospel," the Pope told journalists.



Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/18/politics/pope-francis-trump-christian-wall/index.html

---

Can't wait to here the response to THIS ONE...

[farleftlib]

1. Thanks, brooklynite

Can you post a link please?

[brooklynite]

3. Done...doing this off my phone

[farleftlib]

13. Thanks

much obliged.

[livetohike]

2. Guess the Pope will have a lawsuit filed against him now. n/t

[Beacool]

32. LOL!!

[roguevalley]

54. no one is if they don't practice Matthew 25:31-44

Go, Pope!

[randys1]

53. ...

[L. Coyote]

83. The Holier than Thou litigation?

[brooklynite]

4. ...and how are Cruz and Rubio going to respond?

[d_r]

5. trumps gonna sue the pope nt

[former9thward]

6. I wonder if he is going to tear down the wall around the Vatican...

[LittleGirl]

11. all those crown jewels

need to be protected with that wall...it's a magnificent place. I respect it even as a former Catholic, for those reasons.

There is a lot of history in those walls and if they were destroyed...mankind would lose more than what those walls protect. (I say this after ISIS has destroyed ancient buildings in the middle east within the past years which is what I mean about history being preserved).

But you can't compare the Vatican with the wall between the US and Mexico. That wall needs to come down indeed. History on that subject is on our side. Even if they (GOP) don't believe it now, we don't need to build a bigger wall, we need to tear down what is already there! Free movement.

Berliners might agree with me.

[former9thward]

15. You are making a libertarian argument.

I am not a libertarian. Libertarians say there should be no borders. If you are a person that believes in one-world government that is fine. I'm not one of them.

[LittleGirl]

21. I tend

to have some libertarian views but they are based on trust of humans more than fear. The GOP is nothing but fear and control. I can't live that way.

I believe in peace, policing, punishment (jail, not death) and communicating and maybe even with the enemy.
Who are those enemies anyway besides terrorists which are not normal people and probably just desperate to be alive themselves?

Damn, we're all the human race so if that makes me a pacifist, so be it.
I'm a damn hippy, what can I say. Peace.

[Democat]

12. Probably not

That makes it funnier.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

58. You are aware that.....

...the Vatican--while technically it's own sovereign ground--is nothing more than the administrative headquarters for a major world leader, correct?

So trying to compare a 1,933 mile border with a 109 acre administrative complex really doesn't compute much, agree?

By that logic, you could also say that President Obama couldn't criticize Trump's position because there's an armed fence around the White House.

[former9thward]

64. Its not technical.

It is its own sovereign ground. How many refugees is the Vatican taking in? You will find they took in one family. One. Do you support the libertarian open border argument?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

67. It's an administrative complex smaller than the US Capitol grounds.

It's sovereign territory for the purpose of being considered neutral amongst international governments, but that's about it.

You can't compare it to a country along the lines of US or Mexico. Stop making the Trump argument.

[former9thward]

69. Stop making the libertarian open borders argument.

A question which I noticed you did not answer.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

71. I didn't answer it because you're not making any sense....

....trying to compare an administrative complex the size of a city park whose sovereignty is based solely on the grounds of international neutrality with fully fledged countries.

It's a non-starter. Appels + Oranjes.

[mobeau69]

72. Fail

Don't be so silly. This wall wasn't built by Pope Francis. It's an artifact from Medieval times. The Vatican and St. Peters are always open to visitors. You should think before you post. It can be a poor reflection on your parents, your upbringing and your education.

[former9thward]

75. He could tear down the wall.

And is he denouncing the Popes who built it as not be Christians? Nope. You defend this hypocrisy. However I won't blame your parents or upbringing for that. Its all on you.

[yellowcanine]

7. Heh. I will get this round of popcorn.

[pennylane100]

8. OMG

The pope has joined the "Shit Show" also known as the GOP campaign.

[LittleGirl]

14. Why would the pope care?

He's the Pope. He's been to the US and Mexico and Cuba in the past few months. He saw it all. He sees the political b.s. happening in this country and wants people to think for themselves and not be conned by Trump or the G.o.p. (gawd awful party).

[pennylane100]

56. Well I definitely agree about the pope wanting people to think for themselves.

However, the way his statement read, Christianity alone allows people to attain this status and there are so many things wrong with that. Does he really believe that Christianity makes people kinder or more caring. That would be a definite NO.

Christians helped bring on the bank crisis and nearly bankrupt our country. Christians started a war in the Middle East that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian. Christians are busy creating a permanent underclass in the US while they are busy lining there own pockets and Christians can be as cruel and uncaring as any other religion.

This is a man who runs a religion that refuses to hold pedophiles responsible, he refuses to recognize that women should be allowed to control their own bodies and is adamant about denying women leadership roles in his religion. Why would anyone want to join such a controlling autocratic church.

[LittleGirl]

62. many reason that you have mentioned are

why I no longer follow it, but you have to admit that he is trying. He even mentioned birth control over the zika virus and that's huge too.

I left the church moons ago but I happen to like this pope. He's not perfect but he's working on making it better for his followers.
edit word

[pennylane100]

100. Yes, that is a very good question.

Why do Catholic leaders care so much about the political repercussions of our laws that would affect them and yet they have for so many, many years, not only ignored the crimes committed by members of their clergy, they have also actively tried to deny the thousands of victims who are seeking justice for all the crimes committed by the pedophile priests.

It is very hard to take them seriously until they come to terms with all the atrocities committed and compensation for all the victims. They will also have to face the gender issue that is turning so many women away. How can we (women) support a faith that sees us as second hand members.

[rladdi]

9. Speaking of Trump, did you know that Trump Towers in Chicago received a 70% property tax break.

Trump makes political donations and I guess it really works in Chicago. Trump sued the city saying the taxes were to high and unfair. But of course the home owners received higher taxes. They don't have the TRUMP POWER

[JudyM]

17. This would be a great issue to raise in the debates. Nt

[LittleGirl]

23. +1 n/t

[mobeau69]

10. Ouch! Pope Francis v Trump

Down goes Trump, down goes Trump, down goes Trump!

[yuiyoshida]

16. Betting that Trump will ignore it

unless some reporter brings it up.. I would love to hear his response as well.

[jberryhill]

18. The response practically writes itself....

The Pope has a bigger wall than almost anyone:

[yuiyoshida]

19. Ya think Donald has this in mind???

[Baclava]

45. I know that wall - Monsters!

?itok=femnp9Iu

[Maeve]

44. You lost that bet

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-calls-it-disgraceful-pope-question-his-christianity-n520841

[yuiyoshida]

74. okay...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

61. He's already responded on Facebook.

Talking about "if and when the Vatican is attacked by ISIS" and claiming that the Pope is a pawn of the Mexican government (no, I only wish I was making that up.)

The inevitable Twitter meltdown is undoubtedly forthcoming.

Donald Trump will not ignore personal criticism. It's not in his NPD character to do so.

[JudyM]

20. This is great! Npr is reporting on swaths of religious folks who are ignoring his missteps

Because he's tapping into their bigoted anger. I hope the Pope continues to pursue this. I am so surprised by his entering the ring on this.

Now what will he have to say about Cruz?

[whatthehey]

66. But the largest religious bloc in the US barely accepts the Pope as Christian

Mainline Protestantism in the US is moribund at best. The religious vitality in the country especially on the Rep side comes from evangelicals, large parts of which consider the Pope heretical, and some of which consider him the Antichrist. If Trump criticized Pat Robertson he may get some blowback, but he's hardly likely to lose the Jack Chick crowd by dissing the Pope.

[bulloney]

22. Trump starts publicly calling Pope Francis an idiot in 3...2...1...

[valerief]

24. Yeah, he also says birth control is evil and women shouldn't have abortions.

Priests arguing that children should keep quiet about being raped by priests.
http://www.southpark-online.nl/en/clip/rampant_misconduct/

[RKP5637]

27. As well as down on LGBT. n/t

[valerief]

28. Oh, but of course. LGBT people have a special place of hate in religions. nt

[AllyCat]

25. Hey, he said he "eats the wafer".

What more do you want?

[RKP5637]

26. FFS, Pope. We're looking for a president, not a cleric. n/t

[JudyM]

30. Hey, I'll take it. Trump claims the mantle of religion and that's enough whitewash for a huge chunk

of the bigoted populace. Being flatly discredited on that mantle from the highest living authority may meaningfully dent his support as people are forced to reconsider and weigh it.

[RKP5637]

40. OMG, they'll likely go for Cruz. He's really strange! n/t

[JudyM]

43. Could be. That'd be best for us, for sure.

[RKP5637]

55. Actually, I think so. Cruz IMO would not do well in a GE. OMG, Ben Carson rises to the top!

Jeb should just stop. He's really embarrassing the Bush dynasty, LOL, of course that I do not mind at all. I can't believe he's got the whole family out now campaigning for him.

[Populist_Prole]

29. Ha Hah Ha; this oughtta' be good cognitive dissonance

My father is a raving right winger that gets most of his "news" from Fox and especially Bill O'. Big time Trump bot...BIG TIME. In recent years has re "found" religion and is being a latent "good catholic".

[Beacool]

31. Yes, because when I think of Christians, Trump immediately comes to mind.

I thought that Republicans would wake up and realize that the man is unfit for office, but they seem intent on nominating the bombastic narcissist. Well, it's their funeral........

[Baclava]

33. Trump Strikes Back

Donald J. Trump Response to the Pope

If and when the Vatican is attacked by ISIS, which as everyone knows is ISIS's ultimate trophy, I can promise you that the Pope would have only wished and prayed that Donald Trump would have been President because this would not have happened. ISIS would have been eradicated unlike what is happening now with our all talk, no action politicians.

The Mexican government and its leadership has made many disparaging remarks about me to the Pope, because they want to continue to rip off the United States, both on trade and at the border, and they understand I am totally wise to them. The Pope only heard one side of the story - he didn't see the crime, the drug trafficking and the negative economic impact the current policies have on the United States. He doesn't see how Mexican leadership is outsmarting President Obama and our leadership in every aspect of negotiation.

For a religious leader to question a person's faith is disgraceful. I am proud to be a Christian and as President I will not allow Christianity to be consistently attacked and weakened, unlike what is happening now, with our current President. No leader, especially a religious leader, should have the right to question another man's religion or faith. They are using the Pope as a pawn and they should be ashamed of themselves for doing so, especially when so many lives are involved and when illegal immigration is so rampant.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-r...se-to-the-pope

---------------

His poll numbers rise another 5 pts

[muriel_volestrangler]

35. So he's admitting he won't be president

"when the Vatican is attacked by ISIS ... the Pope would have only wished and prayed that Donald Trump would have been President because this would not have happened"

Loser.

"No leader, especially a religious leader, should have the right to question another man's religion or faith"

Donald Trump's history of suggesting Obama is a Muslim

"He doesn't have a birth certificate. He may have one, but there's something on that, maybe religion, maybe it says he is a Muslim," Trump told Fox News in 2011. "I don't know. Maybe he doesn't want that."
...
In 2012, after Madonna made what she later called an "ironic" remark on stage that Obama was "a black Muslim," Trump tweeted, "Does Madonna know something we all don't about Barack? At a concert she said 'we have a black Muslim in the White House.'"

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/18/politics/trump-obama-muslim-birther/

Hypocrite.

[Baclava]

37. Nuances don't matter - the red meat herd sees he will stand up to anyone

It's his schtick

[brooklynite]

36. Time to pick sides for Bush, Rubio and Cruz...

1. Play for the anti-immigration votes and buttress Donald Trump?

2. Listen to the infallible pope and lose votes?

Sounds like a lose-lose proposition.

[Baclava]

39. "Trump Tells The Pope to Fuck Off!"" - yee-haw!

that's what his crowd sees

[Bernardo de La Paz]

48. "No leader, especially a religious leader, should have the right to question another man's religion"

Anybody who is insecure in their religion does not want to be questioned about it.

... Especially by religious leaders who can make the most probing type of questions.

They are using the Pope as a pawn

When in doubt or when attacked, divert by invoking conspiracy theories, especially with the enigmatic "they".

TheRump thinks he can persuade his followers that Trump can save the Vatican.

[azureblue]

34. Here is what the Pope is basing his opinion on

Matthew 25: 31- 47:

--- " Then he (Jesus) will say to those at his left hand, “You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.” Then they also will answer, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?” Then he will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.” And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.’ "

These fake Christians really hate this part....

Oh, yeah, and that Matthew 19: 24 "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God." thing really chaps their asses.....

[3catwoman3]

79. Right along with the exhortation...

...to pray in private.

[americannightmare]

38. Most people who call themselves Christian...

aren't Christian; there's nothing Christ-like about owning a gun, demonizing the poor and homeless, and falling on your knees at the holy altar of money, which is where Trump resides...They should have to call themselves "Old Testamentarians or some such...

[joanbarnes]

41. Never before have I loved a Pope so much.....

[mahatmakanejeeves]

42. A pontiff in favor of building bridges: what are the odds?

Think about it.

[Oneironaut]

46. Trump is a Christian.

A Christian is anyone who believes in Christ. He might not act like a Christian, but that's coming from a man who lives in a multi-billion dollar house.

[ET Awful]

85. No, a Christian is not someone who believes in Christ, but someone who follows his teachings.

For instance (presumably), the devil believes in Christ, this does not make him a Christian.

[Oneironaut]

86. What determines what makes a Christian, then?

What if Trump follows one of Jesus's teachings? Is he a Christian then? How about two? The truth is, there is no solid standard of who is a Christian and who is not.

You can't say someone isn't a Christian (even if you're the Pope). It's a lazy fallacy by groups that act as if no bad people could exist among their ranks. It's easy to say, "No true Christian would (X)..." - that way you don't have to own that segment of your group.

[ET Awful]

90. None of which is germaine to my post.

What I said is that a Christian is NOT merely someone who believes in Christ, something more must be required. That's like saying someone who believes in Marx is a communist. Merely believing in one or the other does not make one an adherent to their teachings.

As I pointed out, the Devil, who likely would believe in Christ is NOT a Christian.

As to what makes a Christian, that is entirely dependent on who you ask. Considering that I'm not a believer in any deity, I will not post a definition.

However, to state that someone who believes in Christ is a Christian is a fallacy. A Muslim, for example, believes in Christ, but he is believed to have been a prophet, not the son of God.

Until the Council of Nicea in AD 325, the divinity of Christ wasn't fully acknowledged by the "Christian" churches. Does that make those who disagreed with the decision to declare him to be divine were not Christian?

Is it belief in his existence, belief in his divinity, belief that he performed miracles, what makes someone a Christian? I still say that mere belief in Christ does not make one a Christian.

[Oneironaut]

95. Maybe not the mere belief, but my point was that there is no set standard or litmus test.

It's impossible to say someone is "not a Christian" because there is no set standard of who is a Christian vs. who is not a Christian. It's entirely subjective. The Pope's attempt to say Trump is "not a Christian" to distance himself from his nutbaggery is a perfect example of the No True Scotsman fallacy. Someone only needs to claim to be a Christian in order to be a Christian. Even if someone is lying about being a Christian, minus mind-reading, there's no proof that they are not. Religion is based on belief, which is in the mind.

[lark]

47. Pope's right, in this instance.

The Bible says you know Christians by their acts. When they hate everyone who's "other", and think it's OK to attack someone at a rally because they are Muslim or Mexican or whatever the excuse is, that's doing the opposite of what Christians should do. Donald doesn't give a fig about Christianity, he just uses it as a calling card to get evangelicals on his side.

[ErikJ]

49. Most RW Born-agains dont even think the Pope is a REAL Christian anyway. nt

[fun n serious]

50. I think it was way out of line.

Trumps faith is between he and God. Obviously I am not a Trump supporter but Christianity is not a requirement to be POTUS.

[Third Doctor]

51. Trump's supporter aren't real Christians either

event though they love thumping the bible and quoting scripture. Most of them are bigoted, closed minded, selfish and greedy from my experiences with them. Trump and his zombies deserve each other. This would not be a issue if the GOP in general were not puritanical nut jobs to every one outside of a certain circle.

[ProfessorGAC]

52. Cruz Doesn't Act Like One Either

Why did Francis leave him out?

[Akicita]

57. The Pope should back up his words with deeds by tearing down the 40 ft. wall around the Vatican.

Hollywood and political elites should tear down the walls of their gated communities or compounds in a concerted effort to show the world that walls are not the answer and are only meant to separate.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

59. You are aware that.....

...the Vatican--while technically it's own sovereign ground--is nothing more than the administrative headquarters for a major world leader, correct?

So trying to compare a 1,933 mile border with a 109 acre administrative complex really doesn't compute much, agree?

By that logic, you could also say that President Obama couldn't criticize Trump's position because there's an armed fence around the White House.

[Akicita]

68. The Vatican wall needs to come down.

The vast majority of people streaming in would undoubtably have good intentions. If a tiny minority wants to pillage and steal WHO CARES? As long as the vast majority has good intentions.

Same with the gated communities and compounds of the rich and famous. They should be building bridges into their communities instead of building walls to keep people out.

"Ms. Sreisand, Tear down that wall"

[Tommy_Carcetti]

70. Hoo-Kay. nt

[treestar]

97. I doubt there is any mass movement to have the Vatican walls torn down

and every historic reason to want to keep them there.

There is a huge difference between a medieval structure walling in a small area and the ridiculous Trump concept of a Wall for a thousands mile long border.

[Akicita]

98. I believe that the Vatican has historically, and to this day, used the Vatican wall to control who

Last edited Sat Feb 20, 2016, 10:36 PM - Edit history (1)

enters their sovereign territory. How dastardly is that?

[brooklynite]

63. Actually, it's easy to enter the Vatican...just walk into St. Peter's cathedral

...or the Vatican musem.

[MisterP]

91. it's a portico open at all ends ...

[Gary 50]

60. This is a new low for Trump.

He wants to fight with the Pope? That's going to work out well. Please proceed.
If Trump was really a Christian he would have to admit the border problem is caused by grinding poverty, corruption and rampant lethal drug cartel activity in Mexico. If he was really a Christian he would be proposing plans to alleviate the suffering of Mexico's poor. If their lives were tolerable where they are they wouldn't come here. But compassion is not his thing. Hate and fear is.

[intrepidity]

65. THAT'S the reason he gives??

Also, most evangelicals don't really care what the Pope thinks or says, and they (evangelicals) contrary to the RCC anyway.

[24601]

73. He wasn't talking about Trump because he was addressing "a person who cares ONLY about building

walls...." [my capitalization emphasis].

But that's clearly not Trump since he believes also in torture, not just about building walls. I just don't know how CNN missed this difference....

[ozone_man]

76. Don't laugh, or you might wind up with Cruz.

The Pope can't argue that he's not a Christian, but do we really want one?

[Vogon_Glory]

77. Is Right-Wing Catholic Bill Donohue Going To weigh in On This

Is right-wing Catholic Bill Donohue, senior honcho at the Catholic Defense League, going to weigh in on attacks on the Pope, or is he going to take a very convenient powder?

[L. Coyote]

78. CNN's characterization is not very Christian! Just sayin'

Didn't his Holines suggest that building a wall between peoples is not very Christian.
Trump isn't trying to be Jesus, for Christ's sake (pun fully intended), so why is he turning this into his circus? Oh yeah, never mind ....

[3catwoman3]

80. Donald is full of something, but it sure ain't...

...the Holy Spirit.

More like FOS.

[L. Coyote]

82. But, but, Trump can build bigger, better walls, a Great Wall of America, a future tourist attraction

with his own money around his own mansion so his Pope envy is alleviated. What Trump needs now is a better wall than the Vatican has, and he can buld it while complaining about losing the nomination.

[Helen Borg]

84. Nice exchange between clowns.

[Nitram]

87. I believe that's the way Americans hear it.

But I believe the Pope aimed his message at every nation that has a border across which refugees want to cross. It's not always about us. And we started building a wall a long time before Trump came along. European nations are putting up fences, too.

[Angry Dragon]

88. I think it is time to fill up the Vatican with refugees

let the Pope put his house where his mouth is

[japple]

89. This says it all...

[Akicita]

93. Funny. And so true.

[libodem]

92. I knew I liked that guy

[warrprayer]

94. The Pope RENOUNCES the Rump

And all his works!

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

96. Christian?? I'm not even sure he's human..

[Bad Dog]

99. History has a habit of repeating itself.