Trump files extension for 2016 taxes

[highplainsdem]

Source: The Hill

President Trump has filed for an extension on his 2016 tax returns, according to multiple reports Saturday.

It was not immediately clear what reason the president cited for the extension, but he will now have until Oct. 18 to file his taxes – six months from the original filing deadline, ABC News noted.

-snip-

Trump's personal income taxes have been a source of controversy for the president, who broke with decades of precedent as a presidential candidate by refusing to release his tax returns.

Those returns have become of particular interest to some congressional investigators probing Russia's efforts to meddle in the 2016 election, as well as possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.

-snip-

Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/336239-trump-files-extension-for-2016-taxes

[sandensea]

1. And another excuse for not releasing his taxes is born.

What's for next year? His dog ate them?

[Ms. Toad]

2. Umm...the first extension is routine.

No reason needed. You file a 1/3 page form informing the government you are taking an extension.

Whoever wrote this doesn't have a clue about income taxation.

[7962]

3. True, I've done it before. Laziness was the culprit! nt

[INdemo]

5. Yes but if a person owes they are required to pay or else

they will pay a penalty plus interest.

[SunSeeker]

6. Yep, which to me suggests Trump is paying zero in taxes.

His main concern at this point is Mueller getting that return.

[Ms. Toad]

10. Or he paid the amount he estimated was due with the extension request

Or (as he should be because of the nature of his businesses) he's been paying estimated taxes all along and has already paid the amount he estimated is owed

Or he's decided to pay the penalty.

It is trivial to insert fake numbers in the extension so the taxes you appear to owe on April 15 are zero. You'll bay through the teeth in October - but the fact that he filed an extension (with or without an estimated tax payment) says nothing about whether he pays zero taxes or millions of dollars in taxes.

[SunSeeker]

12. My point is I think he got the extension to avoid Mueller, not taxes. nt

[Ms. Toad]

14. Have you seen the estimates of how many pages his tax returns are?

My understanding is that nearly all of his businesses are pass-through entities. That is one ugly mess of a personal tax return, given the number of businesses he has.

At one point I had 3 pass through businesses - each generating no more than $1,000. Each required several additional schedules (car use - one for each, even though it was the same car), computer expenses for home office (ditto), My return was about 30 pages long

I wouldn't read more into it than that he organizes his businesses so stupidly that his taxes are a nightmare.

[SunSeeker]

16. The Marmalade Mugabe has more than enough lawyers and accountants to get his taxes in on time.

He is not you. I stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt a long time ago.

[Ms. Toad]

29. I wasn't giving him the benefit of the doubt

No one needs the benefit of the doubt for taking an extension - it is freely available to anyone who fills out a 1/3 page form.

I was addressing the suggestion that filing an extension meant he paid no taxes. What you have paid, what you owe, and how complex your returns on are not inherently related. That was my entire point.

(Aside from originally pointing out the idiocy of saying that it wasn't clear what reason he gave, when no reason is required.)

[Sunlei]

24. he doesn't pay any income taxes because he used those failed casinos as millions in deductions.

IRS will never let him out of audit over that.

[progree]

26. He paid $38 million in 2005

https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-says-trump-paid-taxes-hits-media-013221518.html

That's the only one that has come to light since the 1990's.

[SunSeeker]

34. I'm sure it is no coincidence that is the only one we've seen.

He probably leaked that one himself since it shows him paying taxes.

[Sunlei]

35. yes but with a deduction "loss" of 54? million one ends up paying no income taxes on the

"WHAT YOU OWE LINE"

I bet his years long IRS audits drive the agency crazy.

[progree]

36. The article doesn't say that. It says he paid taxes of $38 million in 2005

Last edited Mon Jun 5, 2017, 12:29 AM - Edit history (3)

and doesn't say anything about deducting a loss and ending up paying no taxes.

Do you have another article? I really want to get this right, so that I don't mislead my fellow progressives. Or make a fool of myself if I go outside of DU to a less-forgiving environment like Discussionist and argue something that I have no factual basis for.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> yes but with a deduction "loss" of 54? million one ends up paying no income taxes on the "WHAT YOU OWE LINE" <<

[Sunlei]

37. trump or "someone" "leaked" one page 2016 irs/tax report to make it LOOK LIKE he paid taxes...

must have been a fake page because it was just reported he filed for extension.

besides he is under a constant audit by irs because of his multi million dollar real estate "deals" and money laundering. The 54? million LOSS was reported in some media, use google search and find it.

here take a look at the history of just ONE of his real estate "Deals" that failed big time- The bottom of this page has all the media references you need if you like to message board fight with trumps fan club- LINK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Taj_Mahal

[progree]

43. I tried the Google and can't find any report of a big deduction on his 2005 taxes

>> The 54? million LOSS was reported in some media, use google search and find it. <<

Perhaps. I did some Googling, and I can't find any articles that say that -- they all say he paid $38 million in taxes. He apparently had huge deductions, but not enough to completely offset even huger income. I don't believe David Cay Johnston would be reporting he paid $38 million in taxes if the tax return showed no taxable income after deductions. Some other reporter, but not David Cay Johnston.

>> trump or "someone" "leaked" one page 2016 irs/tax report to make it LOOK LIKE he paid taxes. must have been a fake page because it was just reported he filed for extension. <<

Anybody anywhere in his tax situation (a gross income above about $20,000 for marrieds) has to file taxes, even IF their deductions exceed their income (they have to file the tax return to "prove" that).

As for filing an extension, it is routine for people with even modestly complicated taxes -- my tax preparer does it every year because he can't do everybody's taxes in 3 months, and I let him because I'm not some insensitive asshole. (This thread is full of people who say they routinely file extensions).

>> you need if you like to message board fight with trumps fan club- <<

Just want to get the facts right so that those of us who get outside of DU and argue on mixed message boards --
so we don't make fools of ourselves when we can't back up our assertions.

I don't particularly enjoy getting outside of DU to message. In fact I hate it. But when I read surveys that e.g. 60% (I don't remember the damn number but some huge number) of registered voters think the unemployment rate went UP under Obama (when in actuality it FELL by a third from January 2009 thru Sept 2016 when the survey was taken), then I think it is important that we get outside of DU to combat the gross misinformation.

Or if they acknowledge that the unemployment rate went down under Obama, they claim it's only because people ran out of unemployment insurance benefits and so are not counted. That is false -- unemployment insurance benefit status has nothing to do with how they count the unemployment rate -- that comes from a survey of 60,000 households.

See: http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm (and search the page for the word "insurance&quot

(Yes, there are other reasons to believe that the unemployment rate is missing a lot of people, e.g. the labor force participation rate and employment-to-population ratio of prime age people (25 - 54 years old) compared to past periods of similar unemployment rates)

I don't waste my time at a place that is overwhelmingly Trumpista -- that's just a wasted exercise in frustration. But sometimes on lower volume places where there is a mix of opinion it's worthwhile I think. Not that I'm going to change a Trumpista's mind, but hopefully to give someone in the middle some facts they had not heard before (something like 25% didn't make up their minds until a week before the election, or was it a month, per exit polls). And to give ammo to other leftists.

>>here take a look at the history of just ONE of his real estate "Deals" that failed big time- The bottom of this page has all the media references you need if you like to message board fight with trumps fan club- LINK<<

I'm well aware Caligula is no angel re: taxes paid or anything else. On his taxes I have read "The Making of Donald Trump" by David Cay Johnston. And his thuggish business associatates and deals..

[Sunlei]

44. you'll have to read through the thousands of documented real estate cost reports.

like in that link I gave you, "casino cost over a billion to build". When the place is closed those costs are a LOSS.

The man is an asshole and unfit, he's a sick man. There is no way you're going to change the mind of his most rabid fans. Like Obama said, "get over it."

If I find the LOSS claim on IRS link I'll give it to you. He IS under constant audit by IRS for YEARS. Just like that Nevada whorehouse was under constant audit by IRS.

But that doesn't matter at all because he is the Republican president. Get over it.

[progree]

45. I believe David Cay Johnston, sorry.

I'm aware of the big casino losses in the 90's and that there are losses being carried into future years -- one report was that the losses would carry forward "up to 18 years". "up to". The loss deductions could be exhausted sooner than 18 years, depending on income, and that is apparently what happened, if that 2005 partial tax return is true.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-says-trump-paid-taxes-hits-media-013221518.html

I have huge capital losses from 2008 or thereabouts that I've been carrying forward and using up for years, so I understand the mechanism. (No I didn't sell out when the stock market crashed, I took advantage of the low equity prices to consolidate and rearrange my portfolio ... I had no net sale of equities)

I know Caligula is a fucking asswipe. And we can talk about the hundreds of well-documented examples. I don't see any reason to make stuff up and harm our credibility -- for what? It accomplishes less than nothing. There is no report out there that says he didn't pay millions in taxes in 2005.

[Sunlei]

46. I meant trump was the asshole. Anyway, I think it was a 2015 or early 2016 blog discussion by

Robert E. McKenzie, about trumps IRS lifetime audit "troubles". Could have been one of the articles he wrote.

Here are his page links, He had a lot to write about trumps audit well before the general election. He links to his articles in his blog posts.

http://mckenzielaw.com/

[progree]

47. Yup. Neither David Cay Johnston nor I would argue that Trump files honest tax returns

[progree]

48. I made it clear I don't have any notion that I'm going to change "his most rabid fans"

#44 >> There is no way you're going to change the mind of his most rabid fans. <<

Like I said before that in #43 --

>> I don't particularly enjoy getting outside of DU to message. In fact I hate it. But when I read surveys that e.g. 60% (I don't remember the damn number but some huge number) of registered voters think the unemployment rate went UP under Obama (when in actuality it FELL by a third from January 2009 thru Sept 2016 when the survey was taken), then I think it is important that we get outside of DU to combat the gross misinformation.
...
I don't waste my time at a place that is overwhelmingly Trumpista -- that's just a wasted exercise in frustration. But sometimes on lower volume places where there is a mix of opinion it's worthwhile I think. Not that I'm going to change a Trumpista's mind, but hopefully to give someone in the middle some facts they had not heard before (something like 25% didn't make up their minds until a week before the election, or was it a month, per exit polls). And to give ammo to other leftists. <<

[Sunlei]

49. What every rocks your boat :P

[Ms. Toad]

28. What you pay/owe in taxes

has nothing to do with how complex the return is.

In those years when I had three pass through businesses, my income never rose to the level at which I would have had to file a return. I did so solely to be able to put all of my income away in an IRA (back in the day when they didn't recognize my spouse as my spouse - so the only way for us to plan for retirement was for me to make a little money while raising our daughter and put it all toward retirement).

[Sunlei]

38. yes, I do my own taxes and understand. I don't use an IRA for my 'retirement' savings.

a tiny bit of stocks I sell and buy on my own and usually make about 5% if I'm lucky. My savings I try to find CDs and savings that pay (these days) pay about 1%. I currently don't have any debt and paid off early mortgage to "save" paying the interest the bank charges. I have emergency credit cards that I don't use I don't like to pay interest or fees of any kind.

[briv1016]

31. He has plenty of taxes from previous years to go through first.

It's not like 2016 was the first year Donald worked with the Russians. If anything, taxes from previous years will give context to the 2016 filings.

[Sunlei]

39. yes, I think the 1990s? were trumps russian exploit years of beauty pagents & mansions real estate

flipping and free 5th avenue apartments to "friends" like his "Doctor" in return for ?

[progree]

9. My tax preparer and I get together for a quick draft and estimation session in March or early April

and I pay in what he estimates I owe (if anything) before April 15. Then he files an extension (since he simply cannot do everybody's taxes in the first 4 months of the year).

I pay in estimated taxes quarterly throughout the year, so more often than not I have already paid in more than I'm required to. Or I still owe a little, so I pay that by April 15.

[Ms. Toad]

11. Yup.

It comes right smack dab at the busiest week of the year for me, so I file an extension every year - which puts it at the least busy time of the year.

[Yupster]

21. I do the same thing

Haven't filed on time in years. My taxes are just too complicated. I tell my accountant to extend and do it when you have the time. I send in a check with the extension.,

[onenote]

4. +1

[progree]

8. I (or my tax preparer actually) files an extension EVERY YEAR (with one exception in the past 10)

That's because I don't get all my stuff until early March (including giving some appropriate waiting time for possible revisions from Vanguard and so on that do occasionally happen). So he sets up a quickie session in mid- or late March to do an initial draft and estimate of what I need to pay in (if anything -- I pay estimated taxes thru the year so more often than not I have already paid in more than I needed to). He would consider it at best insensitive on my part if I did insist that he finish it by April 15.

So it is NOT a crime against humanity to file an extension, but just a thoughtful recognition that tax preparers are busy as hell in the March / April time frame and simply cannot do everybody's tax return before April 15 and then sit on their asses doing nothing for the remainder of the year except an occasional tax planning session.

[jberryhill]

17. Same here

[mahatmakanejeeves]

41. "possible revisions from Vanguard"

Vanguard sent the final revision of my 1099-INT - 1099-DIV - etc. for tax year 2015 on August 26, 2016.

Full disclosure: I haven't gone back to see if it affected the return I had filed four months earlier.

[progree]

42. Ughhhhh

>> Vanguard sent the final revision of my 1099-INT - 1099-DIV - etc. for tax year 2015 on August 26, 2016. <<

That's deplorable.

>> Full disclosure: I haven't gone back to see if it affected the return I had filed four months earlier. <<

I wouldn't worry about it either. The IRS will let you know. Both ways (even if it lowers your taxes).

[brooklynite]

33. A reson is NOT needed, but tax payment IS...

...unless you're fairly sure you're getting a refund.

[turbinetree]

7. Everyone else in this country is paying this deadbeats tax and there own tax

[onenote]

19. I got an extension this year. Does that make me a deadbeat?

This is a non-story.

[Sunlei]

25. We are paying for IRS time, I bet his fines don't cover the costs of the 10 year++ audits.

[Yavin4]

13. He's waiting on his W-2 statement from Putin. n/t

[FailureToCommunicate]

18. Yes that, and finding some Russian translators who will work knowing they won't

be paid.

[Rollo]

32. Wouldn't that be a 1099 statement from Putin?

After all, Trump is a sovereign contractor....

[DFW]

15. If your taxes are complicated, it's routine to file for an extension

I do it every year because I just don't receive all the paperwork in time. It's a pain in the ass because the USA is one out of three countries in the world that do not recognize residence-based taxation (Eritrea is one of the other two, and the third is some place like the Central African Republic). So, even though I live in Germany, I have to file in the USA as well. Because of Germany's reluctance to honor parts of the Double Taxation Treaty they find inconvenient, I have to fight to not be taxed at 40% in the States plus 50% in Germany--not on marginal income, but on ALL income! I need the extension on the American end just to try to get all the documents together on both sides of the Atlantic. If you're trying to hide stuff everywhere, it's probably a hundred times more complicated than what I go through, so I can well imagine that if I need an extension, Trump is sure to need one.

[Motley13]

20. ok, let us see 2015

[rickford66]

30. Right. He had time to clean up 2016. There's plenty of other years out there.

[mpcamb]

40. "He had time to clean up 2016." ...or convert it to ruples.

[Vinca]

22. Or so he says. The guy lies more than he tells the truth.

[Sunlei]

23. give his damned casinos in atlantic city to the locals, fucking blight to the boardwalk area.

[secondwind]

27. This is not uncommon... we always filed for an extension. n/t