Gay marriage supporters file Chick-Fil-A appeal

[Newsjock]

Source: Mountain View (Calif.) Voice

It appears that Chick-Fil-A's chickens have come home to roost.

The company's funding of anti-gay rights groups and president Dan Cathy's recent remarks that the company is "guilty as charged" in opposing gay marriage has caused a major backlash against its efforts expand into Mountain View.

Thanks to a fundraising web page citing the company's anti-gay stance, it took less than 14 hours last week to raise the $1,000 fee needed to have the City Council hear an appeal on the proposed Chick-Fil-A location at 1962 West El Camino Real. Zoning Administrator Peter Gilli had approved the restaurant and drive-through on July 10. The City Council could reverse or uphold that decision as soon as September 11.

Appellant David Speakman and his husband Richard were the first gay couple to marry in Santa Clara County in 2008. He says the company's "bigoted" stance prompted him to take action.


Read more: http://mv-voice.com/news/show_story.php?id=5885

[Seeking Serenity]

1. The City Council better be careful

if they reverse the zoning decision because of the viewpoint of the company's president. City governments aren't immune from the restrictive hand of the First Amendment, and using zoning laws to keep out a business because of a viewpoint disagreement could just end up costing the city money in legal fees for no practical purpose.

[rtracey]

2. Well

They do it to adult bookstores and other adult entertainment all the time.

[Confusious]

3. Not the same thing nt

[physioex]

26. Why? EOM

[Confusious]

38. This reason

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=177436

[physioex]

39. Define "adult entertainment"?

[Confusious]

41. Anything that involves

Naked adults, genitals and fun.

I think the word would be "titillation."

[musical_soul]

37. Yeah...

It's not as if Chick-fil-a is selling porn or hate literature against gays in their store.

Banning Chick-fil-a is only serving the purpose of making people have sympathy toward the anti-gay rights cause. The best thing to do would be to ignore them all together.

[Seeking Serenity]

4. Because of the kind of business those stores are engaged in.

Chick-Fil-A is in the business of selling food, not "adult entertainment." The viewpoints of the company's owner, no matter how malodorous, cannot, under the First Amendment, be used as a basis for denying a zoning variance or business license, if such zoning variances or business licenses are typically given to other similarly situated businesses.

Viewpoint discrimination, outside limited areas such as when the government itself is speaking through a hired third party, is not permissible.

[tonybgood]

5. Just don't go to their restaurants!!!

If no one goes there, they will close it! If they want to stay in business, perhaps they should concentrate on that and not spout opinions that drive customers away.

[cstanleytech]

29. Bingo, we have a winner!!!!

If anyone here disapproves of this company or any companies actions then just dont do business with them, its really that simple.

[cstanleytech]

30. According to scotus that is their right though. nt

[cstanleytech]

43. Your confused and you know what, thats ok because its easy to get

confused over what this is and what it isnt and what this is is that they are declaring their support for laws that would discriminate.
When this becomes a case of them firing people or not hiring them for being gay then they will be discriminating.

[christx30]

10. I don't like this

This guy was asked a question, and he answered from his heart about what the thought. That's it. Nothing in Chik-fil-a's hiring or serving practices are in any way discriminatory toward any group. GBLT people can walk into the store, hand-in-hand, and get a chicken sandwich or a job. No one is being discriminated against in any way.
I don't like the idea of denying a business a permit based on the political or religious views of the owner or employees. That invites nothing but trouble.

So Mr. Cathy is an asshole. It's not a crime. So he donates to causes that you don't like. That's not a crime either.
I support gay marriage. I think it needs to be allowed as of YESTERDAY. But I don't like blacklisting or boycotting based on the views of the CEO. I'm going to get a box of nuggets and some wafflefries on the way home from work.

[Seeking Serenity]

12. But is the corporation responsible for the private actions of its owner?

AFAIK, and as stated above, the corporation itself doesn't discriminate in its service or hiring.

[dbackjon]

14. When the corporation is owned by a bigot, then yes, it is

Founded by bigots, owned by bigots.

[guneydomuz]

44. Yes they do discriminate in hiring

Where are all the atheist and gay employees?

The place is a national chain they should have at least 1 or 2 including at the corporate management level.

I am willing to bet too, that if one did a little digging, one would find that women do not have it so good at the chicken place either.

[dbackjon]

13. So you support bigotry

Some ally you are.

Your money goes to denying ME equality

With supposed friends like you, no wonder I am still a second class citizen, no thanks to "supporters" like you.

[Seeking Serenity]

17. I give the devil himself the benefit of law

If we were to cut down every law to get at the devil, and then the devil turns on us, where will we seek refuge, all the laws having been cut down?

No, I don't support bigotry, from any corner. I do support freedom of speech, for you, for me, for Mr. Cathey, all of us!

[LanternWaste]

42. If the city council is moving through appropriate policy, procedure and protocol,

City council seems to be adhering to the law in addition to both you and your red-horned little client.

If the city council is moving through appropriate policy, procedure and protocol, relevant to, and within the parameters of both local and state laws, any specific reason for why they do some becomes secondary if not tertiary-- if they follow protocol... which as far as I can tell, they are bending over backwards to do so; and so, are not in fact, preventing anyone from speaking how they wish, what they wish, or when they wish to do so.

[randome]

32. How is anyone supporting bigotry?

He expressed a nuanced, legal view of the matter, that's all.

[dbackjon]

45. And ended by saying he was going to stop by Ckik-fila-A for dinner

Which is supporting bigotry.

[liberallibral]

18. Agreed!

I totally agree. Gay marriage should obviously be legal, EVERYWHERE! But people also have a right to their opinion... If folks don't like the opinion of the higher-ups at Chik-Fil-A, then simply don't buy their product - but I haven't heard of any "discriminatory practices" by Chik-Fil-A as of yet. If they discriminate against gay, then we have a completely different issue and they should be banned, everywhere - but I support a citizens right to hold a different opinion than mine. Even if it's wrong!

Heck, I know several right-wing nutballs (actually, I unfortunately know much more than several) that won't buy Ben and Jerry's ice cream because of their 'far left views'. But they're not stupid enough (at least not yet) to suggest we ban that oh-so delicious ice cream.....

Banning something because of somebody's opinion would be a slippery slope to a dangerous nation. Especially if the bible-toting crazies on the right become in charge... I'm only for banning the companies that DISCRIMINATE!

[mzteris]

20. Suuuuuure they hire glbt...

If they dont KNOW they're glbt.

Also don't hire too many African Americans , and if you're not Christian fugedabouit.... They may hire you if they don't know, but when they find out, better believe they find a reason to let you go.

[boppers]

23. "Nothing in Chik-fil-a's hiring or serving practices are in any way discriminatory...."

I'm going to go with "not aware" on this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick-fil-A#Religious_and_political_views

This isn't one guy, and one question, it's a long-standing systemic problem.

Unless, of course, you think working for a company whose purpose is "To glorify God by being a faithful steward of all that is entrusted to us. To have a positive influence on all who come in contact with Chick-fil-A." is not massively discriminatory, to, oh, their workers.

[ronnie624]

24. Sometimes I like you,

and this is one of those times.

But the wiki article you linked to also says this:

The proposed bans in Boston and Chicago drew criticism from liberal pundits, legal experts and the American Civil Liberties Union. Kevin Drum of Mother Jones magazine said "[T]here's really no excuse for Emanuel's and Menino's actions... you don't hand out business licenses based on whether you agree with the political views of the executives. Not in America, anyway."[59] Glenn Greenwald of Salon stated that "You can’t cheer when political officials punish the expression of views you dislike and then expect to be taken seriously when you wrap yourself in the banner of free speech." UCLA law professor and blogger Eugene Volokh observed, "[D]enying a private business permits because of such speech by its owner is a blatant First Amendment violation."[60] Law professor John Turley of George Washington University said Moreno’s intentions raises “serious” constitutional concerns.[61] Adam Schwartz, a senior attorney with the ACLU said, “When an alderman refuses to allow a business to open because its owner has expressed a viewpoint the government disagrees with, the government is practicing viewpoint discrimination.”[61]

I'm kind of torn on this issue, but you can bet I will never darken their doorway.

[boppers]

25. Corporations are not people, nor are businesses.

They have no rights, IMNSHO. (I am aware of the contrary opinions, I respectfully disagree).

With respect to your personal note: Sometimes I like myself, sometimes I don't. I spend a lot of time arguing on the edges of things, and sometimes it goes quite poorly.

[cstanleytech]

31. Legally as of this moment they "do" have rights according to scotus.

I dont agree with the court on that ruling but anyway you are forgetting the people who run the corporation do have rights themselves, we also have a right ourselves not to do business with their company.

[boppers]

22. Providing "adult entertainment" is a core 1st amendment crucible.

"Running a business" is not, however, as no such right exists, for either adult entertainment, or fast food operations.

[physioex]

27. I dont get it....

So why does the 1st Amendment not apply when an adult bookstore opens or sell dildos?

[4th law of robotics]

34. If they banned only certain adult bookstores

based on the stated views of the owners that would be comparable.

To ban chickfila they would need to ban all other fast food franchises.

[Newsjock]

8. The heart of the zoning appeal is over drive-thrus, not teh gays

From the article:

Speakman said he and his group know they can't win the appeal based on Chick-Fil-A's politics. He's been working on a list of other reasons, including the fact a restaurant with the goal of bringing in as many cars as possible doesn't fit in with the city's efforts to make El Camino Real more pedestrian friendly or the council's interest in studying a ban on new El Camino Real drive-throughs.

... "We cannot win on any claim based upon this evil company's hateful actions against minorities," he writes. "But we can fight the land use change and the increased danger to our population from cars driving up and over the sidewalks to get to fast food -- a danger that is not worth the risk to our otherwise bicycle- and pedestrian-friendly city."

"It doesn't matter who owns the restaurant," Speakman said. Considering positions the council has taken previously, "it doesn't sound like something the City Council would approve."

[Seeking Serenity]

9. As long as the drive-thrus or any other non-viewpoint basis

isn't seen as merely a pretext for viewpoint discrimination.

[4th law of robotics]

35. Great, just reinforcing the stereotype that gay people hate drive-thrus.

Sure some do, but not all of them.

[2ndAmForComputers]

21. Thank you for your concern.

[elbloggoZY27]

15. Cluck Cluck BOOOOOO!!!!!

I am really sorry to learn that Chick-Fil-A's supports anti-gay rights.

Hey! I do not buy anything from them.

[phylny]

19. I had an interesting, short conversation with a colleague of mine today.

I work in the shadow of "Liberty Mountain" at Liberty University, or what I like to call, "Falwellville." First, let me say that I have a sticker on my car that reads, "Want to preserve the 'sanctity of marriage'?" Then outlaw divorce." My meaning being, I'd like heterosexuals (as I am) to stop being so freaking hypocritical.

This lady was driving her car behind mine as we went to an appointment, and when we got to our destination, she said, "I guess we all have to eat at Chick-fil-A on August 1st." I looked sideways at her, and she continued, "I really like what that guy said, you know, that he is against gay marriage and supports the traditional family." I looked at her again and was silent. Then she sputtered, "Oh, I guess I should ask your views on this whole thing, since I don't know. I just think gay marriage is damaging the family structure."

I finally said, "I don't eat there. I can't support them. You see my window sticker? I don't care about divorces, I care about hypocrisy. About people who think divorce doesn't hurt the 'family structure.'"

Now, I knew she was divorced, but I continued, "I just don't get the opposition. Brittney Spears can get married and divorced within hours, but two people who love each other can't get married? No one is asking churches to allow them to marry there, but I think people deserve to be respected and deserve equal rights under the law."

She was pretty quiet after that.

[physioex]

28. If I had a couple of million...

I would love to try and get a permit to open a dildo store right in front of Liberty University with a big flashy sign. I wouldn't care if I didn't make money I would do it just to piss them off.....

[4th law of robotics]

36. If that's all it took to destroy her traditional family

I suspect they weren't going to last regardless.

Husband: Oh did you hear hunny, gays can get married now. I suppose I will divorce you and start having sex with animals. Good luck raising the kids, who are also addicted to crack and swear a lot now.

Wife: I suppose it was inevitable. I'm going to dump the brats at CPS since they're also pregnant and STD-ridden and then become a lesbian.

Husband: rightio.

[bitchkitty]

40. Good!

Even if they don't win, and the restaurant is allowed to open, making Chick Fil-A spend money on a defense is a good thing.

All's fair when you're battling hate.