Edward Snowden makes 'moral' case for presidential pardon

[bananas]

Source: Guardian

Exclusive: Whistleblower says citizens have benefited from his disclosure in 2013 of US and UK government surveillance

Edward Snowden has set out the case for Barack Obama granting him a pardon before the US president leaves office in January, arguing that the disclosure of the scale of surveillance by US and British intelligence agencies was not only morally right but had left citizens better off.

The US whistleblower’s comments, made in an interview with the Guardian, came as supporters, including his US lawyer, stepped up a campaign for a presidential pardon. Snowden is wanted in the US, where he is accused of violating the Espionage Act and faces at least 30 years in jail.

<snip>

Obama’s former attorney general Eric Holder, however, gave an unexpected boost to the campaign for a pardon in May when he said Snowden had performed a public service.

The campaign could receive a further lift from Oliver Stone’s film, Snowden, scheduled for release in the US on Friday. Over the weekend the director said he hoped the film would help shift opinion behind the whistleblower, and added his voice to the plea for a pardon.

Ahead of general release, the film will be shown in 700 cinemas across the US on Wednesday, with plans for Stone and Snowden to join in a discussion afterwards via a video link.

<snip>

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/13/edward-snowden-why-barack-obama-should-grant-me-a-pardon

---

He deserves a full pardon and a heroes welcome.

[bananas]

1. ACLU and Amnesty International seek presidential pardon for Snowden

From yesterday:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37341804

Edward Snowden: ACLU and Amnesty seek presidential pardon
12 September 2016

Two of the most prominent human rights organisations in the United States are about to launch a campaign for the presidential pardon of Edward Snowden.

The American Civil Liberties Union and Amnesty International are ready to launch the "Pardon Snowden" campaign.

They are urging President Barack Obama to act before he leaves office in January 2017.

The launch this week coincides with the release of an Oliver Stone biopic about the former NSA contractor.

The campaign group has created a website, pardonsnowden.org, though its content remains behind a password-protected login. The campaign has also registered social media accounts in preparation for the launch.



<snip>

[still_one]

30. and if the Democrats lose the election in November because of this pardon

what would the ACLU's answer be?

It sure would keep them in job security with a Trump Presidency, but it would screw millions of people if such a reckless action was taken before the most important election in our lifetime

[brooklynite]

2. How about he acknowledges his criminal actions and returns to the US before getting his Pardon?

[MelSC]

3. He deserves nothing

Sorry guys, come on.

[democrattotheend]

17. He deserves a fair trial

Which thus far he has not been offered because the government claims it will jeopardize national security.

[joshcryer]

4. He should be pardoned, but to say he helped matters is overstating it.

There has been no legislation to crack down on NSA overreach. Only minor structure changes.

[Me.]

5. What Foreign Powers Did He Hand the Info To?

If any, which I think many suspect, the little traitor can sleep in the bed he made in Russia

[cstanleytech]

6. Some could and probably would argue that he gave information to both

China and Russia. The first so as not to turn him over to the US and the second to provide him a safe haven.
As for the pardon, I personally am opposed to any consideration of such until he turns himself in and has a trial and if he found guilty then a pardon should be considered based upon what if anything he is found guilty for.

[jmowreader]

34. Any foreign power with an internet connection

[ucrdem]

7. Talk about shameless.

Maybe he can move in with the Hinkleys.

[aka-chmeee]

8. He should be granted the freedom to return to the United States

and free room and board in the resort at Leavenworth, KS

[reznor73]

9. So much SnowdenRage(tm)

I hope Obama does it but I doubt he will. Not getting the SnowdenRage - our country has been slowly turning into a police state.

There's no chance in hell Snowden would get a fair trial here. It's a kangaroo court system for these types of events. Just look at Manning and where she ended up and how she's been treated.

From interviews I've heard - Snowden isn't particularly thrilled about landing in Russia and there's no evidence he's given over evidence.

[Adrahil]

10. No need for a trial.

He doesn't deny he did it. Strike a plea deal and get it over with.

And whatever "service" he rendered, he also revealed WAY more info on perfectly legal foreign intelligence operations. He committed a serious crime. NO PARDON. NO CLEMENCY.

[randome]

12. We like our heroes to have a good head on their shoulders.

Snowden and Greenwald's first 'revelation' was about Prism, which they mistakenly thought was a way to basically download the Internet on a daily basis instead of a secure means of transmitting data from providers to the NSA (with legal authorization, apparently.)

For me, that was all it took to label him as a dullard who hadn't thought things through. His actions since then, his constant whining about how unfair people are to him, his inability to finish things in his personal life, even his 'dumping' of his girlfriend (wonder where she is now?) identifies him as a loner who dreamed of being a hero.

He didn't do anything 'courageous', he did something scary. There is a difference.

IMO.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

[Blue_Tires]

11. Bullshit... Not going to happen, nor should it happen

Let him keep his "hero's welcome" in Moscow

And because everyone keeps forgetting: Even if he was pardoned today, he isn't going anywhere -- The Russians *OWN* his bitch ass and he isn't leaving while he still has use for them...

[FairWinds]

13. Snowden is a patriot . .

I salute him . .

Again, it's remarkable that the anti-Snowden crowd NEVER
has any problem with Clapper, Petraeus, Armitage, Libby and etc.

Leads one to believe that their real motive is protecting the
Powers That Be.

It'e either that or truly mind boggling hypocrisy.

[Fla Dem]

19. We have no idea what secrets he gave to China or Russia.

You can't tell me he's been granted political asylum by the Russian state and they haven't demanded their pound of flesh. If he wasn't going to give them intelligence info, there was no way they would allow him to stay.

Same way with China. Why'd they take him in? Because he had something to barter with, American intel.

Connect the dots that within a year or so of being granted asylum in Russia, many US companies, government agencies and other organizations, like the DNC have been hacked by Russian operatives.

He may have exposed domestic surveillance, but he also betrayed his country and put all our citizens at risk.

[FairWinds]

21. But we DO know what Clapper. Petraeus, . .

Libby, Armitage, etc. gave them - TOP SECRET INFO !!

But you would rather speculate based on no facts at all.

You anti-Snowden types really puzzle me.

You want to hang Snowden, Manning, etc., but you
are quiet as a churchmouse about leaks from people
with powerful connections.

[haele]

24. That's not quite what I remember from over 15 years on DU ...

Clapper, Petraeus, Armitage, Libby, etc..have all been roundly excoriated here. No excuses for them, either. Remember Fitzmas, and the frustration and meltdowns that went on, when no one was charged, because charging them would have bust the whole criminal organization open?

Maybe you're mistaking government reactions for DU reactions. But here in DU, pretty much everyone knew and had strong opinions against anything to do with the TIA strategy (a Reagan/Bush/Poindexter program that is the basis US cyber strategies from the 1990's to current) the NSA was pursuing - including Snowden, whose own email trails indicates he was proudly a member of the NSA doing the same job for a good 3 years or so, and complaining that whistleblower hackers like Manning should be punished like the traitors they were - until, of course, November of 2008. A little too much to make you go hmmm....

He's got just as much to answer for as any of those named above.

- Yay, he officially exposed the not-so-secret NSA spying programs he had been working as a local site sysadmin for. Seriously, good on him. Even though a good number of the public was already protesting the NSA programs, by bringing tangible evidence to light, he exposed a lack of transparency and oversight, and possible prosecutable activity in an organization that was being paid through taxpayer funds.

Boo, he worked that job for years until there was an election and he suddenly didn't like the government he was working for. Not to mention that he didn't flee to more neutral countries, he fled to countries that had cyber network spying and hacking programs that are just as sophisticated as anything the NSA had.
If he had fled to Ecuador, who would have given him asylum, or some other country that isn't so actively playing cyber footsie with the US government and economy, I'd be a bit more sympathetic to him.

Even heroes aren't allowed to avoid responsibility for their actions just because they're the hero of a large group of people.

The thing to ask yourself is - does the supposed good he did outweigh the supposed bad he did? What has happened - not just to National Security, but to the average American - as a result of his leak of NSA processes and programs to China and Russia?
Both countries want to take the US down a few pegs - say to the political level of Spain or Brazil - and be able to take over as "arbitrator of World policies". While some may say we deserve to lose our "world leader" position, there'd be a lot of local impact we and the rest of the world will be feeling for a long time in terms of world economy once we do fall. Don't know if it will be better in the long run, but I do know it will be painful in the short term.

As for Clapper, Petraeus, Armitage, Libby, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzalez, Rice, et all - they should all be rotting in jail - after being found guilty in a honest trial with an impartial but educated jury, of course...

Haele

[FairWinds]

25. Thank you very much . .

for keeping this debate civil.

I'll read your post carefully, and respond - politely - as soon as
the grandkids leave.

[beaglelover]

14. No, I don't think so! You made your damn bed, now enjoy sleeping in it!

In beautiful Russia. No pardon for you!

[FigTree]

15. I think what he is really asking

is to be able to move around and settle somewhere else in peace. It's like Salman Rushdie seeking an amended fatwa.
He cannot and will not get a pardon. I am assuming he is intelligent enough to know that.

[Blue_Tires]

16. I will admit one good thing about a pardon

is that the Snowdenistas and emoprogs who have been pissing on Obama the past four years will have to kiss the ring...

[Tarheel_Dem]

18. Snowden's allies thought they could bully Pres. Obama into a pardon. It's been a couple of years....

since that petition made its way to the White House, and it's been completely ignored. And I say Bravo!!!! Let Snowden's privileged white ass rot away in Moscow forever. Not many criminals, especially minorities, can afford to leave the country to escape justice. He should be treated just like any one of them.

[still_one]

28. Those calling for Snowden's pardon are either unaware or don't care that

such an action would hurt the Democrats badly in November, and the stakes are too important for that. If nothing else the Supreme Court.

This election is far more important than Snowden, that will affect the lives of millions for decades to come

[Sunlei]

32. Snowdens not ignored, use white house search enter snowdens name & there arethousands of mentions

like this one

Q Eric Holder said in a podcast over the weekend that Edward Snowden had performed a public service by leaking documents about the classified NSA's program, while criticizing his methods. I'm wondering if the President agrees with that assessment.

MR. EARNEST: Well, the President has had the opportunity to speak on this a number of times, and I think a careful review of his public comments would indicate that he does not. Everybody here at the White House who had the opportunity to work with Attorney General Holder certainly respects his work, certainly respects his knowledge and view of the law. And I would point out that even Mr. Holder pointed out in that interview, "He's broken the law. In my view, he needs to get lawyers, come on back and decide what he wants to do -- go to trial, try to cut a deal. I think there has to be a consequence for what he has done."



https://www.whitehouse.gov/ <---search bar is on top right.

Snowden

[Blue_Tires]

20. There is no "moral" case

any more than there was a "moral" case for pardoning Nixon...

If Snowden gets pardoned, it will be because the president wants the nation to move on and put it behind us (just like Nixon)...

[still_one]

29. If Snowden doesn't get pardoned, the main reason is because the President does not

want the Democrats to lose. The stakes are far too large, and as much as some would like to view this as simple thing, it isn't

[FairWinds]

22. But you anti-Snowden types . .

had no objections at all when the Feds gave
Petraeus a slap on the wrist (not to mention Libby, Armitage, etc.)

When your principles are so "flexible," can you really be said
to have any?

[randome]

33. Petraeus did not flee the country and hand off documents to foreign nationals.

The two cases are not even remotely comparable. Intent is the key. Snowden intended to steal and disseminate. Petraeus was 'simply' careless around his mistress.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[FairWinds]

35. Betray-us also lied to the FBI . .

He intended to not give a shit about the ethics of his
job, or national security.

So you are fine with his slap on the wrist?

Then what about JOHN KIRIAKOU ? He got 30 months for
exposing torture . .

[randome]

37. I agree that Petraeus should have gotten more of a punishment.

But I still maintain his case and Snowden's are vastly different. And Kiriakou did a lot more leaking than just about Zubaydah's torture. He also named specific individuals and lied to protect his book deal. There should be consequences for putting specific CIA individuals in danger, and there were.

All 3 cases are different. Just because Snowden wants to call himself a 'whistleblower' doesn't mean he is one, anymore than James O'Keefe gets to call himself a 'journalist'.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[FairWinds]

38. Do not fully agree . .

mostly because I think we need MORE whistle-blowing,
much more . .

For example, in 2002-3 you know damn well there were
Intel people who knew the Bush admin was lying about everything.
(If I knew it, they HAD to know it.)

If they had spoken up, leaked, etc. we would not have ISIS
around today.

Same with Vietnam (I'm a vet) - the whole thing was a giant
edifice of lies.

But thank for keeping this discussion civil.

[FairWinds]

23. So here is that damning evidence on Snowden released by the House Intel Committee . .

He may have called in sick improperly, and cc'd the wrong person at NSA in an email . .

That's all they got? Really?

From Common Dreams . .

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/09/16/house-intel-report-snowden-dismissed-laughable-smear-attempt

"The report appeared to focus on supposed workplace transgressions Snowden committed while working for the NSA, such as cc'ing a higher-level manager on an email thread reporting a critical problem with CIA software, "doctoring performance evaluations" when he was in fact reporting that the evaluation program was susceptible to hacking, and calling in sick when he was leaking the documents detailing the NSA's extensive global wiretapping of private citizens."

[still_one]

26. Ignoring the merits or demerits, there is no way he is going to get it just before the

most important election of our lifetime

The President knows if he did it, the Democrats would lose big time.

The stakes with the Supreme Court, the country, and the world are too important right now that will affect millions.

The only thing pardoning Snowden would due is guarantee a republican landslide

[metroins]

27. He can go f himself

There were better avenues for him to go through.

He deserves to be prosecuted.

[yallerdawg]

31. We should do all we can to discourage 'whistleblowing.'

We can sleep better when we do.

[Old Vet]

36. Are people so ignorant as to think Russia and Chinia ...........

Would help him without some classified information in exchange, Really????? No ifs, ands, or buts, There were other ways to bring light to this countries activities without getting Russia and Chinia involved. Snowden is a traitor period IMHO...............