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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Mon May 29, 2017, 10:33 AM May 2017

Trump Raged at Abbas in Meeting: 'You Lied To Me'

Source: Newsweek


BY JACK MOORE ON 5/29/17 AT 9:00 AM

President Trump reportedly lashed out at Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in their meeting in the West Bank city of Bethlehem last Tuesday.

“You tricked me in D.C.! You talked there about your commitment to peace, but the Israelis showed me your involvement in incitement (against Israel),” he allegedly said to Abbas, according to Israel’s Channel 2 broadcaster, which cited a U.S. official present at the meeting. It said the Palestinian delegation were shocked by the outburst.

The Israeli government blames the Palestinian leadership and Abbas’s Fatah faction for inciting violence among young Palestinians, who from September 2015 onward launched a series of violent and deadly attacks with knives, guns and vehicles in Jerusalem and the West Bank. The Palestinians say it is Israel’s military occupation of East Jerusalem and the West Bank that pushed them to violence. The violence slowed in mid-2016.

At their meeting in Washington on May 3, Trump told Abbas to end incitement and “resolve” a Palestinian policy of paying the families of Palestinians convicted of terror offenses under Israeli law. Abbas said “we are raising our youth, our children, our grandchildren on a culture of peace.” Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Abbas’s remarks were “not true” as his Palestinian Authority names “schools after mass murders of Israelis.”

Read more: http://www.newsweek.com/trump-raged-abbas-bethlehem-meeting-you-lied-me-617030

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Trump Raged at Abbas in Meeting: 'You Lied To Me' (Original Post) DonViejo May 2017 OP
Trump lies to everyone, but expects truth from others. nt NCjack May 2017 #1
Middle East Peace is going to be easy....NOT mtngirl47 May 2017 #2
no it isn't, but you don't have a supposed arbitrator adding fuel to the fire by "raging" toward the still_one May 2017 #8
Jared can do it Motley13 May 2017 #28
Or out of prison. LuckyLib May 2017 #36
Post removed Post removed May 2017 #3
"Another incident where trump was correct"? Really? So when Netanyahu says no two state solution, still_one May 2017 #12
Well said! Leftofinsane May 2017 #15
Thank you PatSeg May 2017 #20
Rather depends. Igel May 2017 #30
So if trump, a known liar, allegedly called one of the parties in this discussion a liar, then still_one May 2017 #45
It's obvious MiddleClass May 2017 #43
You make fatal error of tarring all Palestinians with Hamas. Bernardo de La Paz May 2017 #14
Please list some more of Trumps Triumphs. n/t busterbrown May 2017 #18
Trumpy's remark was beyond stupid. Eyeball_Kid May 2017 #35
Everyone us playing him. leftyladyfrommo May 2017 #4
Who would ever trust drumpf in a negotiation? democratisphere May 2017 #5
Nice bully showoff dalton99a May 2017 #6
Yeah, he's just being the same ol' bully. He shouldn't believe 100% of EITHER side. Honeycombe8 May 2017 #37
DonViejo Diclotican May 2017 #7
Jeez Louise, a buffoon with ZERO foreign policy experience is lecturing a president under attack by DK504 May 2017 #9
What a re-write of reality. former9thward May 2017 #31
And that attempt to rewrite it in the other direction is just as lacking in facts... Violet_Crumble May 2017 #48
Well, to be fair...that's what terrorism is: Killing innocents for a perceived just cause. Honeycombe8 May 2017 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author Oneironaut May 2017 #10
That's rich coming from a pathalogical liar onecaliberal May 2017 #11
Did he stomp his feet Bayard May 2017 #13
So this is how he plans to achieve peace in the Middle East NastyRiffraff May 2017 #16
No shit moron Bradical79 May 2017 #17
Israeli children are TAUGHT in school that Palestinians are terrorists. School maps are also wrong. vkkv May 2017 #19
The forward article does not present any facts, just opinions Mosby May 2017 #23
Therea re plenty of reliable sources, just Google: vkkv May 2017 #25
Yes Google is such a "reliable source".... former9thward May 2017 #33
Well, you seem to be relying on it, as well as yr own opinions... Violet_Crumble May 2017 #49
Some of those rocks they are throwing are really big! nt tblue37 May 2017 #32
Propaganda piece Juliusseizure May 2017 #40
In what universe did trump think that a country that has hated us for just about Doreen May 2017 #21
"....but the Israelis showed me..." Grins May 2017 #22
Trump, Netanyahu, and Abbas oberliner May 2017 #24
!!! vkkv May 2017 #26
Poor Baby! DDySiegs May 2017 #27
Mr Clueless goes to Washington. ucrdem May 2017 #29
So Mr. Street smart tough guy never considered that he might be being lied to? underpants May 2017 #34
Making peace C_U_L8R May 2017 #38
Did he tell him that he knows he's lying because ThoughtCriminal May 2017 #41
No. 1 cause of "incitement" among Palestinians. Scurrilous May 2017 #42
Straight and to the point MiddleClass May 2017 #44
Horseshit leftynyc May 2017 #47
Have you got any proof that families of terrorists who blow up children are paid for that? Violet_Crumble May 2017 #50
How many newspapers would you like me to link to? leftynyc May 2017 #52
Don't ruin the 'but they're gentically inclined to be evil!' theory! Violet_Crumble May 2017 #51
One day one of you will leftynyc May 2017 #53
No one could have ever known....... SergeStorms May 2017 #46
I do not think Trump knows the irony of his words: 'You lied to me" riversedge May 2017 #54

still_one

(92,219 posts)
8. no it isn't, but you don't have a supposed arbitrator adding fuel to the fire by "raging" toward the
Mon May 29, 2017, 11:14 AM
May 2017

parties involved in the conflict


Response to DonViejo (Original post)

still_one

(92,219 posts)
12. "Another incident where trump was correct"? Really? So when Netanyahu says no two state solution,
Mon May 29, 2017, 11:38 AM
May 2017

actively campaigns against President Obama in OUR election, continued expansion of settlements, is that correct?

When you have a arbitrator raging at one of the parties and hurling such words as liar into the conversation, do you really believe that is helpful to any negotiation process?

Most important, when you have an ignoramus, who has no understanding of the consequences of multiple generations, raised to hate each other over the years, immersed in the diplomatic process, there is a problem.

Rabin wasn't assassinated by a Palestinian, he was assassinated by the same mind set that plagued both sides toward peace.

Same as Sadat

As Moshe Dyan said:

"If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies."


Igel

(35,320 posts)
30. Rather depends.
Mon May 29, 2017, 02:43 PM
May 2017

Did Netanyahu say he wanted no two-state solution, or that there was none available? There's a difference between goal and observation of the current state of affairs. I want there to be a two-state solution; I see no two-state solution possible. These are not mutually contradictory statements.

Yes, Netanyahu actively supports expansion of settlements. On the other hand, he actively opposes the expansion of settlements. Both of those sentences are true, both of the sentences are ambiguous to the point of being misleading. They are not mutually contradictory statements except under certain readings, and those readings aren't mandatory. That's what happens when you couch meaning in English sentences using bare plural nouns. A listener will acknowledge the ambiguity or not; if he does, he'll resolve it in a way that he finds acceptable. If there's ill will, that acceptable way will be to the other side's injury, if possible, because it's seldom acceptable to make excuses for your foes and always acceptable to vilify them. We're human; that's how our emotions and group solidarity drive us.

There are settlements whose expansion he opposes; there are settlements the expansion of which he approves. Those he approves, the majority of the expansions, are in those close to the Israeli border and which are included in proposed land swaps likely to be implemented under any reasonable compromise; moreover, some of the expansion is just the natural growth, a family adding another living unit to where they already live. These typically consolidate and move the borders of the settlements closer to the Green Line, and include land included in the most common land-swap proposals. Some expansions are approved from political necessity, backed by some important political backers as a condition for their support. I can accept the former; not the latter, because I think a land-swap is almost required, however hard it may be for the side that insists on "ni shagu nazad", "not a single step back" (Stalin's order concerning Stalingrad). Those he disapproves of are typically more isolated and their continuation is an embarrassment at present, a security complication, and a long-term problem for any political solution, because any land-swap to include those settlements would be unreasonable to the point of impossibility and dismantling the settlements as Israeli did in Gaza was a political JDAM. Many of the settlement expansions or even new settlements he opposes had not been approved, and for some approval hadn't been sought, so it's also a direct challenge to any Israeli government's authority. In other words, ambiguity here is the enemy of agreeing on the truth found in the details. Ambiguity can be a first good attempt at getting to an overall consensus when confronted with a thousand different variable, but at the risk of having the consensus disintegrate when the thick layer of ambiguity is removed so the details become visible. Sound familiar? Over and over agreements and such hit the reefs of nasty little facts that the ambiguity masked. Ambiguity is a three-edged sword: It hurts both parties and the truth. Continuity to insist on ambiguity is short-term, self-serving insanity. The truth may not advance the cause, but it's not like it's obviously hurt it.

If you have two alternative realities going into a meeting you're simply not going to get a solution. After establishing some good will, the first thing is to get everybody on the same page with the same set of facts. Calling falsehood "falsehood" can be a good way of getting there, but isn't always the best way. Now, doing it in private is far, far better than doing it in public. There's no long-term upside to calling falsehood "truth"; at the best it's flattery that can serve a short-term purpose. It's been 50 years, not how I usually define "short-term." We talk about speaking truth to power; it doesn't matter to whom you speak, it should be truth, so that "speaking truth to weakness" is also appropriate, as is "speaking truth to equals." If we speak truth to power and lies to the oppressed, it's rather worse than being silent in the face of power; the latter is a failing of omission, the former is actively misleading people. Bad, even if it's "for the greater good." (I'm firmly in the "the ends don't justify the means" camp, with caveats: slight bending of the truth, short-term, can help get to "yes", at the risk of triggering a complete breakdown.)

Of course, even once you agree on the facts there can be good reasons for no possible compromise. Perhaps the Palestinian compromise would result in revolution or war by other Arab powers struck by a fellow Arab nation's betrayal; perhaps the Israeli compromise would result in de facto genocide or widespread internal intifada or ethnic cleansing to ensure an Arabenrein country. Or maybe some outcome less fantastical than these but still sufficiently unpleasant. However, in the I/P conflict, it's unclear whether the actual possible solutions or compromises are so dire. At worst, from where I sit, it would cause individuals to lose power, meaning that one truth that needs to be said is that a leader, as opposed to a despot, first considers his people. It might trigger some local unrest, but nothing unmanageable even in disorder-averse societies. If the right decision results in the loss of power for an individual or even a party, then it's still the right decision. Special interests shouldn't dictate the solution, in this case "special interests" might be a select group of leaders or the access of a political party to majority status in the government.

"Talking" to your enemies isn't anything like a final goal. It's an initial goal. There have been talks for decades.

It's also very much worth pointing out the difference between open, blunt conversation in private and having the same conversation made public. What's appropriate in the two situations is radically different. There's a difference between asking your secretary to fellate you during a BOD meeting versus during a weekend tryst, or saying that your boss is an asshole while talking to your spouse Friday at 10 pm at home in bed versus talking to her on the phone while in a meeting with your boss. Lies bad, but not every truth needs to be said at every juncture.

The fall-out from the private conversation, if as reported, is entirely Trump's. It might have been good, not bad. I honestly can't know and am confident nobody here can, either. The assumption, that nobody's ever spoken the truth to the Palestinian's before, is pathetic to the point of being risible--both the idea that neither Clinton, Bush II, nor Obama had the balls to say this in the face of flagrant lying or that we assume that these three presidents were all castrati.

Strictly speaking, I have no idea either way if one or all three of those presidents actually spoke to the truth to Abbas. I can't know. Nobody at the meeting decided to make himself into a liar by breaking his (or her) confidentiality agreement, while qualifying himself for immediate dismissal and committing a felony. I know that as a mere citizen I'm not entitled to know everything the government knows. That includes a lot of one-on-one meetings between Trump and Abbas (or Obama and Abbas), personnel decision, as well as my neighbor's social security number, gross annual income and his deductions. In fact, most of what the government knows I'd rather be kept secret. Even if I distrust Trump. In this case, if he said something that disrupts peace negotiations he's just screwed up in 3 months where Obama and Bush II failed to achieve meaningful results in 8 years each--either way, no result, and for them I had much higher hopes. The only reason to get upset at Trump over this is because I like getting upset; I don't like getting upset, it triggers unpleasant atrial flutter, which in turn causes me to fall down if I stand up too fast and generally wonder if my heart is going to make it to dinner.

The fall-out from the publicizing of the private conservation is the leaker's. I don't see how it could be good, and I see the leaker's contribution as 99% of the fall-out, esp. given the extent to which public, external honor plays a role in some of the cultures involved. Dissing somebody in private is different from dissing that same person in front of 100 people for whom that person bears their honor, as well. I also don't know what to make of the leak: Was it to embarrass Trump, derail the I/P negotiations and make Israel look good (or make Abbas look victimized)? Was it to let the leaker's friends, in a culture in which oath-breaking is prestigious, know that he, too, has the balls to commit a felony and divulge confidential information for jollies? Or was the leak there to further disrupt American foreign policy--now we piss off the Israelis by having a leaker not just point out intelligence was shared but by having another leaker tell the Russians through the WaPo that it was Israeli intelligence they were given? Then we piss off the British by having confidential Manchester-related information splashed around in the NYT. Now we return to pissing off the Israelis. You'd almost think that the leakers had in common a desire to isolate and hurt the US. (Do I think this? No. But once you start conspiratorializing, hey, the sky's the limit.)


Even worse, the hearsay nature of this leak leaves a lot of things unanswered. "You're a liar" ... Is that a quote? Or is it an inference drawn by somebody in the administration based on what a person in the room at the time said. "Trump presented Abbas with information that showed he wasn't being completely honest, and asked him to account for it" could easily be morphed into, "Trump effectively said Abbas he was a liar," which can easily become, "Trump told Abbas he was a liar." That's the problem with putting unconditional faith in unsubstantiated anonymous sources: Even if what they say contains a kernel of truth, it may still be more truthy (which is to say, false) than true.

Interesting to ruminate on. Not a good idea to take it at face value even to the point of venturing, "Trump was correct." (Sorry, Arachae.) I'd have said, "If Trump actually said it, then he'd have been correct for a change." But I have no confidence that he said it at all, much less that way.

still_one

(92,219 posts)
45. So if trump, a known liar, allegedly called one of the parties in this discussion a liar, then
Mon May 29, 2017, 08:54 PM
May 2017

"Trump was correct". That is not how you deal with negotiations, or trying to work out an agreement, if that was what was being done. Your circular argument regarding the settlements that Netanyahu was ambiguous is bull. People who are ambiguous are not being honest.

When Netanyahu campaigns on no two state solution before the election, and then after the election, modifies that statement, that is not honest. Is he lying, or is he just being ambiguous?

The point I'm making was if you are an arbitrator with two conflicting parties, you dod NOT resort to name calling as an arbitrator. The moment that happens, you have invalidated yourself as an honest broker.

Nothing happens in a vacuum in that conflict, and I seriously doubt that trump understands the complexity of the situation.

Fatah and Hamas were never on the best of terms, and I would argue that it was the policies of the Netanyahu government that motivated Fatah and Hamas to seek a unity government, and put Fatah between a rock and a hard place. A perfect example is George W. Bush not continuing to be engaged in the process between Israel and the Palestinians, continuing where Bill Clinton left off was a tragic mistake. It emboldened Netanyahu to treat President Obama's efforts to re-engage with the upmost disrespect, and sets the prospects for even a useful dialog under trump, as very bleak







MiddleClass

(888 posts)
43. It's obvious
Mon May 29, 2017, 07:30 PM
May 2017

Archae has drank the Netanyahu Kool-Aid.

What do you mean there are two sides to every argument, I just turned the loudest voice and it sounds reasonable. Now I can be a fair arbitrator

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,010 posts)
14. You make fatal error of tarring all Palestinians with Hamas.
Mon May 29, 2017, 11:57 AM
May 2017

In particular, Abbas is not Hamas. Abbas is against Hamas.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,432 posts)
35. Trumpy's remark was beyond stupid.
Mon May 29, 2017, 02:59 PM
May 2017

He's the best negotiator-- in his own mind, and no one else's. The WORST thing you can do as a negotiator is to take sides. This shows that Trumpy really had no intention on working for a middle-east solution. He instead is content with grandstanding for Israel, no doubt for his own financial gain. That's what everything he does amounts to.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
37. Yeah, he's just being the same ol' bully. He shouldn't believe 100% of EITHER side.
Mon May 29, 2017, 03:46 PM
May 2017

First, he was naive to believe everything Abbas said, if he did believe him. And he would be naive to believe everything Netanyahu says.

The truth is probably somewhere in between.

Calling someone out on lying (if Abbas did lie) is fine, if you do it in the right place, at hte right time, and with the dignity of your office. Once again, this was a Trump Fail.

But he should never assume that Netanyahu was telling the whole truth...he could simply have asked Abbas to explain the contradictions.

But there was a better place & time for that discussion, I'm sure.

Trump doesn't know what he's doing.

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
7. DonViejo
Mon May 29, 2017, 11:02 AM
May 2017

DonViejo

Was not he, who stated that solving the middle east problem would be walk in the talk ?

Diclotican

DK504

(3,847 posts)
9. Jeez Louise, a buffoon with ZERO foreign policy experience is lecturing a president under attack by
Mon May 29, 2017, 11:20 AM
May 2017

the Israelis, un-fucking-believable.

Yeah, those Palestinains have the audicity to be enraged by the Israelis illegally kicking them out of their homes and stealing their land. Those bad, bad Palestinians are trying to save their land.

Fuck.

former9thward

(32,025 posts)
31. What a re-write of reality.
Mon May 29, 2017, 02:45 PM
May 2017

The Palestinians have been attacking the Israelis non-stop but don't let facts get in the way.

Violet_Crumble

(35,961 posts)
48. And that attempt to rewrite it in the other direction is just as lacking in facts...
Tue May 30, 2017, 06:47 AM
May 2017

Here's a massively big fact for those of you who love painting one group as evil and the other as totally innocent and being all fan-girly and pretending it's some simplistic one-dimensional story of good vs evil. They've both been guilty of attacking each other. If we could send Netanyahu, Abbas, as well as the extremists from both sides off to Trump's Florida place that he uses as a pretend White House and lock them all up in there and never let them out, the sane folk left behind in Israel and Palestine would make peace pretty quickly. AND...seeing I'd have the keys for the Florida fake White House, I'd throw any American cheer squad member in there who'd start to grizzle and whine and claim there are no extremists on their side...

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
39. Well, to be fair...that's what terrorism is: Killing innocents for a perceived just cause.
Mon May 29, 2017, 03:52 PM
May 2017

The world has judged terrorism as wrong & evil.

The Israelis defend their country, but it is the Palestinians who do the terrorist acts, from my observation over the years. There is a difference.

If the Palestinians don't attack, the Israelis don't.

The problem with the Palestinian land is not to be resolved using terrorism. That's what peace talks are for.

Don't get me wrong. Israel has done and continues to do plenty wrong, like continuing to build on certain lands that are disputed. But the response is not to be terrorism. That's never appropriate and not what civilized people do.

The Palestinians have historically even refused to acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist as a country. I don't know if they have since acknowledged that, though. There can be no peace w/o that.

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
16. So this is how he plans to achieve peace in the Middle East
Mon May 29, 2017, 12:15 PM
May 2017

that, of course, he alone can do. He's an international disaster.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
17. No shit moron
Mon May 29, 2017, 12:31 PM
May 2017

This is why you can't just tell them to play nice and expect it to happen. It's called diplomacy. If you're going to try to negotiate a peace deal, you're going to be dealing with people that will bullshit you and lack any sort of objectivity. You can't act shocked and lose your mind if you think someone was dishonest.

What he's really mad about is that he promised to fix the problem, and found out it's very very hard. He had visions of being the greatest deal maker of all time, and it didn't happen immediately. So of course, he threw a temper tantrum.

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
19. Israeli children are TAUGHT in school that Palestinians are terrorists. School maps are also wrong.
Mon May 29, 2017, 12:46 PM
May 2017

http://forward.com/opinion/israel/197866/when-israelis-teach-their-kids-to-hate/

Gideon Levy, a Haaretz columnist, noted the striking similarities between these photos and the Palestinian glorification of violence. “Where else do they force a little child to crawl with a backpack on his back? When Hamas treats its children like this, Israeli parents tut-tut with disgust: Look at these beasts.”

It’s a double standard all too common to the conflict.

We’re told that Palestinian maps in schools often show a unified Palestine between the river and the sea — “how awful!” — yet Israeli maps, more often than Palestinian ones in fact, don’t show the Green Line, and Jews don’t really seem to care.

We’re told that Palestinians are taught in school that the Jewish historical claims to the land, particularly the Temple Mount, don’t really exist — “how awful!” — yet in a similar tone, many Israeli children learn that “Palestinians” were only recently invented, and Jews don’t really seem to care.

We’re told that Palestinian textbooks distort history — “how awful!” — yet a recent State Department study found that many Israeli textbooks do too, and Jews don’t really seem to care.

And now, we have yet another confirmation that Israeli children also learn to glorify and aspire toward violence, and — surprise, surprise — no one really seems to care.

Read more: http://forward.com/opinion/israel/197866/when-israelis-teach-their-kids-to-hate/







Human rights workers attempt to get a soldier to stop (Israeli) settler kids who are throwing stones at a Palestinian home while a settler adult watches.
Every day on their way home from school, several Palestinian children walk on a path that runs directly below where the settler kids were stoning. ( Nice kids!)

Mosby

(16,319 posts)
23. The forward article does not present any facts, just opinions
Mon May 29, 2017, 01:49 PM
May 2017

From anti-israel shitstains like levy. And the video shows kids messing around on a roof.

This is what irrational hate towards israelis looks like:



 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
25. Therea re plenty of reliable sources, just Google:
Mon May 29, 2017, 02:16 PM
May 2017

"Israeli children are taught to hate Palestinians".

You will see. It's not just from your "anti-israel shitstains" haters of Israel (not a shred of bias in THAT statement..).



former9thward

(32,025 posts)
33. Yes Google is such a "reliable source"....
Mon May 29, 2017, 02:52 PM
May 2017

You can find anything you want on Google. The reality is that Palestinians teach their children to hate Israelis and that they are non-human. The teach them to drive the Jews into the sea.



An UNRWA school holding a ceremony honoring and celebrating Palestinian stabbing attacks against Israelis.

Violet_Crumble

(35,961 posts)
49. Well, you seem to be relying on it, as well as yr own opinions...
Tue May 30, 2017, 06:57 AM
May 2017

Don't you get random images that probably aren't what you claim they are from places like Google Images? And what's with that bit of ugly personal opinion being touted as fact? That's as nasty as someone coming along and claiming it's a fact that all Israelis hate Palestinians, see them as not human, and every single Israeli wants to kill them.

Anyway, it's easy to spot Americans on the interwebz who have zero interest in peace between Israelis and Palestinians because they're far too busy trying to persuade everyone around them that their side is pure and the other is evil. Whether it's coming from the same dark and ugly place in the American psyche that gave the world the narcissistic Ugly American that is Trump, or a bit of laziness when it comes to anything the slightest bit complex, I'm not sure, but it certainly is more than a bit silly...

Juliusseizure

(562 posts)
40. Propaganda piece
Mon May 29, 2017, 04:31 PM
May 2017

You realize most Jews are not Israelis. So Michael Kaplan's opinions you copied and pasted suggesting when Israeli's supposedly do (insert alleged Israeli act), Jews don't care is offensive. I guess some guy named Michael Kaplan is the only American jew who cares?

Israeli children are not taught that Palestinians are terrorists. Not in public schools. That's not even stated by Michael Kaplan or Levy.

Check Wikipedia Israel textbooks. It doesn't say that either.

The "green line" was the post 1948 war map. US textbooks don't use the 1949 map as the current map either for obvious reasons.

"many Israeli children learn that “Palestinians” were only recently invented, and Jews don’t really seem to care."

I'm not sure what the first part means. Its not in Wikipedia. Israel doesn't recognize a Palestinian state and vice-versa. We know that.

Israeli textbooks distort history. So do American. Its a matter of degree, intent, and context.

"Israeli children glorify violence." Thats quite a stretch from the You-Tube video. The acts of certain children living in settlements do not represent the acts of all Israeli children.




Doreen

(11,686 posts)
21. In what universe did trump think that a country that has hated us for just about
Mon May 29, 2017, 01:03 PM
May 2017

forever would be honest with him and particularly when he was not being honest with them? You want people to fall to their knees and treat you like a god....well, that ain't gonna happen you stupid self centered dick. I can also bet that Saudi Arabia will be perfectly fine with turning on you in a heartbeat if you piss them off in any way.

Grins

(7,218 posts)
22. "....but the Israelis showed me..."
Mon May 29, 2017, 01:25 PM
May 2017
"....but the Israelis showed me..."

And the defenders of Jonathan Pollard would never lie to you, would they, you ambulatory heap of vicious neuroses?
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
24. Trump, Netanyahu, and Abbas
Mon May 29, 2017, 01:56 PM
May 2017

Somehow I don't think that is the trio that will bring peace to the region.

underpants

(182,830 posts)
34. So Mr. Street smart tough guy never considered that he might be being lied to?
Mon May 29, 2017, 02:58 PM
May 2017

I'm skipping over "the Israels showed me" part.

He really is a Fox News believer. I can't tell you the number of times I've ended conversations with "Have you considered that you're being lied to?"

ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
41. Did he tell him that he knows he's lying because
Mon May 29, 2017, 05:24 PM
May 2017

Israel has and agent going by the name of "Akram" working on Abbas staff?

MiddleClass

(888 posts)
44. Straight and to the point
Mon May 29, 2017, 07:54 PM
May 2017

Simple and true

I agree, Before researching the problem, pick up a history book, preferably non-American, non-Israeli, non-Palestinian

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
47. Horseshit
Tue May 30, 2017, 05:42 AM
May 2017

They could have had a state in 1948. It's people like you that believe they deserve infinite do-overs. Why wasn't a state declared by Jordan when they were in control? People at DU wont even call for the end of paying families of terrorists who blow up children which doesn't exactly seem like it should be a hard thing to do from a civilized society.

Violet_Crumble

(35,961 posts)
50. Have you got any proof that families of terrorists who blow up children are paid for that?
Tue May 30, 2017, 07:06 AM
May 2017

That they're paid specifically because a member of their family blew up a child? I don't want to see you come back with some stuff about how someone kept in an Israeli prison under administrative detention has a wife who's getting government benefits to raise their family while he's in prison because no-one here at DU should be wanting family members punished because of the actions of one of their family.

So, yeah. I'll wait patiently for you to provide some info on these special payments for families of suicide bombers. I don't think there's been a suicide bombing in Israel for quite a few years, but there must have been some while Trump was hogging the media for the PA to be paying all these families....

Violet_Crumble

(35,961 posts)
51. Don't ruin the 'but they're gentically inclined to be evil!' theory!
Tue May 30, 2017, 07:13 AM
May 2017

Bringing up complex concepts like brutal military occupations and the effect that has on occupied peoples is a very low blow, Scurrilous. I want you to promise me that next time I wander by DU and stumble into one of these threads that you're not trying to muddy the waters by introducing anything other than a variation of ''Palestinians are evil. Here. Let me tell you how they're evil and not like any other people".

Good to see you again

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
53. One day one of you will
Tue May 30, 2017, 08:51 AM
May 2017

answer the very simple and direct question as to why Jordan didn't declare them a state when they had the land and power to do so? Want to give that a crack instead of all the bullshit of how Israel is entirely to blame?

SergeStorms

(19,204 posts)
46. No one could have ever known.......
Mon May 29, 2017, 10:32 PM
May 2017

how difficult peace in the Middle East is going to be. Why do I think those will be the words emanating from Trump's bulbous maw any day now?

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