At least 9 California clubbers die after fire breaks out at warehouse dance party

[milestogo]

Source: NYDaily News

At least nine people died at a California dance party late Friday when a massive fire broke out at the warehouse space where dozens of clubbers had gathered, officials said.

Another 13 people are missing following the mid-rave blaze, the East Bay Times reported.

Fire officials have not yet been able to search the entire building, which was still burning early Saturday, so the death toll could rise.

We dont know the potential number of other victims, Fire Chief Teresa Deloche-Reed told the newspaper.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/fire-breaks-calif-dance-party-killing-multiple-people-article-1.2897249

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[exboyfil]

1. I wonder how many of these incidents we would hav

if we got rid of those pesky regulations like fire codes. Trump is very much against fire codes.

[LisaM]

3. Good point.

And in these sad stories, there is usually some violation.

[JudyM]

11. Well, if the only way out of the 2nd floor is a staircase made of pallets, what could go wrong?

[philosslayer]

4. The Trump effect is going to be quite pervasive

As morbid as it sounds, if we're going to keep a "Trump Death Count", these poor folks might be the first on the list.

[exboyfil]

6. I am not sure I agree with including them in the Trump effect

This serves as a warning as why we have regulations instead. I guess we would have to know more about the situation to know if code violations actually occurred or whether there should have been code that could have prevented the tragedy.

Another big one to keep track of is the changes to truckers amount of time they can drive. Republicans are pushing for 10 more hours (taking it to over 70 I think) because not enough truckers can be found. Funny how the free market never works when employers want cheaper labor.

[wordpix]

24. CNN report today says bldg. owners cited for code violations

before the fire.

[EL34x4]

5. Good grief, Trump has nothing to do with this.

Try to have a little dignity.

[exboyfil]

7. I am not saying he did

I am showing a possible example of why regulations are important. A warehouse with a dance party - I think they may have been violating occupancy guidelines and possibly even regulations. Trump is on record slamming regulations about occupancy limits in rooms - regulations in place to ensure everyone can get out in the event of a fire. He is also on record citing that a big drag on employment opportunities are regulations.

[yardwork]

26. Protecting life is dignified. It's reasonable to point out that Trump hates regulations.

There could be a lot more tragedies like this if Trump and his appointees get their way.

[jberryhill]

42. Trump has nothing to do with the indifference to human life shown by this "artist"

[BigBadDem]

47. Well than this is on Obama, he is the one in charge.

Do you think all this was setup just after Trump was elected?

Let me guess, it will be Trump's fault when he is in charge, but it isn't Obama's fault when he is in charge...it just doesn't work that way. Same goes for the Democrats that run CA.

Personally, i think those that setup this catastrophe (The artists) are to blame not Trump or Obama but I guess that isn't shared.

[yardwork]

50. Bullshit. Obama has not tried to do away with safety regulations.

Please point to one statement or action on the part of President Obama indicating that he wants to get rid of government regulations.

Trump, on the other hand, built his campaign around promises to get rid of "intrusive government regulations."

[BeyondGeography]

14. That's your first thought?

[exboyfil]

15. No.

But I remember Trump hectoring fire marshals during his campaign. That infuriated me for just this reason. In another thread I posted a story about the growth of these events, and officials concern about the safety aspects of them.

Our role is to support laws and regulations that minimize this kind of tragedy. Regulations, if you take Trump at his word, are anathema to him. Particularly it seems fire codes limiting occupancy in rooms.

[EL34x4]

22. Laws and regulations...

...are the reason people throw illegal parties in the first place. That's how it was when I was young. It's how it is today. People like having fun.

Not really sure what reasonable new laws are needed to stop unlicensed warehouse raves that aren't already in place.

Don't know why Trump is getting inserted into this awful tragedy. Sometimes bad things just happen.

[jberryhill]

32. "Sometimes bad things just happen" - This place was clearly a firetrap

Zoom in and check out the electrical wiring:







Others here: http://sfist.com/2016/12/03/pre-fire_photos_from_inside_oakland.php

This didn't "just happen".

Some criminal shit-for-brains with no regard for human life caused this to happen.

You don't crowd people into a second floor accessible via a stack of wooden pallets into a space that looks like this:

[EL34x4]

33. Wow. I just assumed it was an empty warehouse.

No doubt about it, that place must've went up like the Hindenburg.

[jberryhill]

34. This was criminal

Do you know, that you can even buy inexpensive automatic fire extinguishers, and extinguisher balls that pop open with fire suppressant when heated?

This was fucking criminal. There are exposed wires terminated in wire nuts in one of the other pictures.

[jmowreader]

38. Do you know, those balls are $230 apiece?

Very cool idea, but how many "art collectives" that can't afford three bucks for a junction box would spend $230 on a fire extinguisher?

[jberryhill]

40. How large was this event and how many have they had?

[jmowreader]

41. Large, and I don't know

But it doesn't really matter: if they're too fucking cheap to do their wiring the right way, and too fucking cheap to build a staircase out of something besides used pallets stacked one atop the other, they sure as hell aren't going to spend the kind of money it would take to buy fire suppression equipment.

[sweetapogee]

52. I'm a volly firefighter

with a lot of paper and many years in the service. There is a product called FIT-5, made for the fire service. Last time I checked it was about $1200.00 This device will suppress a room and contents fire in a residential structure for a limited amount of time.

What we are talking about here is big (room/contents) fire, it (the FIT-5) is designed to buy time and will not put a fire out, it just starves the fire of oxygen for a few minutes. I imagine that once the fire in this warehouse was discovered it was quite large. There was a huge fireload in the pictures we have available to us. There are stories of party goers that left and returned after a short time to find the warehouse fully involved. In freeburn, a general rule is that a fire doubles in size every 60 seconds.

You still have all the smoke, CO and heat with a FIT-5. A first arriving firefighter deploy this device from the outside, it is tossed through a window. Inside it would be very difficult for laymen without SCBA, training and being exposed to massive amounts of smoke and heat to use this device effectively.

There is nothing on this earth that compares to being inside an enclosed room that has a lot of smoke, heat and flames. The firefighters first on-scene were unable to make their way to the victims and those firefighters had full turnout gear, air, thermal imaging cameras, water and a lot of training/experience. Under the circumstances, the only hope would have been for early detection and a convenient egress.

The Oakland FD put 1000s of gallons of water on this fire, no portable chemical device will do much of anything once the room flashes over. If it turns out the fire started on the first floor there would have been basically no chance for those on the second floor even if they had charged firehoses, bunkers and SCBA. The only option is to evacuate quickly.

[wordpix]

46. lots of wood to burn. A great space for musicians but not a crowd

[wordpix]

49. we don't need no regulations! Hysterical RWers base decisions on emotions, not evidence

Their statement on this will be: "We have regulations, they weren't followed, ergo, we don't need regs" or some such BS.

[Lucky Luciano]

2. Wow - that is awful. nt

[exboyfil]

8. Here is an article talking about the trend of unregulated dance parties

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/28/us/after-hour-parties-spread-in-los-angeles.html

Relevant quote:

There are serious risks associated with parties in unlicensed locations: In 1990, a fire killed 87 people inside an illegal New York club.

One recent warehouse party here ended suddenly when a fire alarm went off. Although it turned out there was no fire, for a moment a stampede seemed possible as hundreds pushed toward a lone exit.

“Most have no permits whatsoever,” Detective Moore said.

But in a city often self-conscious about its cultural relevance, partygoers and promoters alike argue that Los Angeles needs the kind of vibrant late-night life that is common in places like New York, London and Barcelona.

[wordpix]

48. thanking myself I didn't let my 17 y.o. go to a rave 15 yrs ago

My main issue was the location was over an hour away and these parties go on into the wee hours. I did not want him on the roads, or taking the openly sold drugs.

[deurbano]

9. What a tragedy. RIP.

[ailsagirl]

10. Hadn't hear about that

[LuckyLib]

12. Most important info needed for context: Oakland.

[CreekDog]

13. Explain

[LuckyLib]

19. I'm from CA. It's a huge state. I simply wanted

wanted to know where without opening link.

[FarCenter]

21. It was the Oakland Ghost Ship at 31st Avenue and International Boulevard

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Building-of-fatal-fire-was-known-as-The-10689319.php

[CreekDog]

25. BS, now explain why "Oakland" was needed for "context"

[LuckyLib]

30. Wow. I simply wanted to know where

[CreekDog]

53. Nope, more BS, Oakland was in the Original Post from the beginning and well-before you posted

Not sure what you're up to...

[JonLP24]

54. I don't see Oakland in the OP

The link has Oakland in there but the 4 paragraphs posted don't mention Oakland.

[EL34x4]

16. Authorities are now expecting 40 dead.

At least 25 missing. More info with photos of the missing here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3996676/Clubbers-feared-trapped-California-warehouse-party-blaze-breaks-out.html

[milestogo]

17. OMG what a nightmare

NO sprinklers or working smoke detectors

[FarCenter]

20. A single stairway from the second floor would seem to be a code violation.

Deloach-Reed said that fire crews found a 'makeshift stairwell' between the first and second floor and that most people who died were on the second floor of the building.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3996676/Clubbers-feared-trapped-California-warehouse-party-blaze-breaks-out.html

[jmowreader]

36. Especially one made out of old wooden pallets!

[still_one]

18. The place didn't have a sprinkler system

[zz-la]

23. I wonder if pyrotechnics had something to do with this

I remember a whale back a night club in New Jersey had a terrible fire when a bands pyro went off and caught the room they were playing in on fire. Not sure if that is the cause here, but I know a lot of these bands and clubs like to use pyrotechnics in their performances and this is one thing that could lead to a massive fire.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

27. You're probably thinking of

The Station nightclub fire

The Station nightclub fire occurred on Thursday, February 20, 2003, in West Warwick, Rhode Island. The fire was caused by pyrotechnics set off by the tour manager of the evening's headlining band Great White, which ignited flammable sound insulation polyurethane foam in the walls and ceilings surrounding the stage. A fast-moving fire with intense black smoke engulfed the club in 5½ minutes. Video footage of the fire shows its ignition, rapid growth, the billowing smoke that quickly made escape impossible, and the exit blockage that further hindered evacuation. The toxic smoke, heat and the stampede of people toward the exits killed 100; 230 were injured and another 132 escaped uninjured. Many of the survivors developed posttraumatic stress disorder as a result of psychological trauma.

Others:

List of nightclub fires

We just passed the 74th anniversary of this one:

Cocoanut Grove fire

[FailureToCommunicate]

31. My mother worked for years with the victims and families of the Cocoanut Grove fire in

Boston November 1942. So many of our current building fire codes and occupancy regulations came into being as a result.

Alas, they are too often ignored or not enforced and tragedies like this Oakland fire occur.

[milestogo]

28. Doesn't sound like it.

Reports of the party being a wild rave were wrong, said people who were there. They said a deejay was upstairs playing music, with some people dancing, a woman painting nails for anyone who wanted, and many sitting on couches talking in a space reminiscent of a Bedouin tent.

It was calm and relaxed, they said.

A cover of $10 that rose to $15 after 11 p.m. was meant to help the artists pay for rent, a common practice for Oakland collectives.

On the first floor of the building, named the “Ghost Ship” by residents, was what looked like a pirate’s steering wheel, near the staircase. Living lofts were divided by pieces of wood found around the world.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Survivors-of-deadly-Oakland-fire-say-they-are-10689539.php

[jberryhill]

35. This place WAS a pyrotechnic device

[milestogo]

37. Looking at the pictures, I don't see anything that looked like a staircase.

It's just a giant loft.

Did people actually climb a scaffolding to get up to and down from the second floor?

[jberryhill]

43. From descriptions it sounds like a ladder with planks from pallets

[LisaL]

45. I don't think they had pyrotechnics in there. Place was covered with wood.

[MattP]

29. I used to go to break in underground clubs in the late 80's early 90's

In LA BR (before rehab)

[milestogo]

39. Former Occupant Calls Oakland Warehouse That Burned 'Sketchy,' 'Unsafe'

"The big problem there is that it was full of these wooden objects and no sprinklers — nothing. Pretty much one lone cigarette would've put the place up," he told NBC News in a phone interview. Oakland officials confirmed there did not appear to be a sprinkler system. The fire at the warehouse erupted at around 11:24 p.m. local time (2:24 a.m. ET) as a party was being held on the second floor, officials said. During the fire the roof collapsed onto the second floor, and portions of that floor collapsed onto the ground level.

<snip>

"Even if you ran downstairs, it was difficult to find the exit," he said. "You had to go through a couple twists and turns. It was a labyrinth. There was no clear exit from the second story." Perhaps most problematic was the makeshift stairwell, which was built of wooden pallets and spare pieces of wood, according to the former resident. Hoffman said there was a single staircase to the second floor.

<snip>

"There was a single staircase accessing the mezzanine, it was apparently constructed out of wood and was on fire when the crews entered," Hoffman said, adding that the crews were unable to reach the second floor because of the blaze.

Josette Melchor, executive director of a foundation for the arts who is raising money for people impacted by the fire, said she has been at the warehouse and described access to the second floor as "there was literally this ladder thing you had to climb up."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/former-occupant-calls-oakland-warehouse-burned-sketchy-unsafe-n691591

Those poor people didn't stand a chance.

[muriel_volestrangler]

44. Oakland fire: 24 confirmed dead as search continues

Twenty-four bodies have so far been recovered from a warehouse in Oakland, California, following a deadly fire during a party, officials say.

Only 20% of the building has been searched and "a significant number" of people are still missing, they said.
...
Oakland fire chief Teresa Deloche-Reed said between 50 and 100 people were inside the venue when the fire started late on Friday.
...
The building did not have a sprinkler system and firefighters did not hear any alarms when they arrived, Ms Deloche-Reed said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38201172

[Eugene]

51. Death toll from Oakland 'Ghost Ship' warehouse fire rises to 30

Source: The Guardian

Death toll from Oakland 'Ghost Ship' warehouse fire rises to 30

Alan Yuhas in Oakland
Sunday 4 December 2016 20.29 GMT

Oakland officials on Sunday increased the death toll of a warehouse fire to 30 people, as recovery teams continued their search of the fragile, burned-out building where an unauthorized party became the scene of one of the worst disasters in the city’s history.

At an afternoon briefing, a spokesman for the Alameda county sheriff, Sergeant Ray Kelly, said 30 people had been confirmed killed and that investigators were still methodically “dissecting” the collapsed sections of the building, in the Fruitvale neighborhood.

“Not all families (of the deceased) are from inside the Bay Area or even from the state,” said police spokeswoman Johanna Watson, adding that some appeared to be from outside the US.

Earlier on Sunday, an unofficial list of those unaccounted for, compiled by friends and family searching for loved ones, still showed about 30 names.

[font size=1]-snip-[/font]

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/04/oakland-ghost-ship-warehouse-fire-deaths-24