Trudeau Says Pence Scuttled NAFTA Deal With Untenable Ultimatum

[DonViejo]

Source: Talking Points Memo




By Kate Riga | June 1, 2018 7:20 am

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said that a NAFTA deal was within reach when Vice President Mike Pence scuttled it by demanding the inclusion of a “sunset” clause that would automatically expire the pact in five years, according to a Thursday Washington Post report.

Trudeau told the Washington Post that he was planning a trip to D.C. to finalize the deal when Pence called with his ultimatum. “I had to highlight that there was no possibility of any Canadian prime minister signing a NAFTA deal that included a five-year sunset clause, and obviously the visit didn’t happen,” Trudeau said.

The White House fired back at Trudeau in a Thursday statement. “The United States has been taken advantage of for many decades on trade. Those days are over,” it read. “Earlier today, this message was conveyed to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada: The United States will agree to a fair deal, or there will be no deal at all.”

This breakdown happened amid President Donald Trump’s decision to levy stiff tariffs on steel and aluminum imports from a swath of American allies including Canada and Mexico, provoking likely retaliation and a possible all-out trade war.



Read more: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trudeau-says-pence-scuttled-nafta-with-ultimatum

[Bernardo de La Paz]

1. Might as well have no treaty if insist on sunset clause. Business avoids uncertainty. . . . nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. Yes, and I can't see why Trump/Pence would want a "sunset clause" anyway.

Who would it benefit? It would just mean the next set of politicians would have to take extra time to renegotiate things.

[regnaD kciN]

26. It would enable them to tell their base...

..."We didn't commit the U.S. to a permanent bad deal. If this doesn't work out, we'll just let it expire. MAGA!"

[bucolic_frolic]

2. Trudeau is standing tall against these usurpers

Trump and Pence are selling the equivalent of extended warranties*

*(that expire when you need them.)

[ginnyinWI]

3. we are being presided over by a toddler. n/t

[wcmagumba]

4. We've got...

the savviest of savvy savvituers (note:made up word) leading the country.

[Civic Justice]

5. Maybe Canada can help us with the NEEDED American Regime Change,

We seem to be too weak to do so ourselves.... I'm sure the former U.S. European Allies will help them... Help Us. as we've become helpless against this madness and its demonstrated more and more by the days., as well get lulled into accepting it. All waiting on some fantasy to happen in November, yet, we don't have a massive campaign that massively promotes a Democratic Narrative which dominates any of the Media Networks... "everything is nothing more than a response to another daily Trump antic".

We are a nation that everyday, shows how weak we've become and how weak we are, Kids get shot up in schools, it hits the news for 2-3 days, and back to normal and then another schools get shot up... and its back to normal, waiting on the next one to get shot up. and a NRA Gun lobby has more power than the whole of the America people. That's just another sign of the level of our weakness. We see Racist embolden in every category, again, it shows the signs of our weakness.... and we still have not figured it out.

America may never again gain the respect it once had earned since the days and passage of the Civil Rights Act, of 1964, and certainly not be respected in the diplomatic sense as was present under President Obama.

We are now worst than some weak economically poor and uneducated nations of third world people, who are powerless to rid themselves of a dictator. "That is what we've become" !!!

The world knows it, they see it... and they see the downfall... as other nation position themselves to move up the as the power change as the next great nation.

When the hammer falls, all those nations we have done so much damage to under every Republican Administration, will line up to support if the Canada, the British and French, decide they have had enough of this "mad man and the madness he has made of the American Governance Administration and the damage it is doing to the world".... they likely find a great deal of support to demand a Regime Change in America.

Some nations don't have a problem ridding themselves of the vile element in their mids, and by now, All sane and democracy loving Americans should know

[The Mouth]

7. Last time we screwed with them

they burned down the White House.

just sayin'.....

[Civic Justice]

8. Different Era.....

[OnlinePoker]

9. Trump couches his decision based on "National Security" concerns

How long until he looks north for lebensraum?

[The Mouth]

6. We should have absolute equality in all trade

We should put a tariff on everything from any country exactly equal to the tariff of anything of ours they put on. If that's zero, fine, if it's 300% then that's what do to everything.

It puts it completely up to the other nation, if they don't want tariffs on their goods it's up to them, if they want a trade way, don't complain that we started it.

[Xipe Totec]

10. Nice recipe for another great recession nt

[The Mouth]

12. Depends.

Why should we let any other country get the better of us.

It's up to *THEM* if they want tariffs.

I believe in FAIR trade, not free trade.

so, why would an absolutely equitable and predictable policy result in a recession? Please explain.

[Civic Justice]

13. Free Trade was promoted by "Republicans" strongly, because they knew... they

supported American Industrial Leaders, moving everything "offshore" in search of slave wage labor, because they never got the lust for slave, indentured and pitting blacks against whites to keep wages low, and they'd rush to any shore to set up shop, to ensure that poor white and minorities would never again gain the economic uplift they once had when there were Union shops.... so the poor whites and minorities got poorer, and the wealthy gained more wealth.... and for every penny they made by chasing slave wages labor on foreign soil, it cost us 25-50 cent. which means, our cities began to go bankrupt, communities fell apart, schools declined, infrastructure crumbled and now we have a 'unfix-able mess" and the wealthy just got a tax cut that will impact the young people for the next 25 yrs or more, until they get old enough to "reverse the madness".

EVERY REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION has damaged America over the past 50 yrs.... and the damage this clown is doing now is set up to damage the next generation and impact even their offspring's with challenges. "They" wanted free trade so they would not have to pay to ship their low cost slave labor produced goods back into the country.

One day, the poor whites in the Republican Ranks will realize these things, and maybe they may never realize it.

[The Mouth]

16. Agree. Cogent analysis

I'm trying to figure out why simply having a reciprocal tariff with any and every other country wouldn't be impartial and fair.

We need trade; but it needs to be fair. No reason for China or Germany or Japan to put high tariffs on our exports without us reciprocating, neither should we screw African or South American countries.

[Civic Justice]

21. We've long since moved past the Bretton-Woods Accord, Post World War II

Last edited Fri Jun 1, 2018, 07:08 PM - Edit history (1)

Many nations are now Industrially Capable....

We allowed "Quota's" to be violated when we rushed to China and China at the time, let American White Men head their companies, and those same American White Men, violated the quota's and send stuff through the back door by various means and lobbied hard to get NAFTA and push Free Trade, because they thought they'd forever get to run those Chinese companies.

But when China used him, to set it up, get the doors open and then get the 'free trade express open" and quota's removed, the Chinese then "kicked the white man out of the running of their business, and bought him out, or paid it off, to get out of the way, because he was no longer needed. They only needed him to do what they as Chinese Could not do themselves without great difficulty and battles of wills, and the white men went for the Money Grab, and in doing so, their acts did create an express lane for goods to flow to America, duty free.... as in free trade!!!!! and because China used these white men to set it up, it was not done in a way, that China was obligated to import any more than they wanted to, because the white men who set it up, did not want competition from American based companies to interfere with the windfall profit gains they were being paid, based on the export totals and the income it generated. All China had to do was buy, U.S. Treasury, at a rate far lower than the profits from their own exports. and as Their exports increased to American, the value of the U.S. Treasuries they were required to buy, became to look smaller and smaller, because the export volume get astronomically, till, buying U.S. Treasuries was akin to ... spending a penny, to make $3 work of exports flood our lands and bring our own industry to a self destructive end.

Those white men who set all this stuff up in the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's many are dead and gone, and other are too old to give a damn, but they families live off the money they were paid to set up and participate in the demise of American Industry and its Industrial power. White people (white men in specific) never want self review and to see the malice of their acts, and they detest anyone pointing it out, especially if that person is non white).

Now, In America, we can't even buy a pair of tennis shoes that are worth anything that's made in America. We can't walk through our house without seeing a greater % of whats in it, that came from foreign shores.

Yet, we don't want to face the truth of how this came to be. Because society has been taught to never criticize a white man, no matter what he does. Now, we see that vividly in the way right winger's fight to defend Trump and get pissed off when someone catches him in his continue cycle and series of lies, and other corrupt dealings. They don't care, because he is a white man, and American history has tried to instill in society, never to question or make claims about white men.....

They've screwed Americas over to the Tune of Over $20 Trillion of Debt, and the average person stacked with 10's of thousands of debt on credit cards, trying to create a delusion that they are doing well.... when fact is they are buried in debt, and most can't make it two months if job vanished and no paycheck showed up.

But, still they don't want to see the rawness of truths that exist.

[Sophia4]

17. I have lived in some other countries.

We should look at the economies and systems of the countries that appear to be providing better products for less than we can.

We might learn something very important:

Our for-profit health-care system needs an overhaul. Employers should not have to buy expensive health insurance for employees. Instead, health care (insurance) should be paid for out of additional tax revenue and the profit should be taken out of healthcare insurance. It should all be non-profit. We and our employers pay far more for healthcare than many of our competitors on the international market.

The cost of training employees -- better education, especially education in mechanical skills, etc. as well as academic, including science education -- should also be borne by all of us as a society through our government. Education should be free. The competition for it should be won by those who take it seriously and master tasks and knowledge not by those who happened to win the lucky egg/sperm battle. Education should be an award for hard work and self-discipline. And those who master skills should be better trained and better rewarded than American skilled workers have been in the past. Older workers should be encouraged to train and re-train as their skills become obsolete or not sufficient to assist in improving the economy.

Those are just a couple of suggestions I recommend following based on having lived in other countries.

With regard to education, forget further dividing society by promoting private and charter schools. That's leading to a worse education system than we have. Rather encourage public schools to provide more diverse educational opportunities. And provide transportation for students in small towns and remote areas.

Look at how the countries that are outselling the US are doing it. Germany is a prime example when it comes to cars and items of that sort. So is Japan. So is South Korea.

Americans are positively provincial when it comes to making changes that will make our products more desired in other countries.

[Delphinus]

18. Bless you.

The health care is a substantial burden - I've been a Medicare for All proponent since I first learned out it in 2006 or 2007.

Education would be wonderful too.

Grateful you posted - thank you.

[Sophia4]

20. I used to be in charge of buying the health insurance for a small company.

Adding that cost to the cost of producing products contributes to the high cost and lack of competitiveness of American products. Health care has to be paid for. But think of it. Everyone in Canada has good health care and yet their products are apparently more competitive in terms of price and quality than ours. One difference is that our companies, those who produce the products we want to export, have to pay exorbitant prices for health insurance.

Our products used to be really, really good. My Maytag washer, probably made in Newton, Iowa, is still good, works very well, and I bought it used in 1985. Try that with the junk we import from other countries today. I bought a new dryer a couple of years ago and was told it might last 3 years. Horrors!

We should focus on making top quality, durable products and sell them for what they are: top quality and durable. We should brag to ourselves and others about the quality of our workmanship and creativity. Might be against the rules, but we should buck those rules.

Bring back quality American products. That is key.

And we should look at what other countries like Germany are doing. I lived in Germany (among other countries) and was really impressed by their apprenticeship and training programs.

[The Mouth]

19. Well Said.

One tiny thing I was/am hopeful for is a return to meaningful trades education. Not everyone wants or needs a STEM or Liberal Arts 4 year degree, but nearly everyone needs a damned good mechanic, plumber and/or electrician. I pursued my welding certificates before my last 2 years of the BA in political science and history. A good mechanic or carpenter is as important to society as a History professor, poet or author IMHO, and it's just as hard to become one as the other, and should be rewarded thusly. I deeply appreciate someone who can explicate history or philosophy, but the person who can fix the HVAC is just as important to my life and if they studied as hard and work as hard, why should they make less?

Honor labor.

and*YES* learn from other countries, both the good and the bad.

[Sophia4]

23. Right. And enjoying working with your hands does not mean you cannot also

study academic subjects. People should do what they truly enjoy.

[Civic Justice]

24. Thank you..

This University Degree Selling Business has made this nation and many of its people into 'programmed imbeciles", who want to do nothing, but collect money and chase and play status games.

There was a time, when people got degree's simply because they has special passion for a special field of science, medicine, technology and education and etc.....

Now, this dumb ass country want to claim one needs a degree to fill a few scoops of ice cream from a bucket into a edible cone.

When any University will give a degree to anyone who pays them money and show up, and if they show up and keep paying long enough they will give them a degree.

the biggest % of people don't work in any areas that is even remotely close to what they claim their degree is for. Its turned the degree game into pure profit driven absurdity, that churns out imbeciles, who think.... reciting a few lines from some dead poets is suppose to signify some level of specialized intellect.

We have kids by their own volition have learned more about computer programming, that some people who graduate with degree and claim all sorts of school based honor's and some of the kids will work a circle around them multiple times, before they can figure out what happen.

We need to get back to RESPECTING HUMAN NATURE AND THE HUMAN POTENTIAL OF INDIVIDUALS.... and not base everything on a degree, except for those who's passion drives them to pursue greater and greater collaborative in-depth study and interactions with like minded people focused in the specific field they aspire to.

[Civic Justice]

22. people won't like the truth... but... as we saw with Republican...

It's only ( some ) white people who are standing in the way of this country having full circle, high quality, national health care!!!!!

98% of every other ethnic group on this continent has been in support of Universal Quality Health Care for EVERYONE, for decades upon decades.

[OldHippieChick]

15. So I guess the art of the deal by the "best dealmaker ever" is

to tell the other guy he has to play by your rules or you're going to take your ball and go home. Negotiation by Toddler.

[CanSocDem]

25. Sadly, yes.

A common sales technique that is becoming all too common in the Trump WH. Most recently with North Korea.

It's a variation of the Bait & Switch technique that you have probably experienced by showing up to buy an advertised product only to find it gone and another more expensive product in its place. In TrumpWorld this kind of unethical bargaining is completely acceptable. It's all about putting the customer (Trump thinks it's the Canadians) on the defensive and more willing to sacrifice their position.

It's completely transparent but, the only way Trump knows. I think Trudeau can handle this...

.

[regnaD kciN]

27. Indeed...

From his business writings, it's obvious Trump believes in deals as a "zero-sum game" where only one side can "win." His avowed strategy isn't to bargain, it's to disrupt, threaten, bully, and whatever else is needed to make sure he wins and the other side loses.