Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of 'Stand Your Ground' law

[jpak]

Source: ABC News

A man who was captured on surveillance video fatally shooting another man in Clearwater, Florida, during a parking-spot spat as his young son watched nearby will not be arrested or charged by police, according to Pinellas County Sheriff.

"I don't make the law. I enforce the law," Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri said during a news conference today. "The law in the state of Florida today is that people have a right to stand their ground and have a right to defend themselves when they believe that they are in harm."

The sheriff announced the case will be sent to the state attorney's office for review.

"This will go to the state attorney. Drejka will not be charged [and] will not be arrested by us," Sheriff Gualtieri said. "The state attorney will review it and either he’ll concur or not. And, if he concurs, then there’ll be no charge. Period. If he doesn’t concur, then he’ll make a determination as to what to do with it. And, if he feels like he can overcome that heavy burden at a Stand Your Ground hearing of proving by clear and convincing evidence that Drejka was not entitled to use force in this circumstance, then that’s the state attorney’s determination to make."

<more>

Read more: https://abcnews.go.com/US/gunman-parking-space-shooting-charged-stand-ground-law/story?id=56715356

[NurseJackie]

1. Absolute insanity.

[marble falls]

30. Its the same warped logic that a cop is always innocent of a crime if he shoots an unarmed ...

citizen: fear (real or imagined) of a weapon or an attack (real or imagined). Both laws need to be replaced.

[NurseJackie]

32. I totally agree with you. This is senseless. It's heartbreaking. Over WHAT? NOTHING!! That's what!

I totally agree with you. This is senseless. It's heartbreaking. Over WHAT? NOTHING!! That's what!

Seriously, it was a goddamned parking spot! Someone's son, someone's husband, father isn't coming home tonight because of some hothead with a gun was "standing his ground"... like it's some WWII siege, or the Wild West. This law breeds and excuses total anarchy. It must be repealed.

[marble falls]

36. Its boys and toys. Give him a truck and he'll race it, give him a gun and somebody is getting shot.

Its why cops do not need or should get military equipment.

And there should be no conceal carry. Period. Most killings are over nothing. Nothing that anyone needed to kill or be killed over. The victim is black, by the way, and the killer is white.



From http://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2018/07/20/argument-over-clearwater-parking-space-leads-to-fatal-shooting :

"This guy -- he did this before."

Ali Salous, the owner of the Circle A convenience store, told us Drejka has caused problems at his store before.

"This guy -- he did this before," Salous said. "He always hangs out in the parking lot and if he sees someone parking, he just wants to start trouble with people."

Gualtieri, however, maintained that Drejka's history didn't matter when it comes to making an arrest. All that matters, according to the sheriff, are the facts of this brief confrontation caught on tape.

[hlthe2b]

2. Until some bigshot politico or $$ wealthy as hell ends up as victim, this won't change.

[AlexSFCA]

3. the purge movie can totally become reality

people who collect guns, open carry, etc. dream of one day using them.

[WhiteTara]

4. Who knew defending your parking place is

the same thing as not running from someone who is going to kill you?

[sandensea]

5. Republicans love this b/c they believe it'll empower them to shoot minorities at will.

When they realize it'll also prompt white guys to shoot each other, and even each other's family memebers, then, and only then, they might regret Stand Yer Ground.

But of course it'll be too late.

[Trust Buster]

6. Florida should change the name of the law to "The Provoking Cowards Law"

[NutmegYankee]

7. The article makes a mistake citing duty to retreat from home.

Previous Common Law for the past several Centuries makes ones home a place of refuge for which there is no duty to retreat.

[Joe Chi Minh]

42. Parking and road-rage incidents will

end up in gunfights : Who's quickest on the draw ?

[NutmegYankee]

43. I think duty to retreat should remain in public places.

I was just commenting on a factual error in the article.

[Joe Chi Minh]

45. Yes. I suspect that was the impression everyone had. The home seems

to have been the normal context of previous reported incidents.

I was just commenting on the farcical result that could occur, if that law were to continue to be interpreted in such a loose way.

[edbermac]

8. Hope the SA pursues this.

[bluestarone]

9. Unfucking believable!!!!!!!!!!!

The rules are let's ALL wear guns and only the strong survive!!!!!

[RhodeIslandOne]

10. The George Zimmerman Law: Make sure you kill them

Then they can't tell their side of the story.

[Solly Mack]

11. :(

Sick, sick people.

[gordianot]

12. Another reason to avoid Florida.

Like I have needed any since being robbed in Florida 35 years ago.

[keithbvadu2]

13. Anyone who knows him now has 'SYG' justification for fear of their life.

Anyone who knows him now has 'SYG' justification for fear of their life.

[jO456]

15. Open carry and stand your ground

If you feel threatened by someone open carrying, are you able to stand your ground and shoot them?

[ManiacJoe]

56. No, because

according to the courts, open carry is not a reasonable grounds for fear.

Reasonable = Ability, Opportunity, and Jeopardy

[BumRushDaShow]

23. That cartoon wouldn't work

assuming that shooter in it was black. The cop wouldn't have said "Makes sense to me". The cop would have shot the black guy because he had a gun. Period. And that's because they shoot black men who have no weapons at all.

SYG only applies to whites. See the Marissa Alexander case.

And in the OP case, the victim of SYG was black (naturally) -



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5976247/Florida-shooting-handicapped-spot-argument-self-defense-cops-say.html

[exboyfil]

27. Another case is Trevor Dooley

Which appears to have dropped down the black hole after his appeal granted a new trial. In the Dooley case he was tackled and wrestled to the ground after he flashed his gun and started walking away. During the struggle he shot the man who was younger, larger, and much fitter. He was convicted of manslaughter.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/civil/trevor-dooley-sentenced-to-8-years-for-manslaughter/1270967

[BumRushDaShow]

34. Dredd Scott v. Sanford

<...>

4. A free negro of the African race, whose ancestors were brought to this country and sold as slaves, is not a "citizen" within the meaning of the Constitution of the United States.

5. When the Constitution was adopted, they were not regarded in any of the States as members of the community which constituted the State, and were not numbered among its "people or citizens." Consequently, the special rights and immunities guarantied to citizens do not apply to them. And not being "citizens" within the meaning of the Constitution, they are not entitled to sue in that character in a court of the United States, and the Circuit Court has not jurisdiction in such a suit.

6. The only two clauses in the Constitution which point to this race treat them as persons whom it was morally lawfully to deal in as articles of property and to hold as slaves.

7. Since the adoption of the Constitution of the United States, no State can by any subsequent law make a foreigner or any other description of persons citizens of the United States, nor entitle them to the rights and privileges secured to citizens by that instrument.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/60/393

[keithbvadu2]

37. They could have included a date, considering the plethora of verbiage.

They could have included a date, considering the plethora of verbiage.

The latest date noted was 1855, a reference.

(It was 1857)

[BumRushDaShow]

40. Cornell Law posted the text of the actual case

This was pre-Civil War and was (purportedly) overturned by the 13th & 14th Amendments. However what has happened is that corporations have suddenly become "people" and those entities are now utilizing those (and the rest of the) Amendments, essentially displacing the very people who those Amendments were supposed to protect.

And thus the de facto refusal to acknowledge that the "Rules" apply to all and not just whites or "corporations", POC suffer the fate of that Dred Scott case where they are not considered "citizens" to which the laws (of redress) apply.





Put some round glasses on Taney and he could almost be Turtle!

?w=400

[Oneironaut]

14. It's always these assholes who think that they're cops. They walk up and start the altercation.

Then, they end up shooting someone. This isn't right. I know it's a grey area, but the law allows for too many cases like this, where there wouldn't be a problem if the shooter didn't start it in the first place. He wanted to play police officer, and felt like he could start the altercation because he was armed.

He's a cool action hero with a gun. He did what he always dreamed of doing, just like all gun vigilantes. They day dream of the day they can finally shoot someone. It's a gun nut fantasy that is sold by the NRA.

[Judi Lynn]

16. Sheriff Bob Gualtieri should've looked at local records on the sitting "Stand Your Ground" murderer.

Sheriff Bob Gualtieri


Article from ABC News:

Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of 'Stand Your Ground' law
By ENJOLI FRANCIS Jul 20, 2018, 5:34 PM ET

. . .

Records show Drejka does not have a criminal history in Florida, although the Sheriff’s Office had prior contact with him in 2012 when a driver accused him of pulling a gun during a road rage incident. Drejka denied he showed the gun, and the accuser declined to press charges.

. . .

At the convenience store Friday, customers filed in and out, buying cigarettes, lottery tickets and sodas, many of them familiar with details of the shooting. Mustafa Hashen, a clerk and witness, said both men were regulars.

It wasn’t the first time he saw Drejka in a fight with another customer. A couple of months back, Rick Kelly stopped by the store, parking his tanker truck in the same handicap spot.

The details to Thursday’s incident are similar: Drejka walking around the truck checking for decals, then confronting Kelly, 31, about why he parked there. The fight escalated, and Drejka threatened to shoot him, Kelly said.

"It’s a repeat. It happened to me the first time. The second time it’s happening, someone’s life got taken," Kelly said. "He provoked that."

. . .

https://abcnews.go.com/US/gunman-parking-space-shooting-charged-stand-ground-law/story?id=56715356

[peekaloo]

24. Self appointed handicapped parking spot vigilante.

I saw local coverage of Gualtieri basically blaming the victim for "slamming" the shooter to the ground as being the premise for SYG. Incredible. The victim was trying to protect his family and forcibly pushed, not slammed, the coward away from their car.

Unlike Fat George, this one is on tape and I'd like to believe the SA will bring charges against the shooter. Watered down, probably, but this asshole is a menace as your story attests.

[Judi Lynn]

49. I think the girlfriend in the car could have shot the creep, claiming SHE was afraid for her life.

He had clearly come after her and was shouting and intimidating her and he was carrying a gun.

The killer was in no danger, simply sitting on his giant butt on the ground, killing the man who tried to protect his girlfriend by shoving the aggressor away.

If only there will be charges, and a reprimand to the slow-witted, racist sheriff, at least, for refusing to do the right thing in the first place.

[kairos12]

17. Person becomes Judge, Jury, and Executioner.

[Judi Lynn]

18. Probably true for everyone except someone who is a member of a minority group. Sad. n/t

[Devil Child]

21. Even more so in Florida

Where shooters stand their ground against pop-corn throwers and black teens walking their own neighborhoods.

[Devil Child]

20. Cowardly retreat from a clear homicide

If there is any sanity left in Florida, the State Attorney must disregard the Pinellas County Sheriff's stance and move to prosecute.

[raccoon]

22. Sounds like this asshole is a ticking time bomb.

Sounds like this asshole is a ticking time bomb.And I doubt this will be the last time he’s involved in such an incident. I hope that they will prosecute.

[ck4829]

25. Horrifying

[True Dough]

26. Once the armed individual pulls the gun

the man who pushed him no longer shows any aggression. If the other man lunged at him or cocked his arm to throw a punch at him, I could see him being justified in pulling the trigger.

But that wasn't the case. The man with the gun is a murderer, IMO.

[exboyfil]

29. I think he will ultimately be charged

because the video clearly shows the man retreating when shown the gun.

Which brings up an interesting point about CCW training. I have heard that the guidance is to never display the gun unless you intend to shoot the other person. Does the training account for the other party showing a willingness to retreat especially when they are not even holding a weapon?

If you let this go, then any case of battery even after disengaging is a license to shot the other party. What about his threatening language and gestures towards the woman and her children? Would she be justified in shooting him first?

[True Dough]

33. The good thing is we have incontrovertible video

unlike in the Zimmerman case.

As for you question about whether the woman parked in a handicap spot would have been justified in shooting him first, because he didn't make any physical contact or even come toward her, I would think she'd be in a heap of trouble if she'd shot him.

[joshcryer]

41. There's no way a FL jury convicts him.

Stand your ground is extremely broad and subjective. They literally allow you to kill anyone if you're in fear of your life (similar to the protection cops have). There's a reason the sheriff is disturbed by this act. He knows that it means that eventually people are going to use this against cops.

[NutmegYankee]

44. Police are usually specifically protected from a stand your ground usage.

Any person shooting a cop carrying out his lawful duties would face capital murder.

[joshcryer]

46. Indiana allows it.

And I can imagine it being successfully used against an undercover cop. Recordings make it easier, too. Like this guys case is a perfect example of legalized murder. If someone hits you and you don't hesitate to kill them you're good to go. It's sickening.

[Lib4lif3]

48. Agreed

They stress NEVER pull your weapon unless you feel the need to use it.

[Hoyt]

35. There is that and I'm not convinced the guy standing is going to kick or otherwise hurt the guy

on the ground. But clearly, once he pulls the gun, it's over and the shooter more or less shot him while retreating.

Well -- as far as guns -- Russia has it over us in that toting is all but banned unless you want to try for a permit for a pellet gun.

[joshcryer]

47. Russians carry around Osa, basically a flare gun.

It shoots rubber bullets and pops like a flash bang: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osa_(handgun)

[marble falls]

28. Stand your ground is legalized murder. And there's been examples of people ...

setting up stand your own ground situations specifically to murder their neighbors.

Raul Rodriguez, Texas man, gets 40 years in prison for fatally shooting neighbor after claiming 'stand your ground' defense

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/raul-rodriguez-texas-man-gets-40-years-in-prison-for-fatally-shooting-neighbor-after-claiming-stand-your-ground-defense/

In Clearwater, what if the victim had stood his ground first? This law is screwed up when its written so that the victim is always "guilty" and the murderer is always the 'victim'.

[marble falls]

31. So now Florida has two George Zimmermans wandering around. That we KNOW of.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

38. Trayvon M was "standing his ground" too - against an anonymous threatening jerk with a gun. So

what exactly does the law say about who is justified in "standing their ground" and who isn't?????

It seems like the person with the gun is the one who has the authority to "stand his ground," and the one without by definition does not.

Of course then there can be.... and actually have been.... incidents where 2 people are "standing their ground" and shooting each other. Poetic justice, that.....

[kimbutgar]

39. Until these laws are overturned I will never set foot in florida

Refuse to even go on a cruise ship from there. These stand your ground re dangerous states. When I go to Arizona to visit in laws I mostly stay inside and when I go to a store I keep my inactions with others limited. Years ago one crazy nephew there touched his gun which he kept in his holster when I challenged him in a political discussion. I haven’t seen him since. He’s nervous around me because of what he did. I knew him as a small child when I married into the family. He was one of my favorites but now he’s a right wing twitler loving gun humper.

[ManiacJoe]

50. The cops need some retraining.

Before one can claim "stand your ground", the lethal force first needs to be a legal self defense.
From the video, this shooting does not appear to be a legal self defense.

[Sneederbunk]

51. Different outcome if shooter black and assailant white.

[muntrv]

52. Stand your ground against Drejka.

[KCDebbie]

53. The stupidity of Flori-DUH strikes again...

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

54. Note to self: don't comment when someone takes a "handicap" spot.

Especially if they're bigger, stronger, abler than me.

Let it go.

[dflprincess]

55. I once made a comment to someone who parked in a handicapped spot

he gave me the finger (and I all I said was, "You know that's a handicapped spot, don't you?&quot

I went on into the grocery store and noticed a city cop just paying his bill at the coffee shop it seemed Karmic, so I made I mentioned it to him. Said the cop "I hate people who do that." And he went out and wrote a ticket (saw him do it).

I knew my cousin sometimes had issues about people using the handicapped spaces when they shouldn't and it just irks me when able bodied people park in those spots.

This all said, please do not construe this to mean that I don't think this ass shouldn't be charged with murder, because I do think he should be locked up for the rest of his miserable life.