UPDATED - Giuliani: Trump Has 'No Intention of Pardoning Himself' But He 'Probably' Has the Power...

[DonViejo]

Source: Mediate


Giuliani: Trump Has 'No Intention of Pardoning Himself' But He 'Probably' Has the Power to Do It

by Josh Feldman | 9:02 am, June 3rd, 2018

Link to tweet

Rudy Giuliani today weighed in on the question of whether the President can pardon himself.

President Trump‘s lawyer is back on TV, this time telling George Stephanopoulos in an interview airing on ABC’s This Week today that while Trump has “no intention of pardoning himself,” he “probably” has the power to do so.

“Doesn’t say he can’t,” Giuliani added with a laugh, calling it a “really interesting constitutional argument.”

He did add, per ABC, that the “political ramifications of that would be tough.”

Read more: https://www.mediaite.com/tv/giuliani-trump-has-no-intention-of-pardoning-himself-but-he-probably-has-the-power-to-do-it/

---

UPDATE:

Giuliani: Trump lawyers 'leaning toward not' letting president sit for interview with Mueller

BY BRETT SAMUELS - 06/03/18 09:25 AM EDT

Rudy Giuliani said Sunday it's unlikely President Trump will sit for an interview with special counsel Robert Mueller.

"Jay (Sekulow) and I want to keep an open mind. We’re leaning toward not (doing an interview)," Giuliani said on ABC's "This Week."

"But look, if they can convince us that it will be brief, it will be to the point, there were five or six points they have to clarify, and with that we can get this long nightmare for the American public over," he added.

Link to tweet

more
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/390445-giuliani-trump-lawyers-leaning-toward-not-letting-president-sit-for

[bucolic_frolic]

1. Refusing subpoenas is equivalent to pardoning himself

[Zoonart]

2. Shorter Giuliani...

"We don't need no stinking constitution."

[stopbush]

3. So, Rudy basically admitted that tRump has done things that would require a pardon,

because he is going to be convicted of doing those things.

The “right” answer would be that it will never get to that because the investigation will show that nothing tRump did was indictable or impeachable. But Rudy already knows that tRump has grossly obstructed justice and continues to do so on an almost daily basis, so it’s now an interesting Constitutional argument of whether tRump can pardon himself, not an argument whether tRump has done anything impeachable.

[thesquanderer]

5. Any infraction can be impeachable, if there is the political will.

And he would not have to pardon himself if impeached (i.e. in the House), only if convicted (i.e. in the Senate).

[PatSeg]

8. Yeah, he is quite the surrogate

His interviews are looking more like a comedy routine. Like Trump, he says whatever pops in his head and he is loving all the public attention.

[duforsure]

4. Rudy's suggesting

We should have a dictatorship instead of a Democracy. He's projecting what they want to do to prevent anything from holding himself or trump or his administration accountable. They want him to be above the rule of law , so he can protect them too. All treasonous criminals.

[grumpyduck]

6. I understand that TV stations

need viewers so they can sell ad time, and I understand that controversy attracts viewers, and all that.

But, that said,

WHY the hell do they keep putting Giuliani on?

Are they going for an Emmy in comedy?

[ChiTownDenny]

22. He's a documented liar.

I won't watch Todd; he's worthless. Last week Margaret Brennan allowed Mark Meadows to lie without challenging him. All that's left is Stephanopoulos. I decided a better use of my time was to give my dog a bath.

[JDC]

7. Rudy is a complete POS.

The "trial balloons" that he keeps launching are the most worrisome thing going right now for our democracy.

[Achilleaze]

9. Another republican lie. They are in the thrall of LIES

republican family values role model Dirty Donny can dodge the draft, but he can't pardon himself

[onenote]

11. Where is it written that he can't pardon himself?

[Achilleaze]

13. Where is it written that he is above the law?

republicans may blasphemously worship Dirty Donny* as their 'god-emperor' and their family-values role model, but Americans recognize that no one (no matter the size of their cult) is above the law.

* aka republican Draft-Dodger-in-Chief

[onenote]

15. That doesn't answer the question does it?

He's not above the law because he is always subject to impeachment. But legal experts generally agree that whether or not a president can pardon himself/herself is at this point an unanswered question.

[Achilleaze]

16. Since you think you know the answer, why in hell...

are you posing the question?

I think, too. And I think he can't pardon himself. And that's what I say. Your 'thinking' does not disprove my 'thinking.'

[onenote]

19. I was wondering if you knew something I didn't.

But you don't. I haven't declared that he can or can't pardon himself. Just that experts agree its an unanswered question. You, on the other hand, seem certain that he can't, which caused me to wonder whether you knew something the experts don't.

I shouldn't have wasted my time wondering.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

10. Rudy......STOP speaking in CODE......

Trump just might try to pull out a GET OUT OF JAIL FREE card. That would be another nail in the coffin for him. Obstruction of Justice, you betcha baby!

[SWBTATTReg]

12. The framers of the constitution didn't want a king to rule the country and ...

this was made clear at the time the constitution and most of its amendments written.

Thus, by inference, NO,

rump CANNOT pardon himself,

or otherwise, he would be considered to have the powers of a king (back in those days), having unfettered powers granted to do, just about anything, which the framers of our constitution made very clear that they didn't want (and of course all of us in today's modern times don't want).

We shouldn't be having to talk about issues like this, when so many other issues are out there to talk about.

rump, if he had any conscious concerns about the US, should resign, and do so now.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

26. If his power is unlimited, what's to keep him from canceling elections?

Not that he would ever ignore ignore the Constitution (the Emoluments clause) or any laws (the Congressional sanctions on Russia).

[Merlot]

28. I'm thinking it's because elections are run on the state level

States have their own constitution that would reqire them to hold elections.

[Sophia4]

27. The Framers were, many of them, men of the Enlightenment.

They were attempting to create a government in which there would be a separation of powers so that no branch would have ultimate power.

This is an idea that, in modern times, was described by Montesquieu, a French philosopher of the 18th century in L'Esprit des Lois. From Wikipedia:

The term "tripartite system" is commonly ascribed to French Enlightenment political philosopher Baron de Montesquieu, although he did not use such a term. In reality he referred to "distribution" of powers. In The Spirit of the Laws (1748), Montesquieu described the various forms of distribution of political power among a legislature, an executive, and a judiciary. Montesquieu's approach was to present and defend a form of government which was not excessively centralized in all its powers to a single monarch or similar ruler, form of government known then as "aristocracy". He based this model on the Constitution of the Roman Republic and the British constitutional system. Montesquieu took the view that the Roman Republic had powers separated so that no one could usurp complete power.[8][9][10] In the British constitutional system, Montesquieu discerned a separation of powers among the monarch, Parliament, and the courts of law.
. . . .

Separation of powers requires a different source of legitimization, or a different act of legitimization from the same source, for each of the separate powers. If the legislative branch appoints the executive and judicial powers, as Montesquieu indicated, there will be no separation or division of its powers, since the power to appoint carries with it the power to revoke.
. . . .

Montesquieu did actually specify that the independence of the judiciary has to be real, and not merely apparent.[13] The judiciary was generally seen as the most important of the three powers, independent and unchecked,[14] while also likely to claim to be the least dangerous one.[13]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers

Montesquieu spent around twenty one years researching and writing De l'esprit des lois, covering a huge range of topics including law, social life and the study of anthropology, and providing more than 3,000 commendations.[4] In this treatise Montesquieu argued that political institutions needed, for their success, to reflect the social and geographical aspects of the particular community. He pleaded for a constitutional system of government with separation of powers, the preservation of legality and civil liberties, and the end of slavery.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_of_the_Laws

We owe so much to the philosophers of the Enlightenment. Rudy Giuliani should know this. Shame on him.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Montesquieu

[Mr. Ected]

14. Guiliani was part of Trump's campaign team; I'd be willing to bet he is also under investigation.

The fact that he's morphed into part of Trump's legal team doesn't mean that Mueller doesn't remember.

Rudy knew that Comey was going to re-open the Hillary email investigation and said as much on FOX....2 days before Comey dropped the hammer. It indicates coordination with the NY FBI field office. And that's only the corruption we KNOW about.

[bettyellen]

30. Yeah, i was wondering if that's how he got him onboard... they'll probably complain Mueller's

investigating all of Trumps lawyers now... so unfair to him, LOL.

[briv1016]

17. Enough of this "let him" bullshit. Just subpoena him.

If he refuses have the judge find him in contempt and issue a warrant for his arrest.

[duforsure]

18. He wants...

Absolute power , so he can do anything without ever being held accountable to the rule of law, because he's a crook. The republicans in Congress are enabling him to destroy our Democracy.

[durablend]

20. Hahaha I fucking called it! n/t

[elleng]

21. Just keep talking, fool.

Seems he's caught trump-disease: Can't keep his mouth shut.

[SylviaD]

23. This is how Trump operates....and its working again!

First the suggestion of something heretofore unthinkable, something that no previous president would ever have suggested or entertained. Not Nixon, not anybody.

Today's idea? The president committing crimes, then shutting down investigations by fiat and pardoning himself.

Next, the refutation and denials. Of course he wouldn't pardon himself! (although he probably has the power) But no, he won't do that!

See how this works?

Just by slipping it in there, he makes the unthinkable seem possible. Soon, we will all be debating not the horror and absurdity of the idea, but whether or not Trump SHOULD pardon himself or not!

He does this every time, and the media goes along with it!! Some are going along with it now, debating as if this is a rational, democratic possibility instead of the ludicrous idea it is!

I. HATE. THIS. MAN. !!!!

Mueller???????????????????????????????????????????

[Auggie]

24. #1,000,000

[Maxheader]

25. No rudy...he can't..

Cheetoz can yell and scream about the pardon it gave itself
as the cops are dragging its worthless ass out the door.

[louis-t]

29. BLUFFING (cough)

[riversedge]

31. Rudy, you just showed the world how stupid you actually are!!

[forgotmylogin]

32. "if they can convince us that it will be brief, it will be to the point..."

What...Donnie can't cancel one day of golf to explain why he's not a treasonous obstructing bastard?

[JohnnyRingo]

33. He has to be convicted first.

Obviously, Trump can't be pardoned before he's found guilty of a crime. Then we'll see if he still has the powers of the presidency.

Have a little patience, Rudy. We'll get to him.