Thousands turn out for Clark County Democratic Convention - Sanders gets more delegates than Clinton

[tomm2thumbs]

Last edited Sat Apr 2, 2016, 10:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: ABC News13

Hillary Clinton may have come out on top in February, but she didn't win all of Nevada's delegates. That's why Bernie Sanders’ supporters had to make their presence known on Saturday, to claim their portion of the delegate pie.

Clinton 2390 delegates.
Sanders 2958 delegates.

<snip>

"In the end, we're all Democrats and I think that this kind of good-natured competition is really important to work out our ideas of what it means to be a Democrat," said Nevada Assemblywoman Heidi Swank.

It's more complicated than casting a ballot, but delegates say they understand the process is just as important.



Read more: http://www.ktnv.com/news/thousands-turn-out-for-clark-county-democratic-convention

---

ADDING LINK TO PRIOR THREAD THAT WAS LOCKED BUT HAD ALL KINDS OF INFO:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141400573

and more news

http://lasvegassun.com/news/2016/apr/02/sanders-wins-most-delegates-at-clark-county-conven/

[tomm2thumbs]

1. •••Also link to thread that was locked for more info •••

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141400573

in the interest of fairness

[pnwmom]

41. WA Post and Jon Ralston say Hillary is still ahead.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/04/03/a-scrappy-sanders-campaign-narrows-the-nevada-delegate-count-six-weeks-after-the-caucuses/

Jon Ralston, a veteran Nevada reporter, said on his blog that Saturday’s action is “expected to switch two delegates to Sanders, giving Clinton an 18 to 17 lead in Nevada, but that is still pending the results of the state convention next month, when those 12 slots could again change. … Ah, the caucus process.”

Clinton spokesman Brian Fallon emphasized that the results could change again and noted some irregularities in the process on Saturday. Regardless, he said, Clinton still has more delegates in Nevada than Sanders.

Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver said his team believes Sanders has at least narrowed the gap to a single delegate — and he raised the possibility that his candidate could actually come out of Nevada with more delegates than Clinton when all is said and done.

[PatrynXX]

61. they always complain the Caucus system (the American System) is dead and flawed

when it's against them. But fully great when they are ahead even by a few votes like Iowa. At least with Iowa it's within the margin of error. So there is an excuse.

[pnwmom]

62. The caucus system isn't the 'American system." Primaries are used by many more states.

Caucuses are a relic that should be tossed in the garbage heap once and for all. They're the old "smoke filled rooms" without the smoke.

[PatrynXX]

63. when when you wanna toss the Constitution that'll be really interesting

Whats wrong with with the Founders wanted?? I'll never understand people. Calling AMERICAN traditions Relics

[pnwmom]

64. The Constitution was written in the horse and buggy days. We don't need to elect

delegates to caucus for us anymore. We can do the voting ourselves, in primaries.

Only about 5% of the voters in my state jump the hurdles required for the first level of the caucuses --even fewer for the higher levels. The primary system is much more inclusive and representative of the will of the people.

In my state here are just some of the people who couldn't caucus and couldn't qualify absentee:

People who live hours away from their caucus location
Students in out of state colleges
Parents who didn't want to drag their children along and don't have babysitters
Anyone who wanted a secret ballot -- not in front of their spouse, parent, or employer
Anyone who had other things to do for several hours on a Saturday morning (having a job was the only excuse)'
Anyone who wanted to vote but not to sit in a crowded room for several hours
Anyone didn't have the stamina for the long meeting but didn't consider himself "disabled."
Anyone who lacks the English skills -- we had no translators at ours.

The Constitution was meant to be a living document. If you're an "originalist' like Scalia, you're in the wrong party.

[Capt.Rocky300]

2. "Good-natured competition.....

I saw a YouTube video of a Hillary supporter calling a Bernie supporter "A fucking bitch". That's good natured?

[tomm2thumbs]

3. 'good-natured' Clinton Campaign on Obama "MAKE HIM UN-AMERICAN"

I don't know who should be held more accountable for 'good natured', a single supporter, or an entire campaign for the highest office of the land, but either way, I think the 'tone' debate is won by Sanders for sure

[dogman]

6. And people wonder where the "Birther" nonsense started.

[tomm2thumbs]

9. home-grown

[FailureToCommunicate]

10. Has this already been, or, should you post this, as an OP?

Seems mighty relevant.

[tomm2thumbs]

11. you may, I have posted in videos but this site no longer sends those to greatest page on home page

I think they want to limit visibility of videos - ironic since videos are often the most telling of reality

I remember someone posted a GuardianUK link to the story of the Obama photo in what appeared to be muslim costume being sent to Drudge Report by campaign... there are other examples out there, like Reverend Wright, 60 Minutes interview with Hillary about his faith, etc

[FailureToCommunicate]

12. Ah, now I found it. From several days ago... WOW!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017347381

Thanks Tomm!

From the Atlantic article:

"Clinton was already under attack for an attitude of “inevitability”—the charge being that she imperiously viewed the primary process as a ratifying formality and would not deign to compete for what she felt she was owed. Penn’s memo makes clear that what she intended to project was “leadership” and “strength,” and that he had carefully created an image for her with that in mind. He believed that he had identified a winning coalition and knew which buttons to press to mobilize it:

1) Start with a base of women.
a. For these women you represent a breaking of barriers
b. The winnowing out of the most competent and qualified in an unfair, male dominated world
c. The infusion of a woman and a mother’s sensibilities into a world of war and neglect
2) Add on a base of lower and middle class voters
a. You see them; you care about them
b. You were one of them, it is your history
c. You are all about their concerns (healthcare, education, energy, child care, college etc.)
d. Sense of patriotism, Americana
3) Play defensively with the men and upper class voters
a. Strength to end the war the right way
b. Connect on the problems of the global economy, economics
c. Foreign policy expert
d. Unions
Contest the black vote at every opportunity. Keep him pinned down there.
Organize on college campuses. We may not be number 1 there, but we have a lot of fans—more than enough to sustain an organization in every college."

[tomm2thumbs]

14. you might create an OP in GoodReads leading to the Atlantic article and include the video as addt'l

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/09/the-front-runner-s-fall/306944/


I like to post an original once and don't want to create the notion in OP's that I'm spamming the website as I think that is not how best to get the message out, but obviously that article is important and a good read.

[me b zola]

4. Can you imagine if anyone representing Bernie had used such language?!

Vile.

[bvar22]

43. Can you imagine if Bernie attacked this young lady for asking a question?

Greenpeace Activist

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/im-the-greenpeace-activist-who-asked-hillary-clinton-to-pledge-to-reject-fossil-fuel-contributions-at-the-purchase-ny-campaign-rally/

Hillary Clinton's campaign and the Super PAC supporting her have received more than $4.5 million from the fossil fuel industry.

There was only one BULLY in that video, and it wasn't the young Greenpeace activist, who was polite and dignified. Hillary has just displayed that she does NOT have the temperament or judgement to be our president.

Hillary OWES this young lady a public apology for her unprovoked attack, and lying about her being with the Sander's campaign.

[me b zola]

56. That was difficult to watch

Hillary had her finger in her face yelling at her. I just cannot imagine someone treating one of my grandchildren like that.

I agree that Hillary owes Eva an apology. Just disgraceful behavior.

[murielm99]

57. This has already been disproven as a lie.

Why do you keep posting it? Is Bernie going to give back the money he took from fossil fuel employees, too?

[bvar22]

60. Please post a link to where you say it has been debunked.

Did Hillary attack that young lady, raise her voice, wag her finger in her face, and call her a Bernie supporter? Is that the "lie" that has been disproved?....because I've seen the video tape of Hillary unhinged by that small girl. Not very presidential.

Please don't link to the fantasy land of the Hillary Group either. I have found that group to be unreliable.

[murielm99]

72. The story has been posted over and over,

here and elsewhere. Do your own research.

[bvar22]

74. Knew you didn't have a credible link,

because none exists outside the fantasy world of the Hillary Group.

Hillary gt a "Pants-on-Fire" rating from Politifacts for denying she and her superPac received $43 Million from the Oil and Gas Industry.

[murielm99]

79. All you people know how to do is taunt.

This is a right-wing tactic. Make us document and prove things, make us spend time on things that are easy for you to find for yourselves. Then, while we are occupied, move on to the next lie. I am not falling for it.

I repeat: Do your own research.

And the fantasy world is in the Bernie camp. He will not be the nominee.

[bvar22]

81. I provided a link, and cited facts in the first post of this sub thread.

It is YOU who provides no links or support for YOUR opinion and vague claims based on....nothing,
which makes you not very credible.

I've done my work, and showed it in my post.
You have done no work, just blathered some unsupported vapor.

[840high]

16. They just might be worse than

Trump supporters.

[JoFerret]

49. There are crazy ill-mannered ugly supporters of both candidates

Neither candidate can be responsible for every one of them. But they can set a tone. (Drumpf would be the best and clearest example of failure to set that tone this season)

Hard to count who has the most ugly/ deranged/vile supporters although have to say that the "BernieBros" and "Bernie or Bust" types seem legion. But there are plenty of uncivil people supporting both candidates. 'Twas ever thus in politics.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

5. When Bernie won our district the Hillary people stormed out in anger before any could sign up.

[Cryptoad]

7. whahhahhhehehabhabhhhabbbbbaaahaaaa

we been cheated again,,,,, im going to tell!

[StoneCarver]

19. Cryptoad

I am getting tied of you. Please add to the discussion or leave. You have been on many post trashing Bernie supporters. Add to it or leave. I am starting to wonder if you're a troll!
Stonecarver

[ChairmanAgnostic]

22. Hilliarious, heh?

Not.

[A Simple Game]

58. I for one think cryptoad is one of the funnier Hillary supporters. Be nice it's not

everyone that will expose themselves as an uneducated fool for the public's amusement on the intertubes.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

67. U B 40

Times smarterer

[Cryptoad]

28. GLad to know there hasn't been any Clinton Bashing going on here.

[JoFerret]

45. Just the usual run-of-the-mill Bernie Bro style fauxtrage

Plus the trotting out of stale GOP talking points.

It will soon be over when Hillary clinches the nomination.

Differences of opinion are fine. But the level of vilification is ridiculous.

Will be good when she's finally got the numbers. Shouldn't be too long now. Hang tight.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

59. You forgot the heavy dip of smugness....

BTW: The GOP doesn't claim Hillary is too far to the Right.

[Thor_MN]

52. Trolls seldom get to thousands of posts.

Sometimes they get to hundreds before imploding.

Snark is normal during primaries. One either grows a thick skin or one does not survive.

Welcome to DU, BTW.

[ish of the hammer]

20. Winning by any means is not a trait to be encouraged when

You might need some help later.
Whahhahhahhahhaabahhaahhabbaa...
Clinton will never get my vote, in the primary or the general.

[JoFerret]

46. How wise - how petulant and privileged

Maybe you can afford to live with Trump or Kasich or some other clown as president. Most of us - sensibly will choose not too.

Am wondering why you are posting on this (Democratic Underground) board. Did you get lost somewhere on the interwebs?

[ish of the hammer]

54. you make too many assumptions, friend.

I don't want my children and grands dying ugly deaths so that the masters of the universe can continue eating this planet.
It's existential, and I have 153 million reasons not to believe a word either Clinton says.
If you can't see that, than nothing I can say will convince you and I'm too old to give a shyte to try.

[ish of the hammer]

55. what? the oceans are NOT rising? resource wars are NOT increasing?

climate and war refugees are NOT pouring over borders?
and somehow I'm to line up and vote for a neocon, wall street enabler because of my fear of a pipsqueak like kasich?
100 years from now, people will read the history books (if there are any -books or people) and envy Stalinist Russia DURING world war 2.
everybody talks about Godwin's Law, forgetting Murphy's Law entirely.
now I'm done - thanks

[Major Hogwash]

8. Wow, that's a difference of 568 delegates.

Amazing.

[Bodych]

13. CONFUSED: What Does It Mean?

I saw these two comments at the Las Vegas Sun site. Are they true?

Q: Does this mean Sanders now has more pledged Delegates from Nevada to the Democratic National Convention? We'd also be interested in a little explanation of why, but first we need to know the answer to that question.

A: If all the delegates selected today show up to the State Convention, then the ratios will hold and Sanders will win more Delegates from Nevada than Hillary, so yes he will have won. State convention is in May.

ME: The "thousands" of delegates in Clark Cty have nothing to do with the delegate counts we see in corporate media, right?

Thanks.

[SoapBox]

15. Me too...what's the bottom line?

[tomm2thumbs]

18. I'll see if I can find the post

and I'll repost in this note, but it may mean Nevada will show more delegates for Bernie than Hillary in the end, by a a few.

* first grab:
It’s unclear at this time exactly what this means statewide or how many extra delegates Sanders will pick up from the state convention. There are 35 delegates total for Nevada and 25 are rewarded proportionally based on caucus results. Twelve are awarded through county conventions. Sanders may pick up as few as just one or two extra delegates, or it could give Sanders as many as 10 extra delegates in the national convention.

[JoFerret]

47. The delegate count may change but the actual votes from Nevadans has not

It's all just political shenanigans and an excellent reason to get rid of the caucus system.

[JoFerret]

51. Here are some stories

Not entirely unbiased(!) but give you some perspective.

http://www.dailynewsbin.com/

[anigbrowl]

53. Right

This shouldn't even be in LBN because it's county-level rather than national news. When all the numbers are added up this may slightly alter the distribution of Nevada's 43 pledged delegates for the national convention.

[zentrum]

17. K&R!!!!!!

[SunSeeker]

21. Looks like Bernie is picking up delegating stealing dirty tricks from Ted Cruz.

As reported by one DUer there:

There was an email that went out that said if you checked in early (Friday night)...

You wouldn't have to go into the convention as you would still be counted among the pledged delegates for your candidate. I heard a lot of Clinton's folks likely fell for that and didn't show up. The line for early check in (on Friday evening) was about a 2 + hour wait that started at 5pm PST and was supposed to go till 9pm PST. If some of those people were never told, they might have simply not come to the convention today. I got the same email, but since I want to try to go all the way to the National Convention, the Misses and I attended. Glad we did. Dirty tricks and all.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110789068#post5


Sounds like the shit Ted Cruz pulled to take the majority of delegates in Louisiana even though he lost that state by a wide margin.

It is alarming to see Sanders supporters cheering what amounts to election fraud and the subversion of democracy. Hillary carried Clark County, a very diverse county, by 10 points.

[chwaliszewski]

23. Get your facts straight

That email was not sent out by Bernie's people. But don't take my word for it.
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2016/apr/02/sanders-wins-most-delegates-at-clark-county-conven/

And there's this also.

http://epiqly.com/videos/did-bernie-sanders-win-nevada-5-fast-facts-you-need-to-know/

[SunSeeker]

30. Clark County Credentials Chair Christine Kramer was "Bernie people."

None of your links establish what you claim, other than that Kramer is a Sanders supporter.

As noted by the well-repected Ralston Reports:

The Sanders campaign would need a huge shift in Clark County, where Clinton won by almost 10 percentage points, to get those.

The issue is Clinton protecting that lead because unfilled slots allow for some mischief if the Sanders folks can pack the convention. That's why who gets in -- i.e. who gets credentialed -- is so important.

https://www.ralstonreports.com/blog/bernie-vs-hillary-boils-over-nevada-clark-convention

[LadyHawkAZ]

25. Coin toss: "She won. Deal with it!"

Card flip: "She won. Deal with it!"
Six hour lines in the heat to vote: "She won. Deal with it!"
State called with 1% reporting and voters still in line: "She won. Deal with it!"
Party affiliations altered: "She won. Deal with it!"
Her supporters don't bother to show up at the convention: "OMG FRAUD!!!"

[SunSeeker]

31. Hillary won Clark County by 10 percentage points, due in large part to people of color.

Those people's votes have been negated by the Sanders shenanigans of Saturday. It is shameful.

[LadyHawkAZ]

33. I was at the NLV caucus

In one precinct down the hall they were trying to shut Sanders supporters out by telling them they were late and their vote would not be counted. Our precinct had what appeared to be a paid Hillary staffer. Don't even talk to me about shenanigans.

It's not our fault that her supporters couldn't be bothered to show up.

[SunSeeker]

35. Your happiness with subverting the votes of the NV caucus goers is disgusting.

The shenanigans of Saturday negated the votes of caucus goers, particulary people of color. Conflicting instructions made it appear that people did not need to come on Saturday if they checked in on Friday. It is not a matter of people "not bothering to show up." It is a matter of people being given the wrong instructions. And Sanders supporters packing the hall early and making it virtually impossible for anyone else to get in. Police had to be called.

[LadyHawkAZ]

37. You've got lots to say then about the original shenanigans?

I'd love to hear it.

I was supposed to be a Sanders delegate; thanks to a move to another state, that wound up not happening. However, the Sanders campaign still sent me a text on Wed. to verify if I would be there or not. Either your candidate's office dropped the ball there or they had very unenthused delegates; you choose.

[SunSeeker]

38. Wow. Thanks for documenting Sanders tried to bring in out of state delegates.

[LadyHawkAZ]

39. Whaaaaa.....???

I was LIVING IN VEGAS in Feb.

Caucus date was Feb. 20. I attended.

I moved OUT OF VEGAS the last day of Feb.

Ergo, I did not attend the convention.

What in the actual fuck are you talking about?

[SunSeeker]

40. You just admitted they contacted you to come Saturday even though you are out of state.

I wonder how many are in the same boat as you and came anyways.

[LadyHawkAZ]

42. They weren't aware of the move

although now I'm wondering about such a large number of Clinton delegates turning out to be no-shows...

So if we're done with you trying to play derail, I'm waiting to hear your denunciation of the original shenanigans, and whether you've chosen to blame the campaign for failing to notify their delegates, or their lack of enthusiasm.

[hughee99]

27. Election fraud and the subversion of democracy for what? Trying to steal delegates? n/t

[SunSeeker]

32. Yes. It negates the vote of the caucus goers, who chose Hillary. nt

[hughee99]

34. That sounds very serious. I'm not sure I could bring myself to vote for someone

Last edited Sun Apr 3, 2016, 10:16 PM - Edit history (1)

who has actively tried to thwart the will of the voters. Could you?

If not, maybe we're both going to have to hope neither Sanders or Clinton wins the primary, but I don't think that's likely to happen.

[JoFerret]

48. It's a Pyrrhic "victory"

and nothing to crow about.

But it is time to do away with the inherently undemocratic caucus system.

[JoFerret]

50. Not a pretty sight. But don't worry

it will soon be all over and we can start to focus on the #GOP

[Darb]

24. Mob rule.

Congrats.

[SunSeeker]

36. Exactly. Like what Dubya supporters did in Florida in 2000.

And what Ted Cruz did in Louisiana--stealing the majority of the delegates after losing the primary by a wide margin.

[Darb]

65. That's how they win all the caucuses,

by storming the gate, so to speak. As a Hillary supporter, I wouldn't go to one of those for all the tea in China. Just gonna have to wait until the primary states get it done.

[SunSeeker]

69. What working mom (Hillary's base) would have time for that 8-hour ordeal?

Those caucuses amount to voter suppression.

[hughee99]

66. Or like Clinton tried in 2008...

Clinton targets pledged delegates

"Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign intends to go after delegates whom Barack Obama has already won in the caucuses and primaries if she needs them to win the nomination.

This strategy was confirmed to me by a high-ranking Clinton official on Monday. And I am not talking about superdelegates, those 795 party big shots who are not pledged to anybody. I am talking about getting pledged delegates to switch sides.

What? Isn’t that impossible? A pledged delegate is pledged to a particular candidate and cannot switch, right?

Wrong."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2008/02/clinton-targets-pledged-delegates-008583#ixzz44ouC887Q
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

[SunSeeker]

68. Hillary won more votes in 2008 and now. Sanders is subverting democracy. nt

[hughee99]

70. So it was okay when Clinton tried to flip delegates then?

And Clinton only got more votes because, unlike the other candidates who dropped out of the MI primary for violating DNC rules, Clinton stayed in and ran essentially unopposed. Despite this, she still got only 54% of the vote with many people showing up to vote for "uncommitted" rather than for her.

As opposed to trying to flip attending delegates as Clinton did in 2008, this time, some of Clinton's delegates didn't attend. Is that really Sanders' fault?

[SunSeeker]

73. Hillary didn't send in mobs to block opposing voters, like team Sanders did in Clark County.

The shenanigans by Sanders people on Saturday were beyond the pale. Fortunately, it papers it will not affect the actual delegate count much if at all. But it did expose just how unscrupulous Sanders people could be.

[hughee99]

75. So you're okay with trying to thwart "democracy" (or as democratic as a caucus can be, anyway),

it's just an issue for you when candidates you don't support do it. I knew that's where this conversation was going to end up.

"It's different when Hillary did it because..." is essentially saying you're okay with the concept of screwing people out of their vote, as long as it's done in a manner YOU approve of. Which manner do you approve of? Apparently, whichever ones your candidate uses.

For the record, I'm not a fan of what happened here OR what Clinton tried in 2008.

[SunSeeker]

76. I don't like any caucuses. I think they suppress the vote of working people. nt

[hughee99]

77. I agree on that, but you called this "election fraud and the subversion of democracy"

and a Sanders "dirty trick". That's not because you don't like caucuses. It's because you have an issue with these kind of shenanigans... when it's not your candidate.

[SunSeeker]

78. Hillary never pulled the shenanigans that went down Saturday.

Last edited Tue Apr 5, 2016, 01:54 AM - Edit history (1)

If she did I would not approve of it either. I don't know how anyone who believes in democracy could approve of the ugliness that went down Saturday in Clark County.

It was not just a matter of caucuses. Saturday was not a caucus, it was a jacked up convention that was packed with people who weren't supposed to be there, preventing Dems who were supposed to be there from entering. Police had to be called. Many Hillary supporters got incorrect instructions that they didn't have to attend Saturday if they registered Friday. It took 11 hours to accomplish what should have taken only a few minutes.

Then, Sanders people crowed about grabbing the majority of state delegates for Clark County even though Hillary won Clark County by 10%. Hillary never did anything like that --now or in 2008. The whole episode made me realize many Sanders supporters (certainly those present at Clark County) don't care about Democrats or even democracy -- they just want their glorious socialist revolution, and they don't care how they get it.

[hughee99]

80. That's true.

Hillary used a different technique to try to thwart the will of the voters. So as I said, you're okay with the voters getting screwed, as long as it's done the way CLINTON did it. You can save your outrage about the integrity of the process for someone who is willing to overlook your double standard.

That's the thing about standing by principles rather than deciding what's right and wrong based on whose ox is being gored, I don't find myself compelled to complain about one attempt to thwart the will of the voters and defend a different one with a flimsy "it was different when MY candidate did it because <insert irrelevant distinction here>".

If BOTH candidates were attempting to undo the will of the voters, there's no reason BOTH can't be wrong about doing it. I'll give you this distinction though, I didn't see any proof (yet) that the Sanders campaign itself coordinated an effort to mess with the votes of any delegates. Hillary's campaign in 2008 admitted to it. If you want a distinction between the two, there's one that actually matters (with respect to the candidate's intent), but that one doesn't work in your favor so I'm sure that will be "different because <insert irrelevant distinction here>".

[Skwmom]

26. VERY interesting info at this lilnk

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/1509733/full_content

[Cryptoad]

29. Wow ,,, I had a post hidden for even

mentioning this..... Thx for getting teh truth thru.

[JoFerret]

44. NB: More delegates. But not more votes

Wtg to disenfranchise the voters of Nevada.

[Lodestar]

71. Such 'yesterday' weaponry. Don't they know the new and improved

death to the world weaponry is going on in space?

Actually I'm sure even that is old news...