Brexit live updates: Parliament again rejects Theresa May's Brexit deal

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: Washington Post

LONDON — Theresa May’s Brexit deal was slapped down for third time by the British Parliament on Friday, with all bets off on when or how United Kingdom will leave the European Union. The E.U. gave Britain until the end of this week to approve the withdrawal agreement. Now it has until April 12 to propose a new plan, or leave the bloc without a deal.

The prime minister’s stripped-down version of her twice-defeated Brexit deal lost on Friday by 58 votes — 344 to 286 — in yet another “last ditch” and “cliff edge” attempt to exit from the European Union. The third losing vote for May in the House of Commons came on the day Britain was due to “take back control” and depart the continental trading bloc. But instead of Brexiteers gulping pints and waving Union Jack flags to celebrate what they were, once upon a time, calling “British Independence Day,” (copyright pending re: American Revolution) the parliamentarians are still debating how and whether they want to leave.

“Today should have been the day that the United Kingdom left the European Union. That we are not leaving today is a matter of deep personal regret to me,” May said, moments before lawmakers started voting. “There are those who will say, ‘the House has rejected every option so far, you’ll probably lose, so why bother?’ I bother because this is the last opportunity to guarantee Brexit,” she said.

The prime minister offered to resign if her own Conservative Party could help deal over the line. And that did help convince some members to back it — but not enough.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/brexit-live-updates/2019/03/29/a3e055b2-517d-11e9-bdb7-44f948cc0605_story.html

---

Full headline: Brexit live updates: Parliament again rejects Theresa May's Brexit deal on day Britain was supposed to 'take back control'

Original article -

BREAKING NEWS: March 29 was to be the day Britain left the European Union. Instead, the House of Commons voted against a partial version of the deal negotiated between the British prime minister and the E.U. Britain has until April 12 to propose a new way forward or crash out of the bloc without a deal.

This is a developing story and will be updated.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/brexit-live-updates/2019/03/29/a3e055b2-517d-11e9-bdb7-44f948cc0605_story.html?utm_term=.665c9293a347

NYT -

Brexit Live Updates: U.K. Parliament Rejects Theresa May's Deal

By The New York Times

March 29, 2019

British lawmakers on Friday rejected Prime Minister Theresa May's plan for withdrawing from the European Union for the third time, leaving her policy in ruins and the casting the nation's politics into further confusion, with the scheduled departure date looming two weeks away.

The vote on Friday might have been Mrs. May's last chance to succeed on the issue that has dominated and defined her time in office, and the result leftopen an array of possibilities, including renewed demands for her resignation and early parliamentary elections.

The defeat appears to leave the increasingly weakened prime minister with two unpalatable options in the short run: Britain can leave the bloc on April 12 without an agreement in place, a chaotic and potentially economically damaging withdrawal; or Mrs. May can ask European leaders - who have ruled out a short delay if her plan failed - for what could be a long postponement.

The only thing a parliamentary majority has been able to agree on is that it does not want to crash out of the European Union without a deal. But a long delay would enrage pro-Brexit lawmakers who see a further postponement as a first step toward watering down Brexit, or even killing it entirely.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/world/europe/brexit-vote-theresa-may.html

[muriel_volestrangler]

1. 344 votes to 286

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/29/mps-reject-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-third-time

[BumRushDaShow]

4. Thank you. From your article

The vote was held on the day when Britain was meant to be leaving the European Union.

It was not a third “meaningful vote”, as MPs were only asked to consider the withdrawal agreement, which includes the controversial Irish backstop and secures EU citizens’ rights and the post-Brexit transition period.

Under the deal agreed by EU leaders in Brussels last week, Brexit was to be delayed until 22 May if the prime minister could win parliament’s backing for the withdrawal agreement this week. Instead, she will now have to return to Brussels before 12 April to ask for a longer delay – requiring Britain to hold European elections in May – or accept a no-deal Brexit.

MPs are due to hold another series of “indicative votes” on Monday, a process initiated by a cross-party group of backbenchers led by Oliver Letwin, in a bid to find a majority in the House of Commons for some way out of the impasse.

For some reason, I was thinking today was a "hard date" but it is apparently a self-imposed date and April 12 is really the date for meaningful now or never action.

[Denzil_DC]

5. It was timed from the triggering of Article 50 by May.

The EU, erm, generously allowed an extension to 12 April because the shambles in Parliament was so obvious.

In the absence of any other very significant developments, 12 April is indeed the crunch day when the UK will crash out of the EU with no deal at all.

All bets are off at this stage (well, I'm sure the bookies are having a field day, but I mean politically). Unless you want to wager on continuing chaos:

"Fuck knows, I'm past caring, it's like the living dead in here."

[BumRushDaShow]

7. Okay thanks!

I know there were dates associated with Article 50 but then a couple of alternate date offers that were dependent on what Parliament did (including this latest vote) were suddenly added to the mix. I know May had originally floated the possibility for an extended delay (even beyond June) but was obviously shamed out of that by her party and was smacked by the EU membership for even considering that (especially old nemesis France).

[Denzil_DC]

10. A further extension to June and beyond is still a possibility.

It depends on what happens in Parliament (a general election or second referendum aren't out of the question) and how the EU's leaders are feeling about it all by this stage.

In that event, the UK would have to participate in the upcoming EU elections, which would be fun. Who knows, people might actually pay them some attention and vote in significant numbers for a change? (The rise of UKIP through election of its MEPs has largely been because low turnout gave them an opening to squeeze through.)

[BumRushDaShow]

13. Was just reading the LBN thread on an Independent party

being formed (Change UK) - https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142294966

Will be interesting to see if today's votes accelerate membership in any of the Indie parties.

[Denzil_DC]

19. I could be wrong, but I think they're a bit of a red herring.

The group's headquarters is in an office above a Wetherspoons chain pub. Wetherspoons is owned by Tim Martin, an outspoken arch-Brexiter, though this in itself doesn't necessarily indicate anything.

They caused a bit of a splash with their initial influx of MPs, but that very soon petered out and there have been none since. Their spokesperson (not leader, at the moment at least) is Chuka Umunna, and a number of Labour MPs can't stand him, which may have hampered their growth (and been part of the reason for his defection, having hit the end stops within the Labour Party), some others having resigned the party whips but not joined.

Their funding so far hasn't been transparent (that will have to change if their registration is successful), initially funded by the some of the defector MPs from existing parties, though they claim many small donors (accountability isn't helped by the fact donations can be channeled through The Independent Group (TIG) Ltd, previously named Gemini A Ltd), but one major donor has been Jeremy Isaacs, a City of London banker who's donated over £500,000 to the Tory Party since 2006.

Today they've applied to register as a political party in anticipation of possible EU elections.

Because of the UK's electoral system, the track record of small parties in gaining UK Parliament seats has not been good, no matter what share of the vote they might gain. Polling on the Independent Group's popularity so far has been confusing because it relies a percentage of respondents, whereas they have nowhere near the number of candidates to be able to stand in enough seats to break through in necessarily any, let alone a significant number, and there seems to have been the assumption at least some may stand in their current seats, which is by no means certain, and in the past hasn't worked out well for party defectors - they tend to overestimate their personal vote.

The EU elections, if the UK does participate, are even harder to predict.

[BumRushDaShow]

20. I see this as

folks jockeying for position to try appear strong enough as a back bencher to help either party try to cobble together enough of a coalition to reach the majority for what will most likely be a new government election (at some point). I wouldn't be surprised if others try to do the same!

[cstanleytech]

2. The more I read about this the odder it sounds as their leadership knows Brexit will likely

hurt the majority of its citizens and yet they seem determined to stay on this course?

[edhopper]

9. Yeah

it's like they are Republicans or something.

[cstanleytech]

11. That or Putin has something on them as well like he has on the Republicans.

The unanswered question is though is what could be so bad that it would force so many of them to be willing to screw so many of their own people.

[edhopper]

12. The voters in their districts support Brexit

like Republicans here. The will screw their country to keep their positions.

[FarPoint]

18. So help me out here...

I lack insight into this overall..but sense the Briexit is a bad move....so, why the Protesters?

[edhopper]

25. You mean this last weekend?

The majority in the UK don't support Brexit.
But in the Tories individual districts they do.
It's the same as why Republicans here don't oppose Trump.

[FarPoint]

27. That was the feeling I was getting....

Brexit folks used same deceptive tactics like trumpster republicans to force their desires.....I think there is a movie on HBO about this...I may try and watch it to learn more. So, the British are suffering overall just like Americans in many ways...

Thanks...

[edhopper]

28. Yes

Cambridge Analytics, which helped Trump/Putin also worked on Brexit.

[forgotmylogin]

17. Boy, she's just going to keep voting on this until something new happens?

Isn't repeating the same behavior in hope of a different outcome the definition of insanity?

[efhmc]

3. Since it was once more was defeated, I just heard a call for her immediate resignation.

on BBC.

[Soph0571]

15. The vultures will be out on mass

She will be out before the weekend is out IMO

However that is not going to solve any problems for the country
It may bring about an election that only 12% want at the moment
It may collapse the government
We may end up as a far right tool as PM leading a no brexit fall off the cliff and in charge of any future trade deal. At that point game over for Britain.

[efhmc]

31. I was wondering how it would change anything. It was interesting hearing the

proceeding live on BBC.

[Greybnk48]

6. Isn't it true that the majority of citizens want to stay in the EU?

This is probably a monumentally stupid question. If so, sorry.

Can they opt to just end Brexit all together? Isn't that what most people want?

[BumRushDaShow]

8. Parliament refuses to have a new referendum on it

and even then, I keep seeing mention that much of this drama was "non-binding" (including, the referendum).

This is truly a huge show of brinkmanship and IMHO, may foretell what will be happening here this coming year as the investigations ramp up (just like Brexit foretold the results of the 2016 election).

[Lonestarblue]

21. A responsible government would invalidate the nonbinding referendum.

The referendum was not like an election, but Parliament and May swore to support the “will of the people.” Unfortunately, the people who voted chose to leave because of propaganda about how the UK needed to control their borders and stop immigrants from changing their culture (sound familiar?). Neither Scotland nor Northern Ireland voted for “Leave,” and if a Brexit deal ever goes through, both are likely to hold referendums to decide whether to leave the UK, making GB even smaller and favorable trade deals even more difficult to achieve.

I’m certainly not an expert, but it’s been my sense that the people favoring Brexit thought they could leave the EU and avoid having to live under EU rules and pay to support EU policies, especially on immigration and the freedom of movement within EU countries, but keep the favorable trade advantages of being part of the third largest trading bloc in the world (after the US and China). So far, the UK has managed to negotiate trade deals with only 7 of the 69 countries that have preferential free trade deals with the EU. Without such preferential trade terms, the hit to the UK economy could be severe. Also, some financial businesses have already left the UK because they need the full EU market. The UK appears to have the same sort of feckless government that we see in our Republican Congress, where they’re willing to stoke resentments and see the country go to hell so long as they stay in power.

If you’re interested in more information on trade, here’s a link to a Guardian article.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/13/brexit-uk-trade-deals-eu

[BumRushDaShow]

23. They have a group within the Tories

who are extremists like the teabaggers within the GOP. And May is in the John Boehner position.

Maybe over these next 2 weeks they will stop grandstanding and really think long and hard (especially since there has been rumblings about Ireland and the "backstop" negotiations involving N. Ireland, as well as buzz about Scotland considering an attempt at going independent again).

[Soph0571]

14. The majority want to stay in - but without a second referendum not sure this is possible

HOWEVER it is not all doom and gloom - Mays deal being voted down means that we will probably get an extension before exit. The EU elections are in May and if we are to stand people - there is no way that the EU will agree to a Brexit date while that Parliament is still sitting. So either we crash out in 2 weeks - which is not going to happen - Parliament is very clear on that - or we get to stay, hopefully, for up to 5 years. Kicking the exit date into the long grass..... at that point there would need to be another referendum cause the last one was so long ago and I would hazard a guess that a lot of leavers would not show out again (a good few may well be dead through old age) and the I do not think anyone would want to see the divisions that the last three years have created. Of course the right wing wankers will create... but hey ho!

Let us see but I am feeling a tad more hopeful that I have in a while that this nonsense will be stopped.

[barbtries]

16. shouldn't she resign now?

i follow the story loosely, but it seems she does not have a coalition.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

22. I honestly have trouble following these votes.

If I understand correctly, they turn down every possible option: stay, go, new referendum, all of them are rejected.

It does seem as if many MPs are living in a fantasy world of getting a Brexit on their own terms, which I seriously doubt will happen. Britain needs the EU more than the EU needs Britain.

I also wouldn't be surprised if a break with the EU results in Northern Ireland joining the Republic, and Scotland going it's own way, as those two countries actually voted to stay.

[Denzil_DC]

30. If you're talking about the indicative votes from Thursday,

there was no real expectation of a resounding win for any of them.

You could look on them as an opinion poll of MPs to see what the major points of difference and agreement might be, and therefore what courses of action might be worth pursuing on Monday, when another round of indicative votes is scheduled.

This is actually the most joined-up and adult approach to the whole issue since Article 50 was triggered, and messy as it is, it's the most functional Parliament has been since then.

The shame of it is that May is utterly incapable of relating to anybody else's ideas and being at all flexible. She chose to interpret a broad non-binding vote to leave the EU as meaning that "freedom of movement" must end (this is her main obsession - but bear in mind that within the EU "freedom of movement" isn't absolute anyway), and as a consequence the UK would be unable to remain in or agree to any treaty with the EU that hinged on that as part of the "four freedoms" of movement of goods, services, capital and labour. Those red lines are what have led to the stumbling block of the Northern Ireland "backstop" and most of the other complications that were entirely foreseeable.

So here we are, nearly three years after the referendum, and only now are efforts being made to figure out what the majority of MPs might agree to as a way forward.

It's completely arse about face. It's the sort of inquiry and negotiation that should have happened before Article 50 was triggered. But at least it's happening now.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

32. Thank you for that.

It's very helpful.

As someone whose four grandparents came from Ireland, I'd love to see the island united again. And not so secretly wish Scotland, and perhaps Wales, would likewise separate.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

24. What a clusterfuck that's turning out to be.

[Iliyah]

26. Majority of the people were duped into voting for this.

RWers lies to them and had false information. Now majority of the people do not want this.

[Baclava]

29. So she will stay, forever, said she'd leave when it passes right?

Will the EU just kick them out anyway now?