Ocasio-Cortez Confronts Crowley Over His 'Third-Party Challenge'

[Tarc]

Source: New York Times

So will Representative Joseph Crowley remain on the ballot in November, and challenge Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as a third-party candidate on the Working Families Party?

That question, raised in an article in The New York Times about third-party politics in New York, took on a life of its own Thursday morning, as Ms. Ocasio-Cortez took to Twitter to complain about Mr. Crowley — with the longtime congressman quickly responding.

Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, 28, wrote on Twitter that Mr. Crowley “stood me up for all 3 scheduled concession calls. Now, he’s mounting a 3rd party challenge against me and the Democratic Party — and against the will of @NYWFP.”

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/12/nyregion/ocasio-cortez-crowley-twitter.html

---

We really do not need this type of divisiveness right now.

[LiberalFighter]

1. Apparently Crowley didn't get the message.

Go home and stay home.

[Cha]

64. Joe Crowley has already conceded.. it's AOC who made the "mistake"..

Link to tweet

[George II]

67. I wonder if an apology will be forthcoming?

[Cha]

68. Seems it's been on the downlow.. mustn't

have "mistakes" broadcasted.

She's off to Kansas now with BS.. but it would show some class to issue a public mea culpa to Joe Crowley.

He wasn't "mounting" a freaking 3rd party campaign.

[NurseJackie]

109. Class indeed. It would. But will she?

but it would show some class to issue a public mea culpa to Joe Crowley.

Class indeed. It would. But will she?

All I'm saying is that it remains to be seen, but from all appearances it won't happen.

It makes me wonder what good purpose it serves for anyone to be like that?

[Equinox Moon]

2. It is possible we will see more and more that it is individuals running for office vs a party

This does not surprise me that Crowley is not able to accept the loss and step down.

[emulatorloo]

10. He's not "running third party". He has thrown his support to AOC

More info on this in an earlier thread:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210858969

[Equinox Moon]

11. What is "AOC"?

[emulatorloo]

12. "AOC" are the initials of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's name

He’s supporting Ocasio-Cortez.

[Equinox Moon]

15. AOC tweet: "...he's mounting a 3rd party challenge against me and the Democratic Party..."

She has posted that he is running 3rd party in a couple of tweets, even your link quotes her stating such.

[emulatorloo]

18. And Crowley tweet reiterates that he supports her and is not running 3rd party

There are more details of what is going on in the earlier thread I referred you to.

Here’s the link again.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210858969

[Cha]

65. "..called Crowley's team Thursday to admit the information she blasted out on twitter was "a mistake

Link to tweet

[bettyellen]

77. She is mistaken. And used it as a fundraising ploy...

With some bullshit references to “dark money”. She hasn’t had the class to apologize either.

[NurseJackie]

110. That seems to be a bit deceptive.

And used it as a fundraising ploy...

That seems to be a bit deceptive.

She hasn’t had the class to apologize either.

Initially I was wondering why she wouldn't apologize, but now that I see what her motivation is, it's clear to me.

Hmmm.

[bettyellen]

112. Between the nonsense about "dark money" and people calling Emily's List "the establishment"

I’m pretty disappointed. I feel like she is being used already and she hasn’t even won a seat. BTW, have you seen the new Sacha Cohen Baron show? He punked some politicians pretty good, especially 2A people.

[NurseJackie]

113. I chuckle every time I hear them use "the establishment" as a pejorative.

and people calling Emily's List "the establishment"

I chuckle every time I hear them use "the establishment" as a pejorative. It's like they have NO CLUE what it means (particularly because their preferred politicians are CLEARLY (and actually) "establishment" even though they deny it, or can't recognize it).

All I'm saying is, whenever I see that word being bandied about by a particular online element, I automatically interpret their actual meaning as "someone we don't like". It's a catch-all term that covers the category of "someone that I can't name any particular area of disagreement with, but this is such a nebulous attack that it can mean anything I want it to mean".

[bettyellen]

114. I explained to a friend that they're just slighting people who stand up for human rights- and

Trying to make that human rights struggle a bad thing. Once because they are still playing to the myth that Mr WWC isn’t a bigot. You’d think they’d admit that by downplaying the human rights angles is specifically to appeal to their bigotry. They can’t have it both ways.

[brush]

128. That phrase is straight out of the 60s protest movement and a certain...

Senator from a small state dusted it off to continually attack the Democratic Party establishment.

[still_one]

17. I am so pissed at the NY Times ever since the WMD garbage. They have been stiring this kind of crap

up for sometime now with misleading headlines and misrepresentations, along with going out of their way to present false equivalencies between republicans and Democrats

This is petty bullshit, and the NY Times is going out of their way to present division among Democrats with the upcoming midterms

[lagomorph777]

53. NYT Working for Putin now?

They had been doing good work for a while; maybe that's over.

[still_one]

55. no, but stirring the pot unecessarily to gain readership

[RandySF]

3. In typical NYT fashion, it's not the full story

But nobody cares.

[tkmorris]

4. It's not? Well fill us in then

[emulatorloo]

7. More info in an earlier thread:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210858969

[RandySF]

8. I don't have time and you seem wound up for a fight

The NY Daily News has a good article.

[recentevents]

5. He's a democrat

Why is he not doing what's best for the party and supporting the winner of the primary? Who are his backers? What does the DNC have to say about this? Why aren't more people upset about this? We need every seat we can keep/take and he's going to split the ticket?

[emulatorloo]

13. He is supporting Ocasio-Cortez. He Isn't running third party.

>Alexandria, the race is over and Democrats need to come together. I’ve made my support for you clear and the fact that I’m not running.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Alexandria, the race is over and Democrats need to come together. I’ve made my support for you clear and the fact that I’m not running. We’ve scheduled phone calls and your team has not followed through. I’d like to connect but I’m not willing to air grievances on Twitter. <a href="https://t.co/hxEeWEpI2O">https://t.co/hxEeWEpI2O</a></p>— Joe Crowley (@JoeCrowleyNY) <a href="

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 12, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[brush]

54. Her inexperience is showing. She's overreacting to an inaccurate...

NYT headline.

Crowley is not mounting a third party run, in fact he responded that he is supporting her and that the primary is over.

The WFP put Crowley on their ballot just as many third parties do to Dem and even repug candidates. Ocassio herself was added to another third party ballot.

Again, Crowley in not mounting a run against her. To remove his name from this other party's ballot is a complicated procedure that involves running against another Dem in another race—very convoluted, and unnecessary really as Dems outnumber repugs in her district 6-1.

She needs to apologize and move on and run her campaign for the general and stop obsessing over the primary.

[Adrahil]

41. He IS supporting her. Pay attention, FFS. NT

[recentevents]

58. FFS?

Is he supporting her by not taking his name off the ballot? Or is he supporting her by dodging the concession phone call? Oh I know, he's supporting her by calling her team incompetent.

[sheshe2]

78. The links that have been provided to you explain it all.

Yet you refuse to read them.

Oh I know, he's supporting her by calling her team incompetent.

Do you have a link to this? The man has been nothing but gracious.

[George II]

73. I guess you haven't been keeping up on the "recent events".

[sheshe2]

80. Lol

You made me choke on my Twizzlers!

[recentevents]

81. yeah, so clever

using a posters screen name to insult them. funny huh?

[sheshe2]

83. Lots of peeps make fun of mine.

I lol when they do.

[recentevents]

108. HAHA

You know what else is really funny, hysterical in fact. Is that here on DU we have posters telling a WOC to apologize to a white man for "mistakingly" thinking he was pulling some political stunts...... seeing as he hasn't made that concessionary phone call and all.

People here on DU accepting the condescending tone of a WHITE MAN to a WOC telling her it's HER fault she hasn't gotten the call.

Yeah, this is all so amusing.

[NurseJackie]

111. ...

Yeah, this is all so amusing.

That's not the only thing that's amusing!

[sheshe2]

117. Yet he had graciously conceded...

he also made several scheduled phone calls to her to assist her as promised. She was never available to take his calls. She made more than one mistake and frankly I would feel the same way of any candidate no matter what color or sex they were, she should have apologized. A member of her own team said the calls were made, unanswered and that she was in the wrong.

Crowley pushed back against Ocasio-Cortez’s accusation on Twitter Thursday morning.

“Alexandria, the race is over and Democrats need to come together. I’ve made my support for you clear and the fact that I’m not running. We’ve scheduled phone calls and your team has not followed through. I’d like to connect but I’m not willing to air grievances on Twitter," Crowley wrote.

snip

A Crowley campaign staffer who spoke on condition of anonymity said three calls that were missed between Crowley and Ocasio-Cortez were due to hang-ups on her end, not the other way around.

snip

The aide said there are text messages between the two camps showing that Crowley’s team reached out asking for Ocasio Cortez’s phone number, and that her team waited hours to respond.

Furthermore, the staffer says that Corbin Trent, a spokesman for Ocasio-Cortez's campaign, called Crowley’s team Thursday to admit the information she blasted out on twitter was “a mistake."

More https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/12/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-joe-crowley-twitter-feud-714983

[George II]

85. Welcome to DU. If you consider that an "insult", stick around for a while. You should see what....

....I've been called because of my screen name and my avatar.

[mcar]

97. Me too

[Progressive2020]

6. Danger Of Splitting The Vote

Does anyone know who the Republican running for this seat is?

Is there a danger that if Crowley runs on the Working Family line that the Liberal-Progressive vote will be split, and the Repub might benefit?

Anyone more familiar with that District than I am? I know that it is heavily Democratic, but I wonder how many Republicans are there.

We need Alexandria in the Congress.

[lapucelle]

38. Democrats outnumber Republicans 6:1 in the district.

Her opponent is Anthony Pappas, a 72 year old economics professor at St. John's University who has received $0 in donations so far.

[former9thward]

116. The Republican is not the issue.

Crowley could easily win the election on the WPP line. A tiny number voted in the primary and the general election will have far more people voting -- not just the activists who turned out in the primary. There will be many Democrats who vote for Crowley because he is the familiar name. Dead people routinely win elections in the U.S.

[lapucelle]

118. Dead people routinely win elections in the US?

Are there dead people running this year?

[former9thward]

120. Yes.

There will be people nominated and listed on the ballot. They die and it is too late to change the ballot. Some will win. It happens every election. And Crowley is not even dead.

[lapucelle]

121. The Democrats in the 14th will vote for the Democrat

they elected in the Democratic primary. They are not going to vote for a minor party candidate who isn't running. They are not going to accidentally vote for the wrong person.

AOC herself told The New Yorker:

"I smoked this race. I didn’t edge anybody out. I dominated. And I am going to own that.”

[former9thward]

122. What would you expect her to say?

The turnout was 11.8%. AOC got 16,000 votes. There were 198,000 votes cast in the last general election.

[George II]

123. Less than 4200 vote margin isn't "smoking".

[lapucelle]

134. I would expect the candidate to tell the truth.

And I'm sure she did. This wasn't a fluke. According to AOC, it was the voice of the people.

[George II]

124. The last time someone who died during a campaign was elected, as far as I know...

....was 16 years ago, Paul Wellstone.

[former9thward]

125. Most of the time you don't hear about it because the election is not high profile.

United States Senate election in Missouri, 2000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Missouri,_2000

Dead Man Wins City Election In California; Female Rival Calls Foul


https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/10/501593823/dead-man-wins-city-election-in-california-female-rival-calls-foul

4 Dead Politicians Who Still Got Elected

http://mentalfloss.com/article/26281/4-dead-politicians-who-still-got-elected


Five people have won election to Congress, despite being dead

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/10/01/five-people-have-won-election-to-congress-despite-being-dead/?utm_term=.600aecd9e2e0

Of course I am from Chicago where dead people happily do their duty and vote for many years while in their grave....

Investigators: Chicago Voters Cast Ballots From Beyond The Grave

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/10/27/2-investigators-chicago-voters-cast-ballots-from-beyond-the-grave/

[George II]

127. So now to bolster your position you're using the right-wing" argument:

"I am from Chicago where dead people happily do their duty and vote for many years while in their grave.."?

[former9thward]

129. Sorry to bring you to reality.

It is the Progressives in Chicago who have long tried for election reform. The Chicago machine does not try and crush right wingers, they use their tactics to crush progressive candidates. If you don't believe me then ask a guy who ran against the machine in 2000 and was smeared and crushed. Oh yeah, his name is Barack Obama. Ask him about their tactics and who they had vote.

[SunSeeker]

133. They obviously did not smear nor crush Obama, since he went on to be Senator.

Then 2-term president.

Sorry to bring you to reality.

[former9thward]

135. Sorry to bring you back to reality.

The Daley machine called him a "Harvard elitist" among a lot of other things and he was crushed in his attempt to become a Congressman. After that episode Obama went, hat in hand, to the fifth floor of City Hall to meet with Daley. He agreed to never again criticize the corruption of the Daley Chicago machine and in return Daley agreed to back him for Senator. Obama to this day kept his word and has never said another word about the machine after attacking its corruption in 2000. Daley also kept his word and backed him for Senator.

When Obama ran for president his main political strategist was David Axelrod, a long time Daley guy. When Obama was president his Chief of Staff were always a Daley machine guy like Bill Daley and then Rahm Emmanuel.

Everyone involved in Chicago politics knows the story, it is no secret. Why people outside of Chicago want to defend machine corruption which has always been used against progressives I don't know.

[SunSeeker]

136. No, you have the wrong take about that. Obama made rookie mistakes that he learned from.

He was a quick study. He applied what he learned and became quite successful.

[former9thward]

137. "rookie mistakes"

Is that what you call it when someone says a political machine is corrupt? I guess progressives in Chicago will just have to bow down and accept their fate so they wouldn't make those "rookie mistakes"...

[SunSeeker]

138. Politics is all about relationships.

Not all relationships are great, and you learn to work around those. Obama did, quite well.

[bucolic_frolic]

9. He's no worry

he can't get his voters to the polls, remember?

[still_one]

14. F**K THE NY TIMES. I will wait tell I hear from a reliable source. The NY TIMES is NO LONGER a

reliable source

This is what Crowley has said:


“Alexandria, the race is over and Democrats need to come together,” Crowley tweeted. “I’ve made my support for you clear and the fact that I’m not running. We’ve scheduled phone calls and your team has not followed through. I’d like to connect but I’m not willing to air grievances on Twitter.”

For those who swear by the times, I wouldn't just take their word for it. They lost a lot of credibility with their WMD bullshit, and it was only a short time ago they had a front page story blaming the Democrats and Obama for causing the republicans to deny climiate change

"The Republican Party’s fast journey from debating how to combat human-caused climate change to arguing that it does not exist is a story of big political money, Democratic hubris in the Obama years and a partisan chasm that grew over nine years like a crack in the Antarctic shelf, favoring extreme positions and uncompromising rhetoric over cooperation and conciliation."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/03/us/politics/republican-leaders-climate-change.html

So excuse me if I remain skeptical of the so-called "libural" NY Times. It hasn't been the paper it used to be for some time, and they have been pushing the false equivalency bullshit between the two parties I suspect because they think it presents them as objective, when in realitiy it distorts things.


I can show multiple examples where the NY Times has misrepresented and distorted the facts, so excuse me if I want to see a confirmation of this by Crowley, and not take the word of the NY Times who seems hell bent on trying to stir up shit

[Tarc]

19. The NYT is a reliable source. Crowley could fix this by working to remove his name from the ballot

He chose not to, and thus will appear on the ballot alongside the actual Democratic nominee. Whether he intends to run 3rd-party or not is largely irrelevant; it will appear that way to the voters, and has the potential to split the vote.

[still_one]

20. You think that HEADLINE from the NY Times is accurate. You can have your NY Times.

On October 31, 2016 the NY Times headlined the following story:

"Investigating Donald Trump, F.B.I. Sees No Clear Link to Russia"

"That New York Times article from Oct. 31, 2016, on the FBI investigation into the links between Russia and the Trump campaign won’t stop wiggling around in the newspaper’s archives. “Investigating Donald Trump, F.B.I. Sees No Clear Link to Russia,” reads the headline over a piece that addressed an ongoing probe that hadn’t yet “found any conclusive or direct link between Mr. Trump and the Russian government.” The story continues: “And even the hacking into Democratic emails, F.B.I. and intelligence officials now believe, was aimed at disrupting the presidential election rather than electing Mr. Trump.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/us/politics/fbi-russia-election-donald-trump.html?_r=0

The Times have been pushing the false equivalency bullshit between Democrats and republicans by NOT presenting the FULL context

They have a video by Mark Scheffle and Shane O'Neill from the NY Times telling us how both republicans and Democrats have flip-flopped on Comey. It is so out of context it is pathetic.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000005090191/comey-fired-democrats-republicans.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

They did the same thing when one of the Democrats on the FEC stepped down, building the false equivalency argument that how there is deadlock because both sides won't budge. That was NOT the case at all, and was a gross distortion again.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/19/us/politics/fec-elections-ann-ravel-campaign-finance.html

In fact that report was so messed up, that the Democrat who resign from the commission wrote a rebuttal to state the reality of the situation:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/20/opinion/dysfunction-and-deadlock-at-the-federal-election-commission.html

In fact I know the person who was on that committee, and it WASN'T the DEMOCRATS who weren't willing to compromise as the Times reported

In my previous post I presented the front page story where they blamed the Democrats and Obama for causing the republicans to reject climate change:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/03/us/politics/republican-leaders-climate-change.html

Best thing I did was over a year ago is cancel my subscription to the Times.

and yeah, the judy miller WMD bullshit still bothers me

[msongs]

22. nice to see a politician who knows to steer clear of the twitter cesspool nt

[Mc Mike]

16. Apparently, not. That would have been the end of the Working Families Party, for me.

But there is no schism here, like the times is claiming. The NYT should let the walkaway astroturfers retail this crap, themselves.

[scipan]

21. from the article:

As for the fact that his name will remain on the ballot in the November, Mr. Crowley wrote in a second Twitter post that there are “lots of questions about WFP line,” adding that he was “honored to have their support.” But, he added, “for record you can only be removed from the ballot if 1) you move out of NY; 2) die; 3) be convicted of a crime; 4) accept a nomination for another office (in a place I don’t live).”

There are no residency requirements, however, for some offices, and election lawyers say Mr. Crowley could put his name in nomination for any number of positions.

This is some kind of weird rule, in that the WFP apparently can't remove him themselves but asked him to run for something else so he could be removed per the rules, and Crowley refused. Which means that the Republican might win after dems' votes are split. Disgusting. I really want to know what the dem establishment thinks of this

[joshcryer]

23. I think Crowley just wants some damn respect.

They just want to dump him and relegate him to insignificance. I'm sure he'll do the right thing in the end.

Let this be AOC's first lesson about politics. Mutual respect is necessary. Lying about other people on your own team is not conductive.

[scipan]

32. I would hesitate to trust a politician to take himself out of running.

But I hope we can all agree that, since he lost, he needs to support AOC. Fully. And not be on the ballot running against her.

[joshcryer]

33. He has until September 19.

And I expect him to do nothing until that date looms and perhaps nothing past it if he doesn't get at least some mutual respect.

[scipan]

34. well, it would help if he called her and conceeded. n/t

[joshcryer]

35. He conceded the night of the election.

https://hillreporter.com/watch-joe-crowleys-awesome-concession-to-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-3139

He tried to call them three times but they never gave him the benefit of the doubt for a call.

[George II]

43. Right, he reached out but didn't connect, yet he's being slammed for not doing so!

[bettyellen]

79. It would help if she didn't make horrible accusations against a man on record as supporting her -

Especially since she used these tweets to fundraise. That makes a pretty bad gaffe 10X worse.

[scipan]

36. So what happens Sept 19?

[joshcryer]

37. Last day for ballot changes according to the calendar.

If he doesn't take up the WFP offer of running against another Democrat or if he doesn't chose to name VA his principle state of residency then his name is on the ballot.

[Jim Lane]

24. Yes, the nomination for another position is a well-established New York gimmick

It's been done many a time when a need arises to remove someone from the ticket after the primary.

Judgeships are a favorite. New York elects its lower-court judges. My guess is that the WFP could nominate Crowley for a judgeship (assuming that this minor party doesn't have a full slate of judicial candidates) and thus remove him from the Congressional ballot. He probably wouldn't win the judgeship, but even if he did, he could then gracefully decline or resign. Or, who knows, maybe he'd be happy to serve on the bench.

His tweet also notes the loophole for someone moving out of the district. That's often been used, too. Crowley already has a residence in the DC area, so he could just announce that that's now his principal residence. I'm not sure of all the details but I think that would work to get him off the Congressional ballot.

[joshcryer]

26. Announcing his principle residence as Alexandria would absolutely work.

He said he didn't "plan" to leave NY but there was a controversy by conservatives a few years back about how his primary residence was in Alexandria and how he barely ever went to his district. Whole Wikipedia edit controversy. He could probably "leave" NY with ease and it wouldn't affect his family one bit.

But it seems like he wants a bit of "take" for the "give" he gave on election night. He probably does want some other position there in NY and wants AOC to help him with it just by putting his name out there. But she's new to this and doesn't understand that's how it works.

[lapucelle]

39. Crowley may want to run for office in the future in New York.

The expectation that he change his residency or game the system by running in a random election somewhere else in NYS seems pretty entitled.

I don't think he should open himself up to potential public ridicule by running for a judgeship. He never went to law school and is not an attorney.

[George II]

42. Why should he change his residence simply to satisfy whim of someone else? He lives in Queens....

....and he intends to remain in Queens.

[lapucelle]

57. He grew up in Queens, went to Powers Memorial HS in the Bronx,

and is a graduate of CUNY Queens College. He was married in Queens, and his children were born there. Crowley served in the NYS Assembly for Queens 30th district for 12 years before becoming a congressman serving Queens and the Bronx. He has been the Queens County Democratic Party chairman since 2006.

I guess it's easy for some to blythefully suggest that he change his residency, but I wonder how many of us would resent attempts to strip us of our home and our identity.

[George II]

60. That last thought is eerily familiar.

I grew up right on the border between the 14th and 6th Districts in Queens. Who knows, with all the redistricting over the years I may have been in the 14th back then. Northern Queens is a middle-class family oriented neighborhood, and many children when they grow up stay in the neighborhood. We only started drifting away once we lost our parents.

One of my sisters and a brother graduated from Queens College (so did Jerry Seinfeld!).

[lapucelle]

66. I'm familiar with the campus.

The clock tower at the library is dedicated to the three civil rights workers who were murdered in Mississippi in 1964, one of whom was Andrew Goodman, a 21 year old Queens College student.

[lapucelle]

72. Apparently the source of the frequently debunked

concerns about Crowley's residency is a 2011 "exclusive" in Rupert Murdoch's right wing tabloid, The New York Post. It's little wonder that this rag is Donald Trump's favorite hometown "newspaper".

[Hortensis]

93. :) Even the RW NY Post thinks Ocasio is overdoing her attacks

and looking bad. They of course want people to vote against Democrats, not already be regretting losing Joe Crowley and casting protest votes. From Murdoch's editorial board:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez needs to learn to accept victory

If she wants a future in politics, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez needs to learn to accept victory and move on.

She won national fame by defeating Rep. Joe Crowley, the No. 4 House Democrat and undisputed boss of the Queens party, in last month’s Democratic primary.

But on Thursday she couldn’t resist going after him again. ...

If Ocasio-Cortez keeps this up, she’s merely adding to the protest vote that Crowley will receive come Nov. 6.

https://nypost.com/2018/07/13/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-needs-to-learn-to-accept-victory/

[lapucelle]

94. The NYP used their reliable "Red Alert" headline the day after AOC won

and labelled her a "socialist" (without the word Democratic) on their front page. They are expert fear mongerers.

[Hortensis]

96. Agitprop for right and left, stirring the pot...

Being a voter targeted by RW provocateurs is a big sign that person has gotten onto a useful idiot list.

[lapucelle]

98. I live the next county over

and hope to attend an AOC event as soon as one is scheduled.

In the meantime, we're busy registering new voters and working with our own fine LI Democratic congressional challengers to unseat incumbant Republicans Peter King and Lee Zeldin.

[Hortensis]

101. Oh, best of luck on unseating those two.

As for AOC, I'd be there too. She's the Democratic nominee, after all.

Being tossed in this deep can apparently be somewhat like being dropped on your head. I like to imagine she will calm down, look around -- and see the enormous threat on the right. I've been waiting to hear her wade in on behalf of the kidnapped refugee children in NYC.

[lapucelle]

104. I'm sure she'll be listening to local voices as well as to Corbin Trent,

a current spokesman for her campaign. Hopefully he'll change his view of the Democratic party now that one of his candidates has won the Democratic nomination.

Theo: What is your relationship to the Democratic Party?

Corbin: Myself, personally? I have no relationship whatsoever. The organization has very little. We intend to run within their structures, and in their primaries, and we’re thankful that they’ve set up an infrastructure that’s going to allow candidates to run in primaries. But we think that the party has—a long time ago—stopped representing the needs of the American people.

http://inthesetimes.com/article/20341/brand-new-congress-progressives-republican-party-democrat

[Hortensis]

107. Good heavens. :) Thanks for the chuckle.

Well, he'll hardly be the first zealot too carried away by righteous conceits to be corrupted by reality, much less by distinctions of right and wrong.

That people so virtuous that they spent 2017 calling for repeal of the ACA right along with the Republicans, and 2018 trying to defeat Democrats along with the Republicans, might develop a new view of Democrats, much less of themselves, doesn't seem likely. But who knows? Maybe a chance at the big leagues will seduce at least one mind open enough to allow more light in. It happens.

[Jim Lane]

44. Gaming the system in these ways carries no opprobrium

It really is done quite often.

Crowley could change his legal residence to his place in Virginia, finish out his Congressional term, and then, upon leaving Congress, change his residence back to New York. If he does want to run for something else, his action would be a plus, not a minus. He would have made it possible for the WFP to remove him from the ballot (the WFP would then substitute Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez). By this action, Crowley would have shown himself to be a loyal team player, helping the Democratic nominee win the election.

The absolute worst thing for Crowley's career is an unlikely but at least possible result: Even though he doesn't campaign, his high name recognition, coupled with lingering bitterness among his primary supporters, means that he pulls a significant number of votes on the WFP line, with the result that the Republican candidate sneaks in with a plurality. If that were to happen, Crowley would, fairly or unfairly, be blamed, and it would be a big problem for him if he wanted to wanted to run for office in the future.

[lapucelle]

50. It's stunning that anyone would propse

that the Crowley change his state residency especially while he is a serving Congressman from NY or run in another election as a sham candidate,

Joe Crowley immediately endorsed the Democratic candidate and issued this statement via his spokesman and a followup via twitter after others started slinging mud at him.

"Joe Crowley is a Democrat. He’s made clear he is not running for Congress and supports the Democratic nominee in NY-14.”

"Alexandria, the race is over and Democrats need to come together. I’ve made my support for you clear and the fact that I’m not running."

[Jim Lane]

52. There's nothing stunning about admitting that he no longer lives in the district.

One of Ocasio-Cortez's campaign themes was that Crowley was out of touch with the district. He maintains a legal residence there but his actual residence, where his family resides and where his children go to school, is in Virginia.

His acknowledging Virginia as his legal residence would not prevent him from finishing his current term in Congress. It would also not prevent him from later switching his residence back to New York if he wants to run for something there. (It wouldn't surprise me if his actual career path were to get a lucrative position with a DC lobbying firm, so maybe he'd just give up the New York living space entirely, but he wouldn't have to if he didn't want to.)

[lapucelle]

56. If she campaigned on the idea that he lost touch with the districr

and won the primary, then i’m not sure why there is any worry about the GE. Crowley had greater name recognition in the June election, yet he lost. He’s endorsed her and seems like he’s ready to move on. I’m not sure why people are seeing problems where there aren’t any.

[Jim Lane]

61. As I said, she'll likely win even if he's splitting the vote.

Nevertheless, that's no reason to be complacent.

Ocasio-Cortez had a lot of volunteers and countered Crowley's spending advantage with a strong GOTV operation. In the general election, when the less motivated voters are more likely to show up, he would probably do somewhat better.

The concern is the splitting of the vote. Ocasio-Cortez can't win the seat just by again outpolling Crowley. If Crowley on the WFP line were to pull a significant percentage of the people who normally vote Democratic, then Ocasio-Cortez could beat him and yet still finish behind the Republican (e.g. Republican 39%, Ocasio-Cortez 38%, Crowley 21%, miscellaneous others 2%). If I had to bet on the election, I'd bet that that would NOT happen, but then, I would've bet that Trump wouldn't be nominated, let alone elected.

[George II]

87. The fact is he DOES live in the district. It's an insult that anyone would claim he doesn't.

[Jim Lane]

90. Maybe you're insulting him by claiming he's abandoned his children, who live in Virginia.

Look, all this talk about insults -- your subject line and mine -- is just silly. The fact is that Crowley, like many members of Congress, maintains two places of abode. He has considerable latitude in deciding which one will be designated as his legal residence. For him to change that designation for a short period is just not that big a deal.

In an alternate universe, a former Bernie Sanders organizer launched a primary challenge to a member of the Democratic Party leadership. The former Sanders organizer lost the Democratic primary but appeared on the November ballot anyway, as an opponent of the Democratic nominee, even though she could have readily taken steps to remove her name.

The alternate universe has an alternate DU. I happen to live near a dimensional warp, so I can read alt-DU. That board is just filled with vitriolic denunciations of the progressive candidate who lost the Democratic primary but who is now splitting the vote. The people who have been harshest in their criticisms of alternate Bernie Sanders are leading the charge.

My personal opinion is that a candidate who loses the Democratic primary should not run against the Democratic nominee in the general election. If the unsuccessful candidate finds himself or herself on another party's ballot line, in opposition to the Democratic nominee, then he or she should make every effort to correct the situation.

And I hold that opinion whether the primary loser was the candidate I supported or the one I opposed.

[George II]

103. Thankfully I live in the real world.

[R B Garr]

115. Bernie has a house in the Washington area. Do you claim he

abandoned his family because he splits time in his house in Vermont and his house in Washington??

[Jim Lane]

119. Of course not, and no one who read my post fairly could think so. (n/t)

[R B Garr]

131. Your post had only one real fact to it by your own admission.

Lots of politicians have two residences, one in the DC area and one in their home state/district.

Demanding that politicians move from their childhood home or lie about it is pure fantasy, much like your own admitted fabrications of Sanders' victimization.
"In an alternate universe..."
"In that alternate universe..."

[OilemFirchen]

25. More's the pity that Ocasio-Cortez swallowed, then regurgitated, this rat-fucking "scandal".

That said, how did Crowley win the WFP ticket in the first place? Did they endorse him? Why did NARAL endorse him? Why did Planned Parenthood endorse him? The NY AFL-CIO? Wouldn't it behoove her to take all this into consideration in lieu of rapid reactionary responses?

Here's hoping she ceases the internecine shit. It does no one, save her Republican rival, any good whatsoever.

[joshcryer]

27. She created this "scandal." Ironically, she could easily sue to have him off the ballot.

Simply by using the right wing talking point spreading on Twitter that Crowley never really lived at his Woodside home and that instead he's been in Virginia all these years and that his principle residence isn't in NY. It would not be hard at all. But that's why this is all bluster because she probably won't be stupid enough to do that and Crowley is the mature one here and will talk to her about what he wants.

Odds are he either gets some low level nomination for a position there in NY or moves to Virginia to be with his family and be a nicely paid lobbyist.

[still_one]

28. That is what it sounds like to me, and the media is only too willing to accomodate and distort this

bullshit with the headline from the NY Times saying that Crowley is mounting a third party run against her, which is a LIE.

[OilemFirchen]

29. Perhaps.

But I see no need for him to go to any effort to mollify her. He's made his position clear, and the best thing for her would be to simply drop it.

I think she'll do fine. Perhaps she doesn't. Is she worried about the hordes of WFP voters upending her coronation?

[joshcryer]

30. Exactly. We know he'll get at most 1% of the votes or something like that.

But she can't allow that. Because he has to be made irrelevant. Disappeared. Relegated to nothingness. Because if he is allowed to stay around, he could run again in 2 years and take his seat back. Or because they just have no respect for someone who devoted 20 years of their life to the party.

I don't see a need for him to do anything without mutual respect being granted. It probably would not be hard at all for him to have himself removed from the ballot. But she has to reach out somehow.

[OilemFirchen]

31. It's unseemly, too.

The OR candidate lost the WFP votes to the corporate DINO oligarch?!?

This cannot stand!

[R B Garr]

132. Exactly. And now we see she is campaigning against incumbent

Democrats in other states, which makes her concern over having competition rather specious.

[George II]

40. She knew BEFORE the Primary that he was going to be the WFP candidate. Maybe before she....

.....starts another intra-Democratic brouhaha she might want to learn a little something about election laws and how those on the ballot are determined.

[Jim Lane]

45. So what was she supposed to do?

I guess she could have avoided the "brouhaha" by allowing a minor party's decision to thwart her candidacy for the Democratic nomination. Instead, she afforded a choice to the registered Democrats in the district (New York has closed primaries). Having become the Democratic nominee, she is now rightly concerned about the possibility that a minor-party candidate on the ballot might split the vote. Search DU for "Jill Stein" if you want to read more (lots and lots more) about how bad that is.

[George II]

46. What is she supposed to do? Nothing. And that includes NOT complaining about something....

....built into election law, acting like it's Crowley's fault.

[Jim Lane]

47. It is NOT built into the election law that Crowley MUST stay on the ballot against the Democrat.

The election law creates obstacles but not insuperable ones.

Suppose the situation were reversed: Ocasio-Cortez won the WFP nomination but Crowley won the Democratic primary. You know perfectly well that DU would have multiple threads demanding that Ocasio-Cortez somehow get her name off the November ballot. Jill Stein would be mentioned. Repeatedly.

It will be easier for Crowley to clear her path because he already has a residence out of the district. In fact, there's a good case to be made that, legal designation of principal residence aside, he actually lives in Virginia, not in New York. If the situation were reversed, Ocasio-Cortez wouldn't have that easy option, but that wouldn't stop people from demanding that she do something.

[George II]

49. So you're calling for him to change his legal residence and, along with it, his voter registration?

[Jim Lane]

51. Precisely. He would change his legal residence to match his actual residence.

Am I asking him to move? No. He could make this change without wrapping a single dinner plate in newsprint. He spends most of his time at his place in Virginia, and that's where his children go to school.

One quick side trip to the local board of elections in Virginia, fill in a form, and boom, it's done. He notifies the WFP and he's immediately removed from the general-election ballot.

[lapucelle]

59. It seems that for some, stripping a person of their home and identity

for apocryphal political expedience is inconsequential.

[Jim Lane]

63. Cool the hyperbole. His actual home is in Virginia.

I don't see how his "identity" is being stripped. Presumably, a key part of his political identity is that he's a Democrat. He would reregister so as to help the Democratic nominee.

[lapucelle]

69. ...

[George II]

71. BS. He grew up in Queens, he went to school in Queens (HS in the Bronx), college in Queens, and....

....and has been Chairman of the Queens Democratic Party for the last 12 years.

He's been a New Yorker since the day he was born, for some to proclaim that he should change his residence for any reason is patently unfair.

[lapucelle]

74. Apparently, some people put more faith in a debunked

2011 "exclusive" in Rupert Murdoch's right wing rag The New York Post than in the actual facts. It seems mighty entitled to demand that someone who has spent his entire life living in Queens, NY establish legal residency in another state to accommodate baseless and insulting fears.

I would have hoped that everyone has a right to their identity, their history, and their home.

[George II]

75. If that story were "true", then probably about 95% of all Representatives and Senators....

....are living outside their districts.

Probably the only who don't are those from Maryland, Virginia, and DC.

[Jim Lane]

84. If you have a purported debunking, please share.

Without citing any Murdoch rag, I showed that Crowley's family resides in Virginia and his children go to school there. I have never heard those facts contested by any reliable source.

Many Senators and Representatives have crash pads in the DC area but their families live back in the district. Crowley doesn't do it that way.

Anyway, I'm in no position to "demand" anything. I'm simply pointing out undeniable facts, facts that under other circumstances would be eliciting shrieks of rage on DU: Crowley lost the Democratic primary; he will nevertheless appear on the general-election ballot as the candidate of another party, running against the Democratic nominee; it's a certainty that this will split the Democratic vote (Jill Stein! Jill Stein! Jill Stein!); the split in the Democratic vote increases the danger that the Republican will grab the seat; the district is blue enough that the Democratic nominee can probably win despite having Crowley on the ballot against her, but it's not certain (Hillary Clinton probably thought that she could win Wisconsin despite having Stein on the ballot against her); Crowley could remove this entire problem with a few minutes' work, by registering to vote where he spends most of his time and where his family is, and then switching back after the ballots are finalized; and, far from this impairing his career, everybody would understand that he wasn't renouncing Queens, but rather was helping make sure Queens continued to have a Democrat representing it in Congress.

If he chooses to stay on the ballot against the Democratic nominee, no one can force him out -- but if he ever does run for any other office in New York, a lot of people will remember his decision.

[lapucelle]

92. If Crowley runs for office again, New Yorkers like me will remember the work he has done.

Back in 2011, Crowley directly addressed the GOP-created "controversy" floated as an "exclusive" in Donald Trump's favorite hometown right wing rag, Rupert Murdoch's New York Post.

https://www.wnyc.org/story/145477-blog-crowley-denies-primary-residence-not-queens/
https://www.timesledger.com/stories/2011/29/at_crowley_residency_20110714.html

Some representatives live in bolt holes while Congress is in session; others live in homes with their spouses and children. Similarly, some without children have nice apartments in the DC area, a house in their home state, and a third place near the beach or in the mountains for relaxing vacations. (Even AOC's parents owned two homes throughout most of her childhood and young adulthood, a house in Westchester where she grew up and went to school and a condo in Parkchester where she now lives.)

I'm not sure why anyone on DU would trot out seven year old right wing talking points in an attempt to tar a sitting Democratic congressman and bully him into bending to their will. Insisting that a lifelong New Yorker change his residency to assuage baseless fears is entitlement at its worst.

I'll say it again: any attempt to strip any person of their home, their history, or their identity is disgusting. Doing it based on a failed right wing narrative makes it even worse.

[Jim Lane]

95. So the "right wing talking point" is true.

Rupert Murdoch does not possess reverse infallibility. As you say, Members of Congress take different approaches to the problem of living space. Those who are any distance from DC have at least two dwellings; the one in the DC area may be a bolt hole (good description) or a real residence where the family lives. Crowley is one of those whose family stays in the DC area.

That's a perfectly understandable choice. Contrary to your post, I'm not using the fact to "tar" him. I'm saying only that he has created facts on the ground that affect the current situation.

You and others keep referring to this in terms like "attempt to strip any person of their home" -- as if an armed posse of BernieBros were showing up at the Crowley family manse in Queens and evicting him. Crowley can keep whatever dwelling place he currently uses in New York. This is a temporary change in the designation of his legal residence, as between the two dwelling places he already has.

In a just world, the same situation would recur in another Congressional district, only with the Sanders organizer losing the Democratic primary but remaining on the November ballot on a third-party line. Comparing the DU reactions would be highly amusing. Because the world is seldom that fair, however, I don't expect that to happen.

And with that, I'm done. You and others have used such misleading rhetoric (strip him of his home, indeed) that I conclude there is no point in pursuing the subject further.

[lapucelle]

99. No, the right wing, anti-Democratic Party talking point is not true.

I'm not sure why anyone here is defending it.

[Gothmog]

102. Asking Crowley to move is a true sign of weakness on the part of AOC

AOC is self destructing before our eyes and it is sad. If she gets elected and she may blow it, she will be getting some amusing committee assignments

I am so happy to supporting the two Texas Latinas who will be elected to congress and who will be playing a major role Sen. Garcia is a good lady and will be a great member of Congress

Link to tweet

[KitSileya]

91. It seems Ocasio-Cortez is a fan of double standards.

When she is nominated by a third party, it's cute, when Crowley is, it's a sign of how power-hungry he is. When she is questioned about her residence and origins, they are trying to strip her of her home and identity, but she has no problems demanding Crowley cheating his residence if it gets him off the ballot.

These last few days have shown a side to AOC I do not like. It is very typical of one segment of the political left, all double standards and hypocrisy. It's like how the first woman nominee of a major party is being the status quo establishment, but being a white man in Congress for 25 years was ground-breaking and new.

[lapucelle]

100. Some are even asserting that it's "hyperbolic" to characterize demands

that people change their legal residency and voter registration to another state as an attempt to strip someone of their home and their identity.

It's almost Orwellian: "All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others".

[Jim Lane]

105. That is just a flat-out lie.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: nominated by a third party to run against a Democrat; chuckles at the unexpected compliment and then sees to it that her name will not be on the general-election ballot as an opponent to the Democrat.

Joseph Crowley: nominated by a third party to run against a Democrat; dismisses all concerns about vote-splitting and takes no steps whatsoever to get his name off the general-election ballot so as to clear the way for the Democratic nominee.

I know I resolved to leave this thread alone but your assertion is just so monumentally stupid that my resolve weakened.

From now on, though, I'll probably succeed, because it's hard to imagine anyone posting a more meritless attack. (Anti-AOC contingent, in unison: "Hold my beer." )

[KitSileya]

106. She had a ready-made way to get out of the second nomination.

SHe's already accepted the nomination she ran for. However, she wants Crowley to cheat (and possibly break the law) because a third party nominated him. In other words, she is not behaving very honorably - or very ethically. Crowley, on the other hand, refuses to cheat, break the law, run against a genuine Democrat for a nomination he has no intention to accept. He has integrity - and he has stated quite clearly that he supports AOC, that he will campaign for her, that he wants his supporters to vote for her. What he will not do is break his principles and behave unethically (and possibly illegally) for her.

[Tarc]

48. "Maybe before she starts"

This is on him, not her.

[recentevents]

62. Thank you

SHE is the Democratic nominee. Simply stating he is supporting her isn't enough. He needs to take steps to support her. And that means making sure he "connects" the phone calls, and gets his name off the ballot.

[riversedge]

76. At this point, he can not remove his name................

..............It did not take long for Mr. Crowley to respond. In the first of three Twitter posts, he wrote, “Alexandria, the race is over and Democrats need to come together. I’ve made my support for you clear and the fact that I’m not running. We’ve scheduled phone calls and your team has not followed through.”

As for the fact that his name will remain on the ballot in the November, Mr. Crowley wrote in a second Twitter post that there are “lots of questions about WFP line,” adding that he was “honored to have their support.” But, he added, “for record you can only be removed from the ballot if 1) you move out of NY; 2) die; 3) be convicted of a crime; 4) accept a nomination for another office (in a place I don’t live).”

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[Cha]

70. AOC is the one who Accused Joe Crowley of "mounting"

a 3rd party campaign.. that's on her.

Link to tweet

[Tarc]

88. If he does not take steps to remove his name, then he effectively is mounting one

The ball is in his court.

[Cha]

89. OAC was Wrong to accuse him on Twitter.. her campaign admitted the "mistake"..

She would show some class if she gave Joe Crowley a public mea culpa on Twitter.

And, she's Wrong about this move, too..

Ocasio-Cortez to campaign against Democrat Congressman William Clay in St. Louis

Clay is a progressive incumbent.. And he's a highly respected member of the Congressional Black Caucus.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210867566#top

[yodermon]

82. Will Crowley and AOC both be on the Nov General ballot

at the same time, or not?

If so, it's a problem, no?

[Jim Lane]

86. As of now, yes, they will.

Is it a problem? I'd say it's a potential problem. We hear soothing assurances that the Democrat will still win even with the incumbent Democrat appearing on the ballot against her and thereby splitting the vote. Those assurances may well turn out to be true, but at this point no one can know for sure. It would be better to prevent the problem from arising.

[DonCoquixote]

126. it is funny to see

People defend Crowley for doign something that in the very rules of DU would get you in trouble.

BTW, Charlie Crist running as third party helped put Marco Rubio in office, much to the detriment of my state, so I know how this movie ends!

And it so funny seeing the people who are still fighting old battles take any chance they can to crush AOC.

[emulatorloo]

130. Except he's not actually running third party. No rallys. No Ads. No Phone Banking. He endorsed AOC

immediately after losing the primary.

Y’all should stop flogging this dead horse. Time for us to get behind AOC in her GE campaign against the Republican in whatever was we can. I am going to send her a couple bucks after payday.