Sanford police: Zimmerman passed up two chances to talk to Trayvon

[maddezmom]

Source: Orlando Sentinel

4:16 p.m. EST, June 26, 2012|
By Rene Stutzman and Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel


Just-released documents show that Sanford police didn't believe everything murder defendant George Zimmerman told them about what happened the night he killed Trayvon Martin but they had no evidence to disprove his self-defense claim.

"Investigative findings show the physical injuries displayed by George Michael Zimmerman were marginally consistent with a life-threatening episode as described by him," wrote police Investigator Chris Serino.

Still, Serino in that report faulted Zimmerman for twice passing up the chance to tell the 17-year-old that he was a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, something that may well have defused the situation.

The paperwork also reveals that Sanford police concluded that Trayvon was running toward the townhouse where he was staying when the two confronted each other.

And it shows that they believed Zimmerman was following Trayvon, something the second-degree murder defendant initially admitted but later denied.


Read more: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-26/news/os-george-zimmerman-latest-evidence-20120626_1_special-prosecutor-release-statements

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Zimmerman passed lie detector test on night of shooting

A confidential report released Tuesday from Florida prosecutors shows that George Zimmerman passed a lie detector test the night he shot Trayvon Martin.

The Sanford, Fla., police report shows that the test involved his claim that he did not confront the unarmed 17-year-old on Feb. 26 and that he feared for his life when he shot Trayvon.

According to the police report, Zimmerman was asked nine questions, including two related to the shooting in the gated community.

According to the report, officials conducting the test asked Zimmerman these two questions:

1.Tester: "Did you confront the guy you shot?" Zimmerman: "No."
2.Tester: "Were you in fear for your life, when you shot the guy?" Zimmerman: "Yes."

more:http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/06/george-zimmerman-passed-first-lie-detector-test-after-shooting/1

[montanacowboy]

1. so much for lie detectors

guess he is a good enough liar to fool the machine

[yardwork]

2. The lie detector wouldn't work if Zimmerman believed, emotionally, that he was right.

I have no doubt that Zimmerman believed he was in the right, but that doesn't make it so. He seems to be a severely disturbed individual. Charles Manson would probably pass a similarly worded lie detector test. Many violent criminals believe that they have a right to commit their crimes.

[MADem]

3. +1 nt

[maddezmom]

5. agreed

and the scientific community puts little stock in them...too many variables.

[JI7]

7. or that he didn't have any worries about being held accountable for what happened

[Vanje]

12. Being genuinely 'scared of a black teenager

doesn't mean you can shoot him.

[brush]

21. Too Scared?

We all know now that zimmerman is a liar (the perjury in court to a judge), so for him to say that he was too scared of Martin as he sat in his car to tell him he was a neighborhood watchman, I'm not buying it at all. He's sitting there with a gun and he's afraid. Give us a break.

[Xipe Totec]

26. Or if he told the truth when he admitted he was following Trayvon

Which he later denied...

[calimary]

29. Didn't George Costanza in "Seinfeld" believe that too?

"If you really believe it, then it's not a lie!"

[marshall]

41. But isn't that the essence of the Stand Your Ground defense?

It is about what one believes to be so,that one believes they are in danger.

[yardwork]

42. That's one reason why the law is so ridiculous and leads to this kind of murder.

Allowing every disturbed individual who walks around in a state of paranoia to shoot anybody they feel like shooting is not a good approach to law and order, or fairness, or living in a reasonable society.

[ManiacJoe]

48. The belief has to be reasonable.

In self defense cases, the standard for "reasonable" is "ability, opportunity, jeopardy".

[frylock]

18. George Costanza: Jerry, just remember. It's not a lie if you believe it.

[JDPriestly]

25. He could have been telling the truth because those questions ask him for his

subjective opinions about what happened.

The questions were very poorly phrased. You can only ask lie detector questions about facts that are either objectively true or false.

The words, "confront" and afraid or fear or any similar words, are emotionally loaded. Those questions were worthless.

[jeff47]

38. A lie detector is a stress detector

There's two ways to beat it: Not be stressed when you lie, or be so stressed that the lie doesn't stand out from the background.

[meow2u3]

46. Sociopaths can also beat lie detector tests

That, and people with anxiety disorders can fail them, even when they're telling the truth. That's how come the results of lie detector tests are inadmissible in criminal court.

If they were admissible, jails would be full of innocent nervous wrecks while sociopaths would be getting off scot-free.

[Jumping John]

4. He did not tell Trayvon that he was a watch captain because he is a pathological liar and

that is why he passed the lie detector test.

He passed the test because it is normal for a pathological liar to lie, so they exhibit no stress when they lie.

[freshwest]

6. Could well be the reason, makes sense. No difference no matter how conflicted the answers were.

[Jumping John]

8. Zimmerman's lack of any emotion at all is quite revealing - especially after having just shot and

killed a person.

Most lawyers will not allow a client to take a lie detector test after any traumatic event like that because a person will have emotions ranging all over the emotional spectrum.

But Zimmerman was as cool as a cucumber, which is why he should have been given a drug screen.

[freshwest]

11. Wasn't he on psychotropic prescriptions already? Thought it was on a thread here.

[maddezmom]

14. according to reports he was on Adderall and Temazepam

http://taylormarsh.com/blog/2012/05/abc-report-george-zimmerman-injuries-described-prescription-drugs-also-cited-in-weeks-prior-to-shooting/

[freshwest]

16. He had to be under a doctor's care for those. The second one would explain his physical reactions.

It's a hard line to cross when someone is being given medication to perform their daily routine. We never want to make light of others with such needs, as they are doing the best they can. Both of those are for maintenance and both have to carefully administered.

He should not have taken it on himself to monitor people in the neighborhood. He's not incompetent, but from the acts hes's committed in other situations, he's has impulse control problems. That was likely the reason for the Adderall.

He comes off as an immature individual, with no clear comprehension of his abilities or the boundaries that he should observe with other people. To me, this is why this entire incident happened. I wouldn't saydrugs are the problem, though. He has life-long problems.

[maddezmom]

17. I don't think the the drugs were the problem but probably acerbated the incident

bottom line is Zimmerman should never have gotten out of his car...period.

[freshwest]

20. +1,000. That would have been standard procedure for most of us, stay in the car.

[ecstatic]

53. +1000. Too psycho to be a cop

That's very telling.

[JI7]

9. seems like he was looking for any chance to shoot Trayvon , just like that guy in Texas

why the fuck wouldn't you mention you are neighborhood watch or whatever the fuck he was supposed to be ?

if you are following someone and start running after them it's reasonable that person would fear you and think you had bad intentions.

[Vanje]

13. I agree

I think Zimmerman wanted to shoot someone.

[maddezmom]

15. yup a wannabee cop

off-topic: love the new avatar.

[ejpoeta]

10. there is a reason lie detector tests are not admissable in courts.

[maddezmom]

19. I was trying to look this up, is it all courts or state by state?

[ohgeewhiz]

23. No state allows admission, I think there's federal research involved in..

this sort of prohibition.

The basic facts are that Lie Detectors are not 100% reliable, as DNA is.

[maddezmom]

44. thank you for the info.

[ejpoeta]

33. i don't know. they are unreliable.

here is a snippet from a site called [ithe straight dope]:

]What's the effectiveness of a polygraph? Police departments still use them, and the feds still screen applicants using polygraphs, but the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled them invalid. Surely they can't tell if you're lying, and surely not all lies produce the exact same physiological response in every person.

Now while the reliability of a random site on the internet can be questioned, it appears that if the supreme court ruled them invalid as this person claims, then that would affect all states? I don't know for sure.

here is from wikipedia:

In 2007, polygraph testimony was admitted by stipulation in 19 states, and was subject to the discretion of the trial judge in federal court. The use of polygraph in court testimony remains controversial, although it is used extensively in post-conviction supervision, particularly of sex offenders. In Daubert v. Merrell Dow Pharmaceuticals (1993),[51] the old Frye standard was lifted and all forensic evidence, including polygraph, had to meet the new Daubert standard in which "underlying reasoning or methodology is scientifically valid and properly can be applied to the facts at issue." While polygraph tests are commonly used in police investigations in the US, no defendant or witness can be forced to undergo the test. In United States v. Scheffer (1998),[52] the U.S. Supreme Court left it up to individual jurisdictions whether polygraph results could be admitted as evidence in court cases. Nevertheless, it is used extensively by prosecutors, defense attorneys, and law enforcement agencies. In the States of Massachusetts, Maryland, New Jersey, Delaware and Iowa it is illegal for any employer to order a polygraph either as conditions to gain employment, or if an employee has been suspected of wrongdoing. The Employee Polygraph Protection Act of 1988 (EPPA) generally prevents employers from using lie detector tests, either for pre-employment screening or during the course of employment, with certain exemptions.[53]
In the United States, the State of New Mexico admits polygraph testing in front of juries under certain circumstances. In many other states, polygraph examiners are permitted to testify in front of judges in various types of hearings (Motion to Revoke Probation, Motion to Adjudicate Guilt).

[maddezmom]

45. thank you

[dougg]

22. Trayvon Martin should be a NRA hero.

Trayvon Martin should be a NRA hero.

An unarmed teenager was attacked by an armed assailant who had no credible reason to stalk him and had been told by 911 to keep away.

The latest claim is that the killer had received some lumps.

If so, the victim attempted to protect himself but could not overcome the gun wielding aggressor.

The NRA should be proclaiming to the heavens the right of victim Trayvon Martin to carry a weapon to defend himself.

[ohgeewhiz]

24. Hard to follow your logic

Trayvon Martin, innocent victim of gun violence with somehow justified motive?

Is your post just trying to show the absurdity of this event, or to argue for Trayvon, a 17 year old, being armed when going out for snacks?

I fail to follow your logic.

[pkdu]

30. Welcome to DU to both of you. You will find snark is heavy and

Not always called out (as in his case)

[libodem]

27. You'd think the Adderal

In his system would have made him jumpy and nervous as well as fucked up and paranoid. Oh well. Might have helped him pass by amping up all his vitals.

[TroglodyteScholar]

28. Did you look up the other drug that was in his system?

He was speedballin' legally.

[libodem]

31. nope

Can you remember what it was? Fucker was all hopped up. I had him figured for a 'roid rage.

[TroglodyteScholar]

34. I think I recall seeing that it was temazepam

In the same class as Valium, Xanax, and Klonopin.

So he was on speed and downers at the same time. No way any clear thought was taking place inside of that skull.

[libodem]

35. no shit?

It is a legal speedball. Like the old combos of speed and barbiturates, only with a benzodiazapine.

[JoeyT]

39. Uh, benzos counteract the jumpiness and jitters that can come from ADHD medications.

I've been on a combination of Ritalin and Alprazolam (Xanax) before, and my thought processes were just fine, thanks.

Of course the dose makes the poison, and none of us have any idea how much of anything he had in his system.

[TroglodyteScholar]

47. You have your opinion and I have mine.

Prescribed amphetamines are not supposed to make you jittery. If you need them, they level you out. If you get jittery, you either need a lower dosage or a different med, not some cocktail of uppers and downers. This just blows the door wide open for abuse.

I'm not doctor--this is just based on my personal experience. I think it's pretty irresponsible to counter one drug's side effects with another drug unless the first drug is absolutely necessary for some kind of chronic or life threatening condition.

[Quixote1818]

32. I think based on this new stuff manslaughter is almost certain in this case

Not sure about murder II but this seems like manslaughter easily.

[libodem]

37. most polygraphs

Are indeterminate if Xanax is drug screened out. It dampens the anxieties associated with lying. Plus he's pathological with the flight of fantasy ability to lie his ass off. He probably believes his lies by now. Doesn't know reality from a made up version. Psychotic. Maybe he should go with temporary insanity, and blame the drugs?

[ohgeewhiz]

49. Interesting ideas! Great concepts!

Polygraphs, of course, cannot be administered when subjects are on drugs, alcohol, or even if they are simply pregnant women.

This guy didn't get a full polygraph, drug free, with proper protocol, he got a screening device that flags major lies, through voice analysis. I think that's all he got. Perhaps I'm wrong, but the initial screen was a voice screen, not a real polygraph.


He should plead guilty to second degree, get a 20-30 year sentence with parole after 12-18 years.

That's his best way out of this, he will be protected in prison, due to his notoriety, people will forget about him in 12 years. He will have a fine second half of his life somewhere, probably with $1 million in defense contributions he gets from the stupid NRA folks. He can save the defense funds, invest them, pay taxes on them in 2012 or 2013, and still come out a millionaire in 2027.

[libodem]

51. Soul cringing

To think he could profit in any way from this. I hope Travon's family is filing a million dollar civil suit.

The family should get a million for every milestone occurrence that this family will miss out on. The graduations, wedding careers, children, grandchildren, promotions, church callings.. Everything that family will now miss out on because someone killed their son in cold blood.

[ohgeewhiz]

52. Those are civil suits, and I favor them

No $ to GZ, ever, for his killing of an unarmed teenager.

I think it might make it through the civil courts in 5 years, forcing the defense attorneys to give up all the $ they took in in defense of this slug liar cop wannabe.

But I suspect that, in FL, somehow the victim's family will have a hard time prevailing in that civil case.

Just my view of lack of justice in FL.

[MrSlayer]

36. Lie detector machines are complete bullshit.

There is nothing scientific or rational about them. It's a parlor trick, a hoax.

[JoeyT]

40. +1

I don't know why they didn't call in a psychic to ask the spirit world if he was guilty while they were at it.

[ohgeewhiz]

50. Actually, there is! They have some scientific significance!

I guess you were never trained as a polygrapher!

In the training, you have to be polygraphed.

You are told to tell the truth in one session, and told to lie in another.

99% of the time, it, (the lying) shows up.

That's pretty good accuracy.

By the way, sometimes, when people are told to tell the truth, they lie, and the polygraph picks them out.

Questions like: "have you ever been unfaithful to your wife?"

Just sayin

[Blue_Tires]

43. Finally, confirmation...

"Still, Serino in that report faulted Zimmerman for twice passing up the chance to tell the 17-year-old that he was a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, something that may well have defused the situation."

Exactly like I predicted from day one...I'm getting bored of being right without any shit-stirrers and concern trolls to "correct" me...Damn, these threads have been quiet...

I'm going on hiatus soon, (and Zimmerman's window of 'reasonable doubt' is closing) so you won't have too many more chances...Does anyone still want to say I'm jumping to conclusions?? Does anyone still want to throw around the term "witch hunt?" Does any wannabe sanctimonious jerkoff (completely lacking any sense of irony) still want to post photos of a lynch mob, as if it completely invalidates my arguments?