EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

[MowCowWhoHow III]

Source: BBC

Britain will vote on whether to remain in the EU on Thursday, 23 June, Prime Minister David Cameron has said.

The prime minister made his historic statement in Downing Street after briefing the cabinet on his EU reform deal.

He said he had told ministers he will recommend remaining in a reformed EU.

Home Secretary Theresa May has backed him - but other ministers including Justice Secretary Michael Gove are expected to join the out campaign.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35621079

[Helen Borg]

1. BS referendum...

It's not binding, why even do it?

[Bad Dog]

2. Of course it's binding.

If the vote is no Britain leaves the EU.

[Ghost Dog]

3. As a UK and EU citizen & long-time resident in Spain

I am very interested in the outcome of this referendum, but am offered zero opportunity to vote.

Perhaps, together with others, I will raise this issue in a High Court.

[muriel_volestrangler]

4. Those who have lived abroad under 15 years get a vote

Who will be able to vote?

British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens over 18 who are resident in the UK, along with UK nationals who have lived overseas for less than 15 years. Members of the House of Lords and Commonwealth citizens in Gibraltar will also be eligible, unlike in a general election. Citizens from EU countries - apart from Ireland, Malta and Cyprus - will not get a vote.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32810887

That's quite a long time - enough to get new citizenships in most countries, I'd think. I doubt the courts will see there's a right to vote in elections that lasts forever, if you're not in the country. People born in Scotland but living outside it didn't get a vote in the independence referendum.

[Ghost Dog]

5. Last I heard it was ten years since

Last edited Sat Feb 20, 2016, 02:50 PM - Edit history (4)

you were last registered to vote in UK (not since one registered residency in another country).

This policy, anyway, harks back to 19th century and earlier British colonial times: if, back then, one had emigrated to become a coloniser, then perhaps one would indeed lose touch with, and the right to vote in, UK, after a time. But a modern, well-connected, UK citizen in the EU is in a very different position, and under the (psuedo)-EU constitution should not be discriminated against nor disenfranchised.

... A propos... What's the UK position on dual nationality these days? Depends who you are?

...Edit: from the BBC piece you quote, thanks strangler:

Who will be able to vote?

British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens over 18 who are resident in the UK, along with UK nationals who have lived overseas for less than 15 years. Members of the House of Lords and Commonwealth citizens in Gibraltar will also be eligible, unlike in a general election. Citizens from EU countries - apart from Ireland, Malta and Cyprus - will not get a vote

.

WTF?

The term "overseas" speaks volumes as regards the essentially xenophobic (and, dare I say, "Master Race&quot mentality promoted inside the propagandised UK hive/borg-mind). Having chosen to live, under EU terms agreed with UK, in another country of the EU is not the same as having chosen to go to live in Australia, say, North Korea or the USA.

Nb. I am, of course, also a citizen of the Commonwealth (but not a member of the House of Turds, wherever for tax purposes resident, apparantly). Nor am I Maltese nor Cypriot, ¿huh?

Foul.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. 'overseas' is very geographical, and nothing to do with people or ethnicities

You are a citizen of the Commonwealth (as are Maltese and Cypriots), and so those who are resident in the UK get to vote, as do the Irish, whose country used to be part of the UK (and thus with closer ties than, say Canada - when they got independence, those resident in the remaining UK kept their vote).

After 15 years, which region or constituency would you be linked to, for electoral voting? They're applying the same test for the referendum as for a general election.

[Ghost Dog]

8. Ayyy. You remind me of why I'm glad

I refused the offer to enter the Civil Service through the 'fast stream', back in the day... Thanks again

"Europe" is also a geographical term... and much more than that.

UK citizen resident in EU is not the same as one resident outside EU, if EU treaties UK has signed are respected.

I would propose one or several EU constituencies in which to vote, in national general elections. The referendum, surely, is not constituency-based.

Nb. As regards Dual Nationality I find that is only potentially available to non-British Subjects (yes, that term and legal concept returns):

https://www.gov.uk/dual-citizenship



... But, edit, hang on, I see that the meaning of the term "British Subject," has changed: https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality/british-subject

Hmm. Does an existing British Citizen lose that status, immediately or potentially, on taking another nationality or citizenship? That is the still-unanswered question.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. Very few people are British subjects, rather than citizens, these days

What that's saying is basically that it's a special category for the unusual cases (it doesn't give you right of residency in the UK, for instance), and if you get citizenship of somewhere else, you have to give up the 'subjecthood'.

Having special representatives of a highly variable grouping - those living overseas who want to register for voting - would be an administrative nightmare each election you had - how many MPs would represent them? Would you fall in that category the moment you went overseas (eg for a year's study), or would it be only for the long-term absentees? I don't see there's an injustice in saying your connection to the country has a time limit for the purposes of representation.

In this particular case of British membership of the EU, I can see an argument that British people living in the EU have an interest in the outcome, even if they've been away for more than 15 years. But since this was all decided in a bill between May and December, when it got royal assent, I doubt any court would take a case on it - if it got through Parliament, they were pretty sure on the legality of it.

[Ghost Dog]

10. Yes, the referendum's electoral college is clearly designed

to keep the process simple for those who have to administer it. But, to quote from Andrew Rawnsley's OP today:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/21/eu-refendum-tory-party-uk-at-stake

David Cameron was absolutely right when he declared that “the choice goes to the heart of what kind of country we want to be”. This campaign will not be like a general election and the decision will be much more epic in its consequences than choosing a tenant for Number 10. When we select a prime minister, we give them a short-term lease on power with the right to change our minds after five years. In or Out will be a generational choice about the future of the United Kingdom.

This is why all British citizens, wherever resident, should have been enabled to vote if they so wish. We do have an inalienable, so far, right to return, after all.

As it is, outcomes either way look pretty grim for UK as a whole and in parts and for the majority of its citizens everywhere, imho

[Turborama]

11. What the difference between a UK national and a British citizen?

And any idea how they can vote if they live overseas?

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. I don't think there is a difference; 'British citizen' is the term used officially

and I think 'UK national' is just used when writers want to stop saying "British citizen' constantly.

People who have lived overseas for less than 15 years use a postal vote (or a proxy vote, but I suspect few do that): https://www.gov.uk/government/news/there-is-still-time-for-uk-citizens-overseas-to-register-to-vote-in-the-general-election

I don't think they organise any in-person voting, even in places like overseas army bases where there could be many voters, because you'd have to send each vote back to the right constituency, which would be effectively posting them, and the normal election system depends on the votes being in the constituencies by the following day at the latest.

[Nihil]

14. If you couldn't be bothered to live here, why the hell do you expect to be able to vote here?

> As a UK and EU citizen & long-time resident in Spain
> I am very interested in the outcome of this referendum, but am offered zero opportunity to vote.

If you don't live in a country (i.e., not just on an extended holiday or a temporary work contract abroad),
how can you expect to be allowed to vote on matters that affect the people who do live there?

Seriously?


> Perhaps, together with others, I will raise this issue in a High Court.

Suggest you start with the Spanish High Court and then appeal to the European Court.
Of course, it isn't going to help you in this referendum (due to the timescales involved)
and, if the vote is for an exit, isn't going to help you at all anyway ...

[pampango]

7. Labour Party will campaign to keep the UK in the EU. Conservatives want it out.

Earlier, the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn said Cameron’s deal in Brussels was a sideshow and largely irrelevant.

“His priorities in these negotiations have been to appease his opponents in the Conservative party,” Corbyn said.

“He has done nothing to promote secure jobs, protect our steel industry, or stop the spread of low pay and the undercutting of wages in Britain. Labour’s priorities for reform in the EU would be different, and David Cameron’s deal is a missed opportunity to make the real changes we need.

“We will be campaigning to keep Britain in Europe in the coming referendum, regardless of David Cameron’s tinkering, because it brings investment, jobs and protection for British workers and consumers.”

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/20/cameron-set-to-name-eu-referendum-date-after-cabinet-meeting

[MowCowWhoHow III]

13. London mayor Boris Johnson backs Brexit in blow for Cameron

Last edited Sun Feb 21, 2016, 02:10 PM - Edit history (1)

London mayor Boris Johnson backs Brexit in blow for Cameron

London (AFP) - London mayor Boris Johnson on Sunday said he would support a vote for Britain to leave the European Union in a blow for Prime Minister David Cameron ahead of a membership referendum in June.

"After a great deal of heartache... I will be advocating vote Leave," said Johnson, a popular politician from Cameron's own Conservative Party who is seen as a potential successor to the prime minister.

His comments will be seen as a key victory by supporters of Britain's departure from the EU -- or "Brexit" -- although Johnson in his comments implied he would not lead the movement and would not take part in frontline campaigning.

He said Cameron had done "fantastically well" on negotiating reforms at an EU summit last week but added: "I don't think anybody could realistically claim that this is fundamental reform of the EU or of Britain's relationship with the EU".

http://news.yahoo.com/london-mayor-boris-johnson-backs-brexit-blow-cameron-170610183.html;_ylt=A0LEVu.g8MlWHUUAmMNjmolQ

[T_i_B]

15. The whole thing is horseshit

Those who are want Britiain to remain are doing so regardless of Cameron's silly deal. And those who want Britiain to leave are unappeasable and would be decrying any deal negociated. The whole thing is at very best a colossal waste of time. At worst, it could set Britian on course for economic calamity if we do vote to leave.