Trump promised to bring back coal jobs. That promise will not be kept, experts say.

[riversedge]

Source: washington post




By Darryl Fears March 29 at 8:00 AM



..............................With coal miners gathered around him, Trump signed an executive order rolling back a temporary ban on mining coal and a stream protection rule imposed by the Obama administration. The order follows the president’s campaign promise to revive the struggling coal industry and bring back thousands of lost mining jobs in rural America.

“I made them this promise,” Trump said, “we will put our miners back to work.”

...........................

As power companies switch fuels, “the amount of coal in the national energy generation mix (both Fuels and Electricity Generation) has declined by 53 percent since 2006,” according to a Department of Energy report released in January. Over the same period, electricity generation from natural gas increased 33 percent.

The shift was mirrored by employment, with jobs in natural gas and other cleaner energy resources rising and coal jobs declining, the report said. It cited a Bureau of Labor Statistics analysis showing that coal mining and support employment declined by nearly 40 percent between March 2009 and March 2016...................................

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/03/29/trump-promised-to-bring-back-coal-jobs-that-promise-will-not-be-kept-experts-say/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_coaljobs-923a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.be76089ac1e7

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[The West’s largest coal fired power plant is closing. Not even Trump can save it.]

Trump heralds 'new era in American energy' with climate actions
Play Video2:33
Flanked by cabinet members and coal miners, President Trump introduced and signed an executive order on March 28, that revokes Obama-era climate regulations and puts "an end to the war on coal,” he said. (The White House)

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. Removed regs that protect the miners also.

I guess they wont understand that until they start dying.

[Initech]

3. Even then, they won't.

The almighty dollar is the only thing that matters to them. Workers? They're expendable. And they will take the shitty jobs with the shitty hours and the shitty working conditions and like it!

[Eliot Rosewater]

4. We are close to losing all protections. Stupid people dont get it yet.

[atreides1]

13. They will die smiling!!!

And to be honest, since my grandchildren and their children will be poisoned because of these miners, the faster they die, the better I'll feel!!!!

[IronLionZion]

17. GOP has built that into their models somehow

they know their own voters will die from their policies. They are fine with it. They think they'll gain new voters elsewhere. And you have to admit they expanded their map to pick up new states and congressional seats somehow.

The 2020 census might show a dramatic loss of population in some coal states.

[Initech]

2. Is there anything they are being honest about?

[tenorly]

5. As with many other indicators, we were definitely going in the right direction under Obama on this.

When it comes to coal, our policy should be to shut'er down. This isn't 1890.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. Highest employment in coal mining was 1920s. Highest production was 1950s. Not coming back. . . nt

[33taw]

7. It would help the Democratic Party to engage some of these folks and see how we can help them.

I know that many of us think they were fools for backing Trump, but maybe they need help. Their mining jobs will not be back, but what industries can replace their jobs? How can we help them? Just watching Trump fail won't be enough.

[atreides1]

15. Here's the problem

They don't want our help...they want to keep doing what has been a family tradition for at least the last century! They don't want change, they want the good old days!!!

And they're prepared to die in those mines, to preserve a way of life that they can easily recognize!!!


It's very difficult to change the mind of someone who doesn't want to change...

[IronLionZion]

19. The Dem plans are train for new jobs and/or move

liberals move all the time. It's in our nature for many of us. Migration for jobs has shaped and reshaped the demographics of this country throughout our history.

Conservatives often grow deep roots somehow. No one is going to buy their houses. They can't afford houses in growing areas or to pay for training.

Many of them in Appalachia aren't even racist. They are just more focused on their own struggles which are definitely very real.

[FakeNoose]

8. What Trump forgot to say was

... they're gonna become waiters in Trump hotels.

Because there ARE NO JOBS in the coal industry.



Sorry guys, you voted for the wrong guy.

[33taw]

9. It is easy to mock the people and groups that voted for Trump, but what will be the gain?

It is time to start acknowledging their needs. Sure, getting rid of coal makes total sense, but not if you are a miner. If Trump offers them a waiter job, it is more than our laughing at them. They have one vote just like each of us.

[BumRushDaShow]

11. Our candidate DID offer solutions to their needs

but they chose to vote for the great white hope who told them that "other people" who didn't look like them, were at fault.

[IronLionZion]

16. Nothing else offers them the pay and lifestyle of coal mining.

And it is a lot to ask them to move or pay for training for something else. It's a big change for many multi-generational miners. I know some who have done both, but there are millions who can't or won't adapt to the modern economy.

Free market capitalism killed coal due to competition from cheap natural gas and more efficient technology.

Similar stories come from the rust belt with manufacturing. Consumers can either pay more for American products or deal with job losses. They can't compete with lower costs overseas.

[BumRushDaShow]

26. The steel workers went through similar in Pittsburgh

although Pittsburgh was able to develop an alternative industry (hospital/clinical). However some of the differences here also relate to "urban" vs "rural" and that will be the tougher nut to crack with respect to adaptation.

HOWEVER, you had millions of AAs migrate out of the south from farms and and other agricultural occupations in rural areas, to flee Jim Crow laws and take on industrial jobs in the urban areas, post-WW1, through WW2, and until the latter part of the 20th century (there is currently a reverse migration happening at the moment). No "politician" gave a shit about trying to help this "adaptation" process for whatever reasons, as it was historically something that people did throughout the history of this country - move to where the jobs were. So it's not like it's something that can't be done.

If anything, some of the skills that they may have would benefit infrastructure projects - notably those that require tunneling through mountains/hills.

[IronLionZion]

30. Some skills might transfer to oil/gas jobs

since the administration promotes fracking and shale drilling. And some of them could find work in their home states while others move to North Dakota.

Trump's brilliant plan for AAs is to have them replace the deported undocumented immigrants in low paying jobs like migrant farm work, housekeeping, gardening, etc. that have hourly gigs and no benefits.

[BumRushDaShow]

31. "Trump's brilliant plan for AAs"

was something that we did well before and after his family got off the boat. But inevitably, that is what the families of those coal miners will be doing since AAs are still always "the last hired and the first fired".

[paleotn]

39. the free market is killing their jobs...

Nat gas is cheaper and gas generation plants are less expensive to operate. No one overseas wants our coal. China has more than enough and Australia exports vastly more than we ever did. US coal is dead....stick a fork in it...it's dead...move the fuck on. They're simply going to have to do something else. I'm sorry, but that's how capitalism works. 100 years ago, Shit Stain would have been making the same promises to buggy whip producers....and with the same results.

[burfman]

10. Doesn't matter what Prez T does, coal is out, nat gas, wind & solar are the way to go.

Check this out from the NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/28/business/energy-environment/trump-coal-executive-order-impact.html?ribbon-ad-idx=5&rref=homepage&module=Ribbon&version=origin&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Home%20Page&pgtype=article



Burfman...............................

[HockeyMom]

12. I remember our coal stove as a child

back in the early 50's. Mom was constantly cleaning and screaming at me to not walk around our MANHATTAN apartment barefoot. My feet were totally black inside our apartment. Imagine what this was doing to us breathing all that soot inside? Mom was jumping with joy when our apartment put in steam heat.

Damn, Oil heat is filthy enough, forget COAL. Give me Natural Gas, or Solar, any day.

Edit: We now moved about 20 miles from Scranton, Pa. Do I want to them to open back up the Coal Mines? HELL NO. Find another occupation. Civilization has moved on from those days.

[TexasBushwhacker]

21. I remember visiting NYC when I was 12 in 1969

My dad worked at an oil company in Houston and was going to be transferred to NYC. The transfer included a promotion, but it wasn't optional. We made a family trip to see if it was somewhere my parents wanted to raise us. I remember there was soot on the tree leaves and if I scratched my head, my fingernails were black. My dad turned down the transfer and found another job.

[FakeNoose]

23. Needless to say

... New York is nothing like that now.

I live in Pittsburgh which used to be a filthy city in the 1960's. But the steel mills are all closed and torn down now and the old-timers would never recognize this place. Most of that dirt came from burning coal, you're probably aware of that. It's all good.

[TexasBushwhacker]

25. I realize that

What I'm questioning is if anyone in the US wants to ramp up the use of coal burning power plants in the US. It seems that most new plants run on natural gas.

[IronLionZion]

35. Most new coal mines have been metallurgical, not thermal

there is some demand for the low sulfur coal used in steel making. So if Dolt 45 really did enforce the buy American plan for steel, there might be some jobs for this type of coal.

There is not much financial or practical benefit to ramp up coal use for power plants unless dipshit decides to subsidize it. Natural gas has been getting cheaper and easier to get.

[BumRushDaShow]

32. I used to travel to Pittsburgh

from here in Philly for my job a couple of times a year and always remarked to the natives there how pretty the city was with the hills all around. And first I would get a "Yeah, I guess it is" as the initial response but then inevitably I'd hear the stories of yore (e.g., hang clothes on the line and they would be black from the soot, etc). Of course here in Philly, we had our smog-belching factories now pretty much gone plus the "Schuylkill Punch" (the at one time, horribly polluted river used for drinking water) is now cleaned up.

We may end up having blue areas that enforce clean environments becoming the only oasis communities left in this country.

[Cryptoad]

14. U just wait , until we get those,,,,,

F-35, and all the Navy ships burning Coal,,,,,,King Coal Rulz!

[Peachhead22]

18. XL pipeline got cheers in W. Va.

I saw a little bit of a Trump speech he did in West Virginia a week or two (or three) weeks ago. He was touting how he had just removed any restrictions on the construction of the XL pipeline. It was a big applause line. In the heart of coal country.

I hate generalize on this. Because I have roots and family, on my father's side, in West Virginia. But the audience at that speech, they weren't the brightest bulbs on the chandelier. I wanted to scream at my TV "You realize the stuff that gets transported by that pipeline directly competes[i/] with coal! Trump just made it even harder for your state and you cheer?! WTF!"

[IronLionZion]

20. New coal mine will open in Somerset County, generate 70 jobs

http://www.tribdem.com/news/new-coal-mine-will-open-in-somerset-county-generate-jobs/article_ddcbb86e-f484-11e6-b575-7f8241c28748.html

4 new coal mines to open in southern West Virginia
http://www.wvva.com/story/33626705/2016/11/Thursday/4-met-coal-mines-to-open-in-southern-west-virginia

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-17/u-s-coal-mines-are-opening-in-a-year-of-cautious-optimism

Many Trumpers in coal country see headlines like the above and see it as proof that Trump has defeated the evil liberals who want to screw them over.

They can't compare it to the job losses that are continuing to plague most of coal country. And they will never correlate it with natural gas competition from fracking. They want more fracking. More heroin/opiate addiction.

[TexasBushwhacker]

22. They are hoping there will be big global demand

I heard an interview with a mayor in W Virginia and she was talking about how deregulation was going to allow them to mine lots of coal and export it. The only problem is that she and other coal proponents assume that global demand is higher and growing and that simply isn't the case.

China has plenty of its own coal and is finding that burning it isn't so great. Even they are looking for cleaner options since people don't like air that you can chew. India is too. Pricewise, how is the US going to compete with Australia, that exports 5 times as much as we do?

The thing is, I'm not an economist or an expert in world trade. I'm just your average person with a college education. Why is this so obvious to me and not to everyone else?

[BumRushDaShow]

34. Here is something recent I saw about China & coal

https://phys.org/news/2017-03-beijing-coal-power-natural-gas.html

[Xolodno]

24. They have as good as a chance as tenant farming coming back.

In other words, kiss it goodbye.

They have no comprehension that other competing sources of energy are cheaper and there fore reduce the demand for coal.

The only country that still finds coal viable over other sources is China...and they buy their coal from North Korea which uses slave labor. And even then, given the air pollution problems they have had....are starting to move away from it.

To make coal viable here in the us, for a short term more, is to cut out expensive labor and regulations that increase the price. So, anyone in the industry that saw the writing on the wall, became equipment operators. Once coal is no longer economically viable, the coal companies will pay out a generous bonus to the execs and declare bankruptcy. Oh and, turn WV into a super-fund site.

Those that don't realize what's happening, are in for a rude awakening. They'll be forced to take government assistance (the very assistance they keep voting to reduce). Oh and they'll keep looking for coal jobs thinking they aren't just looking hard enough or in the right place. Then once the mines shut down, then they'll know how workers at timber mills felt like when the company strip harvested everything they could do legally.

And why don't they see it? They've been raised and told their whole life that coal mining was their future and don't worry too much about school, bettering yourself, etc. So they never developed enough critical thinking skills that would allow them to realize, "hey that machine is going to replace a lot of us workers...and if there are more energy sources, what's going to happen to us?". And they buy into their lying sack of shit politician whose bought and paid for by the coal industry....who says "those damn liberals are trying to stop you from mining coal!".

[Kittycow]

29. Good analysis, Xolodno.

[Fresh_Start]

27. clearly the solution is coal-fired cars and trucks

so the govmint should sponsor a startup to produce a prototype .

In the meantime, the coal miners could become migrant workers to pick crops and perform meat processing.

[Xolodno]

28. Well, you know....

...they are going to need some labor to build that wall, maybe all those coal miners can move to the southern border.

[BumRushDaShow]

33. They can always resurrect this

[OnDoutside]

36. Coal fired Submarines and Aircraft Carriers is the way to go .... ;)

[paleotn]

37. And the idiots actually belived

the shit stain. Of course coal isn't coming back...ever. Nat gas is cheaper and cleaner....not in just reduced CO2....gas fired power plants are cheaper to maintain and no worries about what to do with mountains of coal ash. Billions in capital have already been spent moving energy generation to gas. Coal just isn't coming back...period...end of story. Idiots.

[SteamAddict]

38. I heard the Steam Locamotive industry is in real trouble

Let's bring that back to!

[Cha]

40. Kick