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brooklynite

(94,646 posts)
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 04:40 PM Apr 2018

Midwestern Democrats Want The National Party To Stop The Trump-Russia Talk

Source: BuzzFeed

In battleground states in the middle of the country, some Democrats watched with frustration as their party grabbed headlines last week with a splashy new lawsuit alleging a vast conspiracy between President Donald Trump and Russia.

The Democratic National Committee’s drumbeat of messaging on Trump and his relationship with Russia is wearing thin with some Democrats in purple states — particularly in the Midwest, where people on the ground say voters are uninterested and even turned off by the issue. The suit exposes a gap, they say, between the party’s strategy nationally and what Midwest Democrats believe will win elections in their state.

“The DNC is doing a good job of winning New York and California,” said David Betras, the Democratic county party chair in Mahoning County, Ohio, home to Youngstown. “I’m not saying it’s not important — of course it’s important — but do they honestly think that people that were just laid off another shift at the car plant in my home county give a shit about Russia when they don’t have a frickin’ job?”

Trump and Russia, Betras said, is the “only piece they’ve been doing since 2016. [Trump] keeps talking about jobs and the economy, and we talk about Russia.”

Read more: https://www.buzzfeed.com/mollyhensleyclancy/midwestern-democrats-dnc-trump-russia?utm_term=.ahnoNy0km#.stjNGbO4k



I spoke to an AZ Congressperson yesterday and was told the same thing: people are focused on jobs, healthcare and education (fun fact: NOT focused on immigration), but don't care about Russia and DEFINITELY aren't interested in talking about impeachment.
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Midwestern Democrats Want The National Party To Stop The Trump-Russia Talk (Original Post) brooklynite Apr 2018 OP
They "don't have a frickin' job" because of Trump-Russia & gerrymandering & voter suppression Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2018 #1
" " " n/t MBS Apr 2018 #51
I have no idea what you mean. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2018 #55
positively. MBS Apr 2018 #64
Cool :) Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2018 #66
BINGO!!! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #59
Uh, I grew up in the UKRAINIAN church in Mahoning County, Ohio, home to Youngstown. Kolesar Apr 2018 #2
Bullshit, this implies that the GOP is the party for jobs and democrats have to prove Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #3
It can be linked to jobs, as can Trump's myriad legal problems, investigations, tariffs, etc. Honeycombe8 Apr 2018 #4
That's unfortunate. paleotn Apr 2018 #5
I agree with the midwestern Dems. Lonestarblue Apr 2018 #6
! Achilleaze Apr 2018 #56
LOL, Democrats can walk AND chew gum at the same time... run on impeaching BLOTUS InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #60
No they can't, the corporate owned media told them they couldn't nolabels Apr 2018 #84
Okay, that's funny! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #85
Nothing is wrong with the Democratic messages and NEVER has been, EXCEPT... Trueblue Texan Apr 2018 #62
Agree, attack on bad policy, there is more than enough there to go after. harun Apr 2018 #65
Youngstown is where New Jersey goes to fart. OilemFirchen Apr 2018 #7
That is completely untrue. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #20
Damn. Where did I put my avatar? OilemFirchen Apr 2018 #24
heh heh.. Crutchez_CuiBono Apr 2018 #54
Many will be deeply embarrassed to learn they spread Russian propaganda and voted against their self bettyellen Apr 2018 #8
To most of the responses here so far, I say: dismiss this at your own risk NickB79 Apr 2018 #9
Thanks elleng Apr 2018 #12
I'm not dismissing it.... paleotn Apr 2018 #33
I also am appalled. Especially, why does it have to be either/or? MBS Apr 2018 #50
Then they don't have to follow the DNC lawsuit DeminPennswoods Apr 2018 #42
We can multitask, Dave. How's Jim Trafficant been doin? Mc Mike Apr 2018 #10
He is dead...but I have to tell you...I swear I would vote him if he wasn't...he was Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #19
To each their own, Dr86. Mc Mike Apr 2018 #29
He was acquitted...but he cared for the working guy... Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #38
I'm from Pittsburgh. It doesn't bother me if you draw the 'midwest' line at the border of Lawrence Mc Mike Apr 2018 #40
He was involved with the mob...but if you were from Youngstown in those days...it was hard not Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #41
I remember when the Cleveland Tune Up became the Youngstown Tune Up. Mc Mike Apr 2018 #46
Good to listen Owens Apr 2018 #11
If people were focused on jobs, healthcare and education they wouldn't vote for Republicans. Vinca Apr 2018 #13
These Rust Belt Democrats Saw the Trump Wave Coming mahatmakanejeeves Apr 2018 #14
There are Democrats on the rolls who are not Democrats...much of the time they don't vote for anyone Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #18
Yes, let's not worry about an acidic pile of shit like Trump eating holes in the Constitution . . . hatrack Apr 2018 #15
It must be nice to lead such a virtuous campaign... brooklynite Apr 2018 #21
It must be nice to dominate the space of what wins elections. FreepFryer Apr 2018 #23
Maybe we could "reach out" to Trump voters? Maybe some tax cuts - yeah, that's the ticket! hatrack Apr 2018 #25
Whatever you do, dont upset Mitch McConnell. It might play as nakedly partisan (n/t) FreepFryer Apr 2018 #28
Aren't all politics local? Blackjackdavey Apr 2018 #67
Don't believe it...that guy is weak and needs to let someone else take over the job. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #16
Don't care... Blue_Tires Apr 2018 #17
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Lets just put that whole conspiracy to defraud the US thing aside! FreepFryer Apr 2018 #22
+1 sarcasmo Apr 2018 #31
So, your campaign strategy is to focus on things voters don't care about? brooklynite Apr 2018 #57
??? Blackjackdavey Apr 2018 #68
Honestly, no they don't brooklynite Apr 2018 #69
It doesn't require news or blogs Blackjackdavey Apr 2018 #70
I'm not discussing what SHOULD be...I'm discussing what IS brooklynite Apr 2018 #71
I know Blackjackdavey Apr 2018 #74
The logical fallacy of either-or is blatant and obvious. FreepFryer Apr 2018 #80
And why don't they have a freaking job? LisaL Apr 2018 #26
It's frustrating, when the GOP lies about the issues people care about, with no consequences More_Cowbell Apr 2018 #27
Horrible MountCleaners Apr 2018 #30
+1 sarcasmo Apr 2018 #32
But guess what? Economic insecurity is not the reason they voted for Trump frazzled Apr 2018 #34
Yup, scared white christian males afraid of losing their flockin privilege... WePurrsevere Apr 2018 #63
Ohio SCVDem Apr 2018 #35
BEE ESS!!! nt Atticus Apr 2018 #36
Complete bullshit. Freethinker65 Apr 2018 #37
Right on. Thanks Free. Nt Mc Mike Apr 2018 #47
A Congressowman I know in Arizona tells me differently. brooklynite Apr 2018 #72
Acting just like the brain dead in GET OUT!!! radliberal Apr 2018 #39
IIRC, Lordstown GM plant just laid off a shift DeminPennswoods Apr 2018 #43
If they don't care that the President is a criminal and traitor Zorro Apr 2018 #44
Then the democrats in the battle states FormerOstrich Apr 2018 #45
Totally agree! thewhollytoast Apr 2018 #79
Are you aware of the DNC lawsuit against the Trump campaign and Putin for election interference? emulatorloo Apr 2018 #82
Bingo! Communication, messaging and outreach by Democrats needs to improve big time. appalachiablue Apr 2018 #81
What crap. Scurrilous Apr 2018 #48
They'd better wake up. yardwork Apr 2018 #49
This is stupid Loki Liesmith Apr 2018 #52
Nice try. MrsCoffee Apr 2018 #53
I think that is wrong... BlueJac Apr 2018 #58
Trump is a false prophet making REAL profits on our tax dollars. lagomorph777 Apr 2018 #75
Sorry, but I don't buy this Trueblue Texan Apr 2018 #61
As a Midwestern democrat... jcgoldie Apr 2018 #73
That's certainly not true of the Chicago area, except for Republicans. greatauntoftriplets Apr 2018 #76
Absolutely true MountCleaners Apr 2018 #83
I think what works there - will work there JustAnotherGen Apr 2018 #77
I live in central Wisconsin and find the Russian investigation completely relevant and 33taw Apr 2018 #78

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,020 posts)
1. They "don't have a frickin' job" because of Trump-Russia & gerrymandering & voter suppression
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 04:45 PM
Apr 2018

The tax heist given to the 1% and 0.01% is not going to be invested in jobs. They are not lacking for money to invest; they are lacking opportunities. The money they have been gifted by the RepubliCONMEN will be used to buy real estate and art, driving up those prices and not producing anything of value, let alone producing jobs.

What does create jobs is getting money into the hands of the middle class and poor who spend it in the economy. Investment and job creation happens when money is in motion, not when it is parked. Middle class people with more money can afford a second car or home improvements or a bigger house or move out of rental or move up in rental. Poor people with money can afford a used first car.

Money in motion comes from tax cuts for the middle class, real tax cuts. It also comes from government spending, especially spending that invests in the society: infrastructure, education, healthcare, research, etc.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1774044

They "don't have a frickin' job" because of the severe wealth & income inequality. That is because of RepubliCons and now Trumpism / plutocracy / kakistocracy is making it worse.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1867921

MBS

(9,688 posts)
64. positively.
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:19 AM
Apr 2018

Last edited Wed Apr 25, 2018, 12:52 PM - Edit history (1)

Those are supposed to be "ditto" marks - in other words, I agree. I'll try to be less cryptic in any future postings.

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
2. Uh, I grew up in the UKRAINIAN church in Mahoning County, Ohio, home to Youngstown.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 04:45 PM
Apr 2018

Ya think we are stupid, Betras?

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
3. Bullshit, this implies that the GOP is the party for jobs and democrats have to prove
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 04:50 PM
Apr 2018

themselves.

This is the same bullshit as during the election. I dont know who is saying this. But if in HIS county he thinks jobs matter, then I guess he can remind them who cares about jobs.

I wanna know specifically WHAT JOBS Betras thinks they could have but dont?

GEEZ this article or headline makes it sound like hundreds of party chairs all throughout Midwest are saying this

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
4. It can be linked to jobs, as can Trump's myriad legal problems, investigations, tariffs, etc.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 04:54 PM
Apr 2018

It's all linked.

They can not mention it in those states. But avoiding the obvious and the clear and present danger to our country isn't the answer, I think.

Link it to the blue collar working man. Why should he care? He should. And explain clearly, and briefly, why it matters to HIM/HER.

paleotn

(17,937 posts)
5. That's unfortunate.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 04:55 PM
Apr 2018

They're also not worried about Dumpster exposing classified information by using his personal cell phone. Communications easily intercepted by foreign intelligence services. Keep them fat, happy, with something to watch of TV, and Kim Jung Un could parade down Pennsylvania Avenue and they'd hardly take notice. Reminds me of the isolationist morons like Lindberg in the late 30's. Don't worry about what those Germans, Italians and Japanese are up to. It doesn't affect us. Who cares? Well, a great many cared on 7 December 1941. And this time around, the potential foreign advisory has a plant in the Oval Office. Nothing to worry about....move along...move along.....

Lonestarblue

(10,030 posts)
6. I agree with the midwestern Dems.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:00 PM
Apr 2018

Republicans are already running on claims that a vote for Dems means a vote for impeachment because all Democrats care about is getting rid of this president in any way possible—legal or not. The DNC needs to stop sabotaging local efforts and campaigns, as they tried to do in Houston by slamming a popular Democrat who was not their preferred candidate. Most people do not like Trump’s antics, but winning their votes will rely on the Democrats’ message of what they want to do for voters—not what they want to do to Trump.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
60. LOL, Democrats can walk AND chew gum at the same time... run on impeaching BLOTUS
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:20 AM
Apr 2018

while passing our progressive agenda. It's not like we're doing rocket science here.

Trueblue Texan

(2,434 posts)
62. Nothing is wrong with the Democratic messages and NEVER has been, EXCEPT...
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:30 AM
Apr 2018

...that the lie that it is inadequate continues to be repeated. There are myriad lies that get better focus in the MSM but there is nothing wrong with a message of equality, opportunity and justice and NEVER has been! Don't let the lies perpetuate. Stop helping the Right with their messaging and start broadcasting the Democratic message. Just tell the truth and KEEP telling it!

OilemFirchen

(7,143 posts)
7. Youngstown is where New Jersey goes to fart.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:08 PM
Apr 2018

You couldn't get less "Midwest" unless you tore down Detroit and replaced it with Colonial Williamsburg.

Demsrule86

(68,618 posts)
20. That is completely untrue.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:41 PM
Apr 2018

Do you live in Ohio? Trump came damn close to winning in Mahoning County and did win in Trumbull think about that...loss of manufacturing jobs have hurt everyone in this area.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
8. Many will be deeply embarrassed to learn they spread Russian propaganda and voted against their self
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:10 PM
Apr 2018

interest- but it’s a lesson they need to learn. They’re worried about jobs becasue they haven’t magically appeared w Trump- they need to wake he fuck up.

NickB79

(19,257 posts)
9. To most of the responses here so far, I say: dismiss this at your own risk
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:13 PM
Apr 2018

Here in Minnesota, a state long known for being purplish blue, even among my fellow hardcore Democrats, the whole Trump-Russia issue gets very little traction. I have a diverse circle of friends, mostly liberal, and very few ever bring it up. We discuss the economy, the environment, women's and LGBT rights, whatever latest Tweet-scandal the Orange Anus has started, etc. What Mr. Betras is saying is true: a sizeable chunk of Democrats in the Midwest have barely followed the Russia scandal, if at all.

paleotn

(17,937 posts)
33. I'm not dismissing it....
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 06:31 PM
Apr 2018

I just find the provincialism, if in fact it is true, more than a bit appalling. Who cares if a foreign adversary has undo influence on the President. Or potential access to state secrets. That's just not the least bit important, now is it?

MBS

(9,688 posts)
50. I also am appalled. Especially, why does it have to be either/or?
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 07:18 AM
Apr 2018

Surely the Democratic Party (not to mention our country) can address job concerns as well as major (indeed, unprecedented) threats to our democracy? In fact, we've got to do this if we have any hope of survival.

Demsrule86

(68,618 posts)
19. He is dead...but I have to tell you...I swear I would vote him if he wasn't...he was
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:39 PM
Apr 2018

sent to jail when he was the Sheriff in Youngstown because he refused to foreclose on steel workers who lost their jobs...said it wasn't their fault. He was dirty no question, but he cared about Ohioans.

Mc Mike

(9,114 posts)
29. To each their own, Dr86.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 06:00 PM
Apr 2018

He should have gone to jail for all the wiseguy connections, and the Buford Pusser style law enforcement.

He voted with the repugs waay too many times for my liking.

Maybe he seems 'reasonable' when compared with the uber nazi repug party of today.

Demsrule86

(68,618 posts)
38. He was acquitted...but he cared for the working guy...
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 07:00 PM
Apr 2018

He voted against Clinton's trade stuff...and I never liked it either. I always support Democrats so I was stuck...same problem with Obama ...he was for free trade, but I am not a one issue voter. I always always vote Democratic. And see this is what you guys don't get about the Midwest. Traficante is looked upon as a hero for voting against free trade even if he joined with the GOP to do it. And we are in real trouble in the rust belt if it is perceived that Trump is helping end free trade and is restoring American manufacturing... what he has done won't work of course...but perception is reality.

Mc Mike

(9,114 posts)
40. I'm from Pittsburgh. It doesn't bother me if you draw the 'midwest' line at the border of Lawrence
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 07:40 PM
Apr 2018

County, PA and Mahoning County, OH, though.

The bottom line for me, re Jim, is that he openly was with the biggest organized criminals in the region, while he pushed his 'hard line law and order' fascism against non organized criminals. A dirtbag fake populist.

Demsrule86

(68,618 posts)
41. He was involved with the mob...but if you were from Youngstown in those days...it was hard not
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 08:46 PM
Apr 2018

to be. He did not climb in bed with them and carried a gun as two guys in some deal that went bad were murdered...disappeared. Traficant was involved. I am not saying he was a great person just that he cared for Ohio...I consider both PA and Ohio Midwest. Although, there are elements of the North East where I live. I used to live in Matamoras PA which borders Jersey and New York...two hours out of Philly and an hour out of new York.

Mc Mike

(9,114 posts)
46. I remember when the Cleveland Tune Up became the Youngstown Tune Up.
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 04:42 AM
Apr 2018

The late '70's early '80's version, anyhow. Danny Greene somehow got a hold of some c 4. That was after Chuck Nicoletti quit in Chicago, saying intel was taking over organized crime.

But my point was that he acted like a hard-charging uber-hard-ass 'law and order' guy, when he was stomping all over low income non-well-connected suspects, while, as you admitted, was openly involved with the mob. I remember him openly telling the press that he went to the Cleveland and Pgh mob for campaign donations.

Double think. Blatant in-your-face double think. Up is down, night is day.

He also was a teabag, voted with the repugs so much that he was stripped of all Dem committee assignments, backed the wackos in Waco and Ruby Ridge against the IRS, FBI, and ATF, etc. In other words, he is representative of a group of 'Dems' that should NOT be regarded as a bellweather by the National Dem party.

I like Marcy Kaptur. She's not pro-choice, but I recall that she told her constituents suffering under the '08 meltdown to stay (squat) in their own homes, make the banks produce the papers. That's an OH Dem I can get behind.

Owens

(200 posts)
11. Good to listen
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:19 PM
Apr 2018

Yes, it's good to listen to what Democrats in the purple states need to hear and discuss. That should be applied to all states, all candidates need to listen and discuss and point out how Trump is harming the economy and people of the USA. BUT, at the same time we need to continue to frame the narrative about Trump and Russia, his lies, his poor character, etc. This is how the Republicans made Hillary look bad by years of framing "crooked" Hillary and Benghazi and the emails.

Vinca

(50,299 posts)
13. If people were focused on jobs, healthcare and education they wouldn't vote for Republicans.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:25 PM
Apr 2018

The GOP has pretty much turned into a hate/treason/flimflam cult and Democrats in the Midwest should call them out on it. They might be surprised how the electorate responds if they don't make a point to suck up using GOP talking points.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,543 posts)
14. These Rust Belt Democrats Saw the Trump Wave Coming
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:26 PM
Apr 2018
These Rust Belt Democrats Saw the Trump Wave Coming

And they tried to warn the Clinton campaign.

PEMA LEVY NOV. 11, 2016 8:32 PM

Like labor unions everywhere, the local Plumbers & Pipefitters union in Ohio’s Mahoning Valley—a historically Democratic bastion due to the influence of labor—endorsed Hillary Clinton for president in September 2015 and urged its members to vote for her. But unlike in years past, when Roland “Butch” Taylor briefed about 200 members on the union’s support of Clinton and the prospective benefits of a Clinton presidency in May, the meeting didn’t go well. “I got a lot of boos,” he recalls. “I got a lot of chatter back. And out of the group, only one person came up and asked me for a T-shirt.”

“Right then and there, I knew something was wrong,” says Taylor, who retired a few months later. “I thought, ‘Well, maybe it will change as the campaign moves forward.'”

As the results on election night show, it didn’t change. Clinton fell well short of polls and expectations in the Rust Belt, losing two key swing states, Pennsylvania and Ohio, and two that were thought to be safe bets, Michigan and Wisconsin. Working-class white voters, including many union members, banded together into a pro-Donald Trump force that the strategists in Clinton’s Brooklyn headquarters didn’t see coming until it was too late. ... But local Democrats did. And they tried to warn the Clinton campaign.

In May, after thousands of Democrats had switched parties to vote for Trump in the primary, Mahoning County Democratic Party Chairman David Betras circulated a memo cautioning that Trump was making headway in his Rust Belt region and urging the Clinton campaign to take the threat seriously. The memo focused largely on the issue of trade, arguing that because Democratic politicians in Ohio regularly denounce the North American Free Trade Agreement and free trade generally, Trump’s anti-trade message was familiar and its appeal powerful. If the Clinton team didn’t find a way to counter it, Betras warned, she would lose a lot of votes she was counting on.

Demsrule86

(68,618 posts)
18. There are Democrats on the rolls who are not Democrats...much of the time they don't vote for anyone
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:32 PM
Apr 2018

This year they voted for Trump...we can't reach them. And to be fair...telling folks the jobs aren't coming back is not going to move midwestern voters.

hatrack

(59,590 posts)
15. Yes, let's not worry about an acidic pile of shit like Trump eating holes in the Constitution . . .
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:28 PM
Apr 2018

Let's not pay attention to the shredding of the rule of law by GOP in Congress, or the flat-out dismissal of science by the EPA, or inviting a foreign power to fuck with our elections, or the almost inevitable appointment of a Koch-owned Raptard to be Secretary of State, or anything else in the parade of obscenity that is DC these days.

Because after all, there's some hypothetical/imaginary guy in Ohio who can't find a job with unemployment at 4.1%. Priorities, right?

brooklynite

(94,646 posts)
21. It must be nice to lead such a virtuous campaign...
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:42 PM
Apr 2018

...I'll be focusing on tactics that actually win elections.

FreepFryer

(7,077 posts)
23. It must be nice to dominate the space of what wins elections.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:44 PM
Apr 2018

Is that unerring, superhuman confidence in the superiority of one’s own vantage point the gift that helped Democrats hold the White House, Senate and House of Representatives in 2016?

If so, thanks!

hatrack

(59,590 posts)
25. Maybe we could "reach out" to Trump voters? Maybe some tax cuts - yeah, that's the ticket!
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:48 PM
Apr 2018

The fucking house is on fire, but by all means, keep working for "balanced, sensible solutions" and "bipartisan consensus" or whatever it is that you do, other than drop names of all the politicians you know.

Be sure to consult a physician if your pragmatism hard-on lasts more than four years.

Blackjackdavey

(178 posts)
67. Aren't all politics local?
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:53 AM
Apr 2018

Isn't the point of a national committee one that focuses on broader, national issues while local committees focus on issues of local issues? Why does it have to be one or the other? Why are these localities looking for national solutions to local problems?

I am an employer, in a rural area. I will hire the first person with a beating heart that walks through the door with the proper qualifications. My wife will too, at her business. They never arrive. People aren't getting credentialed, trained, whatever, in the jobs that exist. No Politician at a national level is going to change that for individual communities.

Demsrule86

(68,618 posts)
16. Don't believe it...that guy is weak and needs to let someone else take over the job.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:30 PM
Apr 2018

Ohio has the worst Democratic party infrastructure of anywhere I have lived. The leaders don't do anything new and don't even raise money well.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
17. Don't care...
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:30 PM
Apr 2018

The wheels of justice aren't going to stop churning just to help their low-information constituents sleep better at night...

FreepFryer

(7,077 posts)
22. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Lets just put that whole conspiracy to defraud the US thing aside!
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:42 PM
Apr 2018

Not gonna fucking happen.

Blackjackdavey

(178 posts)
68. ???
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 11:31 AM
Apr 2018

Voters don't care about the naked destruction and theft of the public commons? The destruction of consumer protections and equal access to the education, economic and even political systems? Voting rights? The military as a viable strategy for getting ahead rather than dying during and after some ginned up corporate excursion for the development of fossil fuels while a green jobs revolution continues to be forestalled? If they don't care about those things it's because politicians and activists in those areas aren't very good at communication.

brooklynite

(94,646 posts)
69. Honestly, no they don't
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 12:10 PM
Apr 2018

They care about THEIR health care, THEIR jobs, and THEIR KID's education. Also, the average voter doesn't watch cable news shows or congregate on political blogs where your issues tend to get discussed.

Blackjackdavey

(178 posts)
70. It doesn't require news or blogs
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 01:40 PM
Apr 2018

to have an interest in any of the issues I described. I concede that it may require a meaningful education. I also concede that in Midwestern industrial areas it is probably very easy to convince people that environmental regulations or liberal immigration policies are causing them to lose jobs. But the economy is evolving. America is falling farther behind the rest of the world. There really isn't a strong industrial base as in days past and by all indications there isn't going to be. Therefore, longing for days of old, good blue collar union jobs, is probably extremely unrealistic which presents a pair of different problems. One, for Democrats to turn their back on what you describe as "my issues" either necessitates an adoption of a conservative, reactionary platform a la Trump or two, it requires straight up pandering and making promises that are basically lies. The third, best option, imo, goes back to what I said in the previous post: while I understand that the democratic platform may not be resonating with people it isn't because there is a problem with the platform -- it is the right platform imo. The problem is a failure with education and communication allowing people to link these issues, which starts at a local level. I'm not saying these things because I am a big city political operative. I'm not. I am a ridiculously rural dad trying to figure out how I can feed and house my kids, get them through college and watch as they enjoy fruitful careers and lives. That's it, that's my only motivation. The only thing separating me from the people I imagine you're describing is that I have a Master's degree -- that I obtained by joining the military and then working my way though college. Where there is a will there is indeed a way and lamenting a national political push to deal with grave, national level problems while waiting for national level politicians to solve local problems is unrealistic and unworkable.

brooklynite

(94,646 posts)
71. I'm not discussing what SHOULD be...I'm discussing what IS
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 02:22 PM
Apr 2018

To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld: You go to the election with the voters you've got.

Blackjackdavey

(178 posts)
74. I know
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 02:37 PM
Apr 2018

And what is is the local activists and politicians need to find ways to communicate how federal initiatives connect to their individual local lives because the platform shouldn't become one bit more conservative. Quite the opposite probably.

More_Cowbell

(2,191 posts)
27. It's frustrating, when the GOP lies about the issues people care about, with no consequences
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:55 PM
Apr 2018

So the Democrats are supposed to let the Russia conspiracy go, and talk about jobs and infrastructure and health care and civil rights in a meaningful way, while the GOP gets to ignore their guilt in the Russia conspiracy and gets to lie about jobs and health care, and suffer no consequences when they go back on their promises?

I get that talking about what we want to DO is more fruitful in some areas than talking about Russia. But I also have to believe that if the people who lost jobs and lost health care can't see that it's largely because of the GOP, there's not a great chance that they'll believe Democrats. It's like they have blinders on.

We need everyone to come out and vote, so I guess we need to target micro communities. It's just frustrating.

MountCleaners

(1,148 posts)
30. Horrible
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 06:00 PM
Apr 2018

I grew up around steelworkers. Of course, I live near Chicago. The Russia thing is endlessly fascinating here. I have little sympathy for people who don't want to learn what their President has done.

There is no excuse for ignorance about Russia, and this guy is insulting his base in creating this caricature. It's pandering. He's basically saying to talk to people as if they are stupid.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
34. But guess what? Economic insecurity is not the reason they voted for Trump
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 06:37 PM
Apr 2018

Just out in the NYT: “Trump Voters Driven by Fear of Losing Status, Not Economic Anxiety, Study Finds”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/us/politics/trump-economic-anxiety.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

If you read the whole article, which is quite interesting, it boils down to the finding that white, male, Christians feel threatened by all those dark people and foreigners and ladies. And that’s pretty much why they latched themselves to Trump. Losing a job had little correlation.

So if this guy (or any one else) thinks the Democrats need to change their message, they’ll have to do it by dog whistling more racism, xenophobia, and sexism.



WePurrsevere

(24,259 posts)
63. Yup, scared white christian males afraid of losing their flockin privilege...
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:38 AM
Apr 2018

I read that and literally yelled, what the FUCK, so loud my husband came rushing in to see what happened since I'm not normally someone who speaks loudly or cusses.

During the campaign and since, when they kept yammering about how was jobs and the economy even though it had obviously been improving over the years Obama was in office, I thought they were mostly just ignorant fake news mislead racist idiots being played by RepubliCons and Russia.

Now I can clearly see that it's that they're scared whiney ignorant mislead racist sexist xenophobic bullying toddlers, losing their binkie and not getting their candy, throwing a huge temper tantrum and being used by lazyass millionaires, RepubliCons and Russians hungry for power and longing to go back to the days when it was all about what THEY wanted and flock everyone and everything else.

Freethinker65

(10,028 posts)
37. Complete bullshit.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 06:46 PM
Apr 2018

Democrats have consistently talked about the economy and pocketbook issues. How the tax cut helps primarily the wealthy and will be used to cut programs low income and middle class workers depend on. They talk about teachers and service workers and those struggling to pay their bills. They talk about job retraining for future jobs, access to affordable education and healthcare, increasing the minimum wage, workers rights, etc.

True, the Democrats talk more about Trump's deference to Russia than the Republicans, but does anyone really expect the Republicans to bring up collusion, incompetence, vacation/golf time, of the head of their fucking party???? The Republicans will try their hardest to avoid any mention of Trump's endless ethics violations, misdeeds, and traitorous acts.


I can only hope the Democrats spewing such bullshit are doing so to convince a subset of voters that might be persuaded by Replublican talking points.

Zorro

(15,745 posts)
44. If they don't care that the President is a criminal and traitor
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 01:58 AM
Apr 2018

Last edited Wed Apr 25, 2018, 11:33 AM - Edit history (1)

and is deliberately wrecking the economy, environment, and the healthcare system, then they get no sympathy from me.

FormerOstrich

(2,702 posts)
45. Then the democrats in the battle states
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 03:27 AM
Apr 2018

need to communicate better instead of asking others to shut up. Pound the pavement. Rally the troops to pound the pavement. Connect the dots for them that it does matter. It is part of why they don't have a job, healthcare, and education. If that is the focus on the ground it should position the Democrats perfectly. Not hindering.

Republicans were shouting to impeach Hillary before the election (obviously believing she was going to win). I'm pretty sure the Blue State Republicans wouldn't be asking that rallying cry to be toned down because people don't care about it.

pffftt...nevermind it just pisses me off. wtf...if a segment of Democrats believe focus on jobs, healthcare, and education is harming their chances then I know not.

 

thewhollytoast

(318 posts)
79. Totally agree!
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 04:11 PM
Apr 2018

The Democratic National Committee could make a good start by at least acknowledging that their constituents are more than ready to fight. It's just that the DNC is fucking staffed with dust-bunny's that are too wimpy to start one. These "Chris Matthews" democrats need to get with the program, or get shit-canned.

Toast

yardwork

(61,678 posts)
49. They'd better wake up.
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 06:07 AM
Apr 2018

I grew up in the rural Midwest. Bunch of anti-intellectual racists with an attitude that somehow they're better than everybody else. Guess what. There's a reason why your communities are dying. You refused to learn anything in school and all you read is your Russian troll infested Facebook page.

BlueJac

(7,838 posts)
58. I think that is wrong...
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:15 AM
Apr 2018

most probably voted for Trump because of those issues and found out he was just another false profit. Being cozy with Russia is wrong and treasonous.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
75. Trump is a false prophet making REAL profits on our tax dollars.
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 03:43 PM
Apr 2018

We pay rent whenever Turd and the Secret Service stay at Mar A Sicko or Badminton.

Trueblue Texan

(2,434 posts)
61. Sorry, but I don't buy this
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:24 AM
Apr 2018

I am VERY focused on Trump Russia and believe it has EVERYTHING to do with why the economy doesn't work for the middle class. I believe Mueller is really going to drain the swamp, the depth of which we have no idea. This is VERY relevant to Dems and working people and non-working people everywhere.

jcgoldie

(11,635 posts)
73. As a Midwestern democrat...
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 02:25 PM
Apr 2018

I think the fact that the president is a handpicked Russian puppet is quite relevant.

greatauntoftriplets

(175,746 posts)
76. That's certainly not true of the Chicago area, except for Republicans.
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 03:56 PM
Apr 2018

Sounds like we're an island of sanity.

MountCleaners

(1,148 posts)
83. Absolutely true
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:02 PM
Apr 2018

The Trump supporters get annoyed, but they can't stop feeling annoyed because everyone else is talking about it. I hear talk about it every day at work. But it's the same down here in steel country in the Calumet Region. Like, people saying this guy's days are numbered. Even the Trumpies around here concede that.

JustAnotherGen

(31,834 posts)
77. I think what works there - will work there
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 03:59 PM
Apr 2018

And what works here - will work here.

Running towards Phil Murphy is being inherently pugnacious towards Trump - and it's effective. The first 100 days are done - and things are looking great in Murphy land. He had solid anti Washington DC Messaging and all about us, me, ours, prosperity, lets leave 'em behind etc. etc.

That wouldn't play well in say - Arkansas - but it's effective in the 7th.

33taw

(2,446 posts)
78. I live in central Wisconsin and find the Russian investigation completely relevant and
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 04:00 PM
Apr 2018

Follow it closely. However, I will say that I think the rural communities have other concerns that dems ignore. I think it is important to emphasize the impact that tariffs have or will have on the products that are sold by NE, IA, IN, WI, MI and other Midwest communities. The same with immigation issues - many farms have staff that are here legally from Mexico - they are leaving because of hostility. They also freak out that their guns will be confiscated and they won’t be able to protect their homes or go hunting (I know it is stupid, but it is a real concern of theirs).

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