Manchin goes full MAGA

[DonViejo]

Source: Politico



The vulnerable West Virginia Democrat is embracing Donald Trump, figuratively and literally: ‘We just kind of do the man-bump type thing.’

By BURGESS EVERETT 06/06/2018 04:02 AM EDT

RANSON, W.Va. — Joe Manchin wants you to know he really likes Donald Trump.

The West Virginia senator doesn’t put it quite that way. But more than any other Democrat in Congress, he's positioned himself as a vocal Trump ally. In fact, the senator, up for reelection in a state Trump won by more than 40 points, told POLITICO he isn’t ruling out endorsing Trump for reelection in 2020 — a position practically unheard of for a politician with a “D” next to his name.

“I’m open to supporting the person who I think is best for my country and my state,” Manchin said this week from the driver’s seat of his Grand Cherokee, insisting he’s game to work with any president of either party. “If his policies are best, I’ll be right there.”

Trump’s popularity in West Virginia has Republicans salivating over the prospect of knocking off the legendary 70-year-old senator and former governor this fall. In response, Manchin is sidling up to the president — his policies, his nominees, at times even Trump himself — as the independent-minded Democrat prepares for the toughest race of his career against GOP state Attorney General Patrick Morrisey.

Read more: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/06/manchin-trump-west-virginia-midterms-626437

[hlthe2b]

1. nauseating...

[turbinetree]

2. Amazing..........................

[Le Gaucher]

3. hold on ...

that feels better now

[democrank]

4. Sickening....

(D) or no (D)

[MGKrebs]

5. It's disturbing, but,

the only choices are Manchin or Morrisey, so you gotta pick your poison.

[atreides1]

20. Not much of a choice!!!

One poison kills you quick and the other kills you slowly...either way you die!!!

I see Manchin pulling a Richard Shelby move if he wins, right after he's sworn in, he'll claim the the Democrat party doesn't represent his values or the values of West Virginia, and he'll switch sides!!!

[KPN]

32. I agree re: the poison. If a voter's interests aren't being served either way, why vote for

either? More and more Americans are feeling this way, especially younger voters. Which is why the current tug-of-war within the Democratic Party is kind of insane imo. Lip service to progressive economic issues is old hat and no longer entices voters to the extent it had in the past. Ergo, half-hearted turnout (compared to 2008) in key States as we experienced in 2016.

Will the GOTV effort work in 2018? Big question. With the disenchanted, it's definitely pick your poison and sort of like asking are you willing to be duped again.

[marble falls]

34. The problem is if one stays away from the polls over Manchin, they're also not ...

voting for the good Democratic candidates up and down on the same ballot.

Ballots need to have a "none of the above" option.

[KPN]

38. That is a problem. "None of the Above" won't fix that -- people can already choose not to pick

a candidate for any office on any ballot. It's the same thing.

The only real fix is getting money and its corrupting influence out of politics/elections. Only then will more people have sufficient trust in politicians to actually get out and vote. Fat chance of that happening short of a real civil war first though.

[marble falls]

41. Not choosing is non quantified. "None of the above" would be, as in....

Candidate A: 5 votes
Candidate B: 3 votes
None of the above 8 votes.

[KPN]

43. Ah. Do any States do that? Here in Oregon, they do count write-ins but most of the time

the write-in numbers aren't reported in the local media. Most States don't have a space for write-ins on their ballots.

I suppose your proposal would work if the numbers were reported and if, when "none of the above" won, there would be another election. But that could get messy and inefficient in terms of operational governance real fast.

[marble falls]

46. With voting machines I've noticed there are no write in provisions...

so a "none of the above" option would be easily workable. There should be a workable solution for write-ins even on machines that don't require asking for a paper ballot.

Actually, I want paper ballots back, machines are too easily compromised.

[KPN]

47. Paper ballots, big money out of politics, GE a national holiday, maybe even compulsory voting.

We need all or at least some of those things in order to have trustworthy politicians and elections. But I dream ...

[marble falls]

48. We better shut up: they lock up "dreamers" In cheetoliniland.

[MGKrebs]

49. That's the way elections work.

And unless you are in W.V. you don't get to choose anyway. Manchin is the candidate because the Dems there chose him over their other choice (Paula Jean Swearengin). We, elsewhere, don't have to like it, but them West Virginians are different than us and they get to be represented by someone who reflects their values.

The problem is not with the candidates, it is with the voters.

[KPN]

57. True. I agree.

Per my post no. 36, it's nevertheless frustrating. In the end, it even leads to some voters not voting which is also counterproductive.

[lagomorph777]

67. did you mean "Democratic" Party, or were you channeling Manchin?

[meadowlark5]

28. It's either Manchin or something far worse in that state

But if he's re-elected he will be a little beholden to the orange turd because he said he would work with it.

However, he at least is not a rabid, insane, bigot, racist, xenophobe like the republican no doubt will be.

[vi5]

6. And why wouldn't he exactly?

He knows there will be zero consequences. From anyone in the Democratic party. That message has already been sent loud and clear. And if anything he probably knows that he'll probably have more power than anyone else in the Democratic party in the Senate because his vote will be considered more important and precious than anyone else. The same way when we held 59 seats, the 3 or 4 conservative Dems got to dictate our healthcare policy and anything else they wanted.

And let's also be blunt here. If he's willing to praise and endorse Trump because his constituents demand it, there's no reason to believe he wouldn't not support a Democrat for majority leader. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.

[mountain grammy]

13. +1000

Last night before I closed my eyes, I was thinking about a public option and how distant it seems now.

[MGKrebs]

15. There are only two candidates to choose from. Which one would you pick?

[marble falls]

35. The Democrat or "none of the above" but I'd be in the voting booth. Too ...

often the constant drone of "they're all the same" squelches voter turnout from Democrats while Republicans turn out, hold their noses and vote.

This is how we got cheetolini.

[KPN]

36. Irrelevant question to anyone who isn't eligible to vote in West Virginia.

As someone who can't vote in W.Va, I find it extremely frustrating to be held hostage by a blue dog Dem who yields out-sized power within the party only because his single vote is so important.

[vi5]

50. My gripe is not with voting for the Dem.....

...it's with how these spoiled children behave once they are in office.

For the past 10-15 years the way Dems have chosen to handle these spoiled children is to indulge them and make them feel more important than the rest. They've chosen not only to not have any repercussions at all for these spoiled children but to make it clear to all that they are more important than the rest.

And what irks me is that most of the people especially on these pages right here who call for indulging these conservative Dems every whims and approving of the current Dem leadership strategy of allowing this extremely small minority of Democrats essential veto power over everything are the first ones to cry foul every time Bernie does anything that in their minds (the reality is much different) "undermines" the goals of the Democratic party.

Can you imagine the outrage if anyone (Bernie or otherwise) threatened to stop an almost universally supported Democratic led and sponsored legislation because it wasn't liberal enough? Do you honestly think anyone would excuse it with "Well, we need that vote!!!" or "But they voted for Majority Leader Schumer!!!"

And that's not even getting into the fact that someone who would say what Manchin is saying is in no way guaranteed to vote for or caucus with Dems. For an example of that see the New York state Legislature.

So no my proposal is not to not vote for the Dem but it's also not to indulge every whim of conservative shitheels like Manchin (or Baucus, Bayh, and Lincoln before him), which seems to be the Devil's bargain we are all being offered here.

[KPN]

39. Exactly!

The only way around all of this is to capture and dominate the Senate, House and White House to the extent that the out-sized power of blue dog Dems is diminished. I don't see that happening until things get a whole lot worse than what they are now. Too many Americans are still doing reasonably well enough to not upset their own applecart. Exactly how the oligarchs planned.

[vi5]

54. We had 59 votes....

...and we still turned the Senate over to 3 blue dogs back in 2008 because our leadership was scared of offending them in any way.

Meanwhile the Republicans are running roughshod over the entire country with an almost non-existent majority of.....what is it now....52?

[progressoid]

69. Yep. Just like Ben Nelson of Nebraska.

[YOHABLO]

7. If he's going to suck up to Trump and support his agenda ...then what good is he to D's?

[vi5]

8. But....but...

..we're supposed to believe he's willing to support Trump and his agenda.....willing to endorse him OVER A DEM for president in 2020, but that we need him because he's a sure vote for Majority Leader Schumer.


Riiiiiiiiiiight.

But by all means people should continue to tell me how horrible Bernie Sanders is for the Democratic party.

[yallerdawg]

14. If Schumer is the Majority Leader in the Senate...

then we control all the committees, we control what gets investigated, we control what legislation gets proposed, we control who gets nominated - we shut down the Dotard.

If it takes a Blue Dog to get elected in a Deep Red State and get us a majority - it's better than what we have now.

[MGKrebs]

16. What does Bernie Sanders have to do with this?

[BlueMTexpat]

19. Good question!

[vi5]

51. Because....

..Bernie unquestionably caucuses with the Democrats.
His vote is just as important as Manchin's
He votes with the Dems way more than Manchin.
He would unquestionably vote for majority leader Schumer (a way more reliable bet than Manchin doing so).

Yet his every move is bitched about on here every day as "undermining the Democratic party" or whatever other claptrap. We're told essentially (sometimes literally and in so many words) that "we don't need him"

Meanwhile someone who is actually and quite literally undermining the Democratic party, quite literally is promoting and praising and threatening to support the enemy, and quite plausibly could not support a Democrat for majority leader is defended as a necessary part of the Democratic Senate who we need to support and indulge. Often by the same people I'm referring to in the previous paragraph.

[MGKrebs]

55. They are two different states!

Bernie doesn't get to be senator in more than one.
Besides, WV voters had a chance to nominate a progressive candidate and didn't get it done.

"who we need to support and indulge". Not sure about that, but at least "tolerate", given the alternative.
Maybe WV voters will come around someday.

[vi5]

56. Again.....I'm not complaining about who they chose...

.....And I will freely admit that it's possible I'm complaining about something before it happens (but based on having learned my lesson from multiple examples).

But yes West Virginia is a different state. And as such it shouldn't get veto power over the other majority of the states who may pick Democrats who support the Democratic agenda. Bernie and Vermont both support more than 95% (I'm lowballing here) of the Democratic party platform and agenda so nobody is giving them an outsized say over what happens.

We had 59 Senators in 2008. Yet the 3 most conservative ones got to design our healthcare law and had veto power over whatever they wanted. That's note even getting into the number of times we had to fall all over ourselves not hurting Joe Liebermans fee-fees to get something done.

If that doesn't end up happening with Manchin, and they offer up repercussions for any attempts to stifle the Democratic party agenda,then I'm fine with that. But nothing in history tells me that will be the case.

And this is all still under the big assumption that he is going to vote for a Democrat as majority leader. I notice that nobody wants to ask him this question since I'm sure they are afraid of what the answer will be. And honestly I'm not for a minute trusting anyone who even says for a minute they might endorse or vote for Trump in 2020.

[JI7]

9. It's west Virginia.

[hatrack]

10. I don't care if it's the Federated States of El Dorado, or the Republic of Hell

He's willing to ENDORSE TRUMP?

Fuck him.

[7962]

12. Well, its him or the republican. The Senate is about numbers, you want one less?

[hatrack]

18. If it's Manchin the MAGGAT, then yes

7/17 The Hill - voted w. Trump 58% of the time - http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/341468-manchin-defends-voting-record-in-interview-with-liberal-the-young-turks

Manchin voted to confirm Pruitt
Manchin voted to confirm Carson
Manchin voted to confirm Haspel
Manchin voted to confirm Perry - a "ringing endorsement" in fact:

And he's stated that he's willing to endorse the worst president in the history of the country, a candidate not even of his own party?

At least the Republican will be an openly corrupt, contemptible Trump whore, and it's not hard to see Manchin going full Zell Miller - if he keeps his seat but the GOP retains the Senate, he'll flip just like Justice did in the same state.

[7962]

26. Voted with trump 58%? Well, Kaine voted 34%, Nelson 43%, etc, wanna ditch them too? Others?

Even Maxine Waters has voted "with" trump on some bills. MOST bills arent blatantly partisan. Its just like the SCOTUS, many times the votes are near unanimous. Those votes just dont make the news.

Look at Doug Jones numbers, 56%. But everyone was celebrating when he won in Nov. Because the alternative was ROY MOORE

[forgotmylogin]

21. This is why the R's win.

"He's a pedophile missing half his brain due to a flesh-eating virus and has partially morphed into a giant cockroach? Bright lights cause him to urinate uncontrollably? He has an R next to his name so he'll ratchet one for our column? ENDORS'D!"

[7962]

24. If you're in WV, its 1 of the 2. WV Dems should've picked a more liberal opponent. They didnt.

But for everyone else OUTSIDE of WV to be saying Manchin is awful, well the ONLY OTHER CHOICE for WV residents is the republican. Thats just the way it is. If you WV Dems wanted a more liberal candidate, they could've voted for one in the primary. They didnt.

Voting "with" trump 58% of the time isnt voting with him 100% of the time. Its not all or nothing or the Dems will NEVER win back Congress. Look at the PA Dem who won; he's no left wing Dem. But he flipped that seat.

[FSogol]

11. Politico article, people. Anything in it is exaggerated to divide democrats. SSDD at Politico.

Manchin said "if." We all know Trumpian policies will never be the best.

[Salviati]

22. And it works all too well

Because there are plenty of people here who are all too willing to cut of their nose to spite their face

[FSogol]

23. True. n/t

[7962]

25. See above.

[KPN]

37. Good point. Politico is our enemy, even if they exaggerate not to intentionally undermine our party,

but just to create more "newsworthy" drama. Ignore Politico!

[Salviati]

40. Right - "Agrees with trump more than any Democrat"

Also, disagrees with trump more than any republican. It's also home to many stories of the "look at these few Democrats who voted with the republicans on this terrible thing" while burying the lede that EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN also voted for it.

If you want to stop the tide of bad legislation, then we need to elect more Democrats. End of story. The worst Democrat is miles better than the best republican. This INCLUDES Joe Manchin.

[progressoid]

68. He's got a little crush on Trump.

I’ve had more personal time with Trump in two months than I had with Obama in eight years.

“I can call Donald Trump now, and he’ll probably pick up,” Manchin said in his office. “He picks up his phone. If you’ve got his number, he’ll talk to you. Damnedest thing I ever seen in my life. And he’ll call me and say, ‘Hey, this is Donald.’” Trump had called him—the first of several conversations—on Thanksgiving weekend. “Just called me out of the clear blue sky,” Manchin said. “And he says, ‘I know you’re a centrist Democrat, and you don’t look at party lines, and you want to work across the aisle and get something done, and I want to work with you.’ I said, ‘Oh, you got no problem with me.’”

[Maxheader]

17. Dino dude...it must go...

Benedict Arnold...gop shoe licker...

[redstateblues]

27. Obviously a lot of posters haven't lived in a deep red state

With two Republican Senators

[exboyfil]

29. The Senate map sucks

We very well might be at 55-45 after the 2018 election. Only three competitive Republican seats and six to nine Democratic seats (including DINO Manchin).

[Sunlei]

30. ""If his policies are best, I'll be right there."

snake handling isn't an easy job

[k8conant]

31. I am a WV Democrat...

and as much as I'd rather have a Democrat other than DINO Manchin in the Senate (I voted for Paula Jean Swearingen in the primary), there's no way I'd vote for the sleaze bag AG Patrick Morrissey. We also need to get rid of Shelley Moore Capito in 2020.

[Fiendish Thingy]

33. As long as he has a D after his name, we must blindly, unquestioningly support?

To do otherwise would be "divisive", amirite?

Must we wait until he goes full Zell Miller and speaks at the GOP convention to repudiate Manchin?

[Salviati]

44. As long as he's voting for a Democrat for Senate Majority Leader

then he's miles ahead of any republican. If you supported Swearengin in the primary then that's your right on the board, but now that Manchin has won the primary you don't have to post glowing adoring praise of him, but if you're attacking him, prepare to have your posts reported. Might I suggest just not posting about him at all? Don't take the trolls bait.

[vi5]

53. And we're supposed to believe...

..that someone who is quite literally saying they will endorse Trump over a Democrat for president will definitely vote for a Democrat for majority leader?

Again...I give you the New York State Senate for a great example of what happens when we make those assumptions about conservative Democrats (in a blue state no less).

[bearsfootball516]

59. I don't like him very much either, but would you rather have a Republican in office?

[vi5]

63. My point is...

.....without commitments that he's going to 1) vote for a Dem as majority leader (which we are all taking on faith, from a man who just said he might endorse Trump over a Democrat in 2020) and 2) not stymie the Democratic agenda once we do have control then all of this means nothing.

So yeah, unless those two things are verifiable facts then I ultimately don't give a fuck if it's a Republican or a Democrat who votes with and caucuses with Republicans.

And as I keep saying, look at what has happened in the blue state of New York, with a Democratic governor and a majority elected Democrats in the state house. Democrats should have control because there are a majority of Democrats, but enough of the Independent Democratic Caucus of elected Dems have voted to give control of the state to Republicans.

So yeah, you'll have to forgive me if we are getting royally screwed in a blue state that elected a majority of Democrats and I don't necessarily take it on faith that the Democrat in West Virginia who has continually bashed the party and praised Republicans AND Trump is a reliable thing for us.

To me all this just strikes me as the internal Democratic version of our continued and misguided belief that if we negotiate with and give Republicans what they want now, that down the line they will HAVE to help us out or support us.

[mvd]

64. I think going MAGA is just way too much

Maybe it is one case where the voters aren't ready for a clear alternative. But he doesn't have to go along that much! I have no confidence he'll stay caucused with us if he thinks our Presidential nominee is too liberal or something.

[melman]

62. Don't even talk about him at all?

WTF?

[honest.abe]

45. In a word.. yes.

AFAIK he still plans to caucus with the Dems therefore, yes, "we must blindly, unquestioningly support" him.

[JohnnyRingo]

42. It's the coal talking.

Much like nearly every republican who can't stand Trump but abides by his tweets, Manchin will say whatever keeps his seat. Right now, bad mouthing Trump in West Virginia is the quick route to spending more time with his family. Hopefully that will change, and so will Weathervane Joe.

[duforsure]

52. Why is he still in office

What's in the water there to make people vote for someone like this who'll betray you and the things we need such as health care and Social Security, because this guy cannot ever be trusted for anything. He's helping destroy many programs and policies hurting people badly. Their tax scam was one example when its giving billions to the wealthy, while eliminating health care for millions and millions of people , and causing premiums to skyrocket on us all. They say in 2-3 years the premiums for the ACA will increase at least 90%. Because of people Manchin votes with consistently. Vote him out of office people.

[Schedule]

58. Smart move by Manchin

The only way to win the West Virginia vote is my pretending to be crazy.

[Blue_Tires]

60. I've tried to be accomodating of Manchin and his unique electorate

but now he's crossed a line

[RhodeIslandOne]

61. Gutless fucking coward

[brooklynite]

65. Manchin can say what he wants in the campaign.....

He'll vote for Schumer for Senate Majority Leader, and he votes with the Democrats more than you think he does.

[progressoid]

66. Thank God he's one of ours and not one of those evil Independent politicians.

Manchin has voted for nearly every Trump nominee, except Betsy Devos and Wilbur Ross. And he was the only Democrat to vote in favor of Jeff Sessions.