American tourist killed in Tel Aviv attack: Israeli police

[MowCowWhoHow III]

Source: Reuters

An American tourist was stabbed to death by a Palestinian in the Israeli city of Tel Aviv on Tuesday in an attack in which at least nine other people were wounded, Israeli police said.

The attack took place along a boardwalk near a beach in the Jaffa area popular with tourists. The Magen David Adom ambulance service said four of the wounded had severe injuries.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-violence-tourist-idUSKCN0WA2FR

---

One killed and several wounded in attacks on Israelis

At least one person has been killed and several others were wounded in a spate of stabbings and shootings in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, Israeli officials say.

An attacker stabbed at least 10 people in the port area of Jaffa, south of Tel Aviv, killing one person, police say.

The attack happened close to where US Vice-President Joe Biden was visiting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35758143

[iandhr]

1. These stabbings are terrorism.

But I am sure some of the usual suspects will be around here shortly to justify this.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

5. So now if I have a butter knife I'm a terrorist???

You ask for it, just helping out!

[24601]

48. Yes I picked-up on the subtle sarcasm, but it's not what you have. It's instead what you do with it.

If you but fertilizer & motor oil, you could be pulling maintenance on your tractor and growing crops. Or, you could be the next Timothy McVeigh.

Knives, firearms, fertilizer, vehicles have no inherent good or bad morality in and of themselves. The wild card is the person.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

49. Subtle sarcasm?

Is this better?

[PersonNumber503602]

55. I never understood why the sarcasm image is drenched in and dripping blood.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

69. Dripping sarcasm. It's not blood, it's just red ink.

[24601]

56. I was being polite, n'est pas.

[MariaThinks]

6. yes they are.

[King_David]

23. I don't think it's even up for debate,

No different from the San Bernadino terrorists.

[iandhr]

24. Yup

[SoCalMusicLover]

35. Different In One Way

Had it been here in the good 'ol 2nd Amendment U.S.A., he would have had his choice of firearm(s), and could have raised the death count plenty.

[AtheistCrusader]

2. Cue up 14 million dollars worth of republican congressional inquiries into how this is Obama's fault

[6chars]

3. Israel MUST secure its citizens - and American tourists

And no, DUers, evacuating Tel Aviv is not the answer.

[6chars]

4. this was a Palestinian gesture for Biden

At the time of the murder, Biden was meeting with Shimon Peres at the Peres Peace Center a mile away Jaffa.

[COLGATE4]

7. It's an old middle-eastern tradition -

- in lieu of flowers please kill a tourist

[6chars]

9. I am waiting for the White House to say something

Last time Biden visited Israel they were absolutely furious about the insult by Israel when some apartment permits moved along in the approval process. I am wondering whether multiple terrorist attacks, sending a dozen plus to the hospital, and murdering an American will be merit condemnation, or will it merit a call for restraint on all sides, or what.

If it were me, I would condemn the attacks. In fact, I do.

[6chars]

50. State department takes a "balanced" approach

"We continue to encourage all parties to take affirmative steps to reduce tensions and restore calm"

Jesus H. Christ, the victim here was a US Veteran who served tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't want to get all military rah rah, but I would really like to see the White House say something a little stronger.

[leftynyc]

15. That

is the very definition of gallows humor.

[Bad Dog]

8. Some Context.

From the PSC.

These are the names and circumstances of the 180 Palestinians, 1 asylum seeker and the 21 Israelis killed between October 1st 2015 and 21st February 2016.

This should be seen in the context of the ongoing military occupation by Israel of the West Bank and East Jerusalem and Gaza since 1967, and the creation of more than 750,000 Palestinian refugees in 1948. Add to this the lack of movement towards peace or justice for Palestinians, despite numerous UN resolutions and condemnation by those governments friendly to Israel of, e.g. settlement activity. There are now at least 650,000 Israeli settlers living illegally in the West Bank and East Jerusalem in contravention of international law. Their presence results in additional hardships for Palestinian people through: loss of freedom of movement; loss of homes and communities; curtailing economic and business opportunities, and violent attacks by Israeli forces and Israeli settlers. This is an illegal and unsustainable situation.

Since October 2015, there have been a number of attacks by individuals or small groups on Israeli soldiers, settlers and civilians living in Israel. In total 181 Palestinians and 21 Israelis died between 1st October 2015 and 21st February 2016. All deserve to be remembered and here are their names.

We will try to add to it as more information comes through at the same time as continuing to work for peace with justice so that the killings come to an end. To this large number of deaths we need to add the huge number of injuries (c. 15,000 Palestinians), the increasing number of Palestinians in prison, many on administrative detention and the dramatic increase in house demolitions, including reprisal demolitions, a form of collective punishment that is illegal under international law.

The majority of Israelis killed were in occupied territory. For Palestinians, many were killed when guilty of, or just suspected of, having a weapon. These are extra judicial killings as the suspected or actual perpetrators were not brought to trial. Even though there are two laws operating in the West Bank (civil law for Israeli settlers and military law for Palestinians), there is no death penalty.

Please continue to write to your MPs and other representatives so that they know how their constituents feel and so that they urge the government to take action in support of peace and of human rights for all.

It is only through international action that justice and peace can be established.

Name Age Date (if known) Locaton Circumstances (where known)

Palestinians killed

1. Mohannad Halabi,
19 03.10.15 Al-Biiereh Ramallah Shot after allegedly grabbing gun and killing two Israelis
2. Fadi Alloun
19 04.10.15 Jerusalem Israeli claim of attack but this was’ contradicted by eyewitnesses and video
3. Amjad Hatem al-Jundi, 17 Hebron
4. Thaer Abu Ghazala 19 Jerusalem
5. Abdul-Rahma Obeidallah 11 Bethlehem
6. Hotheifa Suleiman 18 Tulkarem
7. Wisam Jamal Faraj
20 08.10.15 Jerusalem Shot by an exploding bullet during protest
8. Fares Mohammad al-Ja’bar 19 Hebron, near Kiryat Arba Settlement Israeli army claimed that Al Ja’bari tried to stab a soldier and take control of his gun. Palestinian eyewitness assured media that the youth carried no knife.
9. Ahmad Jamal Salah 20 Jerusalem
10. Shadi Hussam Doula 20 09.10.15 al Faraheen area east of Khan Younis city Killed when Israeli troops opened live gunfire at Palestinian protesters in the southern part of Gaza. Six Palestinians were killed in Gaza on the same day.
11. Ahmad Abdul-Rahman al-Harbawij 20 09.10.16 Gaza
12. Abed al-Wahid 20 09.10.16 Gaza
13. Mohammad Hisham al-Raqab 15 09.10.16 Gaza
14. Adnan Mousa Abu ‘Oleyyan,
22 09.10.16 Gaza
15. Ziad Nabil Sharaf 20 09.10.16 Gaza
16. Jihad Zayed Salem Obeid 22 10.10.15 Deir al-Balah, Gaza
17. Ishaq Badran
19 10.10.15 Jerusalem Israeli claim of ‘attack’ was contradicted by eyewitnesses
18. Marwan Hisham Barbakh 13 10.10.15 Gaza Died of serious wounds from the previous day when the Israeli forces killed six Palestinian protesters in Gaza and injured dozens more
19. Khalil Omar Othman 15 10.10.15 Gaza
20. Nour Rasmie Hassan
30 11.10.15 Gaza Killed along with her child in an Israeli airstrike
21. Rahaf Yahya Hassan
2 11.10.15 Gaza Killed along with her mother in an Israeli airstrike.
22. Mohammad Said Ali 19 Jerusalem
23. Ibrahim Ahmad Mustafa Awad
28 11.10.15 Hebron Died after being shot at protest by rubber-coated steel bullet in his forehead
24. Ahmad Abdullah Sharaka 13 Al Jalazoun Refugee camp-Ramallah
25. Mostafa Al Khateeb 18 Sur-Baher Jerusalem
26. Hassan Khalid Manassr 15 Jerusalem
27. Mohammad Nathmie Shamasna,
22 12.10.15 Qotna – Jerusalem
28. Baha’ Elian 22 13.10.15 Jabal Al Mokaber-Jerusalem Shot after allegedly killing 3 Israelis on bus
29. Mutaz Ibrahim Zawahr 27 Bethlehem Hit with a live bullet in the chest during a demonstration.
30. Ala’ Abu Jammal,
33 13.10.15 West Jerusalem Shot after stabbing and killing an Israeli Rabbi in West Jerusalem
31. Bassem Bassam Sidr 17 14.10.15 Jerusalem Killed in Jerusalem after an Israeli shouted that he ‘had a knife’ – but no knife was present
32. Ahmad Abu Sh’aban,
23 14.10.15 Jerusalem
33. Riyadh Ibraheem Dar-Yousif 46 Al Janyia village Ramallah Killed while harvesting olives
34. Fadi Al-Darbi 30 14.10.15 Jenin died in Israeli detention camp
35. Eyad Khalil Al Awawdah Hebron
36. Ihab Hannani 19 Nablus
37. Fadel al-Qawasmi
18 Hebron Shot by paramilitary settler, Israeli soldier then caught on film planting knife near his body
38. Yahya Abdel-Qader Farhat 23 16.10.15 Gaza Border Killed during protest at the border with Israel
39. Shawqie Jamal Jaber Obeid, 37 16.10.15 Gaza Died of wounds sustained the previous week during protest when 6 people died
40. Mahmoud Hatem Hmeid 22 16.10.15 Northern Gaza border killed during protest at border
41. Mo’taz Ahmad ‘Oweisat 16 17.10.15 Jerusalem Military claimed he had a knife
42. Bayan Abdul-Wahab al-‘Oseyli 16 17.10.15 Hebron Military claimed she had a knife, but video evidence contradicts that claim
43. Tariq Ziad an-Natsha 22 17.10.15 Hebron
44. Omar Mohammad al-Faqeeh 22 17.10.15 Qalandia Military claimed he had a knife
45. Mohannad al-‘Oqabi 21 Negev Allegedly killed soldier in bus station in Beer Sheba
46. Hoda Mohammad Darweesh 65 Jerusalem
47. Hamza Mousa Al Amllah 25 20.10.15 near Gush Etzion settlement From Hebron but killed close to the Settlement
48. Odai Hashem al-Masalma 24 20.10.15 Beit ‘Awwa town near Hebron.
49. Ahmad al-Sarhi 27 20.10.16 Gaza, al-Boreij Refugee Camp
50. Hussam Isma’el Al Ja’bari 18 21.10.15 Hebron
51. Bashaar Nidal Al Ja’bari 15 21.10.15 Hebron
52. Hashem al-‘Azza 54 21.10.15 Hebron Died of tear gas inhalation
53. Moa’taz Attalah Qassem 22 21.10.15 Eezariyya near Jerusalem
54. Mahmoud Khalid Eghneima 20 Hebron
55. Ahmad Mohammad Said Kamil, 16
16 23.10.15 Jenin
56. Yihya Hashem Kreira 20 23.10.15 Gaza Died of wounds sustained the previous week during protest at Nahal Oz
57. Khalil Hassan Abu Obeid
25 24.10.15 Khan Younis, Gaza Died from wounds sustained in protest earlier in the week
58. Salama Mousa Abu Jame 23 Khan Younis, Gaza
59. Sa’id Mohamed Yousif Al-Atrash 20 Hebron
60. Dania Jihad Irshied, 17 25.10.15 Hebron
61. Raed Sakit Abed Al Raheem Thalji Jaradat 22 Sa’ir – Hebron
62. Eyad Rouhi Ihjazi Jaradat 19 Sa’ir – Hebron
63. Ezzeddin Nadi Sha’ban Abu Shakhdam,
17 Hebron Shot by Israeli military after allegedly wounding soldier, then left to bleed to death
64. Shadi Nabil Dwei 22 Hebron Shot by Israeli military after allegedly wounding the same soldier as Ezzeddin Abu Shakhdam, then left to bleed to death.
65. Homam Adnan Sa’id 23 27.10.15 Tel Rumeida -Hebron Shot by Israeli soldiers claiming he had a knife, but eyewitnesses report seeing soldiers throwing a knife next to his dead body
66. Islam Rafiq Obeid 23 28.10.15 Tel Rumeida -Hebron
67. Nadim Eshqeirat 52 29.10.15 Jerusalem Died when Israeli soldiers delayed the ambulance coming to tend to his wounds
68. Mahdi Mohammad Ramadan al-Mohtasib 23 29.10.15 Hebron
69. Farouq Abdul-Qader Seder 19 29.10.15 Hebron
70. Qassem Saba’na 20 30.10.15 Za’atara CP shot on motorcycle near Zaatara checkpoint
71. Ahmad Hamada Qneibi 23 Jerusalem Soldiers claimed he had a knife
72. Ramadan Mohammad Faisal Thawabta 8 mths Bethlehem Died of tear gas inhalation
73. Mahmoud Talal Abdul-Karim Nazza 18 31.10.15 Al-Jalama Chekpoint near Jenin Israeli troops claim he had a knife, but eyewitnesses contradict that claim
74. Fadi Hassan al-Froukh 27 01.11.15 Beit Einoun – east of Hebron
75. Ahmad Awad Abu ar-Rob
16 Jenin
76. Samir Ibrahim Skafi 23 04.11.15 West Bank Shot by Israeli soldiers and died, after his car hit a soldier who was on the street – it is unknown if he hit the soldier intentionally or accidentally
77. Malek Talal Sharif 25 05.11.15 Hebron shot dead after the army claimed he attempted to stab a settler
78. Tharwat Ibrahim Salman Sha’raw 73 Hebron shot dead by the army
79. Salman Aqel Mohammad Shahin, 22 Nablus
80. Rasha Ahmad Hamed ‘Oweissi 24 Qalqilya Carried suicide note and knife, but did not attempt to attack anyone
81. Mohammad Abed Nimir 37 Jerusalem
82. Sadeq Ziyad Gharbiyya 16 Jenin
83. Abdullah Azzam Shalald 26 Hebron
84. Mahmoud Mohammad Issa Shalalda
22 Sa’ir, Hebron
85. Hasan Jihad al-Baw
22 Halhoul, Hebron
86. Lafi Yousef Awad
22 Budrus, Ramallah
87. Laith Ashraf Manasra
25 Qalandia
88. Ahmad Sobhi Abu al-‘Aish
30 Qalandia
89. Mohammad Monir Hasan Saleh 24 Aroura – Ramallah
90. Shadi Zohdi Arafa
28 Hebron
91. Mahmoud Sa’id ‘Oleyyan
22 Ramallah
92. Ashraqat Taha Qatanany
16 Nablus Rammed by car & shot under disputed claim that she had a knife
93. Shadi Mohammad Mahmoud Khseib
From al-Bireh Shot by Israeli settler after car accident.
94. Sami Shawqi Madhi 41 12.11.15 Gaza, Al Bureij Camp killed during protest at the camp
95. Mahmoud Mohammad al-‘Agha 20 18.11.15 Khan Younis, Gaza killed during protest
96. Issa Thawabta 34 22.11.15 Gush Etzion Settlement Shot after allegedly stabbing Israeli.
97. Hadeel Wajeeh ‘Awwad 16 23.11.15 Jerusalem Shot to death after allegedly stabbing and wounding an elderly Palestinian man
98. Ahmad Jamal Taha, 16 23.11.15 Ramallah Shot to death after allegedly stabbing an Israeli settler at a petrol station
99. Alaa Khalil Sabah Hashah 16 23.11.15 Huwwara CP near Nablus Shot to death with at least 10 bullets, Israeli troops claimed he had a knife but eyewitnesses contradicted that claim
100. Mohammad Ismael Shobaki 19 25.11.15 south of Hebron Shot multiple times after allegedly stabbing an Israeli soldier
101. Hani Rafiq Wahdan 22 25.11.15 al-Shejaiyya, eastern Gaza killed by Israeli forces during protest
102. Ibrahim Abdul-Halim Daou 16 25.11.15 West Bank died of wounds sustained two weeks earlier when he was shot in the heart by Israeli soldiers while at a protest
103. Yahya Yosri Tah 21 26.11.15 Qotna, near Ramallah Shot by live rounds from Israeli forces at demonstration
104. Samer Hasan Series 51 26.11.15 Za’atara checkpoint Shot by Israeli soldiers and left to bleed to death as Israeli medics joked and laughed nearby
105. Mahmoud al-Jawabreh 19 26.11.15 al-Aroub refugee camp Killed by Israeli forces during a protest
106. Fadi Mohammad Mahmoud Khseib,
25 Jerusalem Killed by armed paramilitary settler after car accident.

107. Omar Arafat Za’aqeeq 27.11.15 Beit Ummar (nr Hebron) killed by Israeli soldiers after car accident
108. Abdul-Rahman al-Mobasher
28.11.15 Tunnel in Gaza died in tunnel collapse
109. Yousef Abu Sbeikha al-Boheiri 48 28.11.15 al-Boreij Camp, Gaza died from wounds developed two days earlier when he was shot by Israeli soldiers while he was working on his farmland.
110. Baseem Abdul-Rahman Mustafa Salah 38 29.11.15 West Bank killed by Israeli police after allegedly stabbing and wounding Israeli police officer.
111. Ayman Samih al-‘Abbasi 17 29.11.15 Ras al-‘Amoud killed when he was participating in a demonstration (he was from Silwan in East Jerusalem)
112. Ma’moun al-Khatib 16 01.12.15 Bethlehem Killed after alleged stabbing attempt
113. Maram Hasounah 20 01.12.15 Nablus arrived at a checkpoint holding an axe and hitting the watchtower with it. Shot by multiple soldiers and killed
114. Mazin Hasan Ureiba,
37 03.12.15 West Bank Palestinian police officer from Abu Dis, killed near Hizma checkpoint after allegedly shooting and wounding Israeli soldier
115. ‘Ezz al-Deen Rayeq ‘Abdullah Raddad 21 03.12.15 al-Masrara area of Jerusalem shot and killed after allegedly stabbing an Israeli police officer
116. Taher Faisal Abdul Men’em Fanoun, 21 03.12.15 Nr Hebron killed at checkpoint
117. Mostafa Fadel Abdul Men’em Fanou 16 03.12.15 Nr Hebron Cousin of Taher (above) killed at checkpoint near Hebron in same
118. Abdul Rahman Wajih Ibrahim Abdul Majid 27 03.12.15 Aboud village Killed at entrance to village when he pushed back against a soldier who had slapped him in the face. He was shot multiple times by three soldiers
119. Anas Bassam Abdul Rahim Hammad 21 Silwan Killed near Silwan village after car accident in which the vehicle he was driving struck Israeli soldiers
120. ‘Amer Yaser Iskafi
Nr Jerusalem killed by numerous gunshots by Israeli soldiers north of Jerusalem
121. Ehab Fathi Miswada 21 07.12.15 Hebron Shot to death after allegedly stabbing and wounding Israeli man. Was left to bleed to death by Israeli medical crews
122. Malek Shahin 18 Deheishe Camp (Bethlehem) Shot in the head with exploding bullet during demonstration against invading Israeli forces.

123. Abdul Rahman Yosri Zakaria Miswada 21 09.12.15 Hebron killed near center of Hebron after allegedly wounding Israeli
124. Omar ‘Issa Hroub, 56 11.12.15 Nr Hebron Killed while driving his car on Sa’ir road; he was from Deir Samit village
125. Oday Irshaid 24 11.12.15 Hebron Hit by two bullets from to his chest and neck while participating in a protest (his younger sister Dania was killed on 10/25).
126. Ahmad Jahahja 21 11.12.15 Qalandia
127. Hekmat Hamdan
11.12.15 Qalandia
128. Samah ‘Abdel Mo’men ‘Abdullah 18 16.12.15 Nr Nablus from Amoriah village, southeast of Nablus, succumbed of wounds sustained on 23 November at Huwwara checkpoint, when she was shot with a bullet to the head
129. Abdullah Hussein Ahmad Nasasra 15 17.12.15 Nr Nablus from Beit Furik town, east of Nablus
130. Mohammad Abdul-Rahman Ayyad 21 18.12.15 Silwad shot while driving his car near Silwad
131. Nash’at ‘Asfou 33 18.12.15 Sinjel shot by an exploding bullet during Israeli military invasion of his village
132. Issa Assaf 21 23.12.15 Jerusalem shot after allegedly stabbing and killing Israeli man near Damascus Gate in Jerusalem.
133. Anan Abu Habsa 20 23.12.15 Jerusalem shot during the same incident, after allegedly stabbing and killing Israeli man near Damascus Gate in Jerusalem
134. Wisam Abu Ghweilq 24.12.15 West Bank shot by more than 30 bullets after a car accident
135. Eyad Jamal Ed’eis, 26 24.12.15 Hebron killed during an Israeli invasion of Hebron
136. Mohammad Abdul-Halim Zahran
22 24.12.15 West Bank killed after allegedly stabbing and lightly wounding two security guards at an Israeli settlement
137. Bilal Zayed 22 24.12.15 Qalandia Camp Shot in the head during Israeli invasion of Qalandia refugee camp
138. Mahdiyya Mohammad Ibrahim Hammad 38 25.12.15 Silwad mother of four shot near Silwad when Israeli troops claimed she tried to ram them with her car but witnesses say that she was 30 meters away
139. Mos’ab al-Ghazalj 26 26.12.15 Jerusalem killed after Israeli claim of’attempted stabbing
140. Maher al-Jabi 54 26.12.15 Huwwara nr Nablus Shot by Israeli soldiers while driving near
141. Mohammad Saba’ana 23 27.12.15 Main road near to Huwwara Checkpoint Shot to death by Israeli soldiers who claimed that he had a knife.
142. Nour al-Deen Saba’ana 17 27.12.15 Main road near to Huwwara Checkpoint Shot to death in same incident; frpm Qabatya village, south east of Jenin
143. Hassan Ali Hassan Bozo 22 31.12.15 Huwwara checkpoint, nr, Nablus killed at by Israeli soldiers while driving his car
144. Shadi Ghbeish 38 Jalazoun Camp Died of wounds sustained several weeks prior when Israeli soldiers beat him severely at al-Jalazoun refugee camp, north of Ramallah.
145. Ahmad Kawazbah, 18 05.01.16 Nr Gush Etzion Settlement . Shot with multiple rouinds after alleged attempt to stab soldier. Came from Sa’ir village, east of Hebron
146. Ahmed Salem Abdul Majid Kawazbah 19 07.01.16 Nr Gush Etzion Settlement Also came from Sa’ir village, east of Hebron
147. Alaa Abed Mohammad Kawazbah 19 07.01.15 Nr Gush Etzion Settlement Same incident – also came from Sa’ir village, east of Hebron
148. Mohammad Zeyad Kawazbah, 18
18 07.01.15 Nr Gush Etzion Settlement Same incident; they were related and from the same village.
149. Khalil Mohammad Shalaldah 16 07.01.15 Beit Eynoun checkpoint, east of Hebron (brother of Mahmoud Mohammad Shalalda , who was killed by the Israeli army on November 13, 2015)
150. Ali Abu Mariam (Ali Mohammad Hajj Mohammad) 26 09.01.15 Al-Hamrah Checkpoint, nr Tubas Killed when Israeli soldiers were searching cars and made a claim of an attempt to stab them, but provided no evidence of that claim. He was a 3rd year student at al Quds University
151. Saa’id Jawdat Abu al-Waf 38 09.01.15 Al-Hamrah Checkpoint, nr Tubas Same incident
152. Srour Ahmad Ibrahim Abu Srour 19 12.01.15 Beit Jala Killed in clashes in Beit Jala while returning home from Al Quds University. He was from Aida Refugee Camp, Bethlehem
153. Adnan Ayed Hamed al-Halayqa, 17
12.01.15 Beit Eynoun Checkpoint nr, Hebron Killed by soldiers who claimed attempted stabbing of soldier, but no soldier was injured.
154. Mohammad Ahmad Kawazbah 23 12.01.15 Beit Eynoun Checkpoint nr, Hebron Killed in same incident (from Sa’ir village)
155. Mousa Z’eiter
23 13.01.16 Jabalia refugee camp, northern Gaza
156. Haitham Mahmoud Abdul-Jaleel Yassin
36 14.01.15 Aseera ash-Shemaliyya town, Nablus
157. Moayyad Awni Jabarin 20 14.01.15 Sa’ir, Hebron
158. Wisam Marwan Qasrawah 21 16.01.16 Nr Jenin Qasarwah stepped out of a taxi after crossing a checkpoint, allegedly threw a knife at the Israeli soldiers from a far distance, but it did not hit anybody. Israeli soldiers stationed in the Checkpoint watchtower shot him dead with 10 bullets.
159. Khalil Mousa Amar 19 18.01.15 West Bank Killed in ramming attack by settler while he was riding his bike
160. Roqayya Eid Abu Eid 13 24.01.15 Anatot Settlement Killed by an armed guard of Anatot Settlement. Israeli officials claimed that she had a knife, but her family contradicted that claim
161. Mohammad Nabil Halabiyya 16 24.01.16 Abu Dis (E. Jerusalem) Killed when an explosive he was carrying detonated prematurely
162. Ibrahim Osama Yousef ‘Allan
23 25.01.16 Holon Settlement, West Bank Shot and killed by Israeli after he was accused of stabbing to death an Israeli woman in Holon settlement
163. Hussein Mohammad Abu Ghosh
17 25.01.16 Holon Settlement, West Bank Killed in same incident
164. Amjad Sokkari Abu Omar 35 31.01.16 Beit El Checkpoint, nr Ramallah Killed after he allegedly opened fire at Israeli soldiers stationed at the checkpoint, wounding three of them
165. Ahmad Toba
19 01.02.160 Kufor Jamal, nr Tulkarem Killed by Israeli forces while attempting to get into Israel in pursuit of work.
166. Ahmad Awad Abu al-Ro 21 03.02.16 Jerusalem Killed, along with two others accused of killing an Israeli police officer, Hadar Cohen, and wounded another, during an armed attack near Damascus Gate
167. Mohammad Kamil,
20 03.02.16 Jerusalem Killed in same incident
168. Ahmad Zakarna
22 03.02.16 Jerusalem Killed in same incident
169. Haitham Ismael Mohammad al-Baw
14 05.02.16 West Bank Was killed by Israeli army fire after he and another Palestinian allegedly attempted to throw Molotov cocktails at a military roadblock
170. Omar Yousef Madhi Jawabra 15 10.02.16 Al ‘Arrouib Camp Israeli soldiers invaded al-‘Arroub refugee camp, north of Hebron, and shot Omar with a live round that penetrated his heart and exited from the left side
171. Kilzar Mohammad al-Oweiw 18 13.02.16 West Bank Israeli soldiers shot her three times, including one bullet that passed through her lung and lodged in her neck. She was denied medical treatment by the soldiers who surrounded her as she bled to death. The army claims she attempted to stab a soldier
172. Naim Ahmad Yousef Safi,
17 14.02.16 Al-Khass Israeli soldiers shot him as he was trying to cross a military roadblock near al-Khass and an-No’man villages. The soldiers accused him of attempting to stab a soldier.
173. Nihad Raed Mohammad Wakid
15 14.02.16 Nr Jenin Israeli soldiers shot and killed these 15 year old boys near the Annexation Wall section west of Jenin. The soldiers prevented local medics from approaching the two wounded children, and left them bleeding on the ground for two hours
174. Fuad Marwan Khaled Wakid
15 14.02.16 Nr Jenin
175. Mansour Yasser Shawamra
20 14.02.16 Jerusalem Killed, along with another 20-year old, after exchanging fire with Israeli soldiers and officers near the light-rail station, in Bab al-‘Amoud area, in Jerusalem
176. . Omar Mohammad Amro
20 14.02.16 Jerusalem Killed in the same incident
177. Mohammad Ziad Abu Khalaf
20 19.02.16 West Bank The Israeli army shot him allegedly after he attempted to stab police officers, mildly wounding two before he was shot dead. He was first shot with two live rounds, followed by dozens more shots after he was already injured and bleeding on the ground
178. Khaled Tareq Yousef Taqatqa 21 19.02.16 Beit Fajjar, south of Bethlehem Killed by Israeli army fire after the soldiers invaded the town. Medics said the young man was left bleeding on the ground, after the soldiers prevented them from approaching him.
179. Aabed Abdullah Hamed
20 19.02.16 Silwad, nr Ramallah Killed after Israeli soldiers invaded the town, and shot him, allegedly after he tried ram them with his car
180. Qussai Thiab Abu ar-Rob
17 21.02.16 West Bank Killed by Israeli soldiers who accused him of having a knife in his hand. Eyewitnesses contradicted the soldiers’ account. He was the cousin of Ahmad Awad Abu ar-Rob, 16, who was killed in November.
Non Palestinian death
181. Haftom Zarhum 18.10.15 Beersheva bus station Eritrean asylum-seeker killed in by angry mob of Israelis who mistook him for a Palestinian.
Names of known Israeli casualties during the same time period
Name Age Date (if known) Locaton Circumstances (where known)
1. Eitam Henkij c. 30 01.10.15 Nr Itamar Settlement, West Bank killed in drive-by shooting
2. Na’ama Henkin c.30 01.10.15
3. Rabbi Nahmia Lavi 41 03.10.15 Jerusalem Rabbi for Israeli military. Killed in stabbing attack near Lion’s Gate when he tried to shoot the attacker but had his weapon taken
4. Aaron Bennet 24 03.10.15 Jerusalem Killed in stabbing attack near Lion’s Gate
5. Rabbi Yeshayahu Krishevsky 60 13.10.15 West Jerusalem Stabbed on street in West Jerusalem
6. Haviv Haim 78 13.10.15 Jerusalem bus shooting
7. Alon Andrei Govberg 51 13.10.15 Jerusalem Same bus shooting
8. Richard Lakin 76 13.10.15 Jerusalem Same bus shooting, although died several days later from wounds
9. Omri Levy 19 18.10.15 Israeli soldier with the Golani Brigade, had his weapon grabbed and turned against him by an Israeli resident.
10. Rabbi Yaakov Litman 13.11.15 South of Hebron killed in shooting attack on car
11. Netanel Litman 19 13.11.15 South of Hebron Killed in the same attack. He was Rabbi Litman’s son
12. Reuven Aviram 51 19.11.15 Tel Aviv killed in stabbing attack
13. Rabbi Aharon Yesayev 32 19.11.15 Tel Aviv Killed in stabbing attack
14. Yaakov Don 49 19.11.15 Nr Alon Shvut Settlement, West Bank killed in shooting attack
15. Ezra Schwartz 18 19.11.15 Nr Alon Shvut Settlement, West Bank a U.S. national, killed in shooting attack
16. Shadi Arafa 24 19.11.15 Nr Alon Shvut Settlement, West Bank A settler from Hebron, killed in the same attack
17. Hadar Buchris 21 23.11.15 Nr. Gush Etzion Settlement, West Bank killed in stabbing attack
18. Ziv Mizrahi 18 23.11.15 Close to a Settlement, West Bank Killed at gas station
19. Mordechai Birmacher 23.11.15 Jerusalem stabbed to death near Damascus Gate.
20. Shlomit Krigman 24 25.01.16 Holon Settlement, West Bank Stabbing

21. Hadar Cohen 03.02.16 Jerusalem Stabbing

An additional 2 Israelis that were initially claimed to have been killed in attacks were actually killed in car accidents.
Also, during the police intervention in the 12/23 stabbing near Damascus Gate, Ofer Ben-Ari, 46, was accidentally shot and killed by Israeli police.

http://www.palestinecampaign.org/13116-2/

[Akicita]

10. We have been occupying Hawaii for a lot longer than that but I still wouldn't want

native Hawaiians to start a stabbing spree against other Americans.

[Bad Dog]

13. You might if you started treating them like the Palestinians.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't native Hawaiians allowed to vote in America's elections. And by your use of the phrase "other Americans" you accept that Hawaiians are American citizens. You're right, give full Israeli citizenship to the Palestinians.

To quote the PSC.

All deserve to be remembered

All the unnecessary deaths. It's a shocking waste of life all round.

[Akicita]

14. How many of the Palestinian dead were terrorists who were trying to kill innocent civilians?

How many of the Israeli dead were terrorists who were trying to kill innocent civilians?

[Bad Dog]

22. I've posted a list of all the dead. You can see for yourself.

Most Palestinians were killed during demonstrations and the facts behind a lot of the "terrorist" killings are disputed. This is the effect, the cause is the occupation and the illegal settlements.

As I've said before it's a load of senseless deaths all round, and most of the deaths are Palestinian.

[Akicita]

31. It's a sad situation for sure.

[Bad Dog]

33. Agreed.

[Cavallo]

11. I think it's in response to the three teens that were killed that palestine got blamed for an then

it turned out to be an Israeli who murdered them - which was found out after several more people were killed in Palestine, by the Israeli's for retribution. After that the Knife attacks started. These people doing them seem to be people suffering from extreme depression.

[leftynyc]

16. What crap

The Palestinians have been on a stabbing spree for almost a year already. If there nothing someone wont find a fucking excuse for if it trashes Israel? Apparently not.

[closeupready]

45. Somehow, I just KNEW you'd be all over this thread.

Sure enough, you're all over this thread.

[GGJohn]

46. So fucking what? eom.

[leftynyc]

58. That's right

I'll be fucking everywhere there are those who make excuses for terrorists (just as I KNEW they would). Don't like it?, too fucking bad.

[King_David]

63. +1

[Fozzledick]

12. Because genocidal terrorism and self defense against terrorists is exactly the same thing

or so it seems you would have us think.

[leftynyc]

17. Do you believe this crap?

I'm supposed to cry over people who were trying to kill police in Israel. Not a fucking chance.

[iandhr]

25. Thank you for talking sense.

[Fast Walker 52]

18. the sad fact is this is how desperate the Palestinians are

they are fighting a modern police state with knives.

The Palestinians have tried everything, including non-violent protests, but their rights are trampled every day, in so many ways. Israel is reaping what they sowed.

[leftynyc]

19. I missed those non-violent

protests. Can you link to the stories about them, please.

[Fast Walker 52]

44. They've not gotten so much coverage, because it doesn't fit the narrative

BDS is of course a non-violent movement

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/08/22/palestinian-gandhi-who-still-believes-non-violence-answer-264041.html

http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/05/18/palestines-hidden-history-of-nonviolence-2/

https://electronicintifada.net/content/invisibility-palestinian-nonviolent-resistance-new-york-times/5775


http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/8/noam_chomsky_what_israel_is_doing

[leftynyc]

59. Maybe they haven't gotten

coverage because they're so old? I mean the foreign policy link went all the way back to the Balfour declaration (without mentioning that the Palestinians could have had a state in 1947 but thought they would force the Jews into the sea and fought instead). I didn't go to electronic intifada - it's nothing but a terrorist apologist site and the one from democracy now is just Israel bashing by a long time Israel basher and has nothing to do with peaceful demonstrations. BDS is crap and nothing but anti semitism prettied up - the examples of what makes that true are posted every single week.

[Purveyor]

20. ^^^this^^^ eom

[King_David]

29. Really ? What was the American tourists reaping ?

Guilty being a tourist while Jewish?

[iandhr]

30. The new far left loves Hamas

The rise of the leftist Jeremy Corbyn to the leadership of Britain’s opposition Labour Party appears to have empowered a far left for whom support of the Palestinians is uncritical and for whom, in the words of Alan Johnson, a British political theorist, “that which the demonological Jew once was, demonological Israel now is.”

Corbyn is no anti-Semite. But he has called Hamas and Hezbollah agents of “long-term peace and social justice and political justice in the whole region,” and once invited to Parliament a Palestinian Islamist, Raed Salah, who has suggested Jews were absent from the World Trade Center on 9/11. Corbyn called him an “honored citizen.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/08/opinion/an-anti-semitism-of-the-left.html?_r=0

[King_David]

34. It's a tiny minority of Americans that are so anti Israel

and every last one of them are here on DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=125462

As well as the extreme minority left here's also a contingent of far right wing Americans that are extremely anti Israel , witness the David Duke crowd.

[iandhr]

36. It's something that unites the far left and the far right

[SoCalMusicLover]

37. My Parents Tell Me That Constantly

They maintain that the left wing of the Democratic Party is anti-Israel, and based on that alone, they lean more towards the Repub party than they would, since their other views align more with the Democrats.

I do not agree necessarily with how Israel handles the situation, and I do not like Bibs. But I am Jewish, and will always support Israel's existence, and right to live in peace. That will NEVER happen, because it is surrounded by neighbors intent on wiping them out if given the chance. Or like here, taking the law into their own hands by killing indiscriminantly.

[King_David]

39. Agreed

Read this thread.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=125462

[leftynyc]

60. Don't let posters on DU

let you think this site represents Democratic support. A recent gallup poll (they do this poll every year) shows overwhelming sympathies for Israel over the Palestinians - even among Democrats, even among the young. It's a very loud but teeny minority that make excuses for terrorists day in and day out. It's a topic that unites the far right and the far left - to the disgust of many on the left.

[iandhr]

27. Yes yes yes....

People who call for the blog of martyrs are non-violent, people who randomly stab civilians in the street are non violent, people who launch rockets at civilians are non-violent.




These people believe that by killing Jews they will get into heaven and they need to be dealt with.


I am not surprised to see DU's Hamas fan club out in full force.

[King_David]

28. What non violent protests?

Where'd you get that from ?

[6chars]

51. no. it is that they are incited to terrorism all the time

their leaders encourage and celebrate terrorists. and their allies throughout the world pretty much agree.

[Fast Walker 52]

52. the Israelis provide more than enough fuel for that incitement

and not all Palestinian leaders are the same.

[6chars]

53. this is what their allies around the world say.

[shira]

79. Desperate? Palestinians have been offered their own state multiple times....

No occupation , no settlements, half of Jerusalem.....

Terrorists aren't desperate. Those terrorists don't want peace & 2 states.

Don't pretend otherwise.

[Fast Walker 52]

81. what state? They have never been offered anything like a real coherent independent state

what are you referring to?

Also, not all Palestinians are terrorists.

[shira]

83. 2008 was the latest example. Abbas rejected Olmert.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-admits-he-rejected-2008-peace-offer-from-olmert/

That would have resulted in their own state.
No occupation.
No settlements
Half of Jerusalem
Limited right of return
Passageway from W.Bank to Gaza.


There are dozens of land disputes worlwide without this type of bloodshed. In NONE of those other disputes would one side repeatedly reject offers for their own land & opt to go to war instead, aiming for the whole pie.

Terrorists and their sympathizers aren't desperate for peace & 2 states.

[Fast Walker 52]

87. how serious was the offer if Olmert wouldn't even give Abbas a copy of the map?

Gimme a break.

[shira]

89. You're making excuses. The fear was that if Abbas had a copy of that map....

....he would simply reject the offer and use that map as a basis for new discussions later on.

Abbas rejected the offer out of hand. He wasn't interested in examining the map a day later with a colleague.

Stop making excuses for terror & warmongering.

[Fast Walker 52]

92. seriously? He's just supposed to make a deal based on a map he's shown but can't take back and

examine and have others look at? That's insane. No leader would do that.

[shira]

93. Seriously, he should've been back within hours or back the next day with experts....

...to examine it.

He rejected the offer altogether.

[Fast Walker 52]

95. well, it's hard to know what was on the map and how fair it was

Maybe it was a great deal, but it's not clear Abbas was negotiating in bad faith. Sounds like a bad confluence of events, Olmert was under investigation for corruption, etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/28/world/middleeast/28mideast.html?_r=0

[King_David]

26. There's absolutely no "context" , justification, excuse

for cold blooded murder of Israeli civilians or American tourists at all or whatsoever...

Shame on you .....




Your post is absolutely disgusting!

[Bad Dog]

40. I've condemned all the deaths.

What is disgusting is when you only condemn some deaths and turn a blind eye to others.

I don't think you have any concept of what shame is.

[King_David]

42. Oh I know I do...

And I know when I see it.

[Bad Dog]

41. You're on ignore.

You really are not worth my time.

[King_David]

43. I don't think it's possible to ignore the truth .

That being said... I am not devastated by that....

[leftynyc]

61. This is why

so many on DU think the Democratic party largely agrees with them on Israel - because you only listen to voices you agree with. That doesn't change the yearly gallup poll that shows you are part of a teeny (very loud) minority that thinks Israel is to blame for the situation there. Our elected officials are merely representing the MAJORITY of us that support Israel. I know reality is hard sometimes but ignoring the obvious only leaves you ignorant of the other side.

[Marrah_G]

54. It's always close to 10 Palestinians for each Israeli.

[leftynyc]

85. And far more Germans died

in WWII than Americans. That doesn't make them the good guys.

[NoAssumptionsPls]

21. All deaths constitute tragedies

However, there is a context here that involves both sides which includes circumstances like the historical attacks (or threatened attacks) by Arab countries that led to wars that Israel won and in which land was taken; and the rejection of the year 2000 Clinton-brokered peace accord due to (as far as I know) limits on right of return - but otherwise giving Palestinians '67 borders, and Jerusalem as their capital. Since then, there have been 2 intifadas and these new attacks may constitute a 3rd. However, there has been incitement to kill and hate Jews on Palestinian TV for years, particularly targeted at children, which, lately, has seemed to join with Jihadist-oriented clerics who have upped the ante. Also, Hamas took over Gaza, banishing the PA, and was then elected into power. Who is to say they won't take over should there now be a 2-state solution and Israel has to then deal with an Iran-powered Palestine, while Iran also works through Syria (where it has gained increasing power) and Lebanon. Khamenei has said Israel won't exist in 20 yrs - so this seems to be the long-term game plan. Thus, whatever Israel has done to contribute to this situation, it now seems somewhat unsafe to hand a state over with '67 borders (at least to me). Yes, Israel is fortified militarily but that doesn't mean it wants to be drawn into war and see deaths occur on both sides.

I am continually mystified that people see only the plight of the Palestinian people and the need for equity and social justice without considering these other issues. There are two dynamics going on here at the same time. Yes, Palestinians are rightly frustrated and, of course, blame only Israel for the situation, but it is not that simple.

I, of course, am open to new information, respectfully presented, especially information that can look at more than one side and takes in the larger context.

[Bad Dog]

32. It's a mystery all right.

Why are so many disaffected young people turning to fundamentalist Islam when democratic, moderate opposition has achieved so much. Mahmoud Abbas has stopped the building of illegal settlements and the Palestinians can go about their business without being harassed by the IDF. The success of the Libyan Free Army has ensured a Democratic Utopia now exist in Syria, and Egypt is a now a Democracy no longer ruled by a dictator.

Why on Earth would anyone embrace fundamentalism and terrorism when the moderates have achieved so much?

[oberliner]

67. Most Palestinians are not fundamentalist Muslims

In fact, it's one of the more secular populations in the region.

[Bad Dog]

70. You don't have to tell me that.

My post was heavily laden with irony but my point remains. For years democratic, moderate opposition to Israeli occupation and Despotic Arab rulers has been sidelined and marginalised. The leaders have been locked up, not just in Israel but Egypt, Syria, Jordan. All that was left in Egypt was the Muslim Brotherhood and their Democratically elected president is now rotting in prison.

When you take away people's ability to protest peacefully don't be surprised when so many disillusioned young Muslims see violent jihad as an answer. Nobody is ignoring Islamic State. Look how much trouble they've caused and they're less than 0.5% of the Global Muslim population. Can you imagine what things would be like if the other 99.5% got radicalised? That's not a World I want to live in.

The West needs to start supporting Moderate Democratic Arab leaders even if it does mean coming into conflict with friendly despotic regimes because the alternative is not worth thinking about.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

38. can't wait for State to put Israel on the do not travel to list.

Yo, Bibi, how do you like them apples?

[leftynyc]

62. That's quite the fantasy

life you've got there. You DO realize that will NEVER happen, don't you?

[NoAssumptionsPls]

47. Hamas's Charter calls for elimination of all Jews in Israel

and most Hamas leaders agree.

How can there then be peace when Hamas is in charge of Gaza, and very likely, with Iran's help, will find a way to transfer that objective to a Palestininan state, especially with the new hostilities going on?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant

[Bad Dog]

57. Because what Hamas says is far worse than what the IDF does.

Hamas' Charter calls for the elimination of the State of Israel, not the Jews, and it's largely rhetorical. The Ulster Unionists found Sinn Fein's position on a United Ireland just as problematic. If we'd insisted Sinn Fein drop it, the Troubles would still be ongoing.

Hamas are quite prepared to call long term cease fires up to 20 years. After 20 years of peace people aren't going to want to turn back. Look how isolated the few dissident Republicans in Northern Ireland are now even though Sinn Fein hasn't altered its position in any way.

Netanyahu is using Hamas' Charter as an excuse to create facts on the ground, increase illegal settlement building and the destruction of Palestinian homes. That's what's happening right now. Hamas were initially funded by the State of Israel in the first place in order to destabilise Fatah and split the Palestinians. Hamas at least, like Sinn Fein, can be negotiated with, the alternative is to let IS linked groups like Islamic Jihad take over.

The only viable solution is to sit down and talk to all parties including Hamas. Unfortunately the last Israeli leader brave enough to embrace peace, Yitzhak Rabin, was murdered by Israeli terrorists. And Netanyahu has never been interested in peace.

And that is why Northern Ireland is relatively peaceful and economically viable whilst Israel/Palestine is a mess. Only the occupier can stop the occupation.

[leftynyc]

64. A ceasefire for 20 years?

Where is your evidence of that? When have they ever said they would agree to that in return for peace alone and not with that right of return that would destroy Israel?

[King_David]

66. The whole post is rubbish,

Hamas is a Jew and Gay hating terrorist organization ,and talks about Jews not Israelis ,and to see someone defending this antiZionist, antisemitic,homophobic hate group here on DU ( a Democratic Party supporting website) is disgraceful.

[leftynyc]

68. Agree completely

I was graciously asking them to back up the bullshit. Anyone who thinks the terrorist hamas is in the least bit interested in peace is delusional.

[King_David]

65. Your post is crap, where do you get this rubbish from that you post as "fact"

You say:

Hamas' Charter calls for the elimination of the State of Israel, not the Jews,

Well that is crap.....

The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant

[6chars]

72. why is building apartments considered worse than murdering people?

[Bad Dog]

73. It's called ethnic cleansing.

The IDF are murdering plenty of people too, look at the list of the dead. See how the dead Palestinans dwarfs the dead Israeli.

Why do you only value the lives of Israelis?

[6chars]

74. except it's not

if you really think that putting up a new apartment building in Gilo on the undeveloped outskirts of Jerusalem is cleansing anyone, that is silly but it is protested as if it is a nazi war crime.

As for deaths of Palestinians, they are regrettable. Nonetheless, there is a difference. Shooting someone who has walked up to someone to try to just stab them to death because of their identity is not something that causes me a great deal of concern because a person has the option of not walking up to stab innocent people. Soldiers firing rubber teargas and bullets at protesters who are throwing rocks and molotov cocktails or even shooting them at them is pretty much what happens anywhere. The Palestinian tactic of walking up to innocent people on the street who are doing nothing but walking and minding their own business, and then stabbing them to death - that is morally worse. If you can't see that, it is because you don't want to see it.

[Bad Dog]

75. Be honest, not selective with the facts.

Israeli forces, on Tuesday, demolished more than 10 Palestinian homes and structures in the village of Khirbet Tana, east of Nablus, where residents have lived in an area declared as an Israeli military “firing zone” for decades.

Ghassan Daghlas, a PA official who monitors settlement activity, told Ma'an News Agency that Israeli bulldozers demolished the structures, claiming they were built illegally, adding that forces had notified several Palestinians in the nearby Beita village of the demolition orders, over the past two days.

http://www.imemc.org/article/74890

Leaving aside the fact that these settlements are illegal. It's not a case of just building the odd house. It's a case of forcibly evicting people from the land they've lived on for generations. It's ongoing.

Read the list of the dead I provided, most Palestinians were killed just for protesting.

Marwan Hisham Barbakh 13 10.10.15 Gaza Died of serious wounds from the previous day when the Israeli forces killed six Palestinian protesters in Gaza and injured dozens more

30 11.10.15 Gaza Killed along with her child in an Israeli airstrike
21. Rahaf Yahya Hassan
2 11.10.15 Gaza Killed along with her mother in an Israeli airstrike.

Women and children killed by Israeli airstrikes. How is that self defence? Why is stabbing someone so terrible but shooting protesters with live ammunition and killing women and children in airstrikes perfectly acceptable?

You're looking at the situation through rose tinted spectacles. Take them off, be honest.

If you don't want to listen to me go to B'Tselem's website. They're Israeli, and they've witnessed this, and they're decent people.

[6chars]

76. people like you see what they want to see

How is airstrikes at Hamas missile batteries self-defense when Hamas intentionally targets civilians? Beats me. Too complex.

Solution, though,

1) Hamas could stop TARGETING civilians.

2) Protestors can stop throwing molotov cocktails, sharp rocks, firing bullets at security forces.

[Bad Dog]

78. You're right, they could just give up any notions of self determination.

Allow themselves to be brutalised every day and accept their status as a neo slave people.

All your photograph shows is that you do not understand the lifestyle of the Bedouin. The same arguments were used against the Native American.

You would rather live in denial than accept the brutality of the occupation. It's easier that way. I prefer dealing with reality no matter how ugly.

I am by nature an optimist. When I visited Palestine recently with a cross-party group of MPs, I went with the hope that the two-state solution was still a possibility, but now I'm not so sure.

On our second day, we reached the town of Hebron in the south of Palestine just as the sun was setting. It is a beautiful place, built from the soft, buttery rock that surrounds it. The sense of history is palpable, it feels like the biblical town you saw in Sunday afternoon films when you were little - there are even donkeys!

As we drove, we passed checkpoints, but we were never stopped. As we reached the centre it dawned on me that something was amiss. It was like a ghost town and where were all the people? Right in the middle of Hebron there is an illegal Israeli settlement of approximately 35 families. To protect the families, the Israeli Defence Force have effectively made the surrounding area a no-go zone for the native Palestinians. (I later found out that our minibus had Israeli plates, that's why we weren't stopped at the checkpoints.)

The area the settlers had chosen was right in the middle of the old town, next to the main market street. Formerly, this was the bustling heart, now all of the shops are boarded up and the market long gone. But there are still Palestinians living above the shops. Overnight, their front doors were welded shut so they could not gain access the street. I know this to be true as our guide was the Sergeant who supervised the work. To get out, the residents have to climb up on to their roof, clamber onto a neighbours' roof and exit onto another street. Imagine doing this is you are elderly, are carrying food or have a baby in a buggy! All this to protect the settlers who illegally decided to occupy their town.

As we walked we were watched by heavily armed soldiers. There was a constant stream of soldiers, out of uniform, jogging up and down the street and, at one point, a pick-up truck packed with youths sped and hurled insults at us. It felt like a very tense environment and made me feel extremely vulnerable - I certainly wouldn't want to be there on my own.

We quickly reached the next checkpoint on foot and decided to go through. It was down a narrow, dark back street. As we emerged out into the other side it was surreal - a bustling city street with cafés, shops and people - lots of people and such a stark contrast. We had now crossed back into the real Palestine. This is what life is like, two parallel worlds, uncomfortably living side-by-side. Reluctantly, we crossed back and got into our minibus. As we drove we saw a young boy, probably about 11-years-old, being marched to the barracks surrounded by five soldiers.

What we witnessed was apparently a common occurrence and in my opinion, is a systematic attempt to cowl the next generation of Palestinians.

As of July 2015, 5,369 Palestinians are in detention, 153 of those are children, and one is a girl. The main reason children are detained is because they have thrown stones at Israeli vehicles. The penalty for this is up to 20 years. Usually, the sentences are one to two months. Because of the occupation, the children are tried in a military court which has a 99.7% conviction rate. To be fair, this ridiculously high rate is largely because the child would be subject to a longer detention if they appealed. However, by pleading guilty they get a criminal record which will likely prevent them getting travel permits in the future. Settler children would always be tried in a civilian court, with a 6.4% conviction rate. This is clear discrimination, and clear example of the two-tier system being operated.

Most children are not actually charged. They are usually detained, roughed up, humiliated and then sent home. Children under 16 years can be detained for two to four days without charge. The soldiers have no obligation to inform them of their rights. They'll see their lawyer for the first time once they are in court, not during detention/interrogation, and remember, most children don't get charged.

So what was the point of that child we saw being marched into the barracks? Let's see it from the Israeli perspective. There are approximately 400,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank (excluding East Jerusalem). The Israeli Defence Force is tasked to protect them and only seven settlers have been killed in the last five years. This should be recognised as a superb military achievement when you consider that the settlers represent illegal occupation of Palestinian land and the settlements are often in remote areas. Strategically, how can Israel keep her people safe? Put very bluntly, there are three options: kill the native population, deport them or intimidate the population into submission. From what I have witnessed, I believe the Israeli military strategy is to get inside the Palestinians heads and break their spirit.

Not all of the children detained are taken off the street, usually soldiers will take them from their homes. If the military were sent in to do this during the day, understandably, there would be a riot, however, doing it at night, creates a huge amount of intimidation, but with no repercussions.

The first the family knows is when they wake up and soldiers and dogs are in their bedroom. The family is then herded into a room, the suspect child will be taken with hands tied, head bagged, thrown on floor of a military vehicle and driven to a military base. Imagine the terror, the confusion, the fear. 63% of children are arrested at night and 58 per cent of children are strip-searched.

There are an average of 1,400 night raids like this per year and all happen less than 2km from Israeli settlements. The majority of detained children are shipped to Israeli prisons. Not only is this a war crime, it makes it almost impossible for their families to visit them because of how difficult it is to get a permit.

In 2012, a British delegation of lawyers led by Baroness Scotland made six recommendations in relation to child detainees:

• Don't arrest children at night
• Let people know their rights, written in Arabic
• Every child must see a lawyer before interrogation
• Parents should be present during interrogation
• There should be an audio-visual documentation of interrogation
• If any of these recommendations are breached, throw out the case

(The last recommendation would mean the others would be more likely to be followed).

I do not think it is realistic to expect the practice of child detainees to stop. However, unless the intimidation and breaches of human rights are prevented, it makes it hard to see how meaningful peace talks can continue between the two states.

What can we personally do to get lasting peace between Palestine and Israel?

I don't believe it is possible to get peace unless Israel stops building settlements in Palestine. They are illegal under international law, they are the justification for 62% of Palestine being under Israeli military rule and they create a two-tier cultural system which I believe is morally wrong.

However, we must recognise that currently, five Israeli ministers are settlers. Settlements won't stop without international pressure. To achieve anything, we need to draw attention to the situation and to that end I would like to see export products produced by settlers being labelled as such. We know where our meat comes from, why can't we know where our dates come from? This information would enable us to make informed choices if we want to buy goods generated from an illegal occupation or not.

As a nation we could fight for Palestine to have the same favourable trading terms with the EU that Israel benefits from. We should also be making a clear stance that we believe the settlements are wrong. Currently there are 17 countries boycotting settlement products, surely we should be the 18th?

With thanks to MAP and Caabu for making this trip possible. Thanks also to Military Court Watch for research for this article.

Sarah Champion is the Labour Member of Parliament for Rotherham

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sarah-champion/palestine-israel-peace_b_8280898.html

As you're very fond of pictures here's a link to some pictures of racist graffiti daubed on the homes of Palestinians by Israeli settlers. I can't post the pictures because they're far too offensive for this website.

https://friendsofpalestine.wordpress.com/resources-and-readings/image-galleries/racist-graffiti-in-hebron/

[shira]

80. Oh sure, Hamas just wants peace & 2 states

That's why they want all Jews dead. Jews they call apes & monkeys. That's why they celebrate these murders & the terrorists committing them.

Because they're so "desperate" for peace & 2 states.

Seriously?

[Bad Dog]

82. Only the occupier can stop the occupation.

Name calling isn't a one way street. I've already posted a link to racist graffiti daubed on Palestinian homes in Hebron.

Hamas has observed several cease fires all of which have been broken by Israel.

The one who isn't remotely interested in peace is Netanyahu, that's why he's creating facts on the ground by continuing to build illegal settlements.

Making peace requires talking to people you don't like. We did it in Northern Ireland. The only reason it's not happening in Israel is because Netanyahu thinks he can get more the way things are. The last Israeli leader who was serious about peace was Yitzhak Rabin which is why he was murdered by Israeli terrorists.

Don't try to justify the brutality of the occupation by blaming the Palestinians. It doesn't wash.

[shira]

84. Which is why Israel has offered the Palestinians their own state multiple times...

The latest in 2008, which Abbas rejected.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-admits-he-rejected-2008-peace-offer-from-olmert/

Their own land.
100% of the W.Bank & Gaza (considering land swaps)
No occupation.
No settlements
Half of Jerusalem
Refugee package
A link between the W.Bank to Gaza.

Rejected by a warmonger.

Those who support Abbas' rejection are the ones against peace & 2 states who support ongoing terror & the murder of innocent random Jews.

[Bad Dog]

88. I don't think your source is objective.

And even it states Abbas was not allowed to see the map. Negotiation requires good faith on both sides. That means transparency. Not a take the money or open the box set up. it seems strange that if the Israelis were offering a package that seems so generous they would deliberately obscure the details. Nobody could negotiate under such conditions.

Meanwhile illegal settlement building goes on apace.

[shira]

90. Of course you don't. Deny, deny...

Abbas said it himself, he walked away.

He could have put Olmert on hold a day or 2 until all his fellow negotiators came to see the terms.

He didn't. He punted.

Don't fool yourself or try fooling anyone else into thinking the Palestinians are "desperate" for a peace deal. They're demonstrably not. In fact, they make themselves clear all the time to their Arab constituents. They hate Jews & want the whole enchilada. These fanatics won't stop until they get their way.

That's not desperation.

That you don't get it goes to show why those like yourself are such a small minority, even within the Democratic Party.

[Bad Dog]

91. I don't know what planet you're living on.

The fact is that the boycott is gaining momentum which is why Cameron is trying to pass laws to stop local authorities observing it. He's got no chance. I very rarely see Israeli produce in the shops, if ever. About five years ago it was quite common.

You honestly expect an Israeli paper to be viewed as an impartial, reliable source? You're having a laugh. I wouldn't expect an Arab paper to be viewed in the same way either.

The fact that the Times of Israel is your only source for this "peace deal" shows how dubious it is.

As always the devil is in the detail and if Israel refuses to divulge the detail then any claims of a peace deal cannot be taken seriously.

You can go off on one all you like,but if you want to be taken seriously you need credible sources, and real peace treaties. Some of us are capable of thinking for ourselves. And I'd rather trust the observations of a Rotherham MP than what you've been spouting.

[shira]

94. My source is channel 10 in Israel where Abbas was interviewed & admitted it.....

Here's another article with the video:
http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/11/18/abbas-admits-rejecting-israeli-peace-deal-in-2008-video/

Now do you require more than 100% proof?

[Bad Dog]

96. No I require credible evidence.

Any Israeli news source is not credible unless backed up by one that's a bit more impartial. What seems to have shot right over your head is that this "deal" is completely opaque. Abbas was not allowed to look at the map, he was not allowed to see the details. That means it was a non deal. You make all these grandiose claims about what was going to be delivered but without something in writing to back it up it's meaningless.

If Israel was serious about peace they would have been transparent. They weren't. Clearly the whole exercise was an attempt to give the impression that there was a peace deal. It didn't work, they're not fooling anyone.

Just because you and your Media say something doesn't make it so. This isn't a shouting contest, it's supposed to be an exchange of ideas. I'm not some lackey you can browbeat. If you want to be taken seriously you need to start dealing with reality.

You have not provided "100 proof," far from it.

[shira]

97. It was on Israeli TV. It's on video. Jewish media worldwide has reported on this.

And all you seem to have in response is what? "Jews lie"? Denial?

What gives?

[Bad Dog]

98. That's not my response at all.

And there's no need for you to adopt such an imperious tone. You're not going to win any hearts and minds that way. What you're asking is ridiculous. If there really was a deal in the offing this story would not be confined to Israeli Media, your persecution complex notwithstanding.

Your own source said Abbas was not allowed to view the map, was not allowed to see the details, had to sign sight unseen. I wouldn't buy a used car under those circumstances, and you're expecting someone to sign away his country's future. You really are having a laugh.

This is something whipped up for domestic consumption so you can fool yourselves you really do want to make peace while you're actually building illegal settlements. If you want to believe it go ahead, but don't expect others to get caught up in your fantasy.

[shira]

99. Abbas admitted it on Israeli TV. The video still exists. You're denying reality.

If you want other sources outside Israel...
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/juliankossoff/100020271/a-new-state-of-play-in-the-middle-east/
http://www.aljazeera.com/palestinepapers/2011/01/2011122114239940577.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-mideast-deal-that-could-have-been/2011/10/25/gIQAxaREKM_story.html
https://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/11/01/174779.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-israel-abbas-olmert-idUSBRE89D0G420121014

Abbas even acknowledged Olmert was serious.

[Bad Dog]

100. None of which is important.

What you refuse to address is that Abbas was not allowed to see the final map which redrew the occupied territories.

Why was that? If it was a genuine deal he should have seen the map.

Would you buy a used car, if you were not allowed to inspect the vehicle, based solely on the word of the salesman?

The NI peace talks were based on transparency. That's why they were successful.

[shira]

101. Abbas saw a map, if you read any of those articles. He could've called on his experts...

....to come over and examine it.

Instead, he rejected the deal out of hand.

The NI talks weren't based on transparency as much as they were based first on NI first giving up violence & terror. The Palestinians won't even do that before negotiations.

[Bad Dog]

102. You don't understand the NI peace process at all.

Your sentence, "they were based first on NI first giving up violence & terror" shows as much. I think you mean the IRA, but that's not clear, and you don't appreciate the role Loyalist paramilitaries had in this. Nobody gave up anything, a ceasefire was called. That was all. If, as you claim, the IRA had to pledge an end to violence and terror before talks could start they would never have started.

You're contradicting your own sources. The Times of Israel states Abbas would not sign the treaty because he could not see the map. And this treaty was drawn up by a man who is currently serving time for fraud.

There's a lot of muddled thinking going on here, and I really don't have time for it. Once a conversation descends into farce it's time to bail out. I've got stuff to do, we're playing Stoke today.

Now I'm going to collapse this thread.

[shira]

103. The IRA stopped hostilities, the PA/Hamas has never done that.

What Abbas saw was a hand-drawn "napkin map".

But you're right, this is a waste of time. First you were in full denial, then you changed your argument. Now that you've been proven wrong again - I suspect your argument would change again.

Enjoy the game.

[6chars]

77. evicting people from the land they've lived on for generations

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[Bradical79]

71. Confused by the BBC article

Is the stabbing related to the other attacks? Is it all thought to be coordinated or result/reaction of something?