Israel says Iran breaking nuclear deal
Source: BBC.com
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has revealed what he says are "secret nuclear files" proving Iran is covertly pursuing nuclear weapons.
He said 55,000 pages of material obtained by Israel showed Iran had deceived the world since signing a deal in 2015 to curb its nuclear programme.
It agreed to the deal in return for the lifting of sanctions.
Tweeting earlier, Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif appeared to accuse Mr Netanyahu of "fooling people".
US President Donald Trump has long threatened to scrap the deal, which was reached under his predecessor, Barack Obama.
European powers have said they are committed to upholding the accord.
Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43952196
I am supporter of Israel, but I wouldn't believe anything that Netanyahu says.
I feel toward Netanyahu the same way I feel toward Trump
I wonder if this is from the same sources that the so-called yellow cake lies that helped propel us into the Iraq War based on a lie?
Maybe Judy Miller can clarify it for us
greatauntoftriplets
(175,742 posts)still_one
(92,243 posts)pulls out of the Iran Nuclear Deal.
This smells so rotten to me, somewhat like the yellow cake LIE that bolstered our invasion of Iraq.
greatauntoftriplets
(175,742 posts)The presentation reminded me of Powell's powerpoint presentation before the Iraq mess started.
Mosby
(16,319 posts)They have always maintained that they were only developing nuclear energy, that was a lie.
Here is a better article than the OP.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-lied-netanyahu-drops-a-mossad-bombshell-on-the-iranian-nuclear-deal/
GoCubsGo
(32,086 posts)This is just a distraction from the fact that he's on the verge of indictment for corruption, along with his wife and a wide range of associates, as recommended by the Israeli Police.
Me.
(35,454 posts)The problem is you want us to do your dirty work for you
Roy Rolling
(6,918 posts)Bibi: Here, sit and read these 55,000 pages
Me: And then what?
Bibi: Then you will be too busy to notice the mushroom clouds.
sinkingfeeling
(51,461 posts)dembotoz
(16,808 posts)the math is simple and obvious
lark
(23,122 posts)He wants us to invade and bomb the shit out of Iraq, and will tell any and every lie to make that happen and has been doing this for decades. He's just not happy unless lots of Arabic people are dying because of him.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)repeatedly confirmed compliance and believe the Iran-hater warmonger....not I.
Isn't Israel the one with the secret nukes, actual nukes, agreeing to zero international inspection, not paper plans???
The hypocrisy is almost as great as the lies.
Mosby
(16,319 posts)According to the US, UK, Germany and France.
This resolution calls upon Iran to not undertake any activity related to ballistic missiles designed to be capable of delivering nuclear weapons, including launches using such technology like this launch. Space launch vehicles use technologies that are closely related to those of ballistic missiles development, in particular to those of Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles.
This step follows missile launches into Syria on 18 June and the test of a medium range ballistic missile on 4 July.
Irans program to develop ballistic missiles continues to be inconsistent with UNSCR 2231 and has a destabilizing impact in the region. We call on Iran not to conduct any further ballistic missile launches and related activities. We are writing to the UN Secretary General with our concerns. The governments of France, Germany and the United Kingdom are discussing these issues bilaterally with Iran and are raising their concerns.
https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2017/07/272934.htm
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Anything more recent than ONE rocket test 9 months ago...we all know Bibi hates Muslims, the Iranian kind in particular.
How about those secret Israel nuclear facilities uninspected...and never mind the secret nuclear arsenal.
Glass houses.....
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Then:
Now:
George II
(67,782 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)helmedon1974
(92 posts)Israel has had a boner for Iran for ever.
Cold War Spook
(1,279 posts)trying to keep us from knowing they were attacking the Golan Heights.
still_one
(92,243 posts)Israel.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Totally a rehash of the lying Iraq war lead up. Same story, different actors...except the led by the nosering war loving corporate media.
To see some here cheerleading more mass propaganda..old papers!...as a prelude to war is sad.
Now if only Trump and Bibi can get some yellowcake and pix of Iranian aluminum tubes....oh, and a lying Iranian nuclear scientist the war path is all set...again.
The multi-party Iran nuclear deal is fine and being complied with...we all know what this is about, one one non-believers, think with your head. Use history as a lesson.
George II
(67,782 posts)...but I feel the same way about him.
I wouldn't put it past him to lie about the existence of these "secret nuclear files" just to get gullible trump to back out of a deal that Netanyahu never wanted us to agree to in the first place.
still_one
(92,243 posts)to undo any accomplishments President Obama has done.
He is a lying, jealous, petty ignoramus
Getting out of the Paris Accords, Destroying the EPA, trying to destroy the ACA, etc.
Netanyahu and Trump are two sides of the same coin
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)Does anyone not doubt Iran is lying and cheating?
Have we become so political to trust the mullahs because Bibi is center-right?
Mosby
(16,319 posts)The BBC article doesn't cover the facts very well (what a shock)
https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-lied-netanyahu-drops-a-mossad-bombshell-on-the-iranian-nuclear-deal/
still_one
(92,243 posts)coincidental, and with John Bolton, who was part of the PNAC disaster that helped push us to invade Iraq based on falsehoods regarding WMDs, that action destabilized the entire middle east.
No, I do not take Benjamin Netanyahu or Donald Trump at their word.
I want the IAEA and other independent agencies involved in the analysis of those documents.
I doubt it will get that far though. Trump and Netanyahu want the nuclear deal to be torn up, and I might add so does Saudi Arabia.
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/saudi-prince-palestinians-should-shut-up-or-make-peace-1.6036624
That Saudis sudden are concern about the Palestinains is somewhat ironic since they are one of the countries who refuse to recognize Israel, and whose anti-Semitism is even more flagrant than in Iran
Yes, I remain skeptical, but also have no doubt that the U.S. will declare the Nuclear Deal null and void within the next two weeks.
If the U.S. terminates the nuclear deal it will immediately bolster Russian and Chinese influence in the Middle East, will end the deal's inspections, and the very real probability toward a direct military conflict with Iran, with ruinous consequences for regional stability and the global economy.
Ironically, I suspect the termination of the nuclear deal with Iran would have the exact opposite effect of what the U.S. would hope to accomplish.
What will be interesting is what the other countries who signed onto the nuclear deal will do. If they do not go along with the termination of the nuclear deal, and there is probably a better than even chance they won't, it will end up isolating the U.S., not the Iranians.
There is no secret that Secretary of Defense James Mattis is opposed to that, and no doubt in my mind that he will follow in the foot steps of Rex Tillerson and H.R. McMaster, and frankly that should scare the hell out of people.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)and ignore that the P5 plus 1 all obviously believed Iran was actively working on nuclear weapons. That is why they all worked so hard to get the deal.
Netanyahu is as much of a liar as Trump, though he is more polished and smarter. Here, though, he is actually doing something trickier. He is saying something that is true pretending it is newly known hoping people will hear what he is saying as meaning Iran is NOW not complying.
As J Street responded, Netanyahu made the case for why we needed the deal.
In the US, Trump and the right echo chamber have repeatedly said that Iran is cheating. Yet, Pompeo in his confirmation hearings recently admitted that they WERE complying as have other cabinet members.
This all while israel, Saudi Arabia and the US have argued that the middle east could be solved by all of the Gulf states allying wirh Israel against iran.
The drumbeat to war is clearer now than it was in 2002 and it was pretty clear then.
still_one
(92,243 posts)from the Iran nuclear deal is absolutely insane.
I suspect it is very likely the European allies who signed onto the nuclear deal are not going to pull out, and if that is the case this will be a foreign policy disaster for the U.S., and Israel, and if we are stupid enough to engage in military action against Iran, either with or without Israel. it will result in a lot of damage that will destabilize the whole region
The people behind this are the same cast of so-called "experts" who pushed us to invade Iraq based on a lie, and through that fiasco disrupted the balance of power in that region, and made Iran the force we are dealing with today.
Iraq is now under control of the Shia thanks to our invasion of Iraq, and the 70% of the Shia population in Iraq will not look kindly on any military action against Iran.
We are fighting ISIS who are Sunni in Syria and Iraq, and the possibility of us opening another front against Iran, will create a humanitarian disaster
As an added bonus, our stupidity is playing right into the hands of Russia and China
karynnj
(59,504 posts)This has been where both of these countries have been pushing for the last year.
I was furious reading the USA Today article in my local paper. It quotes just Netanyahu's claims and Trump
and says the deal was under Obama. No counter at all pointing out that there is a HUGE jump in logic in his speech. He proves that Iran was working on a nuclear weapons program ---something Kerry, Fabius et al clearly believed --- then argues that this "proves" they are still working on research and the deal was based on lies.
In fact, at least a hundred times, Obama, Kerry and Moniz made the point that nothing was based on "trusting" Iran. In fact, the very fact, that MIT Nuclear physicist, Moniz led the inspection monitoring program design shows this. The fact is the IAEA, OUR intelligence, the EU intelligence etc have not found Iran to be breaking out is the truth.
The problem was Netanyahu was NEVER honest when he went to the UN speaking of the danger of Iran getting a bomb. The deal made that unlikely for decades. The problem is that what Netanyahu wanted was an attack on Iran or keeping progressively difficult sanctions on Iran. His problem is that Iran really does support Hezbollah - as can be seen in Syria. There is no question that Iran is doing bad things in the region. It is also clear that Israel sees the "enemy of our enemy is my friend" as leading to Israel not having to negotiate a fair deal with the Palestinians to get solid relationships with the Arab countries. The Obama/Kerry/EU view was that it would be more dangerous to have such a country have a nuclear weapon. Kerry has been on record that Israel and some Arab countries were pushing the US to attack Iran in the years before they got a nuclear deal.
What we are again seeing is the neo con idea that regime change could result in a better geopolitical situation than efforts to tamp down the violence and to use diplomacy to cool the hot conflicts. We are losing any moral credibility that would be essential to create any diplomatic solutions.
still_one
(92,243 posts)pulling out of the Iran deal now gone or going, and Bolton ready to exploit the failed and most dangerous PNAC policies, I don't absolve trump of not being responsible, and just a "pawn" being played by others.
Trump is an egomaniac who believes certain things, no matter what the facts to the contrary show. Those voices that you refer to urging him to walk away from the nuclear deal are there because that is what HE subscribes to. He will not tolerate dissent
Look how many have left his administration. He only wants to be surrounded by YES people
karynnj
(59,504 posts)Bolton being put into his position was a clear sign of where we are going. (I had hoped that the huge NK opportunity might have led Trump to delay pulling out again to avoid jeopardizing what could be an enormous stroke of luck of being President when the two Koreas might be at a point where they want to open relations. That became less likely when Bolton has spoken of how the model they should follow is what happened in Libya. (Something tells me that Kim might look at the ultimate result -- not the giving up of weapons.)
It is depressing. I am particularly distressed as a Jew, that this - and the various annexation/settlements issues are making it difficult to accept any support of Israel.
still_one
(92,243 posts)Crutchez_CuiBono
(7,725 posts)still_one
(92,243 posts)It is not a coincidence that this is being done to give Trump justification to pull out of the Iran nuclear deal. However, what isn't being discussed too loudly is that the documents are pre nuclear deal, and why they worked so hard to get the deal done in the first place.
Netanyahu is conveying that this is newly known information. It isn't, and Netanyahu professing that Iran is NOW not complying with the Deal, counters the IAEA inspectors who have found no evidence of noncompliance.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/michael-hayden-former-cia-director-concerns-iran-nuclear-deal-cbsn-interview-tuesday-2018-05-01/
"In a presentation Monday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that material Israeli intelligence had taken from Iran proved Tehran was hiding a secret nuclear weapons program, and he called on President Trump to withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal next month.
But former CIA Director Michael Hayden tells CBSN's Elaine Quijano, in an interview airing on "Red & Blue" Tuesday night, that what Israel has in its possession just confirms what U.S. intelligence found more than a decade ago...............
I really hope Mueller is able to present evidence so damning regarding trump that he is forced out of office sooner than
later.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2049336
Jedi Guy
(3,194 posts)It's not as if the Iranians are known for being paragons of truth and virtue. And as Mosby has posted, they have been in violation of the agreement.
Netanyahu could state that the sky is blue and some folks here would call him a liar and say it's green, just because he's Netanyahu.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)The UN and the intelligence of the US and the European countries have all found Iran to be in compliance. There were some minor discrepancies. They had too much heavy water because their plan to sell much of it to the US was opposed by the Republican congress. This was solved quickly.
All of this is BEFORE the deal and the P5 plus one all believed they WERE working on nuclear weapons. This was no secret. Do you think all of them would have committed the effort they did, building sanctions, and devrloping the unprecedented inspection regime if they didn't?
Netanyahu was not honest then. He wanted Iran attacked or the sanctioned amplified to weaken Iran. There was NO possible deal he would have agreed to. Israel's own military agreed this deal made israel safer.
Takket
(21,578 posts)this comes out of the blue just when drumpf wants to start talking about pulling out...........
if they are still running a nuclear program... where? Iran's compliance is monitored by the international community on the ground and by the USA from the satellites............. so where is the testing facility bibi?????????????
Mosby
(16,319 posts)These documents prove that the Iranians have been lying all along about developing nuclear weapons, they have always claimed that they just wanted to built nuclear power plants.
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)....when the put their centrifuges deep inside a mountain and kept trying to enrich to 90% and kept developing IRBM's.
Nobody does that for a peaceful nuclear program.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)and still will not admit to the nuclear weapons that they actually have?
These are all pre deal documents, and there was no doubt on the part of any of the countries who made this deal that Iran WAS working on an nuclear weapon. If they didn't, why would they have spent the time and resources on the negotiations? Not to mention, there are hundreds of comments from everyone involved that speak of STOPPING Iran from getting nuclear weapons.
In fact, J Street's tweet pretty much said that Netanyahu's presentation showed why the deal was needed.
Link to tweet
and another post on Iran's compliance:
Link to tweet
As to the US statement, it is telling when Jennifer Rubin, who was exceedingly pro- Netanyahu and absolutely against Obama's and Kerry's efforts, tweeted:
Link to tweet
AZ8theist
(5,477 posts)with the last drop of American blood...
Fuck the Orange Imbecile and Bibi.
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)Interesting you claim Israel will fight using Americans, given there is minimal US military presence in Israel. (There is some, mind you, mainly training, logistics (for Americans elsewhere) and joint projects on missile defense -- defensive missile that now defend the USA, heavily assisted by Israeli technology and effort.
It's a unique position. With most allies -- the Germans, the Japanese, the Koreans, for example -- the US really does do the patrols, have soldiers on the front lines in harm's way, flying the planes.
In fact, much greater US money (not just blood) is spent defending those rich nations.
And yet only guys like Rand Paul tend to complain.
So did American spies risk their lives to smuggle out this info from Iran? Or was it Israelis?
Who blew up that massive long range missile factory in Syria yesterday? Oh, that was Israelis.
Who blew up Saddam's breeder nuclear reactor with their own pilots? Oh, that was Israel.
Who blew up Syria's breeder nuclear reactor supplied by North Korea? Oh, that was Israel.
Israel is the only real democracy in the Middle East. You have freedom of religion there. You can be gay there and not get your head chopped off. You can be gay and get married, in fact.
Israeli Arabs are the richest, happiest, and most educated group of Arabs in the Middle East. Christian Arabs are, in fact, the most educated and wealthiest group of people in Israel.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)Not the first US military personnel involved in any way.
It is pretty clear to most people that this entire episode, based upon the timing of words out of DC, that the US is supposed to light up Iran. Who benefits the most? Israel and Saudi Arabia. Oh, and that Israeli technology is nothing compared to the American technology that provides almost all of the weapons of the Israeli military.
still_one
(92,243 posts)others I am not aware of.
While your bullet points regarding Israel are accurate, the U.S. unilaterally walking away from the nuclear agreement I believe will be a disaster, and have the exact opposite effect of what it wants
It is very clear in the minds of most Americans that the invasion of Iraq was based on a lie, and it was that action that actually empowered Iran, and shifted the balance of power in the Middle East.
Anyone who believes that a few bombs on Iran or even worse, an actual invasion of Iran won't have unintended consequences, is completely ignorant of U.S. policy in Iran since the fifties
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)If you think Turkey is. They've all the trappings of elections, but they are not free countries.
Go in a central square in any of those countries and make out with a person if your same sex to find out.
Make sure shipping arrangements for the body are in place
still_one
(92,243 posts)they have an elected parliament.
The issue wasn't their tolerance of gay rights, it was if there were other democracies in the middle east, and the answer is yes.
You may not care for Erdogan, and I don't care for him either, but he was elected by the Turkish populace. I don't care for Netanyahu or Trump either, but they were also elected by their respective populaces.
Trump is a f**ing racist, sexist, and bigot, who is trying to dismantle Civil Rights, Women's rights, gay rights, Workers rights, Environmental protections, social security, medicare, etc., but that doesn't make the U.S. any less a democracy, at least currently
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)Without basic human rights. Turkey has all the trappings of a democracy. But it's not one.
Ergodan rounded up his political opponents and had them killed.
It's all a sham.
still_one
(92,243 posts)Mosby
(16,319 posts)Erdogan is cementing his control over Turkey in the absence of any real external threat. He wants to be dictator for life.
still_one
(92,243 posts)and Tunisia.
As for "our democracy survived that moment of war hysteria"
Yeah, and it survived the Native American genocide, the Civil War, the Joe McCarthy period, Jim Crow, discrimination against African Americans, Jews, (yes Jews, where I saw it first hand growing up in the Midwest in the late 50's and 60's), Henry Ford, Father Coughlin, etc.
As long as you weren't an African American, Japanese American, Native American, Jewish, or other discriminated group it survived just fine, and in fact is making a re-emergence as reported by the anti defamation league, NAACP, southern poverty law center etc.
Mosby
(16,319 posts)He's no different than Putin at this point.
EU observer in Turkey condemns referendum as 'neither fair nor free'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/eu-observer-turkey-condemns-referendum-result-president-erdogan-opposition-parties-demand-recount-a7686876.html
Turkey's President Erdogan claims victory in vote to give him sweeping new powers - but opposition cries foul
Eighteen constitutional changes would replace Turkey's parliamentary system of government with a presidential one, abolishing the office of the prime minister
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-referendum-president-recep-tayyip-erdogan-supreme-power-latest-count-a7686511.html
Turks went to the polls on Sunday to make a critical choice on a referendum to change the countrys constitution. The ballots contained no questions, but people had to choose yes or no.
Erdogan has called the no voters terrorists and traitors. Since the failed putsch last July, the general atmosphere in Turkey has been one of fear. More than 40,000 people have been arrested and accused of being part of the Fethullah Gulen movement, now labeled a terror organization, and about 100,000 state employees contracts have been suspended. There are journalists, academics or just tweeters who now behind bars as well.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/deep-suspicion-that-turkish-referendum-rigged_us_58fa8654e4b0f420ad99c776
still_one
(92,243 posts)morocco which I believe are valid examples
AZ8theist
(5,477 posts)Israel will never take on Iran by themselves.
That's why Netanyahu is GOADING the moran drump into starting the war...
Sheesh, get a fucking rational thought.
AZ8theist
(5,477 posts)I'm not sending my draft age son to go fight in some stupid war for a fucking moron trying to distract from his treason.
NO FUCKING WAY.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Nice bumper sticker you got there.
I'm not surprised you're unwilling/unable to support your premise with objective evidence, as bumper stickers are often the most advanced form of critical thought many are capable of.
Very popular these days to posses thoughts no larger than can fit comfortably on a t-shirt.
Keep on truckin'
Response to still_one (Original post)
Gothmog This message was self-deleted by its author.
Gothmog
(145,344 posts)still_one
(92,243 posts)Let's assume the information is correct. What should the U.S. do?
I can tell you right now if they unilaterally exit the deal it will be an international disaster, and we will be the one's isolated, not Iran.
I hate to think of the unintended consequences that will occur if miliary action is taken.
Doodley
(9,095 posts)to put it right to avoid war, and then Trump will get credit, talk of Nobel Peace prizes, and he will be at 50% in the polls.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Response to still_one (Original post)
Post removed
Wiccan Priest
(14 posts)I wouldn't buy a used car from this man. Or a new one!
Xolodno
(6,395 posts)Only one problem with that. The US is not the only party to the deal and if we pull out, Iran smiles. The rest of the parties will clearly uphold it...and boom, we are out of the loop, negotiating table, out of influence, etc.
Pulling out will backfire, and it will backfire horribly. Bibi, the schmuck who ran on making Israel more safe is going to leave office making it less safe.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)<snip>
"In a presentation Monday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that material Israeli intelligence had taken from Iran proved Tehran was hiding a secret nuclear weapons program, and he called on President Trump to withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal next month.
But former CIA Director Michael Hayden tells CBSN's Elaine Quijano, in an interview airing on "Red & Blue" Tuesday night, that what Israel has in its possession just confirms what U.S. intelligence found more than a decade ago.
"Late in 2007, we published a controversial National Intelligence Estimate that said Iran had stopped its weaponization program, it was doing other stuff -- the centrifuges, the missiles, and so on." Hayden explained that the U.S. had evidence that Iran had stopped that work in 2003.
"This wasn't absence of evidence, he this was evidence of absence -- that they were no longer working on the ... weapons program," Hayden said. And he recalled that U.S. intelligence had called Iran's denials that it was working on a weapons program "a lie," adding, "We always said that although they had stopped this core activity, they kept some other what we called 'dual-use' things under way."
The intelligence community concluded at the time that Iran was "at least keeping the option open" of resuming the construction of a specific weapon.
So, what Netanyahu has, Hayden says, is documentation that "fill[s] in the story that we and the Israelis had already been telling."
still_one
(92,243 posts)away from the Iran deal?
There is a very high chance that some if not all of the co-signers on the Iran Deal will NOT follow trump
So what is there strategy if and when that happens?