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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:16 PM Sep 2012

White House declines Netanyahu request to meet with Obama

Last edited Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:47 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: Haaretz

White House declines Netanyahu request to meet with Obama

The White House's response marks a new low in relations between Netanyahu and Obama, underscored by the fact that this is the first time Netanyahu will visit the U.S. as prime minister without meeting Obama.

The White House declined Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's request on Tuesday to meet U.S. President Barack Obama during a UN conference in New York at the end of the month.

An official in Jerusalem said that the prime minister's office sent the White House a message stating that although Netanyahu will spend only two and a half days on U.S. soil, he is interested in meeting Obama and is willing to travel to the U.S. capital specifically for that purpose. The official added that the White House rejected the request and said that at this time Obama's schedule does not allow for a meeting.

The White House's response marks a new low in relations between Netanyahu and Obama, underscored by the fact that this is the first time Netanyahu will visit the U.S. as prime minister without meeting the president.

Defense Minister Ehud Barak tried to ease the tension on Tuesday, saying that the differences between the U.S. and Israel should be ironed out "but behind closed doors."

"We must not forget that the U.S. is Israel's most important source of support in terms of security," he said in a statement.

Earlier on Tuesday, Netanyahu launched an unprecedented verbal attack on the U.S. government over its stance on the Iranian nuclear program.

Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/white-house-declines-netanyahu-request-to-meet-with-obama.premium-1.464328



Registration required @ Haaretz....

I was reading through the comments and found this important post from Tx4obama; The White House response.

Thanks Tx!


Tx4obama (21,645 posts)
20. Netanyahu will not be at the UN the same day Obama will be.


-snip

An Israeli official said the White House had refused Netanyahu's request to meet Obama when the Israeli leader visits the United States to attend the U.N. General Assembly, telling the Israelis "the president's schedule will not permit that."

White House spokesman Tommy Vietor denied Netanyahu's request had been spurned, insisting instead that the two leaders were attending the General Assembly on different days and would not be in New York at the same time.

Netanyahu has had a strained relationship with Obama, but they have met on all but one of his U.S trips since 2009. The president was on a foreign visit when the prime minister came to the United States in November 2010.

-snip-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/obama-netanyahu-meeting_n_1874814.html
120 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
White House declines Netanyahu request to meet with Obama (Original Post) DonViejo Sep 2012 OP
He shouldn't have criticized the US Thrill Sep 2012 #1
So foreign leaders are not allowed to criticize us anymore? totodeinhere Sep 2012 #24
Know whats bad precedent? Thrill Sep 2012 #30
"Foreign leaders injecting themselves into US presidential elections" is an old totodeinhere Sep 2012 #38
Churchill "actively campaigned for FDR in 1940"? thucythucy Sep 2012 #67
This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2012 #87
+1000 Katashi_itto Sep 2012 #95
No, only the ones taking so much from us. nt nanabugg Sep 2012 #33
That would be almost all of them. n/t totodeinhere Sep 2012 #36
What are you talking about? We don't roll out the red carpet when people shit on us, is all. MADem Sep 2012 #45
Foreign leaders that bite the hand that feeds them deserve to be shunned Suji to Seoul Sep 2012 #86
Damn straight! He wants to play that game. Hopefully he is out of luck getting a meeting Katashi_itto Sep 2012 #96
I agree whole heartedly texshelters Sep 2012 #109
If anyone criticizes us we should burn down their consolates 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #107
You can read this Reuters article at the following link without registering... Purveyor Sep 2012 #2
The White House is anti-Semetic Ezlivin Sep 2012 #3
You know there is a way to get Netty's attention. Do you know how they get the balls off a calf southernyankeebelle Sep 2012 #17
A bit harsh, that--just make noises about cutting the foreign aid/military sales, and that should MADem Sep 2012 #46
I know its harsh and I know it isn't going to happen. Light up I was only joking. southernyankeebelle Sep 2012 #72
time to cut bait Dkc05 Sep 2012 #40
I think Netanyahu just might have pissed off a few people in the White House. redgreenandblue Sep 2012 #4
finally. the tail no longer wags the dog. ChairmanAgnostic Sep 2012 #5
Bibi blew it a long time ago. Panasonic Sep 2012 #8
true. quite true. ChairmanAgnostic Sep 2012 #11
My thinking exactly! nt AverageJoe90 Sep 2012 #18
"if he is seen meddling in our politics, people will NOT take kindly to that," former9thward Sep 2012 #21
"where they can build housing for their population" R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2012 #25
If they are outside of Israel then I'm sure that country will take care of it. former9thward Sep 2012 #29
Occupied people seek voice from the world. nt nanabugg Sep 2012 #35
"I don't know what that country is." R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2012 #41
Is that your declaration or does any country in the world recognize "Palestine"? former9thward Sep 2012 #43
Israel certainly doesn't recognize Palestine, and that is sad. R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2012 #59
When you fight wars and lose them shit happens. former9thward Sep 2012 #65
Germany and Japan are now free Democratic societies Ash_F Sep 2012 #68
You are writing to a partisan on the subject. R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2012 #71
Maybe there is still hope for him yet. Ash_F Sep 2012 #73
There is always hope. R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2012 #74
Oh what a lovely picture you paint of post war Germany and Japan. former9thward Sep 2012 #102
The allies worked from the beginning to get axis nations back on their feet... Ash_F Sep 2012 #111
And yet illegal Israeli settlements still exist on Palestinian lands. R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2012 #113
I exprected the spin and you didn't fail in the delivery. R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2012 #69
google "Kaliningrad" n/t rayofreason Sep 2012 #83
Are you suggesting that the Israelis R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2012 #84
Kaliningrad... rayofreason Sep 2012 #88
but there is the magic word they negotiated with the Germans who gave it up willingly azurnoir Sep 2012 #90
"Germans...gave it up willingly" You have got to be joking/smoking. n/t rayofreason Sep 2012 #100
But the Palestinians are basically trapped where they are. Ash_F Sep 2012 #94
In 1948... rayofreason Sep 2012 #99
Until <blank>, there will be no peace. <- a common right-wing line Ash_F Sep 2012 #112
And the repeated lumps are that "illegal" settlements appear on Palestinian lands? R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2012 #106
If you believe the total BS in your post cpwm17 Sep 2012 #81
Same old repeated lies about the "Palestinians [being] pawns of the Arabs." The Stranger Sep 2012 #91
The rest of the world knows it as the occupied territories. Comrade Grumpy Sep 2012 #61
Really? former9thward Sep 2012 #63
130 countries recognize Palestine as a state. Comrade Grumpy Sep 2012 #115
I wonder where the capital is? former9thward Sep 2012 #116
So you then support a "one state solution?" cpwm17 Sep 2012 #42
The Palestinians do not recognize the right of Israel to exist. former9thward Sep 2012 #44
why should they Dkc05 Sep 2012 #51
Well they don't have to. former9thward Sep 2012 #54
Whst is your stake in this? Harry_Scrote Sep 2012 #80
The state of Israel pays me $1000 for every post I do on DU. former9thward Sep 2012 #104
Chicken and Egg Ash_F Sep 2012 #62
It is already one state cpwm17 Sep 2012 #82
Yes--that "Palestinian Army" that the Palestinians don't have will take care of it. MADem Sep 2012 #47
Jimmy Carter deviated from either party's position on Israel long ago. former9thward Sep 2012 #52
His efforts were a foundation, not a conclusion. nt MADem Sep 2012 #77
He who pays the piper calls the tune? hedgehog Sep 2012 #26
Then I am sure you will have no problem having China dictate our policies. former9thward Sep 2012 #28
We can just print hundreds of billions and pay them back if they insist--don't think they'd go for MADem Sep 2012 #48
Oh I think they do lead it. former9thward Sep 2012 #53
Silent? Really? Perhaps you aren't listening. MADem Sep 2012 #79
Wow what an expertly crafted statement... Ash_F Sep 2012 #55
I lost count of the strawmen in your post. former9thward Sep 2012 #58
I am not anti-Israel, I am anti right-wing ideaology. Ash_F Sep 2012 #64
I agree, and we shouldn't be giving them any aid either.. snooper2 Sep 2012 #98
I would have no problem cutting aid to Israel all the other countries in the region. former9thward Sep 2012 #105
Wow, I never expected to see a supporter of GENOCIDE on DU. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #57
Supporter of Israel is now equal to genocide. former9thward Sep 2012 #60
You support the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their own land... Odin2005 Sep 2012 #75
The US is not sanctioning nor threatening Israel. David__77 Sep 2012 #70
The White House did NOT decline the meeting - there is a confict in schedules. Big difference! n/t Tx4obama Sep 2012 #6
But this is the spin that the RW wants to push to turn off the Jewish vote for Obama. nt nanabugg Sep 2012 #37
Not being fooled, they'll go at least 80% Dem /nt Ash_F Sep 2012 #56
Good, finally a president who will stand up to this thug tularetom Sep 2012 #7
The story is wrong leftynyc Sep 2012 #10
No the story is right Obama will not be meeting Netanyahu but one of Obama's 'underlings' will azurnoir Sep 2012 #22
The implication of the story is WRONG leftynyc Sep 2012 #93
yes the White house is now denying that there was a request for a meeting azurnoir Sep 2012 #97
The Mini-Mayor of Teheran has plenty to atone for, though I doubt he'll use the opportunity! nt MADem Sep 2012 #49
Why does Obama hate the Jews???? JoePhilly Sep 2012 #9
Cut all military (WELFARE) payments to Israel. penndragon69 Sep 2012 #12
I'm afraid too many people do not understand that personality type! So they don't believe you. patrice Sep 2012 #14
Nice thought but DonCoquixote Sep 2012 #16
Saudi Arabia plays a "both sides against the middle" game MADem Sep 2012 #50
Watch Congress continue to approve more support than we give to the entire continent of Africa. nt patrice Sep 2012 #13
Not true! Nancy Waterman Sep 2012 #15
The meeting will happen. iandhr Sep 2012 #19
who will in your opinion "saving face" and why? n/t azurnoir Sep 2012 #23
Bibi will try to save face with the President. iandhr Sep 2012 #76
Bibi seems to have placed his eggs in Rmoneys basket azurnoir Sep 2012 #89
Netanyahu will not be at the UN the same day Obama will be. Tx4obama Sep 2012 #20
Just made NBC Nightly and it is about all rw hateradio are talking about this evening. Now I wonder Purveyor Sep 2012 #27
Tell me bibi didn't do this on purpose so they could put some distance WCGreen Sep 2012 #31
I'm pretty certain of it, indeed. Bastards. eom Purveyor Sep 2012 #34
All Netanyahu is going to do is to make more threats if Obama doesn't attack Iran. no_hypocrisy Sep 2012 #32
Time for a new friend over there Dkc05 Sep 2012 #39
The hell with Israel. Stop subsidizing them with my tax dollors. Hotler Sep 2012 #66
I totally agree with you, Hotler Carolina Sep 2012 #118
This has already been debunked bluestateguy Sep 2012 #78
New: No meeting requested Tx4obama Sep 2012 #85
So basically JustAnotherGen Sep 2012 #101
Another example of how left the media is .99center Sep 2012 #92
Good. nt ladjf Sep 2012 #103
This story is a lie. Zoeisright Sep 2012 #108
Right- Iran and Syria have to be dealt with also underpants Sep 2012 #120
Good on Obama! lanlady Sep 2012 #110
This was a Political stunt.......... SILVER__FOX52 Sep 2012 #114
About Bloody Time! Hab Habit Sep 2012 #117
Good. Now cut off the financial and military aid we give them. Lil Missy Sep 2012 #119

Thrill

(19,178 posts)
30. Know whats bad precedent?
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:49 PM
Sep 2012

Foreign leaders injecting themselves into US Presidential Elections. Which is exactly what he is doing. He basically grew up in the US. He knows exactly what he is doing

totodeinhere

(13,058 posts)
38. "Foreign leaders injecting themselves into US presidential elections" is an old
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:11 PM
Sep 2012

game that has been practiced during many election cycles. For instance, Winston Churchill actively campaigned for FDR in 1940.
That doesn't make it right, but let the voters see what is going on and come to their own conclusions.

thucythucy

(8,069 posts)
67. Churchill "actively campaigned for FDR in 1940"?
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:44 PM
Sep 2012

Really? Have you got a source for that?

Reading Churchill's memoirs, I got the distinct impression he actively AVOIDED voicing support for FDR, for fear the reactionary right isolationists would accuse FDR of trying to drag the US into a war "to pull England's chestnuts out of the fire."

In December 1941, when Churchill visited the US after Pearl Harbor, he made it a point to meet with Wendill Wilkie, the GOP candidate for president in 1940.

Response to totodeinhere (Reply #38)

MADem

(135,425 posts)
45. What are you talking about? We don't roll out the red carpet when people shit on us, is all.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:53 PM
Sep 2012

No one said he couldn't come visit--it'll just happen on OUR schedule, not his demands based on his personal convenience in a busy period.

Dumb bastard should know better than to interfere in a Presidential election--and that is what he's trying to do.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if Bibi the Warmonger cozies up to McCain and/or RMoney as an alternate.

 

Suji to Seoul

(2,035 posts)
86. Foreign leaders that bite the hand that feeds them deserve to be shunned
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:00 AM
Sep 2012

North Korea loathes China. . .most Chinese people know that and dislike North Korea.

 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
96. Damn straight! He wants to play that game. Hopefully he is out of luck getting a meeting
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 05:37 AM
Sep 2012

till after the election.

 

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)
107. If anyone criticizes us we should burn down their consolates
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 03:06 PM
Sep 2012

murder their ambassadors and demand they apologize.

It's their own fault for provoking us.

Ezlivin

(8,153 posts)
3. The White House is anti-Semetic
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:19 PM
Sep 2012

When will Obama and his administration finally let Israel run things? They need control at the White House and he is obstructing them.

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
17. You know there is a way to get Netty's attention. Do you know how they get the balls off a calf
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:49 PM
Sep 2012

not to make them so aggressive? Put a rubber band around the balls real tight until the fall off. That will do. He will stop being aggressive and make him a Miss instead of Mr. If that fails the stop the aide going to them. That will shut his big fat mouth. Just saying.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
46. A bit harsh, that--just make noises about cutting the foreign aid/military sales, and that should
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:56 PM
Sep 2012

tone down the rhetoric. We are very generous to both Israel and Egypt.

ChairmanAgnostic

(28,017 posts)
5. finally. the tail no longer wags the dog.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:23 PM
Sep 2012

Bibi has a problem. If he throws too much of a hissy fit, and pushes for Romney, he risks really pissing off the country and losing even more pull within the WH. Even worse, if he is seen meddling in our politics, people will NOT take kindly to that, and will react badly to Israel's efforts.

Then again, Romney has not been the sharpest of tacks on any issue, and Bibi has his own severe case of myopia. together, they can really fuck things up. For themselves.

 

Panasonic

(2,921 posts)
8. Bibi blew it a long time ago.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:31 PM
Sep 2012

The coalition party needs to be broken up and an election date is set.

The country needs to go left - Likudniks has lost all credibility and should not be trusted.

The Labor Party needs to find other lefties to form a coalition party and get Bibi kicked out as well as Avigdor Lieberman who is a danger to Israel.

ChairmanAgnostic

(28,017 posts)
11. true. quite true.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:41 PM
Sep 2012

AIPAC and other local groups have to be shitting themselves right now. Normally, congressional doors and every WH door was always open to them. Now, given the crap caused by Bibi, that may not be the case. And, I suspect, except for Lieberman (is that asshole STILL on tv?), even the strongest AIPAC supporters will not go out on a limb against the White House in favor of Bibi's war-mongering.

former9thward

(32,023 posts)
21. "if he is seen meddling in our politics, people will NOT take kindly to that,"
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:20 PM
Sep 2012

But people in the U.S. seem to have no problem meddling in Israeli politics. We want to tell them where their capital can and can't be, where they can build housing for their population, etc. Interesting double standard.

former9thward

(32,023 posts)
29. If they are outside of Israel then I'm sure that country will take care of it.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:47 PM
Sep 2012

I don't know what that country is and I am unaware of any country in the world that has recognized it but since its "outside Israel" I'm sure its there.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
41. "I don't know what that country is."
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:31 PM
Sep 2012

Now if that statement isn't weak sauce then what is?

The nation of Israel exists within the Jewish people and has for millennium with or without a state.

The nation of Palestine exists within the Palestinian peoples: presently existing on lands where they exist under apartheid.

former9thward

(32,023 posts)
43. Is that your declaration or does any country in the world recognize "Palestine"?
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:36 PM
Sep 2012

There are plenty of Israeli hating countries out there so I'm sure you can find some for your cause.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
59. Israel certainly doesn't recognize Palestine, and that is sad.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:25 PM
Sep 2012

For a people that have wandered for literally generations without a home and now have one Israel should be the first country to recognize Palestine, regardless that some of them are assholes, give them back the lands pilfered by illegal settlements, and accept that life isn't always going to be easy.

What legal or moral standpoint can one country have where its citizenry move into territory not within its borders except colonialism?

Let's see you put some spin on the next answer.

former9thward

(32,023 posts)
65. When you fight wars and lose them shit happens.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:39 PM
Sep 2012

Ask Germany and Japan. The Arab countries launched a war, in violation of the UN mandate, the minute Israel was created. They used the Palestinians as pawns in that war and those that followed. If the Palestinians had stayed put they would not be in their situation today. Instead they listened to the Arab countries who said to flee their homes so they could kill all the Jews who remained. We occupied Japan and Germany too for years. If you are going to attack you better win. That is not spin it is the real world like it or not.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
68. Germany and Japan are now free Democratic societies
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:48 PM
Sep 2012

Even though right-wing insurgents in both countries continued to commit attacks against the occupiers, the allies treated the greater population with dignity and respect. And further allowed them to be involved in the running of the government that they lived under. Do you see how this is different than how Israel treats the Palestinians?

PS - Oh and btw. What happened to those Right-Wing German and Japanese insurgent movements after the allies allowed the greater populations representation? They died out. Thank you for bringing up WWII. Maybe reviewing that history will help you see the error in your logic.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
71. You are writing to a partisan on the subject.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:53 PM
Sep 2012

Most likely the texts that this argument is derived from is not based on human rights or modern society but instead one that was derived thousands of years ago without any basis in reality.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
73. Maybe there is still hope for him yet.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:59 PM
Sep 2012

Either way, it's a good history review and got me thinking about some things.

former9thward

(32,023 posts)
102. Oh what a lovely picture you paint of post war Germany and Japan.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:49 PM
Sep 2012

No, people were not treated with "dignity and respect". Conditions in Germany were deplorable with estimates of up to two million deaths by starvation in the western part of Germany. One of the allies was the Soviet Union. It imposed decades of economic and political brutality against Germans in the east. Germans in the eastern part of now unified Germany still suffer as a result.

BTW if you are worried about the conditions of Palestinians please go to Palestinian camps in Lebanon and Jordon. See how the Arab countries treat the people whose cause they supposedly support. I have been to camps in both countries and the conditions are deplorable. The people there would kill to get to go to the West Bank.


But go ahead and paint your pictures. It has no basis in reality but I doubt that bothers you.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
111. The allies worked from the beginning to get axis nations back on their feet...
Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:34 AM
Sep 2012

..and involved in their government. And they made did make concerted efforts to combat poverty and starvation. The West did, at least. They even re-established workers unions, something the previous right-wing governments abolished. I am aware of the suffering you described(as you say, war has consequences) but that is not relevant to the point. The Allies were not trying to create suffering, nor make excuses for it. No they did not hand back sovereignty right away but they worked on it from day one. And they did not allow the attacks of a minority of extremist partisans poison that process, because it was the right thing to do. Pointing the finger at the misdeeds of neighboring Arab countries is also not relevant to this point. Those countries are not proper democracies either; I am not sure if you think I support that or something. I think you are really focused on finding "the bad guy" here to justify everything, but that is not the way to look forward and improve anything.

Remember this sub-thread started when you made a post purposefully ignoring an entire population(4 million) that would be forced into an increasingly shrinking ghetto, with no way to escape, if it went as you said. That is a messed up attitude to have for being a member of a site like this(with no basis on reality). The backlash you are receiving from multiple people is a result of that. All I am saying is that people should not be ignored, history has proven this is the right way to go.

Cheers

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
113. And yet illegal Israeli settlements still exist on Palestinian lands.
Thu Sep 13, 2012, 11:56 AM
Sep 2012

Why deflect from that?

But go ahead and paint your pictures. It has no basis in reality but I doubt that bothers you.
 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
69. I exprected the spin and you didn't fail in the delivery.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:48 PM
Sep 2012

How many Allied colonies were illegally set up in those countries after WWII?

How many Allied colonies are there today?

How many Americans just appeared and said that the land belonged to them?

You could rename the Palestinian territories the Sudetenland, and you would be closer to the answer of what is truly going on.
 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
84. Are you suggesting that the Israelis
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 11:23 PM
Sep 2012

should be viewed as no different than the monstrous and expansionist Soviet Union?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland

Some descriptions of the Soviets: cruel, evil, vindictive and murderous.

Want to go there?


I thank you for enlightening me on that point, though. I had forgotten that bit of history with most of eastern Europe being absorbed into the confines of the totalitarian hug of the Soviets. Although I do not view Israel as I would the Soviet Union I still believe that countries, prompted by evil leaders, will do whatever they can to destroy a different culture if it will advance their own motives.

rayofreason

(2,259 posts)
88. Kaliningrad...
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:15 AM
Sep 2012

...is only one piece of land that changed hands. The USSR grabbed a slice of Poland (the part they got when they negotiated with the Nazis) and then gave the new Poland a slice of Germany. There were mass migrations/deportations. Today we do not have permanent "refugee" camps in Germany staffed by the UN, or suicide bombers trying to take back Koeningsburg. I guess the people of central Europe decide to get over it and look forward, not back.

Germany launched a war and lost. There were consequences. Territory changes hands sometimes because of such consequences. This has always been true and likely always will be true. Sometimes the initiator of the war gains. The Balkan League did so in 1912. Nowadays that kind of behavior is frowned upon. But if you start a war and lose, most people will still say you have to take your lumps.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
90. but there is the magic word they negotiated with the Germans who gave it up willingly
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:42 AM
Sep 2012

not so in the case of the Palestinians, in none of the cases you mentioned were entire countries lost just snips of land here and there

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
94. But the Palestinians are basically trapped where they are.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 05:30 AM
Sep 2012

The Germans that were expelled ended up in what is today modern Germany, which was able to absorb them and of course allowed them representation in government. Palestinians don't have a similar option, though most yearn for a new home. Many have made it into Jordan and Egypt but there are still about 4 million who would need to find a place that could absorb their numbers. The US had a hard time absorbing the mere 400K displaced by Katrina, in a land area 500 times larger. This would not be a trivial migration, but maybe someday. In the meantime, what is the excuse for human rights abuses of civilians who were not even alive during the war? "take your lumps"? That is ridiculous.

You are right that people need to get over it and look forward, not back. But it is not just the Palestinians.

rayofreason

(2,259 posts)
99. In 1948...
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:55 AM
Sep 2012

...there were not 4 million Palestinians in Israel - the number displaced was about 700,000. The West Bank was grabbed by Jordan and Gaza was grabbed by Eygpt. Curious that there was no Palestinian state formed then, no? But remember, it was the Arabs who attacked the newly formed state of Israel, with the stated intention of driving all the Jews out and/or killing them.

In 1945, Germany had about 65 million people, and 12-14 million (about 20%) were expelled from previously German lands. Egypt had a population of 35 million in 1948, so the displaced Palestinians would have amounted to 2% of the population, yet the Egyptians chose not to allow any Palestinians to settle in Egypt.

The Arab world attacked Israel with the express intention of wiping it out. They lost. They have never accepted that fact and there is still a strong desire to wipe out Israel. Until the Arabs get over that desire, there will be no peace.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
112. Until <blank>, there will be no peace. <- a common right-wing line
Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:57 AM
Sep 2012

(sigh) A sad thing to see on a site like this. "The Arabs desire to wipe out Israel" is a common right-wing lie and it is also sad to see that one here. You shouldn't paint the majority of Palestinians with the opinions of an extremist right-wing minority.

There were a lot factors involved other than the numbers you gave. I won't get into a point for point but the situations are not comparable, and yes that is partially the fault of the neighboring countries, not just Israel. Also, I am talking about today and the future, not 1948. Being stuck in 1948 won't help anything.

I am not opposed to the idea of resettlement in neighboring countries as a possible solution to Palestinian's plight. I am just saying it is easier said than done. A Palestinian living in the occupied territories today does not have not that option. So why should that person suffer from human rights abuses, today?

 

cpwm17

(3,829 posts)
81. If you believe the total BS in your post
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 10:57 PM
Sep 2012

then I have a bridge to nowhere I can sell you really cheap. No serious historian agrees with your account of history.

It's should be no surprise to anyone that you believe in that racist version of history since you support an Apartheid state and ethnic cleansing.

The Stranger

(11,297 posts)
91. Same old repeated lies about the "Palestinians [being] pawns of the Arabs."
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:57 AM
Sep 2012

They're being occupied by Israel, not the Arabs.

To paraphrase: when you occupy people, shit happens.

And you can never win at occupation, regardless of whether you believe they attacked first.

former9thward

(32,023 posts)
63. Really?
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:33 PM
Sep 2012

Do they have nation to nation relations between each other? Just like any other country which is recognized? I didn't think so....

former9thward

(32,023 posts)
116. I wonder where the capital is?
Thu Sep 13, 2012, 05:01 PM
Sep 2012

I have never seen that on a map.

Yes we do know the answer to the blockage of statehood. It is the Palestinians. If they were to get statehood it would mean recognition of Israel right to exist. And that they will never ever do that. Never. That is why Arafat rejected the Clinton Camp David peace deal in 2000. He was offered everything he wanted and still turned it down. He knew it would be his death to recognize the right of Israel to exist.

 

cpwm17

(3,829 posts)
42. So you then support a "one state solution?"
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:32 PM
Sep 2012

Since you claim this area outside the boarders of Israel is really part of Israel, you must support a "one state solution."

Great, now everybody that lives within these boarders has equal rights, including the right to vote - problem solved.

former9thward

(32,023 posts)
44. The Palestinians do not recognize the right of Israel to exist.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:40 PM
Sep 2012

Until that happens and they stop firing rockets into Israeli cities, sending their children strapped with bombs into teenage pizza hangouts, then it will be a one state solution.

former9thward

(32,023 posts)
54. Well they don't have to.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:01 PM
Sep 2012

They can take your position. Hasn't worked out too well for them over the last 60 years. But in another 60 or 600 years who knows?

Harry_Scrote

(121 posts)
80. Whst is your stake in this?
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 10:45 PM
Sep 2012

Why do fail to see the alternative... You have a vested interest which lends to you sounding Zionist. Who is paying you to post?

former9thward

(32,023 posts)
104. The state of Israel pays me $1000 for every post I do on DU.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 01:06 PM
Sep 2012

It is really quite lucrative. How much are you getting?

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
62. Chicken and Egg
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:33 PM
Sep 2012

Palestinians are simply not born with the same rights. Even Israeli Arabs and non-Ashkenazi Jews suffer from discrimination in Israel today. You don't punish someone preemptively just because of where they were born or their ethnicity. That is fundamental morality. By your logic, apartheid in South Africa should have continued because of the actions of violent rebels, or slavery should not have been abolished in the States due to the slave riots. You are advocating perpetual oppression.

Both of those injustices were corrected by the party with the power choosing to do what is right in taking the first step. The same must happen in Israel.

 

cpwm17

(3,829 posts)
82. It is already one state
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 11:03 PM
Sep 2012

ONE APARTHEID STATE

I can only imagine what Americans would do if someone tried to do to us what has been done to the Palestinians, considering our bad habit of bombing people that have never threatened or harmed us in any way..

MADem

(135,425 posts)
47. Yes--that "Palestinian Army" that the Palestinians don't have will take care of it.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:59 PM
Sep 2012

Come on--you're not naive; stop playing like it. You're insulting Jimmy Carter's many years of hard work on this issue when you parse and play word games.

former9thward

(32,023 posts)
52. Jimmy Carter deviated from either party's position on Israel long ago.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:40 PM
Sep 2012

I don't agree with his "hard work". If you agree with him then you certainly don't hold the position of any mainstream Democratic leaders.

hedgehog

(36,286 posts)
26. He who pays the piper calls the tune?
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:40 PM
Sep 2012

The Obama Administration’s FY2013 request includes $3.1 billion in Foreign Military Financing
for Israel and $15 million for refugee resettlement. Within the U.S. Department of Defense, the
U.S. Missile Defense Agency’s FY2013 budget request includes $99.8 million in joint U.S.-
Israeli co-development for missile defense.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

former9thward

(32,023 posts)
28. Then I am sure you will have no problem having China dictate our policies.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:43 PM
Sep 2012

They have loaned us hundreds of billions to keep our budget afloat so I guess they get run things.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
48. We can just print hundreds of billions and pay them back if they insist--don't think they'd go for
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:01 PM
Sep 2012

that, do you? That's what some might call a Pyrrhic Victory.

See, they may pay the piper, but they don't lead the orchestra.

former9thward

(32,023 posts)
53. Oh I think they do lead it.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:51 PM
Sep 2012

Since we became a heavy debtor to China we have largely gone quiet on China's civil rights abuses. We will pick a dissident here and there to complain about --out of nation of 1.2 billion -- but that is about it. So I think China is getting a nice return on investment.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
55. Wow what an expertly crafted statement...
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:03 PM
Sep 2012

...that makes no mention of the existence that whole other population. Bravo, you should work for the Romney campaign to teach them something about messaging, empathy and being in touch.

And the US consistently vetos UN resolutions, that the entire rest of the world supports, in favor of the Israeli government's position. Every time. This has not changed under Obama. The level of political support the U.S. gives couldn't be any higher. That is 'meddling' to you? I supposed if they did so much as merely abstain, you would consider that an act of war?

former9thward

(32,023 posts)
58. I lost count of the strawmen in your post.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:23 PM
Sep 2012

The original poster I replied to said he didn't want Israel "meddling" in U.S. politics. Fine. If that is the principle then perhaps we shouldn't meddle in Israeli politics either. Now go ahead and insert your anti-Israel rants wherever you want.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
64. I am not anti-Israel, I am anti right-wing ideaology.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:39 PM
Sep 2012

You act like the US has not been supportive. I argue that they have been supportive, over-supportive in some cases. There were no strawmen there.

Cheers

PS - Speaking of strawmen, I believe in a free democratic Israel. "Anti-Israel" lol

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
98. I agree, and we shouldn't be giving them any aid either..
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 10:40 AM
Sep 2012

They are big boys right, they can take care of theirselves...

former9thward

(32,023 posts)
105. I would have no problem cutting aid to Israel all the other countries in the region.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 01:23 PM
Sep 2012

Cut aid to the Arab countries and cut aid to the Palestinians who we fund.

former9thward

(32,023 posts)
60. Supporter of Israel is now equal to genocide.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:26 PM
Sep 2012

Ok. Got it. Why in the world do you post on DU which supports the Democratic party? Doesn't being part of a party that supports genocide and voting for party leaders that support genocide bother you? Or do you just look past that small problem?

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
75. You support the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their own land...
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 10:16 PM
Sep 2012

...in order to make room for Israeli settlers.

Obama agrees with the rest of the world that those settlements are illegal under international law. It is the right who supports the settlers because they think it will make Jesus return sooner.

The Pals would not be shooting rockets at Israel if the Israelis were not ethnically cleansing them.

David__77

(23,421 posts)
70. The US is not sanctioning nor threatening Israel.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:52 PM
Sep 2012

Israel is free to sever US influence at any time, in fact. There are some in that country who would prefer that course, and see the US as undermining its national security in the long run.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
10. The story is wrong
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:34 PM
Sep 2012

He will be meeting with SOS Clinton and some others but Bibi and Pres Obama will not be at the General Assemby on the same day. Meanwhile I heard yesterday that the madman from Iran will be addressing the GA on Yom Kippur.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/159820

What could possibly go wrong?

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
22. No the story is right Obama will not be meeting Netanyahu but one of Obama's 'underlings' will
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:21 PM
Sep 2012

now I say underling because both both Obama and Netanyahu are their respective countries leaders the same could said if Netanyahu refused to meet with Obama and sent Yvet (Avigdor Lieberman) instead but thanks for the link to settler news on Ahmadinejad's addressing the UN

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
93. The implication of the story is WRONG
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 05:17 AM
Sep 2012

He didn't refuse to meet with Bibi but if it you happy to think so, knock yourself out. You would think that what happened last week at the convention would have taught you something but it seems to have gone right over your head. Carry on with your fantasies. Don't like the link for the true ahmadinejad story? Tough.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
97. yes the White house is now denying that there was a request for a meeting
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 08:25 AM
Sep 2012

The White House denied published reports that Mr Obama had rejected Mr Netanyahu's request to meet with him in Washington next week. No such request was made or rejected, White House spokesman Tommy Vietor said.

The unusual, late-night announcement from the White House comes after Netanyahu criticised what he called the world's failure to spell out what would provoke a US-led military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. Netanyahu has urged the US to set "red lines" for Tehran and the Obama administration refused.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/9537354/White-House-denies-rift-with-Israel-over-Iranian-nuclear-weapons.html

MADem

(135,425 posts)
49. The Mini-Mayor of Teheran has plenty to atone for, though I doubt he'll use the opportunity! nt
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:03 PM
Sep 2012
 

penndragon69

(788 posts)
12. Cut all military (WELFARE) payments to Israel.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:42 PM
Sep 2012

Let them cover their own asses and then MAYBE..

They will stop being such arrogant PRICKS towards
the Muslim world !

patrice

(47,992 posts)
14. I'm afraid too many people do not understand that personality type! So they don't believe you.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:50 PM
Sep 2012

I know a few "arrogant PRICKS" and there's absolutely NOTHING you can do about their behavior. They take advantage of anything and everything that is not "arrogant prick-ness" and THAT they LOVE even when it is their own mortal enemy, because it is the means by which they define and give "substance" to their own empty souls.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
16. Nice thought but
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:30 PM
Sep 2012

The muslims are themselves full of pricks that would bathe in Jew's blood.. The sad part is, bioth cukltures overlook they are in their mess because their God, that God of Abraham, is such a manipulative, worthless, lying piece of trash (in addition to never existing in the first place)

The onyl way there has ever been piece is when a third party forces peace, and right now, the Un is not up for that task.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
50. Saudi Arabia plays a "both sides against the middle" game
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:11 PM
Sep 2012

and tosses money around like mad, keeping the "Enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing going, and uniting the Arab world in being professionally aggrieved so that oil-poor nations don't start questioning the House of Saud over their right to/distribution of oil wealth and their "Might Makes Right" assumption that they are somehow the only proper guardians of the Holy Places.

It doesn't matter if the God of Abraham/Ibrahim exists--so long as people are convinced that is the case, you'll have three of the world's major religions getting all excited over some real estate in a kinda warm area of the world.

That might be abated somewhat if the only thing we needed oil for was decorator lamps and motor lubrication....

iandhr

(6,852 posts)
19. The meeting will happen.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:03 PM
Sep 2012

There will be some very fast face-saving statements and the meeting will take.

iandhr

(6,852 posts)
76. Bibi will try to save face with the President.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 10:17 PM
Sep 2012

Bibi can not afford to risk anything in Israel's relationship with the United States.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
89. Bibi seems to have placed his eggs in Rmoneys basket
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:26 AM
Sep 2012

but it doesn't look too good for Rmoney at the moment there is speculation that this will be used to gain support for Rmoney

Tx4obama

(36,974 posts)
20. Netanyahu will not be at the UN the same day Obama will be.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:07 PM
Sep 2012

-snip

An Israeli official said the White House had refused Netanyahu's request to meet Obama when the Israeli leader visits the United States to attend the U.N. General Assembly, telling the Israelis "the president's schedule will not permit that."

White House spokesman Tommy Vietor denied Netanyahu's request had been spurned, insisting instead that the two leaders were attending the General Assembly on different days and would not be in New York at the same time.

Netanyahu has had a strained relationship with Obama, but they have met on all but one of his U.S trips since 2009. The president was on a foreign visit when the prime minister came to the United States in November 2010.

-snip-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/obama-netanyahu-meeting_n_1874814.html

 

Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
27. Just made NBC Nightly and it is about all rw hateradio are talking about this evening. Now I wonder
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:40 PM
Sep 2012

who presented this 'story' to Reuters?

WCGreen

(45,558 posts)
31. Tell me bibi didn't do this on purpose so they could put some distance
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:50 PM
Sep 2012

between the American Jewish Community and president Obama.

He probably set it up so that when president Obama would be at the UN he was not. Then he could go out and cry a river to the "Israel as a staging ground for the second coming crowd" in the GOP and drive a wedge between American Jewish supporters and the Democratic Party.

They want Romney because they believe he will back bibi's belligerence no matter how dangerous.

I'm not saying we can't support Israel but it's time we reassess the relationship because we seem to be the one's doing all the supporting and giving in.




 

Dkc05

(375 posts)
39. Time for a new friend over there
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:19 PM
Sep 2012

We have supported the wrong country for many years in the Middle East. Israel is not truly are friend. . The president knows what he is doing to achieve his goal.

Hotler

(11,425 posts)
66. The hell with Israel. Stop subsidizing them with my tax dollors.
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:43 PM
Sep 2012

It's time they learned to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. Let the Jewish community and the repugs that support them us their own money to support the country.

Carolina

(6,960 posts)
118. I totally agree with you, Hotler
Thu Sep 13, 2012, 05:48 PM
Sep 2012

I mightily resent that any of my tax dollars go to support the bully of th Middle East -- Israel

Tx4obama

(36,974 posts)
85. New: No meeting requested
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 11:24 PM
Sep 2012

White House: Obama talks with Netanyahu on Iran, no meeting sought

Washington (CNN) -- President Barack Obama talked with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in a call Tuesday night about the threat posed by Iran's nuclear program, according to a White House statement.

Obama placed the call to Netanyahu, a senior administration official told CNN.

The one-paragraph statement from the White House, which referred to the Obama-Netanyahu discussion as "a part of their ongoing consultations," followed reports earlier in the day that the White House had rejected a request by Netanyahu to meet with Obama this month to discuss Iran's nuclear program.

-snip-

"Contrary to reports in the press, there was never a request for Prime Minister Netanyahu to meet with President Obama in Washington, nor was a request for a meeting ever denied," the White House said Tuesday night in its statement, which made reference to "our close cooperation on Iran and other security issues."

-snip-

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/11/politics/obama-netanyahu-iran/index.html

.99center

(1,237 posts)
92. Another example of how left the media is
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 02:19 AM
Sep 2012

Are the networks and the journalist who reported this fake story going to be held accountable?

underpants

(182,826 posts)
120. Right- Iran and Syria have to be dealt with also
Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:36 PM
Sep 2012

Hosting the Israeli PM would not in any way help those issues.

lanlady

(7,134 posts)
110. Good on Obama!
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 06:03 PM
Sep 2012

That asshole isn't just interfering in an election, he's blatantly trying to manipulate the electorate in this country. I'm glad the president called his bluff.

SILVER__FOX52

(535 posts)
114. This was a Political stunt..........
Thu Sep 13, 2012, 12:53 PM
Sep 2012

Netanyahu is an idiot. He is completely immersed in the right-wing culture in the USA. They are in bed together. We have to pull away from this insane relationship with Israel. This effort by so-called Religious Organizations to control our Government is not only dangerous it is in direct contradiction to our Constitution. I and most other Americans, don't want this religious garbage infecting our Foreign Policy.

 

Hab Habit

(40 posts)
117. About Bloody Time!
Thu Sep 13, 2012, 05:13 PM
Sep 2012

Your country doesn't have a Prime Minister, and doesn't need one! Especially not the head of an apartheid regime!

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