College Professor Fired For Posting Online That Otto Warmbier 'Got What He Deserved'

[DonViejo]

Source: Mediaite



by Joseph A. Wulfsohn | 7:23 am, June 26th, 2017

The University of Delaware fired a college professor for comments she made online about Otto Warmbier, the 22-year-old American student who recently passed away after being released from North Korea.

Katherine Dettwyler, an adjunct faculty member, posted her thoughts about Warmbier on her Facebook page as well as the comments section of this National Review article.

-snip-

On Sunday, the University of Delaware issued a statement saying Katherine Dettwyler “will not be rehired to teach at the University in the future.” This came after a statement they released Friday condemning her online posts, saying “We condemn any and all messages that endorse hatred and convey insensitivity towards a tragic event such as the one Otto Warmbier and his family suffered.”

This comes as another college professor was also fired this week for her inflammatory comments she made on Tucker Carlson Tonight.


Read more: http://www.mediaite.com/online/college-professor-fired-for-posting-online-that-otto-warmbier-got-what-he-deserved/

[Loki Liesmith]

1. In general, I don't like professors getting fired, no matter what dumbass thing they say

But the headline does not mention that this person was an adjunct. Having done that once, long ago, I remember that they are the most shit upon species of college professor...

[lunasun]

4. I agree but I bet the comments here will show what kind of backlash the college was in for

and yes adjunct is lowly pay and becoming more common

[Honeycombe8]

9. When a person works for a company or university, they represent that entity.

People need to recognize that when they say controversial things, it reflects on the institution. The person is free to post online that they agree with Hitler's ultimate plan, but the college or company is free to fire that person because they don't want to be associated with what they perceive to be evil or overly controversial.

[Loki Liesmith]

13. In general I agree

I do prefer that college professors get more leeway given the role universities play in fostering debate.

[Honeycombe8]

19. Maybe so. But they are not in a teaching environment. They are like anyone else on FB.

And that statement does cross a line, in the opinion of some (incl. me). To state that a young person deserved to suffer for months alone in a brutal country such that he ended up in a coma and died, stemming from stealing a poster in a hotel, does cross a line. Particularly the way she phrased it, and the timing of it being so soon after he died. "He got what he deserved" is what you say of a serial killer who is executed according to law, not in a situation such as this. It crosses a line.

Still, she's free to say it. But it's a bad enough statement that the college wanted to dissociate itself from it, and I don't blame them.

If she were in a class, and if they were discussing the situation, she could have posed the question for discussion: Was what happened to the young man warranted by his actions? Let's discuss. But that's not what she did.

[Blue_Tires]

23. Now I'm *really* trying to understand

how those Sandy Hook truther professors kept their jobs...

[Honeycombe8]

2. She's too stupid to be a teacher, if she posted her most evil thoughts online.

I can understand momentarily thinking that he brought this on himself, as well as his parents, but to post online that you think a death sentence is what he deserved is unconscionable...and stupid.

[KingCharlemagne]

3. You either support the principle of academic freedom or you don't. The U. of Delaware's

Last edited Tue Jun 27, 2017, 09:20 AM - Edit history (1)

action will have a chilling effect on the exercise of free speech and academic freedom. I would hope the AAUP takes up this issue.

[Honeycombe8]

10. You either support free speech or you don't. The college is free to choose not to be

associated with such statements and beliefs.

She is free to post them online. They are free to fire her for them.

Freedom-freedom.

[KingCharlemagne]

47. Sigh. So much for 'academic freedom.' Shame to see such an opinion on this

board, though.

[Honeycombe8]

61. Spouting an extreme cruel position on FB is NOT "academic freedom."

You need to do some research on what academic freedom is.

She's free to state her opinions. The college has an EQUAL freedom not to associate itself with such cruel comments.

What if she had said:

"Illegal immigrants who get killed by the govt deserved what they got."

"Blacks who got shot on the streets last year deserved what they got."

"Women who died while getting an abortion deseved what they got."

When not in a classroom, and NOT in a discussion of the subject matter (related to the topic of the class), this has NOTHING to do with academic freedom.

Academic freedom is NOT freedom for a teacher to say anything and everything, anywhere and everywhere, with no repercussions or accountability. Others have rights, too. Not just this teacher.

[duhneece]

62. Rwanda taught some of us that lives can be lost, tens of thousands by posting...

murderous thoughts one might have. That, for me, is over the line of free speech in public, as a teacher-instructor.

[teenagebambam]

11. As an adjunct myself...

I can assure you we have no such thing as academic freedom, nor any expectation of continuing employment beyond the current academic year.

[KingCharlemagne]

48. Ah, but you do have such a thing as "academic freedom," even if the institution that

Last edited Tue Jun 27, 2017, 09:53 PM - Edit history (1)

employs you doesn't honor it and should be censured for its stance.

[LuvLoogie]

52. She made a callous political statement, not an academic one.

She is a professor of anthropology, who chose to sully the kids name with rich, white, male privilege and impunity for rape. It was a stupid wholly self-centered rant. As a professor of anthropology, she should have understood that the privilege of male impunity crosses racial and religious lines.

There was nothing academic about her rant.

[Bradical79]

16. That's ridiculous

Academic freedom has nothing to do with saying a young man deserved death for removing a poster. It's nothing but hate and also was part of a pattern showing that this professor is not capable of performing her duties as an educator due to contempt for many of her students.

[KingCharlemagne]

49. You are incorrect and your post shows you lack even the faintest understanding

of what "academic freedom" means.

[24601]

24. Calling this an "academic freedom" issue doesn't hold up. She wasn't in a classroom

provoking discussion or conducting academic research. If a tenured professor of fine art posted a selfie taking a crap in front of a police station and claimed academic freedom protected it as performance art, there might be a college or two that (pun intended) let it pass. I'd predict that most would terminate for cause.

[KingCharlemagne]

50. With so many classes taking place online only now, the concept of a "physical

classroom" is an ananchronism that needs to be put to bed once and for all. If professors have to worry that anything they say will result in their dismissal, they will be hesitant to disinterestedly pursue "truth" wherever it might lead. Academic freedom (like "freedom of speech&quot exists precisely to protect this type of opinion, i.e., one a majority finds distasteful or offensive.

[24601]

53. It's not hypothetical - was she even teaching a class (in person or online) at the time and was

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this post part of it or not? Determining that isn't rocket science.

[christx30]

54. If this professor had said something

with a sentence starting out with, "I'm not racist, but..." or "marriage is a sacred union between one man and one woman..." that got a bunch of people rightly pissed off, I'm sure you'd feel the same way.

[Jose Garcia]

66. She wasn't teaching a class

[atreides1]

7. Evil thoughts???

What makes her thoughts evil? Stupid, I can agree with that...but evil?

[Honeycombe8]

8. You think that making a prankster mistake by a young adult deserves the death penalty?

So that an illegal immigrant who comes here, breaking the law, deserves to be put to death? I would say that's an evil thought or belief. She's free to believe that and say it and post it online. And the institution she's employed by is free to fire her, if they don't want to be associated with such statements.

[Bradical79]

14. Saying someone deserved death for taking a poster down

That's far beyond stupid.

[Honeycombe8]

28. +1. nt

[jberryhill]

29. There are people here who believe that taunting a tiger at a zoo is sufficient grounds to be killed

[Alice11111]

27. !!!

[Dorn]

5. The key word is "adjunct" -- not a tenured professor

So she said something out loud she should only have thought to herself, that is really not a very bright thing to do. First, no one cares what you think; second, why say nasty things about a kid who has died.

[PoliticAverse]

32. Indeed, one of the major reasons for desiring to get tenure is the "academic freedom" that comes...

with it.

"Adjunt" is akin to "temporary".

[TEB]

6. She is ignorant

That poor kid

[MichMan]

12. It was her other statements that were troubling

While her comments on Warmbier were callous, it was her other statements that were more troubling to me.

She equated Warmbier with what she described as entitled young rich white males she sees regularly and then categorizes them as rapists.

No one with views like that about specific groups should be allowed to be a teacher. How would any young white male students taking her class be expected to get fair treatment?

[Sunlei]

15. one thing to make cruel comments at bar chat, home events. To shout to the world means you're fired.

I really like internet social medias because it does show a persons true colors.

I understand why employers, border guards and security agencies all want to read a persons online comments.

[Coventina]

17. Certainly nobody deserves to die over a dumb poster.

What seems to be lost in this discussion, however, is:

The expectation that North Korea will treat US citizens in any reasonable manner is grossly ignorant and foolhardy.

They don't treat their own people with any sort of understanding of basic human rights. The mistaken idea that the citizens of a foreign power they despise will fare any better is mind-bogglingly stupid.

[Alice11111]

30. Who even knows if what N Korea says is true, but even if

It were, the punishment was outrageous. This professor needed to be fired. She didnt know this person. His past as displayed showed him to be a nice guy, which is not relevant to what happened anyway.
No one likes people who act like they have the affluance
Defence, but do they deserve to be tortured?
Not all white, young men are jerks. Small number, yes.

[Coventina]

34. It's not a question of what he deserved. Oppressive regimes are just that:

OPPRESSIVE!

He put his own life in danger the moment he decided to go to N. Korea.

Then, he did something incredibly stupid.

No, he didn't "deserve" it. But those are OUR standards.

People get their heads chopped off for "blasphemy" in other oppressive regimes.

You can be executed for possession the tiniest amount of marijuana in places like Singapore and Malaysia.

You don't want to play by those rules? DON'T GO THERE!!!

If you do go there, don't blame Obama when you get in trouble for breaking their stupid laws and customs.

Yes, it's stupid. It's cruel. That's why the State Department STRONGLY DISCOURAGES you from traveling to North Korea.

[SpankMe]

18. Except for the "he got what he deserved" sentiment, she's right about everything else.

My son goes to a highly rated community college in Southern California. A number of the students there are, in fact, rich white kids to are there to smoke weed and sow their post-high school wild oats. They don't take anything seriously and make it harder for those who do. Although I'm generally on the same page as they are politically, they are a bunch of clueless, arrogant, spoiled snots.

We just don't know if Warmbier was one of these clueless, privileged brats who thought he was somehow immune to harm due to his status, good intentions and desire to learn about the world.

These profs need to keep their politics analytical and not inflammatory and personal.

[TexasBushwhacker]

38. Young people generally think they are immortal

That's really nothing new. That's why all this talk about lowering health insurance premiums for millenials is bullshit. They don't buy health insurance because they don't think they need it. You could lower the unsubsidized premiums to $100 and there will still be plenty who don't sign up.

[Coventina]

41. I dunno. When I was in my early 20s, as soon as I was kicked off my parents' insurance

I made sure to get my own.

Maybe it's because my family has lots of health issues, but I was always worried about what "might happen."

[TexasBushwhacker]

46. The health issues probably has something to do with it

I know people in their early 30's making good money who paid the penalty because "it was cheaper". They're paying the penalty to have no coverage rather than paying a little more to have coverage. Stoopid!

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

20. When "Keeping It Real" Goes Wrong

[romanic]

21. "Academic freedom" died in Mizzou

The stupidity and arrogance of Academia is coming home to roost.

[athena]

58. Don't allow your hatred of academics to cloud your judgment.

What was done to this academic was wrong. Everyone has bad days; an online post should not get anyone fired. And whether you like it or not, the more academics are silenced and intimidated, the faster this country will descend to third-world status.

[BannonsLiver]

22. Good, she deserved it.

[Alice11111]

31. !!!

[BigDemVoter]

25. Somebody else wrote they didn't like college professors being fired. I concur, as I don't either

in MOST cases. In THIS case, it appears it was warranted.

[SoCalMusicLover]

26. There Needs To Be A Darwin Award For Folks Like This

Say stupid things, win stupid prizes.

[Alice11111]

33. Yes. Everyone in DTs cabinet and staff would get it, w the

Possible exception of two

[Coventina]

35. The same could be applied to the kid who died.

[SoCalMusicLover]

36. I'm Sure You Didn't Mean It To Sound That Way

Guilty of a stupid crime as a young person, absolutely. Deserve to die? Absolutely not.

Perhaps his biggest mistake was wanting to go there in the first place, as opposed to the hundreds of other countries he could have visited. Hell, I've been to a lot of countries, but my list is still very long, and I'm absolutely certain that I won't cover them all in my lifetime, and even if I did, I'd hit some of them up multiple times before ever even letting a place like North Korea enter my mind as a destination. That no plans to visit list also includes such intriguing destinations like Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, Lebanon, among others.

[Coventina]

37. Of course he didn't deserve it. But he was *incredibly* stupid.

Yes, choosing to go to N. Korea was the biggest mistake.

Especially if he had a mindset that doing *anything* that could be construed as an affront to the regime would be REMOTELY acceptable.

It's cruel. It's unfair.

But that's why N. Korea is considered by every thinking person as one giant prison camp.
That's what it is.

Being stupid in such an environment is very likely to go catastrophically badly. And it did.

[TexasBushwhacker]

39. I wonder if his parents helped finance his trip

If so, bad on the parents. No American should travel to a country that doesn't have an American Embassy. No one.

[joeybee12]

40. You really have been posting terrible things

And you wonder why people are not agreeing with you? Jebus

[Coventina]

42. Yes. I'm a complete monster for saying Americans shouldn't go to N. Korea for kicks.

Please, send me to Den Haag before I commit more atrocities!!

[joeybee12]

43. That's right make it sound so innocent

You've been blaming that kid just like that fired idiot. Sickening

[Coventina]

44. I have said REPEATEDLY that he didn't deserve it.

Just because I think he did something stupid doesn't mean I wished death upon him.

But, if you want to hate me, that's your choice.

[EL34x4]

45. Sorry but that kid WAS an idiot!

I agree with every word Coventina posted on this subject.

He was an IDIOT!!!

What did he think would happen to him in North Korea? Do people not teach about this place anymore?!?!?! It is a giant, miserable hellhole!

Do I deserve to die if I stand in front of a moving fright train with my arms out, trying to stop it like Superman?

Do I deserve to die if I hop the fence into the tiger cage at the zoo wearing a necklace made from pork chops?

Do I deserve to die if I jump from the Empire State Building holding an umbrella like Mary Poppins?

Perhaps I didn't truly DESERVE to die, but...

...Am I an IDIOT for doing these things?!?!?! YES!!!!!! Just as I would be if I traveled to North Korea.

Newsflash people. North Korea is not a vacation destination!!! It is not an adventure. It is not "off the beaten path." It is a F***ING EVIL PLACE and please let Warmbier's miserable death be a lesson.

[hrmjustin]

51. She said a dumb thing.

I don't want to see her fired for having a bad moment though. Not a great job market and all.

[athena]

55. Lots of people say dumb things online.

All she did was post a thoughtless comment on an online forum. Everyone has a weak moment. People have bad days. It's disturbing that an academic would be fired for an online post. It's even more disturbing that so many self-declared liberals are cheering this.

[hrmjustin]

56. Academic freedom is very important.

[athena]

57. Yes, it is.

An overworked adjunct makes a thoughtless post in a moment of exasperation with some of her more annoying students, and she gets fired.

Meanwhile, two male professors who sexually harrassed female grad students are not fired:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/azeenghorayshi/caltech-students-protest-professor-harassment
https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/01/12/professor-accused-harassment-cancels-classes

[hrmjustin]

60. Good God!

The good old boy network protecting it's members.

[DeminPennswoods]

59. 20/20 did a special report

One of the people interviewed talked about NK firing off missiles a few weeks later and speculated that Wambier was grabbed as sort of a human shield against US retaliation. That made as much sense to me as any explanation. If Wambier hadn't gone, it might well have another American tourist arrested and framed.

[Coventina]

63. That doesn't make any sense, as there are other Americans currently being held in NK.

[DeminPennswoods]

64. NK does a lot of things that don't make sense

nt

[Coventina]

65. True, but what I'm saying is I don't think the argument that Otto was being held

as a human shield holds any water.

NK fires missiles regardless of any particular prisoner they have in custody.

They've amply demonstrated that they have zero fucks to give about international opinion or threats.