All NY Catholic dioceses subpoenaed in sex abuse probe

[fleur-de-lisa]

Last edited Thu Sep 6, 2018, 01:41 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: Washington Post

New York Attorney General Barbara Underwood has subpoenaed all eight Roman Catholic dioceses in the state as part of her office’s investigation into the church’s handling of sex abuse allegations.

A law enforcement source familiar with the investigation but not authorized to speak publicly told The Associated Press the subpoenas went out Thursday.

The subpoenas seek documents relating to sexual abuse allegations, financial payments to possible victims or the findings from internal church investigations.

Underwood’s office is pursuing a civil investigation into how church leaders responded to reports of abuse.




Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/law-enforcement-source-new-york-attorney-general-subpoenas-all-ny-roman-catholic-dioceses-as-part-of-sex-abuse-probe/2018/09/06/c3e89c6c-b1f4-11e8-8b53-50116768e499_story.html?utm_term=.3269524f75ac

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Edited to add further information.

[malthaussen]

1. Oh, this could get ugly.

Has Chicago or Illinois launched an investigation?

-- Mal

[olegramps]

9. When this first surfaced I confronted our bishop to make the files public.

Of course he had reasons for not doing so. Harming possibly innocent people etc...someone's word without evidence etc... I proposed that it was the duty of the bishop to open up all the secret files and go to each and every church in which people could have been molested and encourage them to come forward and offer them assistance with dealing with this horrible abuse of trust. He declined and regarded me as someone out to destroy the church. I became the enemy for daring to question the powerful bishop's authority and vastly superior wisdom. He is still alive and just as contemptable.

Those outside the Catholic Church don't have the appreciation of the hold that the clergy had over the minds and conscience of the Catholic in the pew. A major factor was the confessional in which Catholics from childhood were convinced that the priest actually had the ability to forgive them of their moral lapses and save them from the eternal fires of hell.

Not to bore people, but there was a massive awakening of the laity following a major council that had been called by Pope John XXIII calling for much needed reforms. The revelations that came out with the massive exodus of priests and especially nuns resulted in what I call the severance of the umbilical cord that had made the laity as well as the priests totally dependent on their salvation on the church and its doctrines. The refusal of the hierarchy to reform the teaching on contraception and celibacy of priests were critical issues and were rejected by the majority. Magically, virtually over night millions stopped going to confession. Attendance at mass under the pain of it being a mortal hell damning sin was ignored as the bishops desperately tried to impose their will on the laity and priests. Their attempt to roll back the clock were successful as an attempt to put the tooth paste back in the tube. The people were free, free at last to make their own moral decisions and they weren't going back.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

13. What Gramps just said

And said so well. ESPECIALLY paragraph two. We were all taught that these men had a direct line to God. And what they said to us in Confession was the word of God. Very powerful to an 8 year old, trust me.

[olegramps]

14. I appreciate your reply.

I have talked to many who didn't have the "blessing" of being raised a Catholic.

It is very difficult for them to comprehend the extent to which Catholic children were subjected to a comprehensive indoctrination in these concepts. Your parents had been subjected to the same thinking and as a consequence were a primary factor in this endeavor. If they unquestionably accepted these doctrines that the priest had this type of control, then it would be a rare case that a child could believe anything different. This was intensify throughout the child's upbringing and even more so if they attended Catholic schools.

But when the damn broke it led to massive repudiation of teachings that were the source of real, not imaginary suffering, that Catholics had been subjected to since childhood. For millions it was as if a great weight had been lifted off their very being. They could actually believe that instead of being hopelessly sinful creatures, that they were blessedly normal with the same wonderful imperfections as all mankind. It is my belief many of these priests who molested children were to a certain extent also victims. This in no way excuses them, but the church structure provided them with an a shield and opportunity for their perversion. It is worth giving a thought that is offered in the First Epistle to Timothy on the qualities for leadership in the church. That they should be married and have raised a family rightly for if they had not done these things how could they be entrusted with leadership of the church. I would not rule out all who are unmarried but at least have demonstrated that they had the maturity to trusted with the position.


The abuse that Catholics subjected to was greatly magnified by those who suffered sexual abuse at the hands of priests. It could only result is an inner chaos that had dramatic affects on their entire life. A pain so intense that led many to self destruction. Hopefully, this attempt will help those who were fortunate enough to have not been subject to their psychological abuse to comprehend the situation. I am thankful that I had the opportunity to realize just how dangerous these teaching could and vowed to never allow any child under my guidance to be subjected to this insanity.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

15. You make excellent points, Gramps.

When I was in high school - and McDonalds had just taken America by storm - I had Catholic friends that were terrified that they were going to go to Hell for eating a cheeseburger on a Friday (Remember all of the Friday fish fry dinners at the Church ?) and RAN to confession on Saturday in tears and terror. Today, non-Catholics CANNOT wrap their heads around such an idea. But I remember the fear.

That parents embraced this type of all-encompassing mental and emotional rigormortis ensured that all of us were unquestionably and totally compliant. And, then as you so eloquently phrased it, "when the dam broke," it was like a shock wave through our Catholic community. I think it was hardest of all on my Grandparents (Born at the turn of the 1900s and in another country.), who had lived their entire lives with this dogma, as they were no longer put in the position of being the elder arbiters of the tenets of the faith for us younger ones, and had to question the rigidity of their own upbringing and their entire lives in a faith that had punished them worse than it had punished the younger generation.

My Grandparents never believed the stories about pedophile priests because they were so steadfast in their beliefs that they could not conceive of a priest EVER engaging in such abominations: THESE ARE MEN OF GOD. I think if they had lived today, and seen all of this pouring out now, they would have had mind-shattering psychotic breaks. I don't think they could have handled it. THAT is how strongly they believed - that the Church would NEVER have tolerated such deviancy.

My brothers and sisters and I have drifted into what is now called "Cultural Catholicism," a term I did not know existed until the Pope visited The District a few years ago. I find it almost amusing that none of them have raised their children in the Church. Something that has also carried over to their children.

I hope you can find peace through all of this, Gramps. Your words went straight to my heart. You are not alone out there. Believe me (no play on words intended).

[Stonepounder]

2. How do you subpoena a diocese?

Last edited Thu Sep 6, 2018, 01:49 PM - Edit history (1)

A diocese is "a district under the pastoral care of a bishop in the Christian Church." You can't subpoena a 'district' any more that you could subpoena a library or a corporation. You could subpoena the Bishops which I suppose is what they meant.

Hire a new headline writer WaPo!

Info added to OP clarifying what is actually being subpoenaed. Thanks! That was what was needed to original WaPo headline.

[Leghorn21]

3. GOOD.

Enough is fucking ENOUGH, and has been for decades on end

ENOUGH

THANK YOU AG Underwood

[BumRushDaShow]

4. That is going to take a long time to sift through

Here in PA (and notably in Philly), some of the more prominent investigations started almost 15 years ago and continues today - http://www.post-gazette.com/uncategorized/2005/09/22/Condemnation-but-no-charges-in-probe-of-sex-abuse-by-Philadelphia-priests/stories/200509220481

[Fred Sanders]

6. Pennsylvania x 50 states and territories, x overseas missions, x the rest of the world of the

world...what should be the meaningful consequence for this criminal enterprise and the coverups of these massive crimes on a global scale?

If every nation on the planet is not now investigating the Catholic Church it would be a crime.

[BumRushDaShow]

8. Yup

and multiplied over many hundreds of years.

Of course at one time (and in some countries, at the current time), THEY represented/represent the pinnacle of the power structure (including over some governments) because they had the most money and owned the most land.

[Pisces]

5. It's in every city, every country!! Everyone above Bishop is complicit!!

[fleur-de-lisa]

7. Tweet from AG Underwood

Link to tweet

[hibbing]

10. The small diocese in my city is in turmoil

I live in a city of about 300K people has been having things being revealed weekly. Priests removed and parishioners lied to about why. I think this has just been getting started. I don't see how the bishop of the diocese can survive this, nor should he.

Peace

[cp]

11. Thank you, Attorney General Underwood!

Other 49 AGs?

[B Stieg]

12. She really seems formidable!

Her background and experience, not to mention Ms. Underwood's energy, make her the kind of public servant we need more of!