London Tower Fire, At Least 12 Dead. (update - 55 missing..presumed dead)

[Stuart G]

Last edited Sat Jun 17, 2017, 08:29 PM - Edit history (6)

Source: BBC

Update..6/17/17

A total of 58 people are dead or missing, presumed dead following the devastating fire at Grenfell Tower in west London, police have said.

Commander Stuart Cundy said that number "may increase". The BBC understands it could be around 70 people in total.

The recovery operation at the burnt-out block of flats has resumed and could take weeks, he said.

Meanwhile, PM Theresa May admitted support for families in the "initial hours" was "not good enough".

The statement came after Mrs May met some of the people made homeless by the fire and volunteer helpers in Downing Street.


As they left Number 10, one representative spoke to reporters briefly, saying they would not make a full statement yet.


Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40315194

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Update........from General Discussion. 6/17/17

from this post...by shenmue ....posted at 2:08pm in General Discussion...following is shenmue's link:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029217991

[angstlessk]

1. I hope Britain has laws that can put people in jail for negligence .

In China they shoot them, in USA we fine them

[RKP5637]

2. OMG! Horrible! n/t

[OnlinePoker]

3. A guy was on BBC last night who rushed into the building shortly after it started

He said he was banging on doors and could only get to the second floor before the smoke was overpowering and he had to get out. He said he never heard a smoke alarm going off at all. Since the fire started at 12:45 AM, most people were in bed and if there were no alarms would probably not have been aware of it until it was too late. I expect they'll find whole families dead on the upper floors since this building was mostly occupied by young families from reports last night.

[Stuart G]

4. If there were no smoke alarms....How can that be???????nt

[OnlinePoker]

7. The building is owned by the council (social housing, I believe) and was recently renovated

Who knows what corners were cut, but in this day and age, putting new cladding on the outside of the building instead of sprinklers on the inside is criminal.

[Denzil_DC]

10. The new cladding is a major issue for the spread, but the recent renovation seems to be crucial.

Fire safety and compartmentalization measures etc. hadn't been reinstalled after new heating pipework was fitted.

Sounds, at the very least, like it's a building that shouldn't have been occupied while work was continuing.

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. I'd seen a question about whether compartmentalization had been reinstated - is there a link?

The refurbishment finished last year; while that could mean they shouldn't have had people in there while that was being done, if that had been reinstated (talk about the recent installation of gas pipes may be relevant too), then that shouldn't have been a factor.

[Denzil_DC]

16. Here:

Baird, who advises seven major housing groups on fire safety, said the principles of the policy are based on flats that contain a fire for at least 60 minutes, sometimes up to three hours, before the fire service arrives.

However, he said this “60-minute box” principle could go out of the window if major refurbishment works have taken place.

“If it’s your flat that’s on fire you evacuate, if it’s not your flat then you’re ‘normally’ safe to remain where you are,” he said. “The thing that conflicts with that is if there’s been some refurbishment work done and that has altered that compartmentation.”

Baird said major refurbishments could leave a building “like swiss cheese”, full of holes that would accelerate the spread of the blaze.

“If there’s evidence that the floors may have been reconfigured, heating systems may have gone in and external cladding has been fitted – that changes the parameters [of the advice to stay put],” he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/14/grenfell-tower-major-fire-london-apartment-block-white-city-latimer-road?page=with:block-5941358ce4b014a733d62214#block-5941358ce4b014a733d62214
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And:

Link to tweet

Peter Apps

@PeteApps

New from @lukewbarratt: Refurb of #GrenfellTower involved temporary removal of fire protections between floors http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/business/asset-management/fire-safeguards-in-grenfell-were-temporarily-removed-during-refurbishment/7020464.article …

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Fire safeguards in Grenfell were temporarily removed during refurbishment

Safeguards intended to prevent the spread of fire from floor to floor were temporarily removed from Grenfell Tower during a refurbishment, according to documents from the planning application.

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/business/asset-management/fire-safeguards-in-grenfell-were-temporarily-removed-during-refurbishment/7020464.article (full article's paywalled, hence the Twitter link, but I imagine the other media will catch up soon enough).
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[Denzil_DC]

17. It also sounds like compartmentation is hit or miss whether there's been refurbishment or not:

Hannah Mansell, chair of the Passive Fire Protection Forum, trustee of the Children’s Burns Trust and spokesperson for the BWF’s Fire Door Safety Week campaign

We have a right to be very angry at the news about Grenfell Tower. I regularly sit in meetings with fire safety professionals, and their fury and frustration at the inaction of local councils and social landlords is palpable.

We have been warning about the risks of a fire like this for years. ‘What we need to get people to take notice is a huge fire in a tower block’ they say. Well, here it is.

There is an endemic fire safety problem in this type of housing stock. I have walked around tower blocks documenting and filming the fire safety breaches. I’ve seen flats without fire doors, no emergency lighting or signage on fire doors and escape routes, broken fire rated glass, wedged-open fire doors, poor fire stopping around service hatches that breach compartmentation, no smoke seals in fire doors, rubbish and combustible material left in the common areas, and no information displayed on the specific fire plan of the building.

But that information appears to fall on deaf ears. Action must be taken now to address these issues.

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/fire-expert-grenfell-tower-tragedy-entirely-predictable/10020779.article?blocktitle=news-feature&contentID=17135

[Blue_Tires]

13. then there was this guy today:

Link to tweet

[MosheFeingold]

5. Appears to have started in one apartment

And appears to be an accident.

That said, someone, somewhere, is taking notes about how to do this on purpose.

[OnlinePoker]

6. It wouldn't take much now.

Rent an apartment on a lower floor, bring in a ton of accelerant and wait for an opportune moment to set it off. I'm actually surprised it hasn't been done already.

[Mosby]

15. buildings like this are supposed to have fire suppression systems

At least in the US they do and are inspected by the FD.

[Denzil_DC]

8. Legislators', builders' and designers' negligence are factors,

but the Tory cutbacks in fire service provision can't have helped.



Then there's this:

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Grenfell Tower cladding that may have led to fire was added to improve appearance of Kensington block of flats

The cladding that might have led to the horrifying blaze at Grenfell Tower was added partly to improve the view from the luxury flats around it.

During a refurbishment aimed at regeneration last year, cladding was added to the sides of the building to update its look. That cladding then seems to have helped the fire spread around the building, leading it to destroy almost the entirety of the structure and kill people inside.

And that cladding – a cheap way of improving the front of the building – was chosen in part so that the tower would look better when seen from the conservation areas and luxury flats that surround north Kensington, according to planning documents.

“Due to its height the tower is visible from the adjacent Avondale Conservation Area to the south and the Ladbroke Conservation Area to the east,” a planning document for the regeneration work reads. “The changes to the existing tower will improve its appearance especially when viewed from the surrounding area.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-cladding-fire-cause-improve-kensington-block-flats-appearance-blaze-24-storey-west-a7789951.html

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I don't think the views from the surrounding area are a great selling point at the moment.

[Blue_Tires]

12. I'm glad there isn't a multibillion dollar legion of pundits and lobbyists

Flooding the news cycle with "BUT NOW IS **NOT** THE TIME TO TALK ABOUT FIRE SAFETY!"

[Denzil_DC]

14. Oh, I think there've already been some muted pleas about not "politicizing" a tragedy.

I don't think they'll gain much traction.

[Igel]

18. The height of the building is also a factor.

Even in Houston, some of the buildings are so tall that there are limited pieces of equipment that can reach high enough.

[Denzil_DC]

19. Yes, firefighters were asked about that on Channel 4 News (UK) earlier.

Then there's this:

Theresa May's chief of staff 'sat on' report warning high-rise blocks like Grenfell Tower were vulnerable to fire

Theresa May’s new chief of staff was one of a series of housing ministers who “sat on” a report warning high-rise blocks like Grenfell Tower were vulnerable to fire for four years.

A former Chief Fire Officer and secretary of a parliamentary group on fire safety today revealed successive ministers had had damning evidence on their desks since 2013 and nothing had happened.

And the Labour MP who chairs the group said ministers had “sat on” the recommendations for almost four years.

Gavin Barwell, who was housing minister until losing his seat in last week’s election, promised to review part B of the Building Regulations 2010, which relate to fire safety, but the review never materialised.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-mays-chief-staff-sat-10620357
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And:

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Tory minister warned against beefing up fire safety rules to include sprinklers because it could discourage house building

A former Tory housing minister warned MPs against beefing up fire safety regulations, because it could discourage house building.

Brandon Lewis admitted automatic sprinklers save lives, but said it was not the government's responsibility to encourage developers to fit them.

It was revealed this morning that successive ministers had "sat on" evidence that suggested thousands of tower blocks like London's Grenfell House were vulnerable to fire.

The coroner's report into a 2009 blaze in London recommended building regulations be updated, and called for developers refurbishing high-rise blocks to be encouraged to install sprinkler systems.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-minister-warned-beefing-up-10622601

[suffragette]

24. So May's previous chiefs were toxic and her new one is criminally negligent.

Speaks volumes about her priorities and world view. Small wonder that she reacted in such a robotic way in the BBc interview and that there has been such a notedly chaotic response to the emergency from her and her government.

[Sunlei]

9. The building had no fire alarms! It was 1am, if not for heroic people banging on doors.....

[Eugene]

20. Death toll in London inferno rises to 17 as investigators comb fire-gutted tower

Source: Washington Post

Death toll in London inferno rises to 17 as investigators comb fire-gutted tower

By Griff Witte and Karla Adam June 15 at 8:44 AM

LONDON — The death toll in the London tower block fire rose to 17 on Thursday amid growing questions about whether a recent renovation played a role in how quickly the fire spread through the building.

“We do believe that that number will sadly increase,” London Police Cmdr. Stuart Cundy said at a news conference. He said that 37 people were under medical treatment, of which 17 were in critical care.

Firefighters, meanwhile, combed through the wreckage of the 24-story west London tower, but they emphasized that they don’t expect to find any more survivors.

“Tragically, now, we are not expecting to find anyone else alive,” said London Fire Commissioner Dany Cotton. Speaking near the scene of the fire, she told Sky News that the “the severity and the heat of the fire will mean it will be an absolute miracle for anyone to be left alive.”

The number of people still missing is “unknown,” she said. The search of the charred building could take weeks, and will be assisted by sniffer dogs.

[font size=1]-snip-[/font]

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/london-inferno-it-would-be-an-absolute-miracle-for-anyone-to-be-left-alive/2017/06/15/2226f826-5195-11e7-91eb-9611861a988f_story.html

[OnDoutside]

21. Video has emerged of then-London Mayor Boris Johnson defending his cuts to fire services in London

https://skwawkbox.org/2017/06/14/video-boris-johnson-telling-fire-safety-panel-get-stuffed-grenfell/

When challenged to explain how cutting fire stations, firefighter positions, fire safety officers could possibly not put the lives of London residents at risk, Johnson at first tries to defend the indefensible by simply asserting that his recklessness works and improves safety.

Then, when challenged further, he tells a Labour AM,


"Oh get stuffed".

[Stuart G]

22. Latest News...30 dead..76 missing..

malaise has another thread on this in General Discussion...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029212379

[Stuart G]

23. Another update 55 missing presumed dead..link in original post