Dallas police chief: 10 officers shot at protest; 3 dead

[TomCADem]

Source: MSN/Associated Press

DALLAS (AP) — Two snipers apparently shot 10 police officers during protests in Dallas on Thursday night and three officers are dead, the city's police chief said in a statement.

A statement from Dallas Police Chief David Brown released by a city spokeswoman said "it appears that two snipers shot ten police officers from elevated positions during the protest/rally."

The gunfire broke out around 8:45 p.m. Thursday while hundreds of people were gathered to protest fatal police shootings this week in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and suburban St. Paul, Minnesota.

The statement said three officers are deceased, two are in surgery and three are in critical condition.

Read more: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/police-3-officers-killed-during-dallas-protests/ar-BBu5aky

---

Isn't this what Republicans and the NRA fantasize about 2nd Amendment remedies? The easy availability of guns is check on government tyranny and oppression? Thus, if voting or the normal political process proves ineffective, then resort to guns?

Yet, as we saw with the action of militias in Oregon or snipers in Texas, relying one's second amendment remedies does not make someone a freedom fighter. It makes them a criminal regardless of the legitimacy of their original grievance.

[OccupyPA]

1. 4 dead

[milestogo]

2. 11 officers shot

[TomCADem]

7. GOP Candidate Stephen Broden: Violent Revolution Is ‘On The Table’

The irony of a Texas Republican comments back in 2011.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/22/stephen-broden-revolution_n_772391.html

A Tea Party-backed congressional candidate in Texas is doing Sharron Angle’s suggestive talk of “Second Amendment remedies“ one better: he says violent overthrow of the government is “on the table.”

“Our nation was founded on violence,” Stephen Broden, a pastor running against Democratic Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson in Texas’s 30th Congressional District, said in a recent interview with Dallas’s WFAA-TV. “The option is on the table. I don’t think that we should ever remove anything from the table as it relates to our liberties and our freedoms.”

Though Broden did concede that this method “is not the first option,” these words are perhaps the sharpest from an establishment-backed GOP candidate and occasional Glenn Beck guest with a history of controversial statements.

WFAA’s segment on Broden highlights statements that the made at a 9/12 rally last year, but is now walking away from.

[harrose]

3. And the Rethugs *STILL* won't consider gun control.

Every obstructionist Rethug Congressperson needs to be charged as an accomplice for these murders.

[TomCADem]

9. Mike McCalister, Florida GOP Senate Candidate, Brings Back Second Amendment Remedies

As if we need another illustration as to why guns as a means of warding off the government is a terrible, terrible idea.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/10/mike-mccalister-florida-republican-senate-second-amendment-remedies_n_1086109.html

WASHINGTON — The idea that gun rights could be used to ward off an overreaching federal government was a concept introduced to public in early 2010, when Nevada Republican Senate candidate Sharron Angle spoke of “Second Amendment remedies.”

Two years and Angle’s tough election loss later, the idea remains in vogue in some conservative circles. Florida Senate candidate Mike McCalister, who is running against incumbent Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), offered a variation of the much-lampooned line during a speech before the Palms West Republican Club earlier this week.

“I get asked sometimes where do I stand on the Second and 10th Amendment, and I have a little saying,” he declared. “We need a sign at every harbor, every airport and every road entering our state: ‘You’re entering a 10th Amendment-owned and -operated state, and justice will be served with the Second Amendment.’

McCalister’s comment, which was recorded by the Democratic opposition research group American Bridge, plays to the states’ rights dogma that dominates GOP politics. That said, the suggestion that firearms will be brought to bear against the federal government isn’t precisely a fixture of Republican Party talking points. Angle’s declaration that “if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies” earned her lasting criticism.

[Maru Kitteh]

4. MSNBC; 4 dead, 2 in surgery, 3 in critical condition

just unreal.

[Akicita]

5. 4 now dead. Eleven officers shot and one civilian wounded.

[Maru Kitteh]

6. person in "person of interest" photo NOT involved in shooting

[Rex]

8. This will cause all law enforcement around the country to go on alert.

The NRA and the GOP should disband.

[TomCADem]

13. Joni Ernst: My Gun Will Defend Me If Government Decides ‘My Rights Are No Longer Important’

I wonder whether Donald Trump VP prospect and GOP superstar Joni Ernst would be cheering on the sniper.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/22/joni-ernst-guns_n_6032164.html

WASHINGTON — Joni Ernst, the Republican candidate for U.S. Senate in Iowa, said during an NRA event in 2012 that she would use a gun to defend herself from the government.

“I have a beautiful little Smith & Wesson, 9 millimeter, and it goes with me virtually everywhere,” Ernst said at the NRA and Iowa Firearms Coalition Second Amendment Rally in Searsboro, Iowa. “But I do believe in the right to carry, and I believe in the right to defend myself and my family — whether it’s from an intruder, or whether it’s from the government, should they decide that my rights are no longer important.”

Ernst made the remark a little more than a month after gunman James Holmes allegedly killed 12 people and injured 58 in a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado. Ernst’s campaign did not respond to The Huffington Post’s request for comment about the remark on Wednesday evening.

Earlier this year, Ernst released an ad in which she points a gun at the camera and vows to “unload” on Obamacare.

[Crash2Parties]

15. And likely end up shooting more unarmed "civilians"

[Rex]

16. I am afraid so, and here in Texas since we just LUV open carry

anyone could be a possible suspect.

[Kablooie]

10. This is only going to make things worse.

Now cops will be even quicker to shoot innocent black men.
The bigger the threat to police, the more paranoid killing of innocents will result.

Not good, guys.
I understand the urge to kill police after more murders of innocents but it is not the answer.
It's only pouring gunpowder into the inferno.

[Rose Siding]

17. I don't understand the urge to kill anyone.

[Skittles]

19. I do not understand the urge to kill

if you killed my brother, I would hate you but I would not kill your brother

[7962]

49. Of course not. Why would you?

You'd kill the KILLER

[merrily]

32. A human being understanding a human urge does not equal being sick.

Your selective quoting sure sucks, tho.

This was the context from which you cherry picked for your subject line:

10. This is only going to make things worse.

Now cops will be even quicker to shoot innocent black men.
The bigger the threat to police, the more paranoid killing of innocents will result.

Not good, guys.
I understand the urge to kill police after more murders of innocents but it is not the answer.
It's only pouring gunpowder into the inferno.

You owe the poster a humble apology.

[Kablooie]

33. The frustration and anger from this kind of thing can bring irrational thoughts of retaliation.

But they are fleeting feelings, not plans of action.
I can understand the wild fantasies that people cook up in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy in order to deal with it.

My point is that if the killing of police is the result of someone acting out these feelings it's the absolute wrong way to deal with it.
It pushes the situation farther away from a solution and increases the danger for everyone.

[duhneece]

45. Agreed. Thoughts of revenge and retaliation are, sadly, human responses

...but on second thought, none of us on DU would actually suggest or demand such responses...revenge is sweet, they say, and humans have a sweet tooth. Thus, 9/11 and the Iraq War...

[840high]

34. No - I don't understand.

[Chicago1980]

11. Suspect in custody

[ancianita]

12. Access to guns replaces access to democracy or law and order. PR won't fix this problem.

[TomCADem]

18. Ted Cruz Disagrees. 2nd Amendment Is "the ultimate check against governmental tyranny"

I wonder whether the media will have the guts to ask Ted Cruz about his prior remarks on 2nd Amendment solutions.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/10/time-cool-it-2nd-amendment-solutions

The 2nd Amendment...is a Constitutional right to protect your children, your family, your home, our lives, and to serve as the ultimate check against governmental tyranny — for the protection of liberty.

[ancianita]

23. Silly me. But of course 2A is the ultimate check against the biggest guns on the planet,

and a military that likes to conduct drone attacks and reduce rooftops to rubble.

So yeah, war and suffering are more fodder for Cruz christianists.

And increasing intel watchlists.

War is a win-win racket for manufacturers of guns and salvation.

[Nay]

51. I had that exact discussion with a gun humper once -- I turned around and said,

"REALLY?? Your guns and several thousand rounds of ammo are going to stop the big bad government from carpet bombing your whole county if it wants to, and then sending in the tanks???? I don't think so!" Said in my most sarcastic voice. So fucking ridiculous.

[Crunchy Frog]

31. I guess this will serve as a test case for that proposition.

[ancianita]

54. Tom's was sarcasm. The US doesn't need a test case to know where full on fights lead us.

[jalan48]

20. And this will lead to cops killing more citizens.

It's insanity.

[Bucky]

22. This.

I'm mortified. Whoever did this wasn't protesting police violence. They were trying to intensify it to destroy our civil society.

I'm glad the cops caught at least one of the shooters. Who ever's behind it needs to be prosecuted and locked away forever.

[jalan48]

27. I think lumping all police together is an over generalization.

Who will you replace them with? A private police force like Blackwater?

[billhicks76]

40. Have You Been Paying Attention?

Guys like Blackwater or other contractors get jobs as cops more than any other group. Ever see a maniacal cop with PTSD? I have. Even other cops are afraid of them.

[christx30]

29. I had pretty much this exact same thought.

Of course you're angry about the state of law enforcement in this country. We all are. Too many unarmed people of all races, but mostly people of color, are getting killed by police every day. Scream about it. Yell. Protest peacefully.
By using violence, you are painting a huge target on everyone's back. It's the opposite of helpful. And from the political standpoint, it allows broad brush attacks from people that are against reforms. Cops and conservatives will circle the wagons against the "war on police".

[NobodyHere]

21. Susposedly both snipers in custody

[Spitfire of ATJ]

24. Good thing the cops didn't spray the crowd with return fire....

We could have had a massacre on our hands.

[vkkv]

25. HORRIBLE !!!!!!!! NOW maybe we can have a discussion???????? nt

[csziggy]

30. Live presser - Dallas PD in negotiation with suspect

In a garage - source Chief David Brown: http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/dallas-county/breaking-shots-fired-and-officers-down-at-downtown-dallas-protest/266881573

Suspect says bombs in garage and all over downtown Dallas.

Some other info about two suspects with bags - think they may have them.

[jbeing]

36. Has anyone identified the suspects?

Are they African-American? Are they white? Haven't heard anything.

People seem to assuming that the perpetrators were African-American.

A report said they were stopped in Oak Cliff in a Mercedes with camo bags.

Something is very strange about this.

BTW - Brian Williams is the worst. He wants to be Walter Cronkite, but comes off as someone who stopped reading the World Book Encyclopedia at the letter B.

[davsand]

38. Facebook post from a person at the protest referred to the shooter as a "Cracker".

Not a person I know personally, so I can't vouch for accuracy...

Seems to me that if the shooters/suspects were black we'd have been hearing about that already.



Laura

[jbeing]

39. Odd, isn't it?

With people committing this sort of crime that a description of the suspect(s) has not been disseminated in any media (that I know of).

I only have conjecture and my own suspicions (many times wrong).

Thank, davsand.

[billhicks76]

42. We're The Cops Black?

Victims of White Supremacists?

[billhicks76]

41. No Way

They are White agent provocateurs? That would be crazy.

[GummyBearz]

55. No information has been released other than...

"Dallas shooting: suspect killed by police wanted to 'kill white officers'"

Maybe he was a self hating white person?

[Night Watchman]

37. AP Update: 5 officers dead, 6 hurt in Dallas protest shooting

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/df32a96a0e1d4cd1ab2cb5d2fd536dcb/dallas-police-chief-negotiations-underway-parking-garage

[Vinca]

43. I wonder how the cops in Baton Rouge and the cop in Minnesota feel.

Their actions were like a match to a powder keg. It's a sad situation. All cops aren't bad, but all cops pay the price for the bad ones.

[BeyondGeography]

44. Vindicated is how they will feel

This is an evil act. If vengeance was the motive, congratulations and mission not accomplished. Vengeance upon the perpetrators in LA and MN happens only through the justice system. While we know that's hardly a given, it's a far better route than was taken here, which will only lead to more cynicism and hate, or maybe that was the motive.

[MH1]

48. And if the shooters weren't white - then BLM and all AA's will pay the price for Dallas, IMO.

It's not right, it's never right. But I will guarantee you there will be backlash against all black people for this. To a huge extent if the shooters were black. Even if the shooters were white, some people will still believe it's all BLM's fault and hold it against all black people.

And frankly we will all pay the price regardless. The harder it is to get good people to become cops, the worse the cops will be, and the worse job they will do in protecting people and stopping crimes, not to mention the whole abuse of power that has brought us to this place.

[paleotn]

46. I am sad beyond words...

...my heart goes out to their families. This shit has got to stop!

[brooklynite]

47. Update: now 12 officers shot; 5 killed

[Odin2005]

50. This country has gone insane.

[brooklynite]

52. CNN: "suspect said he was upset about Black Lives Matter" & recent police shootings"

Vaughn Sterling Verified account ‏@vplus
CNN JUST IN: Deceased #Dallas suspect said he was "upset about Black Lives Matter" & recent police shootings, "upset at white people"

[jzodda]

53. What a tragedy

The protests were peaceful with police officers mingling with and talking with protesters. I just look at it as another mass shooting.

I no longer care about the motives.

I want these guns off the streets!

[yurbud]

56. the interaction between cops and protesters BEFORE shooting gives clear picture of what BLM wants:

protesters and cops, friendly and posing for photos together.

All people want safe communities and know we need police to have that. When we are in trouble and call the police, we want and will be grateful for their help.

When we are suspected of doing something wrong, we don't want the situation to escalate unnecessarily.

We don't want to end up dead because of a traffic stop. Or hear that our kids ended up dead

And we don't want cops killed because we need them to do their job and go home to their families at the end of the day.