Israel Demolishes Homes Of 3 Palestinian Attackers

[Purveyor]

Source: ASSOCIATED PRESS

By The Associated Press

Posted Apr. 4, 2016 at 9:23 AM
Updated at 10:07 AM

JERUSALEM (AP) Israeli security forces demolished the West Bank homes of three Palestinians early Monday who killed an Israeli officer and seriously wounded another in Jerusalem in February, the military said.

In February's attack outside Jerusalem's Old City, according to Israeli authorities, three Palestinian men in their early 20's drew rifles and knives and attacked two female officers during a security check, killing a 19-year-old officer. They were killed by Israeli officers at the scene.

Israel argues that home demolitions are an effective tool to deter attacks, but critics say the tactic amounts to collective punishment.

Also Monday, the military reported an Israeli soldier was stabbed and wounded in central Israel, and that forces were searching for the attacker, but later said it was checking the possibility that it was a false report.

Read more: http://www.telegram.com/news/20160404/israel-demolishes-homes-of-3-palestinian-attackers

[hollysmom]

1. business as usual.

[COLGATE4]

2. Yep. Innocent Israelis getting stabbed for no conceivable

reason.

[hollysmom]

4. punishing families for crimes of one member of the family - straight out of Colony.

Over the years, I feel that the way things are handled makes them worse not better for israelis. I have come to the conclusion that peace is not the goal, separation is what is wanted. Destroying the houses has gone on for a long time and does not work. it seems to only make more terrorists.

[COLGATE4]

5. Hard to find a deterrent for someone who wants to be

a martyr. There is however no reliable report indicating that this practice does not encourage some would-be terrorists to reconsider because, while not valuing their own lives they may be dissuaded by the thought of having the house destroyed and relatives put out on the street. It's a nasty business but it's meant to deal with a even nastier situation. There is no reason innocent Israeli citizens should subjected to random, senseless and often fatal attacks while innocently going about their daily lives.

[sulphurdunn]

8. Deterrent my ass.

Civilized people do not punish the innocent for the sins of the guilty. Furthermore, Israeli terrorist settlers who murder Palestinians are seldom punished, nor are the homes of their families ever demolished. The hypocrisy with which Zionist ethno-supremacists casually rationalize the dehumanization of Palestinians is morally repugnant. Israelis steal their land, destroy their homes, murder their children, terrorize them with an army of occupation and kill them by the thousands, then have the effrontery to claim victimization and retaliation in self-defense when their victims strike back.

[Leontius]

15. These fucking families aren't innocent

They cheer and encourage these POS terrorists and wonder why people don't cry for them when the piper shows up outside their door.

[cpwm17]

16. So you agree with Donald Trump's fascism

and you also believe that the Palestinians must obey their masters, the illegal Israeli occupation forces, because that is what Americans would do if foreign forces had a self-declared right to steal our land and resources, and treat us like shit.

[Cheese Sandwich]

17. That's sick.

I swear some liberals are just as bad as some conservatives.

[cpwm17]

18. I wouldn't call them liberals.

Here's some viewing pleasure for the local fascists:

[Marrah_G]

21. In my opinion your world view is a bit skewed

That is the most polite way I can respond to your comments.

[sulphurdunn]

26. "These Fucking Families"

That's one hell of a glittering generality. Your argument is predicated on the useful myth that Palestinian parents jump around with pom-poms as they cheer their children on to commit suicide by murdering innocent Jews who have never done anything to them and are doing nothing but minding their own business because these rabid, sub-human terrorist parents hate Jews for no other reason than that they are Jews. Sorry. No sale.

[LanternWaste]

32. Your sentiment is irrational.

Your sentiment is irrational. Cheering is a crime, nor is it indicative of any particular guilt. And to be honest, I don't think anyone in the region wonders if anyone cries for them... regardless of its irrelevance.

[LeftishBrit]

54. If there's evidence that the family members colluded - then put them on trial

Punishing people just for being part of the same family is unjust and wrong.

[leftynyc]

23. Interesting

Your words "Civilized people do not punish the innocent for the sins of the guilty" - perhaps you can point out your outrage at INNOCENT civilians getting stabbed almost daily in Israel. I'm sure your outrageous outrage covers that and there are posts of yours puking about it. I'll wait.

[sulphurdunn]

27. Your argument seems to be predicated

on the premise that all Palestinians who harm Jews are guilty of terrorism, but any Jew who harms a Palestinian is an innocent acting in self-defense. At an even more primal and irrational level, your kind of thinking must assume that Jewish lives are far more precious than Palestinian lives.

[leftynyc]

29. No - not at all

I want to see where you're consistent and, unsurprisingly, you wish to change the subject. How pathetically predictable.

[sulphurdunn]

31. Insults are a poor substitute

for rebuttals. I assume you either don't know that or don't care. I'm also assuming you either don't know what has been going on over there since 1948, don't care, or believe a lot of nonsense about it. Israeli Jews murder Palestinians almost daily and no one much gives a shit and hardly anyone hears about it, but when Palestinians kill Jews the world is treated to a propaganda chorus of wailing, gnashing of teeth and pious rationalizations for disproportionate reprisals. That is pathetic.

[leftynyc]

35. And I see you're going

to stick with the hypocrisy angle. Yes, I do know what's going on there, probably a lot better than you do as I have friends and family there and I visit there myself.

Israeli Jews murder Palestinians almost daily? In whose world? Let me guess, you're an avid reader of Counterpunch? One day you'll ask yourself why the Palestinians have practically no support in the US. One day - but not today. Now don't forget to say ALL AMERICANS ARE TOO STUPID TO KNOW BETTER. That's surely a winner argument - as long as you want to pretend the the gazans didn't vote in terrorists as their leaders and pretend that daily stabbings of Israeli's (and an American a few weeks ago) aren't really happening.

You sound just like all the others who think they're doing the Palestinians a favor by treating them like brain dead children who simply can't control themselves or their children and all you're doing is keeping them from sitting down and hammering out an agreement with the Israelis - that's the ONLY thing that will improve their lives. But better they listen to the likes of you who just maintain if they would suffer just a little while longer, you and your pals will figure out how to get rid of those dastardly Israelis and all will be sunshine and rainbows. THAT is what's pathetic.

[sulphurdunn]

37. Do your friends and family

live in the West Bank? If you have a stake in that society it is even more likely that know and don't care what they are doing to other people in their colonization of their land. It's always the same isn't it? It's the victim's fault. If those Palestinian monsters would just knuckle under and behave, acknowledge their inferiority and powerlessness, life would be so much better for them. If you weren't so blind and arrogant from your sense of entitlement to other peoples' property you'd be ashamed to make arguments like that. Maybe Zionists make arguments like yours because they secretly are ashamed and are to shameless to admit it.

[leftynyc]

38. I understand

the reason you and your fellow travelers are getting nowhere is that you ONLY think of the Palestinians as victims here. THAT's your problem - you give blanket support to TERRORISM because of who is being killed. The stabbings aren't happening in the west bank so I'm not sure why you think it's important to know where my people live. I'm ashamed of nothing - Israel has always defended itself and I've always supported that position. You want to reward terrorism - that's never going to happen. Now what?

[cpwm17]

40. The stabbing in the OP did happen in the illegally occupied West Bank

where those "security forces" had no right to be.

I know you consider the Palestinians far inferior to Jews. That's why you can't relate to them as human beings. You believe the Palestinians must know their place and accept their lower status without complaint.

Americans would never accept being treated like the Palestinians - never. Fuck anyone that think Israel's fascist behavior is appropriate.

[sulphurdunn]

41. Now is the time

for Israel to end the occupation of the West Bank, end the blockade of Gaza, remove its West Bank settlements and return to its pre-1967 borders. That will go a long way to ending the terrorism, yours and theirs.

[leftynyc]

42. Riiiiggghhhht

So the Israeli's should unilaterally decide to reward terrorism in the hopes it may stop violence? And why on earth should I believe hamas and the rest of the Palestinians will give up violence? And why the fuck should they get continual do-overs when they should have taken the state offered to them in 1948? NOPE. Sorry, the losers in a war they start don't get to negotiate terms. Now is NOT the time to give in to terrorism. NEVER is the time. Try bashing the Palestinian leaders who have let their people down over and over and over and over again - you may get a smidge more credibility.

[sulphurdunn]

44. Well,

if a two state solution won't work for you, how about creating one nation with liberty and justice for all? It is not a novel idea. The Palestinians might go for it if the Israelis abandoned the folly of an exclusive Jewish state with a lot of non-Jewish second class citizens. It's that or a return to the old boarders. Those are the only viable options whether you like it or not, because 5 million Jews cannot keep 5 million non-Jews ghettoized, blockaded and occupied forever. It just ain't gonna happen.

[leftynyc]

46. Where did I say a two

state solution is bad? No - I just said that Israel shouldn't unilaterally do anything without the Palestinians negotiating in good faith. And forget the one state solution - that's never going to happen. The Israeli's see quite well how Jews are treated in all the Muslim countries and aren't morons and wont live under the thumb of imans and mullahs. The Palestinians can try by actually punishing terrorists and not giving them a parade, by now throwing people they claim are working with the Israeli's off buildings. The leaders can start by stopping the theft of all aid money to buy weapons and build tunnels. But you want to reward terrorism and that's NEVER going to happen. Shrug - it's the Palestinians that will continue to suffer far worse than the Israeli's.

[Bohemianwriter]

119. So when IDF kills 2000 people...

on Gaza - 500 of them kids, creating entire neighbourhoods into ashes, it's self defense against terrorists.

When a home made missiles hits a settlement full of armed settlers, it's terrorism.

I get it!

Only one people is on the right, and one people are terrorists who deserved the American made missiles dropped on their heads!

[leftynyc]

120. Tell hamas to stop

shooting rockets into southern Israel and Israel wont have to defend itself. You seem to think Israel should just let the terrorists have their way, let them shoot as many rockets into Israel as they wish and Israel should just take it. Never going to happen. Not sure what the gazans thought was going to happen when they elected bloodthirsty terrorists as their leaders but again, it's the Palestinian leadership that gets their own killed time and time again. Let them stop storing weapons in schools and hospitals if they want to prove they actually care about their own.

[LeftishBrit]

55. Absolutely; collective punishment occurs on both sides, and is wrong on both sides!

[leftynyc]

63. Why is that hard

for some people to admit? That Israel is not the devil and responsible for every single problem the Palestinians have? I have no problem saying I loathe bibi and think he's been disastrous for Israel but far too many DUers continue to treat the Palestinians like children who have no control over their own actions. It's part of the reason the situation is as it is.

[Marrah_G]

84. The governement is responsible for most of the problems

Oppression is wrong, wherever it is found in the world. No one gets a pass because they were oppressed in the past. Israel creates much of their own problems with it's actions.

Terrorism is in the eye of the beholder. Israel has killed far more civilians then the Palstinians have. Israel says "oh but we have good reason" and then when Palestinians kill Israels they say "oh but we have a good reason.

Nothing is going to change until Israel is forced to leave Palestinian lands and each are given a fairly divided piece of land.

[leftynyc]

85. If there was ever an argument that

makes me roll my eyes harder than Israelis have killed more than the Palestinians, I sure don't remember what it was. That the Israeli's have managed to minimize their own casualties by build bomb shelters all over the country to counteract the thousands of rockets that were shot at them during the Gaza war is now seen as a slam on them.

That the Palestinians took the money for aid and instead of building hospitals, school and bomb shelters for their own people - STOLE THE MONEY FROM THEIR OWN PEOPLE- to buy weapons and build tunnels to kill more Israelis is now used as a slam against Israel. And you're wrong - nothing is going to change until the Palestinians stop listening to those who convince them that if they just suffer a little while longer, those dastardly Israeli's will be beaten - if they suck it up and realize they've been victimized by their own leaders for decades and sit down with the Israeli's THEN things will change. They should have taken their state in 1948 instead of whining since then for continuous do-overs. The losers (who also STARTED the wars) don't get to dictate terms.

[Marrah_G]

86. Going to walk away now

Your hatred towards Palestinians goes too deep to have any sort of rational conversation.

[leftynyc]

87. I don't hate them

I hate their fucking leaders who have convinced them Israel is the root of all their problems.....while stealing every fucking dime from their own people. You want to give terrorist hamas and thoroughly corrupt abbas a pass because you hate Israel, that's entirely your problem.

[840high]

104. Seems you have a hatred, too.

[duhneece]

76. Agreed...and with your vehemence if not your eloquence nt

[leftynyc]

22. I agree with every

word you posted. Martyrs don't give a shit about themselves - perhaps they'll think twice when they realize their families will suffer consequences. Nauseating to see all these posters wringing their hands over a house and turning their heads when it's Israeli's getting stabbed for going to the beach. Perhaps if they thought about it, they'd realize why they have so little support in the US.

[LeftishBrit]

66. Would you support punishing the families of other criminals?

If someone murders someone in a gang fight, or seriously injures someone in a robbery, would you approve of tearing their families' houses down to 'make them think twice'?

I completely do NOT condone terrorism - just another form of warmongering, and if directed at civilians, of collective punishment - but neither do I support punishing families for the behaviour of individuals.

And I don't think that the US' (or UK's, or any country's) support or lack of it for other countries and groups is generally based much on approval of their actions in a moral sense. If it were, why would both our countries be so friendly with China and Saudi Arabia to name just two?

[leftynyc]

69. I think when you're dealing with

"martyrs", which is only connected to terrorists, the solutions HAVE to be different. When somebody doesn't care if they die, your options become limited (unless you catch them in the act before they can blow themselves up). So, no - I wouldn't support that kind of punishment for "simple" crime - only for terrorists.

I happen to completely agree with your last paragraph. The support for Israel is not merely that we're taking sides. It's that most Americans see what Israel has to put up with on a daily basis and understand this isn't like taking on crime in an American (or European for that matter) city. But the hypocrisy over human rights while people drive around in their suv's and buy all their China based products is just more proof that many people's "aversions" are not to be taken seriously if their morals are so very selective.

[duhneece]

78. "they'll think twice when they realize their families will be (punished with no charges, no trial...

...wringing their hands over a house (which are homes)..."

omg, seriously, how have you lasted on DU? Making me sick here, leftynyc

You have tried to justify hurting families. Sickening.

[leftynyc]

80. How have I lasted?

Maybe because as a whole DU is not make up of hypocrites. Just a wild guess.

[King_David]

114. How dare a poster with extremist views

Ask a Democrat like yourself " how have you lasted on DU"

That poster should be banished from DU!

[King_David]

113. How dare you ask someone who's opinions are far more in sync with Democratic Party principle than

yours are , how she has lasted on DU.

WTF ... If anyone should be banished from DU it's you and not leftnyc....

She's a regular Democrat ...

WTF are you?

[duhneece]

118. If I ever saw before or believed that DU supported punishing families ...

...if I'd ever seen folks justify punishing families with no charges no trial no conviction of guilt....I would not have stayed with DU for over a decade. I hadn't before this.

I remain shocked but merely wary now of that possibility.

I still find it unfair and sickening, but I won't continue to question a DUer who holds that ability to justify punishing families ...

[Chan790]

56. When I need to think something through, I often use the "two lists" method.

Effective responses to terrorism:
Intelligence gathering, counterintelligence, infiltration of cells and organizations responsible, police-actions, procedural reviews to identify weaknesses in current operational methods in order make future attacks more difficult and less effective, litigation, prosecution of responsible parties including those who have lent operational support, {an incomplete list}

Non-effective responses to terrorism:
Bulldozing people's homes; encouraging settlers to disappropriate land from a rival nation, people or tribe; response terrorism; political violence; ghettoization; torture; {an incomplete list}

I admit as an outsider, I may not have a complete or accurate view of actions on the ground...but it seems like Israel does very little on the first list and a whole lot of the second list. I understand their frustrations...but they also seem to not be great at identifying the right targets for their responses. They spend a lot of time leaning on the PA to control Hamas, ignoring that Hamas hates the PA (and its predecessor the PLO) just as much as it hates Israel because the PA is interested in a peace with Israel that Hamas is opposed to. More to the point, Hamas is encouraged to continue its actions...it's anti-peace, acting subverts the efforts of the PA to reach a peace, and Israel continually blames the PA for being unable to control Hamas...they're giving Hamas the response Hamas wants. If they really wanted to piss on Hamas for the shit Hamas does, they should more aggressively prosecute for peace with the PA in response to such actions by Hamas operatives and partisans in the Gaza Strip.

A durable peace for Israel that includes the PA and excludes Hamas is the greatest existential threat to Hamas' continued existence.

[NutmegYankee]

3. This is the young woman who was murdered:

A 19 Year-old policewoman. A civil servant doing her duty as a border guard.
I care more about her family than I do about the monsters who cheered their sons acts and made posters celebrating it. Fuck them!

[COLGATE4]

6. This is what Palestinian 'martyrs' accomplish. And

to absolutely no purpose except to keep their 'leaders' in perpetual power by whipping up the population to pursue the long-held goal of 'driving the Jews into the sea'.

[sulphurdunn]

9. Hasbara bullshit

[sulphurdunn]

12. This woman's name

was Hader Cohen. She had just completed basic training. Her actions are credited with saving the life of one of her comrades. She was very brave.Those who killed her had no known links to any terrorist organizations, nor is their evidence from any reliable source that their parents cheered, made posters or otherwise celebrated either the death of Hader or the deaths of their own sons.

[NutmegYankee]

13. No evidence of posters - except photographic.

Look at the far right of the image.

[sulphurdunn]

14. What is there to see?

What is the message?

[COLGATE4]

61. Perhaps there are no reports because it's a) commonplace

and b) expected. And your hypocritical praising of this young woman is offensive.

[GOLGO 13]

7. They can cheer their sons "accomplishments" from the street.

[Marrah_G]

20. The families are not responsible for the actions of one

Can you imagine if someone in your family did a terrible thing and they came and bulldozed your home?

[COLGATE4]

105. I'd be really pissed at the idiot in my famiy

that brought that on me. Except the money they get from the Palestinian authority will probably assuage their anger.

[LanternWaste]

33. Your sentiment accurately illustrates precisely why there is no solution available.

Your sentiment accurately illustrates precisely why there is no solution currently available. Jeers and vengeance, even if only done via the visceral mechanism of posting, are all the two side have to offer each other.

It also illustrates your character rather accurately.

[cpwm17]

10. Fascism is alive in Israel (and on DU).

I don't wonder what Americans would do if foreign soldiers tried to conduct a "security check" on US soil. Because I know that Americans would not put up with foreigners that have a self-declared right to be our masters.

Albert Einstein's letter:
https://archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin's behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.

The public avowals of Begin's party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

Attack on Arab Village
A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants (240 men, women, and children) and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin...

The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism

[FLPanhandle]

11. Like it or not, it is an effective strategy

The number of attacks went way down when the Russians started going after the families of terrorist in Chechnya.

It's not fair or necessarily moral to go after the family members of terrorists, but it has been proven to be a big deterrent. Not 100% but it does reduce or make the terrorist think twice.

Of course, actually setting some borders and a two separate states would do even better...

[Marrah_G]

19. I don't feel bad for the attackers

But I do feel badly for their families. When an Israeli attacks a Palestinian do they tear down their homes as well?

[Bad Dog]

24. This was a tactic carried out during the Britiah mandate.

It didn't work then either.

[Odin2005]

25. Collective punishment is a crime against humanity.

Fuck Israel.

[Old Vet]

28. Fuck Israeli,

Not only do they destroy the family's home but shut the water supply off, Stop food from being delivered to select areas, And this shits been going on to long. And as I speak there and still building more settlements to defend to the death, There will never be a two state solution because first they would have to see the Palestine's as human beings first, Which they are not capable of.

[Jitter65]

30. So they just made at least 12 more Israeli haters. nt

[COLGATE4]

57. No need. Palestinian TV shows for children

do a very good job of that making sure that from their earliest years Palestinian children learn that Israelis are "pigs" and "demons" and that their highest calling is wiping Jews from the face of the earth.

[LanternWaste]

34. All of this, all of it due to the Sikes-Picot Accord of 1919.

All of this, all of it due to the Sikes-Picot Accord of 1919.

[Agony]

36. That's NOTHING

Israel has bulldozed whole villages more than once. The most moral military in the world strikes again. Same old shit since 1948.

https://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&type=summary&url=/journals/positions/v013/13.1guttman.pdf

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.668820

450 structures demolished in 2015 alone…
http://icahd.org

[cpwm17]

39. Nakba

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_Day

During the 1948 Palestine War, an estimated 700,000 Palestinians fled or were expelled, and hundreds of Palestinian towns and villages were depopulated and destroyed.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

The Nakba started in 1947. The Nakba is widely praised by the pro-Israel fascists. The fascists blame the dirty Arabs for attacking "Israel" in 1948. The surrounding Arab nations attacked the fascist terrorists in 1948 that were creating a massive refugee crisis and threatening the whole region. Arabs do have a right to self-defense and to not be treated like shit.

[leftynyc]

43. Perhaps if the Palestinians

had accepted the state offered to them in 1948 instead of going to war, they would be in much better shape. Or are you going to pretend that Israel started that also? Why so many on DU want the Israeli's to reward terrorists is beyond me but I'm thankful they have such a dismal level of support in the US.

[sulphurdunn]

45. Zionists calling Palestinians terrorists

is like a pot calling the kettle black. As for 1948, Zionists should be thankful that the world only demands they return what they stole in 1967 and not return to the status quo ante. As Zionism becomes increasingly shrill and arrogant in its defense of the indefensible, support is rapidly eroding in the US like it is in the rest of the world.

[leftynyc]

47. LOL - Stole?

No - the Palestinians lost the war and Jews were finally able to worship at their most holy site. The rest of the world can go fuck themselves. And rapidly losing support? What world do you live in? Support for Israel just keeps going up for the last 10 years among Americans, your delusions nothwithstanding. Sympathies for the Israeli's = 62%, for the Palestinians 15%. You want to hang your hat on 15% support, knock yourself out. Read it and weep.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/189626/americans-views-toward-israel-remain-firmly-positive.aspx

Try Europeans - although I think the people of Brussels and Paris and the entire country of Germany may just not be feeling all that warm and fuzzy about rewarding terrorists.

[sulphurdunn]

48. The illegality

of permanent territorial conquest is the cornerstone of international law, which is why no country recognizes Israeli occupation of the West Bank or of East Jerusalem, including the US. Support for the second conquest of Canaan is on the wane. It is beginning with the young and better educated. It will work its way through society soon enough unless Israeli colonialism changes. "The rest of the world can go fuck itself" arrogance will continue only so long as the US remains Zionism's bull-boy. It is exactly the kind of ethno-supremnacist bullshit that is costing Israel support in the US despite all efforts to reverse the trend.

Read it and weep. The handwriting is on the wall.

http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/203589/young-americans-moving-away-from-israel-support/

[leftynyc]

50. Yawn

The US are the biggest occupiers of Native American land and that's been going on for over 200 years. Then there's China/Tibet, UK/Ireland and dozens of others. But only Israel gets the bad press which is why I know nobody who gives a shit what the UN or any international group has to say about it. They're all sniveling hypocrites.

As far as your pathetic nonsense about the "conquest of Canaan" (what's wrong, can't even type the word Israel - this is what's wrong with you and the others) and I already posted where support for Israel has RISEN since 2009. Instead of sniping at me, perhaps you and your pals should be asking yourselves why that is because the day Israel gives a shit about the continent that tried to wipe out all the Jews will be a long time coming.

I also was a strong supporter of the Palestinians when I was young and stupid. Then I grew up. So will these young ones.

[sulphurdunn]

51. There are so many logical fallacies

in this response you should consider getting a Hasbara job catapulting Zionist propaganda at the Goyim.

[leftynyc]

52. Yaaawwwwnnnnn

According to that gallup poll, they don't need me. Israel's reputation is safe in the US and on the rise since 2009 despite all the bullshit thrown its way. Too bad for you.

There are no logical fallacies - what you see is the rank, repulsive hypocrisy of the UN and Europe on the subject of Israel. That's why Israel doesn't care what either one thinks. Neither do most Americans, for that matter. the UN has become nothing but the mouthpiece of tinpot dictators and terrorists who want to put a pretty face on their repulsive violence.

[sulphurdunn]

53. Pride struts before destruction,

a haughty spirit before a fall. Proverbs 16:18.

Look down. By a parachute.

[COLGATE4]

59. Oh no! Biblical theats, no less.nt

[sulphurdunn]

70. It's called a Biblical allusion.

I suppose that if warning arrogant assholes they will eventually get kicked in the ass is a threat, you could call it a threat... if you were an arrogant asshole.

[leftynyc]

62. Sigh

I guess the simple truth sounds different to you than to most Americans. Your claim was that support was falling for Israel in the US and I showed you proof that was bullshit. You don't like that proof so now are trying........what? I mean, Heaven forbid you just admit you were wrong about that.

[King_David]

60. All you hear from that poster is "Zionists,Zionists,Zionists "

Responsible for all the worlds evil it sounds like .....

What do you think is meant by "Zionists "?

And on DU , no less.....

[leftynyc]

64. I noticed that also

Just another who wont even utter the word Israel. Not really sure what simpleminded fools they think they're kidding.

[sulphurdunn]

71. The poster was addressing

a specific issue, not blaming Zionists for all the sins of the world. That's the kind of lame retort one expects from children, and on DU no less.

[leftynyc]

73. They're ISRAELI'S

You tip your hand every single time you refuse to even admit there are people that are ISRAELI'S that live in ISRAEL. Your "Zionist" bullshit makes it plain to everyone where you're coming from. There are Zionists all over the world but the ones you are whining about are ISRAELI'S.

[sulphurdunn]

75. This may be disturbing to you,

but there are plenty of Jews, Israeli Jews, and non-Jewish Israelis who are not Zionists and who very much oppose the Zionist policies of Israel. Where exactly am I coming from when I criticize Zionism that is so plain to everyone? Who exactly is everyone? Try and be specific.

[leftynyc]

79. Don't try and play your games

with me. The OP is about ISRAEL. The people making the decisions about punishment are ISRAELI'S. Why call them Zionists? Who the fuck do you think you're kidding with your coy bullshit?

[sulphurdunn]

89. Slow down!

There's no reason to have a stroke over something you are either unable or unwilling to grasp anyway.

[leftynyc]

92. You think you have

that kind of power? That's pretty funny. Unwilling to grasp the FACT you have trouble calling Israeli's Israelis? No, I don't think so but do feel free to explain your habit of linking all Zionists with Israelis.

[King_David]

82. AntiZionism is Antisemitism

AntiZionist is denying self determination to the Jewish people .
Zionist is used as a dirty word - on DU no less.
If that were said by someone on a Democratic Party candidate campaign - that person would in all likelihood be fired from the campaign- same day.

[sulphurdunn]

94. That worn out canard is like saying anti-fascists

hate Germans and wish to deny them their self-determination as Germans. No necessary or causal relationship exists between being a Jew and being a Zionist. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Anti-Semitism_&_Anti-Zionism.html

Any Democratic Party candidate who made disparaging remarks against any religious, racial or ethnic group would be fired from the campaign. Was there some larger point to that comment?

[King_David]

95. Nope

I'm done here.

[COLGATE4]

58. "The world demands they return what they stole in 1967"

Only those in your imaginary world are demanding that.

[sulphurdunn]

72. In that case,

my imaginary world is the real world, because that world does demand a return what was stolen. That's just one of those inconvenient facts. In the world of people who think like you, the majority must be the minority because it will not legitimize the theft of Palestinian land.

[msanthrope]

65. "Stole?" No....won. nt

[cpwm17]

67. More fascism on DU.

Not surprisingly from a Hillary supporter.

[sulphurdunn]

74. Under which definition of international law

does defeating an enemy army give you the right to invade and colonize someone's land? According to your logic, the US would have been well within its rights to colonize Germany and Japan at the end of WWII.

[cpwm17]

77. Except the Palestinians and the neighboring Arab nations weren't the aggressors in Israel's wars

unlike Germany and Japan.

But we still certainly had no right to colonize Germany or Japan.

[King_David]

83. Weren't the aggressors?

You think nobody here knows history.....? You are kind of alone in that category here.

[cpwm17]

88. 1967 was a "preemptive war" by Israel.

Starting before Israel's creation, in 1947, the pre-Israel Zionists expelled a large percentage of the Palestinians to create a Jewish majority state (the Palestinian Nakba). The fascists blame the neighboring Arab nations for starting the war in 1948. Their physics sucks, 1947 comes before 1948. Time goes forward.

The fighting with the neighboring Arab nations took place in what was supposed to remain Palestinian (according to the illegal UN resolution pushed through by Western Nations. The UN had no right to violate the Palestinians' right to self-determination). The neighboring Arab nations got involved after there was a huge influx of Palestinian refugees to their nations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_Day

During the 1948 Palestine War, an estimated 700,000 Palestinians fled or were expelled, and hundreds of Palestinian towns and villages were depopulated and destroyed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_towns_and_villages_depopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus

Around 400 Arab towns and villages were depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus. Some places were entirely destroyed and left uninhabitable;[1][2] others were left with a few hundred residents and were repopulated by Jewish immigrants, then renamed.

Those areas that became a part of Israel and had at least a partial Arab population consisted of approximately 100 villages and two towns. Arabs remained in small numbers in some of the cities (Haifa, Jaffa and Acre); and Jerusalem was divided between Jordan and Israel. Around 30,000 Palestinians remained in Jerusalem in what became the Arab part of it (East Jerusalem). In addition, some 30,000 non-Jewish refugees relocated to East Jerusalem, while 5,000 Jewish refugees moved from the Old City to West Jerusalem on the Israeli side. An overwhelming number of the Arab residents, and other non-Jews such as Greeks and Armenians, who had lived in the cities that became a part of Israel and were renamed (Acre, Haifa, Safad, Tiberias, Ashkelon, Beersheba, Jaffa and Beisan) fled or were expelled. Most of the Palestinians who remain there are internally displaced people from the villages nearby.

[King_David]

91. You use the word "Zionist" as a perjorative

And on DU too ....

We all understand what that means.

[cpwm17]

98. Your lack of interest in the terrible crimes against the Palestinians is noted,

and my response to your accusation is here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1406092

[King_David]

100. We all know what you're really talking about ...

[cpwm17]

111. Speak for yourself.

[King_David]

112. My post stands

As written...

[LeftishBrit]

68. 'Zionists'?

If you mean the Israeli government, say so. Zionists are anyone who thinks Israel should continue to exist; and have a huge variety of other views: quite a number oppose the Occupation and most other current Israeli government policies.

P.S. as regards 'stealing' land: your country stole much of its land from the native population; mine maintained a huge empire and profited on the backs of 'colonials' for centuries. Few places in the world have clean hands. This doesn't justify Israel's actions, but neither does it justify treating it as a lone pariah facing a righteous world.

[cpwm17]

81. Defending Americans that stole land from the natives a long ago

is currently only done by the far right and would lead to a quick banning from DU if attempted here.

Defending Israel's recent and current (and the pre-Israel Zionists' recent past in 1947 and 1948) theft of Palestinian land is frequently done on DU. Also the victims of this theft and mistreatment are vilified here and elsewhere, which is rarely done by right-wing American defenders of US land theft.

[King_David]

93. Using the word Zionist as has been done in this thread , should garner a quick ban on DU too....

The "Zionism is racism "extremist bigoted view should not be tolerated .

AntiZionism is Antisemitism.

[cpwm17]

97. I use the word "Zionist" here to distinguish from the Israelis,

who didn't exist in 1947 and early 1948, and I won't call them Jews, because that would be a blanket condemnation of all Jews, when only particular Jews were guilty of the ethnic cleansing. In this context, Zionist is correct.

I think you should be more concerned about the Palestinians that are horribly mistreated, rather than trying to play the victim by taking offense about the meaning of words.

[King_David]

99. Oh please

We all know exactly what's going on here.

These Jews at this time that were not -Zionists that you are trying pathetically and laughably to differentiate were too busy being slaughtered and expelled to be caught up as "Zionists " .

Your post is pathetic, insulting and belongs on some extremist site that's not Democratic Party supporting as it's insulting to DU .

Shame.

[cpwm17]

107. The number one thing that makes a liberal a liberal

is a belief in The Golden Rule. If you so profoundly disagree with The Golden Rule, then you're not anywhere close to being liberal.

Your historical revisionism and support for the atrocities committed against the Palestinians is noted. The crimes committed against them is well documented.

[King_David]

108. Is "noted"...

By you?



I find antiZionism on the most repugnant extremist and white supremacist right wing websites on the web.

One doesn't expect to find them here on DU..

Because antiZionism is Antisemitism.

[Nihil]

109. "antiZionism is Antisemitism"? Bullshit.

"Using the word Zionist as has been done in this thread , should garner a quick ban on DU too.."

Also bullshit.

You are not an appointed censor and your bigotry is every bit as distasteful as anti-Semitism.

[King_David]

110. I am fighting bigotry here,

Think on DU antiZionism is it's acceptable ?
A site that supports the Democratic Party?
Prey tell me which public Democratic Party rep or candidate said any such thing ? Which person on a campaign would be tolerated even one day who would say such a thing?

Now I have seen Antisemitism/AntiZionism on extremist right wing white supremacist sites such as Stormfront and David Duke...but never thought I would see it here on DU.

When the bigoted ,homophobic anti LGBT Jew Hating medieval crowd of Islamic countries passed a resolution saying Zionism is racism it was roundly fought and defeated by the enlightened world .... Because AntiZionism is Antisemitism.... Despite what those backward extreme socially right wing medieval hate filled homophobic anti Human rights countries may say.

[Nihil]

115. No, you are spreading it.

You started by posting your views, your justifications for illegal action, your
poisonous hatred for anyone who criticises the actions of the Israeli government
in an honest (even blatant) manner using an Israeli flag as your avatar.

You have since found it more "acceptable" to use the rainbow flag as camouflage.
Unfortunately, you haven't moderated your hate speech at all during that time.

Anti-Semitism is not acceptable on DU or anywhere in the civilised world so don't
pretend that it is so by deliberately blurring the boundaries between that and
"anti-Zionist-extremism" or "anti-illegal-settlerism" (or, more simply, the heinous
crime of disagreeing with "King_David&quot .

Frankly, your admission that you read extremist right wing supremacist sites
explains where you pick up your vitriolic outburst of sheer hatred at the end
of your post.

Far from "fighting bigotry", you are spreading it both directly (against anyone who
disagrees with the Israeli government) and indirectly (provoking a backlash that
inevitably leads to you playing the victim card).

[King_David]

116. And I'm done with you

And this ridiculous post of yours.
I think it would be good for you to remember that this site supports the Democratic Party which is the same as mine and Barak Obama and Bernie and Hillary where it comes to Jews , Zionism and Israel .
I am proud to have a rainbow flag as an avatar and you having a problem with my sexual orientation says all anyone need to know about yourself.

Perhaps you found yourself on the wrong site here at DU?

[Nihil]

117. But, unsurprisingly, you managed to fit in one more libel on your opponent before going.

Suggesting that my "problem" with you is anything to do with whatever your
sexual orientation happens to be is not only unsupported (no change there)
but pretty low, even for you.

[democrattotheend]

49. I thought Israel ended that practice about 5 years ago

I remember reading that somewhere. I guess it changed again?

[scioto99]

90. To understand the problem, answer some questions:

Why are there well over a hundred Christian-majority countries, and several dozen Muslim-majority countries, but up until 1948 no Jewish-majority nation anywhere on planet?

Q: Why are there tons of Christians, 1.6 billion Muslims - and only 15 million Jews?

(Answer: both Christianity and Islam believe that God wants the whole world to be conquered by their beliefs. They are colonialist religions. They have used endless invasion, war, slavery, coercion, forced conversion, discrimination, pogroms, holocausts to take over almost the whole world. Meanwhile, Jews minded their own business. They have lived as despised outsiders in every land, and got humiliated or murdered regularly.)

Q: Why do the Jews want one little place to call their own?

(Anwer: after centuries of being murdered by their Muslim and Christian neighbors, isn't it pretty obvious?)

If you're in America right now, you're living on land that Christian conquerors stole from some native person. If you're in a Muslim land right now - unless it's Saudi Arabia - Muslim conquerors invaded and stole it from the polytheists or Christians or Zoroastrians who went before. It started with the warlord Mohammed and it's still going on today. It's why the Muslim world is still a violent shambles.

As far as I can see: Jews are the ONE Abrahamic religion that have never wanted anything but one damn piece of land where they could be safe and be left alone. The problem was pretty easy to solve in 1948 and remains pretty easy to solve today.

[yourpaljoey]

101. Time to cut all aid to israel forever

that has my vote

[MFM008]

102. only a matter of time

before Netenyahu feels its time for another Operation wipe out palestinians, were due, its been 2 years.

[COLGATE4]

106. You get the Godwin award for this,

aside from having written perhaps the most distasteful posts I've read on the subect. Your saying that the Israelis 'learned well from the Nazis' and using 'Third Reich tactics' is not the bottom of the barrel in discussion of this point- it's below the bottom of the barrel.

[maxrandb]

121. Ummm, isn't this a war crime?