Ralph Nader Says Obama Is A 'War Criminal' Who Has Been 'More Aggressive' Than George W. Bush

[onehandle]

Source: Huffington Post

Ralph Nader has called President Barack Obama a "war criminal" whose military and foreign policies have been worse than that of his predecessor George W. Bush.

In an interview with Politico, the former presidential candidate and leftist political activist said that Obama's policies have been "more aggressive" and "more illegal worldwide" compared to Bush's.

“He’s gone beyond George W. Bush in drones, for example. He thinks the world is his plate, that national sovereignties mean nothing, drones can go anywhere,” Nader told Politico.

But what seems to be even more lamentable to Nader is that Obama has been capable of so much more than he has managed to achieve.


Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/25/ralph-nader-says-obama-is-war-criminal-worse-than-george-bush_n_1914154.html

---

Fuck you, Ralph. You are part of the three components that elected Bush.

It. Was. Your. Fault.

Fuck you.

[barbtries]

33. other than the grotesque hyperbole

as illustrated by the phrase "worse than bush"?

[spirit-soul]

97. The only thing grotesque is that a Democrat is doing this.

I really am horrified that so many people on here are villifying Nadar simply because he criticized Obama. And the kneejerk defense of Obama's military adventures is extremely disheartening and frightening. Because it appears that he can do no wrong. What a dangerous mindset that is...

[naaman fletcher]

102. This is why there is never any real change

People always back their guy on the the theory that the other guy is worse. What you wind up is a campaign between people who believe in illegal torture and murder, despite the fact that most of the country is against that.

[Kelvin Mace]

111. Amen!

Can't seem to get that point across. When I try I am accused of being a troll/Romney supporter/traitor, etc.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

152. So true...

...party over principle is about as wrongheaded as wrongheaded gets, but my experience here with threads desinged to stampede the herd, such as this one, is that the hard, ugly, inconvenient truths get thoroughly trampled down.

[defacto7]

103. He's not criticising Obama, he's soapboxing his platform and overstating

his opinion to promote misinformation.

That is what enrages us. It's the politics money and control. Just because he has a history with the dems does not make his false pretence acceptable.

Lies are lies period.


BTW, welcome to DU. I disagree with you, but your addition to the forum is welcome.

[barbtries]

104. that is not what it is.

"worse than Bush"?? really? how many wars has Obama started?
i am not defending drone attacks by the way. i have written to the president expressing disappointment in his policies as well. now is not the time.

now is not the time to try to kneecap the president. the election is around the corner and it's fucking important. nader chooses now to say this shit?

nader's motives are pretty fucking suspect if you ask me, based on both the - yes, grotesque! - hyperbole of his charge, and the timing.

[Kelvin Mace]

112. If not now....

i am not defending drone attacks by the way. i have written to the president expressing disappointment in his policies as well. now is not the time.

When is the time? We raised hell while he was doing it, and he will continue to do it after he is re-elected.

Drone strikes are not just immoral, they are absolutely imbecilic. We are attacking Pakistan, a country with a nuclear arsenal, a weak government, and an anti-American military. Every time we murder innocent people with these killer robots, we push the populace to hate us more. Pakistan is the most unstable nuclear power on the planet and its sits right next to India, another nuclear power (and American ally) that is hated even more. We are throwing cigarettes at a gasoline-soaked nuclear powder keg that, when it explodes, will kill tens of millions of people.

Rather morally irresponsible, don't ya think?

[barbtries]

120. after the election.

do you even agree that romney would be a bigger disaster than obama? would you agree that it will be one or the other?

[frylock]

125. but but but there's the midterms!!1

we can't jeopardize those, and then 2016 is just right around the corner.

[Kelvin Mace]

131. Oh, I agree Romney would be a bigger disaster

but that is kind of like saying Ebola is a worse way to die than pancreatic cancer.

The inevitable outcome, however, is the same.

[barbtries]

132. well we can agree to disagree on that.

at least with Obama i still have hope for better days, i'm sorry you don't.

[Kelvin Mace]

147. When you have been kicked to ground a few dozen times,

it gets harder to be optimistic, especially when any positive change is accompanied by six negative ones.

But hey, I would LOVE to be wrong. And if I am, I'll own up to it.

BTW, where in NC are you? I am in High Point.

[barbtries]

149. i'm in the triangle

live in raleigh work in chapel hill.

maybe you should try moving out this way. i don't know your skills but biotech is a good industry to be in if you do...

i guess for me i got kicked to ground too many times and finally decided it would not own me. i am in NC because my home (LA) got too expensive. i'm homesick but it's proved a good move in many ways.

i've worked in a couple of places that lived and died on how they did at High Point!

[Kelvin Mace]

150. Furniture Market, eh?

And now they have one out in Vegas, which makes it hard for us to compete with gambling and legalized prostitution.

I currently work for my father-in-law's company, a tool and die shop, one of those rare things, and American company that still MAKES things. I had run my own publishing company until 2008, but it finally succumbed to the Great Recession.

Unfortunately, no biotech skills, but so far the company has weathered the last four years and is starting to turn around. And, I am finally moving from no-brainer work back into my area of expertise, computers.

How long have you been in NC?

I came here in '79 from Virginia to go to UNC-G, but had to quit to become my sister's legal guardian when I was 20 (she was 15, long story). Met my wife at college, married in '85, and have been in the Triad ever since.

[barbtries]

151. i drove out here in 2007

left LA on 9-29 and got to our new home on 10-3. my 15-year-old son, 2 cats and a chihuahua and everything we could fit into and on top of a 1994 Ford Escort wagon.
by November 1 i had landed the job i still have. my son's at ECU doing very well.
i said at the time it's an adventure! and it has been. i've gained a ton of weight but other than that and the homesickness (missing my oldest son and my grandchildren especially) it's been pretty much all good.

the irony of it is that i had to move to NC to make enough money to live in los angeles. ironic, huh? i'd never even heard of biotech before i lucked into this job. oh well, so it goes.

i'm glad things are turning for you. see? they do that!

[Kelvin Mace]

154. You certainly picked the most liberal enclave

in the state.

Cross country in a 94 Escort? Wow, that was brave. And kids and grandkids? Full plate!

No children here, but a small legion of critters we call the "four-footed mafia". Rescued and abandoned cats and dogs, with a bunny and the occasional rehab patient (a goose, possum, squirrel or turtle healing from body work).

I've been out to LA and San Diego a couple of times (e-voting activism and ComicCon), but I love rain to much to be comfortable in either place, plus I am more of a cold-weather person (not so's you'd notice much cold weather since you arrived)..

At least if you have a good job here, the cost of living is so much lower that you can live better than you would on the same salary in California.

How did you come to pick NC?

[barbtries]

156. i had just gotten notice

that my rent was being raised $250/month. i was already working half the month JUST to pay the rent. i knew i had to move, but where i could afford to move to? well i wouldn't be comfortable letting my son walk out the door because it's a murder a day out there.

i had a friend who had moved to NC after she lost her home in FL due to Hurricane Ivan. so, i was at work and was helping a customer who happened to be in Cary, NC. she was very happy with how i had handled her issue and said, "if i could get an employee like you..."

that was where the thought was born. i checked out rents online. over the next couple months as the eviction was proceeding i got rid of what i could, put the rest in storage...my son gave me the car for my birthday that year and that sealed the deal. we were moving to NC. and that's just what we did.

we abandoned our apt where we'd lived for 10 years about two days ahead of the marshals. as i was going through stuff whenever i found a rent receipt, i just left it in the middle of the living room.

sort of a grapes of wrath in the opposite direction. but the trip was like an omen of good things to come: the car ran like a top the entire way. no flat tires. no breakdowns, or break-ins. no tickets. no crashes, not even a close call. no RAIN. it literally never rained on us until we were in TN and then it was just for a minute. we took one side trip on the way, to MO to visit a lifelong friend who had moved there several years previously. they'd had a massive thunderstorm the day before we got there and had another one the day after we left. but for us it was clear skies all the way.

and you're right, we do enjoy a higher standard of living here because the money goes much further. my rent is STILL $200 less than it was in CA, and $450 less than it was going to be. it's a good thing too, because i get to take vacations and would probably be very sad otherwise. i can bring my grandsons out here during the summer. this year we spent their spring break in DC it was just fabulous.

so, i've gone on and on. do you ever get squirrels?

[frylock]

129. there will be a 3-minute window on 11/7/2012

[Scairp]

134. Well then

By all means let's have President Richy Rich instead. That'll fix that moral issue you have with Obama won't it?

[Kelvin Mace]

145. Having Romney in office

would at least unify this board like it was for eight years of Bush. Then things like domestic spying, civil rights violations, torture. murder and war crimes would be topics of outrage rather than brushed aside for the sake of expediency.

[Kelvin Mace]

106. sadly, this is a comon event here

I just endured a blistering assault in a 500+ post thread for having the audacity to have the "wrong reason" for voting for Obama.

Not only must I keep critical remarks about Obama to myself, but I am only supposed to vote for him for approved reasons.

[Scairp]

137. I'm sure it's not personal

Except that the idea of a Romney presidency is very scary to everyone here that there is a deep feeling that we must pull together, in spite of any reservations about a continued Obama presidency. He hasn't done everything right by any means, but no president does. I can put up with almost any mistake or policy issue I disagree with, what I cannot put up with is a President Romney. I really dislike that guy, he makes me very uncomfortable.

[Kelvin Mace]

144. I try not to take it personal

but sometimes it's kind of hard when the comments/criticisms are quite personal.

I agree people are scared, but to me, that more troubling. We are in our current mess because of a non-stop series of decisions based on fear.

[Kelvin Mace]

109. Agreed,

I would have said "as bad as Bush". Though some view the expansion of Bush policies as "worse".

[AAO]

64. Did Obama start 2 wars? I think ol' Ralph is gettnig senile. n/t

[2ndAmForComputers]

159. Sometimes the efforts to "think up an username them libruls will like" are hilarious.

[Xipe Totec]

2. Just because he comes out of left field, doesn't make him left wing. nt

[a geek named Bob]

3. Ralph Nader...boldly sending a message to everyone...

that message? He doesn't care what happens, as long as he's in the limelight.

[defacto7]

105. yep, that's Ralph.

[obamanut2012]

4. I never have and never will blame Nader for Bush being elected

I do blame him for trying to sabotage Obama and the election right now. He needs to stfu and quite being such an attention monger. The Green Party is much better served and represented by Jill Stein.

Four more years of Obama/Biden!

[StopTheNeoCons]

62. +1...Nadir (SP), STFU....nt

[goclark]

146. Ditto ~ Obama all the way!

It surprises me that when given a choice of Obama or Rmoney, some on "our side" want to pick apart the candidate that probably does 85% of what they would like for America.

The other side would only care about the 1 %

We must have some 1 %'s on this discussion.

[Itchinjim]

5. You enabled the war criminal Bush.

Fuck you Ralph.

[kysrsoze]

59. Totally agree. I guess the potential for WWIII is a better alternative.

He's a self-aggrandizing ass, who only pokes his head out of his hole at election time. Let's play Nader Whack-a-Mole.

[harmonicon]

119. How did he do that?

Please explain.

[bowens43]

6. Haven't we learned by now that Nader is a freaking idiot?

seriously , who cares what this nut job has to say?

[Major Nikon]

51. Evidently some haven't

...and at this point I think Nader could go on a drunken rant and admit he's an egocentric boil on the Democratic party's ass and they still won't learn it. That's what happens when your ideology trumps your common sense.

[leftyohiolib]

7. yeah it's about that time - every 4 years this jackass comes out of his hidy-hole to bash the

democratic party's nominee. stfu nader

[Raine1967]

27. I was going to say the same thing. Must be that year again.... n/t

[susanr516]

53. Yep

Right on cue, here comes Nader, spouting his "purist" bs.

[SidDithers]

8. Fuck Ralph Nader...nt

Sid

[Bucky]

29. Ha. I like how your sig file is the perfect response to your subject line.

[Tarheel_Dem]

110. Ditto!

Nader/Nader 2012!!!

[Demonaut]

9. go back to your hole....you're useless

[begin_within]

10. Nader haters:

Have you actually asked anyone who voted for Nader in 2000 why they did?
Especially any of the 97,421 people in Florida who voted for Nader in 2000?

[Demonaut]

13. no, it's never been discussed here ...........ever

[Javaman]

15. Oh no, here we go again.

[Bucky]

26. Wait a minute... is that the same Ralph Nader?

Whoa, bowl me over with a feather.

[AAO]

68. Yes, and their answers were basically nonsense when they ended up electing Bush. n/t

[thucythucy]

71. Yup!

He voted Nader because, "As bad as Bush might be" we have to build a third party, and Nader will get 5% of the vote and thus be eligible for federal campaign funds, and so "In 2004 we'll have a Green Party president, by 2008 at the latest." Besides, everyone knew Bush was an idiot and "would never be able to win a second term." So what harm could he do?

Other friends said they didn't see ANY difference between Gore and Bush, especially on the environment, because Ralph had called Gore a "faux environmentalist." This was especially important for a friend of mine who was a gun owner, was worried about Gore's pro-gun control stance, but was also an environmentalist. He WOULD have voted for Gore, except, and this is a direct quote as well as I can remember it, "If RALPH NADER says there's no difference between Bush and Gore on the environment, then I have to go with Bush." Bush being the only "pro-gun" candidate he could trust. I argued with him till I was blue in the face, but his two big issues were environment and gun control, and so Nader's comments tipped him to Bush.

I had huge fights with progressive friends about this. I saw defeating Bush/Cheney as THE number one priority of every progressive in the country, and was enormously frightened about what would happen when the GOP controlled all three branches of government. As it turned out, it was worse than even I expected.

As for the OP, Nader really equates the drone attacks in Afghanistan/Pakistan, as deadly as those have been, with INVADING Iraq, killing tens if not hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians, and driving two million people, mostly women and children out of their homes? Really?

The whole point of Ralph speaking up now is to get more attention for Ralph, no matter what the consequences to the country. Because--and let's be clear about this--there is a WORLD of difference between Obama/Biden and Romney/Ryan, and anyone trying to blur those distinctions is ignorant at best and irresponsible at worst.

To conclude: I agree with many of the comments on this thread, to wit: Fuck Nader, the absolute epitome of the reactionary GOP's useful idiot.

[mac56]

86. This.

[Frank Cannon]

139. I voted for Nader in 2000.

For all of the reasons you presented in your first paragraph. I also lived in a "safe" blue state at the time (which did give its electors to Gore) and so I saw no harm at the time in trying to get a third party going.

I had no idea what a fucking nightmare would result.

I was younger and more naive then. I am wiser now. The stakes are higher. Fuck Ralph Nader.

[Freddie Stubbs]

113. I have spoken to several who said that they didn't believe that Bush had a chance of being elected

[joshcryer]

161. Privilege.

I was a poor young man when Gore had his election stolen. First and last time I voted until Obama. (Yes, I admit I didn't vote for Kerry but I was very disillusioned and lived in a dark red state so it didn't matter; was a Deaniac.)

[Odin2005]

11. Fuck you, Nader!

[Proletariatprincess]

12. As usual, Ralph is absolutely correct...

and as usual, partisanship makes people blind to the truth and ugly in their descent.
I expect now to be abused here on DU for my defense of Ralph Nader. He is a modern day Cassandra and now one liked her either.

[harun]

17. I won't bash you, because I don't bash the truth, even if it isn't what I want to hear.

[AlbertCat]

31. As usual, Ralph is absolutely correct...

Not absotutely.... Obama is NOT worse than Bush.... and you know it.

And how is this HELPFUL?

[Major Nikon]

67. Let's assume this is true

Let's assume that every single thing Ralph Nader says is the absolute gospel and is beyond debate. What is different today than a year ago, or two years ago? The difference was virtually nobody was sticking a microphone in Nader's face asking him what he thought. The reason anyone is sticking a microphone in Ralph Nader's face right now is not because of the strength of his message, but rather because they know he is allowing himself to be used as a tool by the media and the GOP. So it really has nothing to do with 'ugly truths' and a lot more to do with Nader being an asshole.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

101. Sadly, it is true...

...which has caused folks like me a great deal of pain in trying to rationalize a vote for him. O's continuation of some of the worst Bush transgressions has been the biggest disappointment for me and the hardest to forgive; it's also what pushed me to the Greens after 40 years as a staunch Democrat.

[defacto7]

108. Nope, he's not.

He can have an opinion, you can have an opinion, but to overstate only to make it pop out in the media like a bursting boil is just asinine. But that's what he does and is.

I don't for a moment believe anyone who screams bullshit from the media to get attention. Put that together with his preponderance for personal aggrandizement and you have a nice argument for annulment of his bully pulpit.

[Jester Messiah]

14. Oh FFS shut up, you whiny loser.

We don't need another Florida 2000. Crawl back in your hole.

[G_j]

16. and the intellectual heavyweights arrive on time

to explore new and creative uses of the word "fuck".

[pocoloco]

47. Don't be too hard on them...

it will take them most of the day to get their panties out of a wad!

[Butterbean]

136. I'd like to steal that line from you for later use if you don't mind. LMAO!

[meegbear]

18. Unsafe At Any Speed

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. That Clown Is Like Madonna Without The Capacity To Entertain

He will do anything for attention.

[Bucky]

20. His talent for hyperbole is noteworthy.

I don't hate him, but I've seen him put his talents to better use.

He comes from a good place, but he's not exactly taking a balanced approach to how we maintain an empire.

[olddad56]

21. Nader is a 'has been' who is bitter because he had a chance to make a difference and blew it.

When had the power to organize consumers and use the collective power of millions of people to stand up to the corporations, he didn't. Now when he is irrelevant, he wants to criticize the Obama administration. He has been reduced to a distraction.

[PatrynXX]

22. Ralph was fun once but he's acting like a war criminal of late

like Mittens, he's senile

[Atman]

23. AND he's soft on defense, according to the righties.

It's time for Ralph's quadrennial foray into the limelight. Except that his bulb has long since burned out.

[longship]

24. Biggest douche in the universe!

Fuck you, Ralph Nader!

[AlbertCat]

25. Oh shut up Ralph.....

Initiating a policy of preemptive strikes

Starting 2 wars

ALLOWED 9-11 to happen

Yeah Obama is the worst!

[Hubert Flottz]

28. Raaaaaaaaaaalph where'd you park that Buuuuuuuuuuick.

Just thinking about Raaaaaaaaaaaaalph makes me go looking for Raaaaaaaaaaaalph...I wish somebody would hold my hair!

[barbtries]

30. fucking absurd.

two WARS?! two WARS Nader.

[Renew Deal]

32. Nader made Bush possible

I hope the guilt of helping Bush get elected eats at him and everyone else that voted for Nader. I suspect it does.

[harmonicon]

121. Just how did he do that?

How many people voted for Nader compared to Bush? I remember that Bush didn't get the popular vote, but I seem to remember that Nader didn't fucking get more votes than Gore. Was it Nader who designed the electoral college? Was it Nader who told Scalia not to recuse himself from the case? What the fuck did Nader do other than participate in the democratic process?

You have no argument here.

[George II]

34. He should talk???

Why does anyone even interview him any more? Politico? Sure, they have that hidden right-wing agenda anyway.

As you say at the bottom of your post, were it not for him and his fucked up ego we never would have had two wars, the WTC would still be standing, the recession would never have happened and we'd be enjoying the most properous era since our inception.

He has the blood of tens of thousands of people on his hands.

He's irrelevant in this society, he should just go crawl into a hole and stay there.

[DemzRock]

35. Since 2000, Nader has made himself part of the problem not the solution! n/t

[Iggo]

36. Oh jeez. Here they come.

I was gonna simply type "Wedge Politics 101" again, but...oh hey, I guess I did!

[JTFrog]

37. I googled Nader says Bush is a war criminal.

Didn't get any hits.

But this one turned up:

"Ralph Goes Rogue: Nader Gives Sarah Palin Props For Populist Speech"

JFC.

Enough said.

[sweetloukillbot]

74. I also vividly remember watching him on CNN calling Obama an Uncle Tom on election night.

The guy's a racist to boot.

[JTFrog]

85. Yep, even FOX called him out on it.

"Is he going to be Uncle Sam or Uncle Tom?"

[joshcryer]

162. Wow, nice find.

[Champion Jack]

38. Ralph who?

[still_one]

39. ralph who? Does anyone, except the few loyal devotees care what this has been thinks? /nt

[BootinUp]

40. and now for my annual Fuck Ralph Nader Post

FUCK RALPH NADER!

[Botany]

41. thanx a lot for the gulf oil spill ralph

no florida 2000 = no bush v gore = no bush/Cheney admin =no dick cheney energy task force meetings =
no energy meetings = no removing regulations on deep water rigs = not having to have emergency
sonic kill switches that close down the well in an emergency = no 2010 gulf oil spill

[OnyxCollie]

57. Eleven people died.

Anyone in jail for that? Anyone?

Fuck Nader's Department of Justice!

[BeyondGeography]

42. No difference between Bush and Gore

[Frank Cannon]

43. Biggest attention whore on the planet.

Makes Kim Kardashian look like a shrinking violet.

Whatever you say, Ralph. Like Mitt Romney is a gentle peace dove, asshole.

[Iliyah]

44. Two wars under W and well over 100,000 dead, et al.,

and not for terrorist but for "oil"? As a pro-Obama, I don't like the drones, seek and destroy because the innocents do die, but unfortunately from what has been explained to me by my Marine husband, its ugly but sometimes necessary. I guess with Nader, we could just wait until we are attacked again. Terrorist right now are planning and will continue to plan attacks against America and their allies any mean necessary. Peace, talk, I'm all for it but there are forces out there that just hate us regardless and that started a long time ago. We are in a technological and biological warfare world, if religion, money and the powerful could come together for the betterment of the world I'm totally for it but its for not. Human beings are the "ultimate predator" which I learned in science class and we seem like we hate more than love. We are more greedy than share, et al.,

That said, I pray for better solutions and as Rodney King said "Why can't we all get along"

Then you have the GOP religious crazies who are beating the war drums.

[NOLALady]

45. I wonder

if he believes Rmoney will end the war, or become more "aggressive" than W.

[Democat]

46. Republicans must love Ralph Nader

He's been helping them for more than a decade now.

[mac56]

49. Oh, thank God we've finally heard from Ralph.

He's like the middle-aged guy in every small-town bar: sitting in the corner alone, and now and then monologuing loudly about how he coulda won the Homecoming game back in '72 if the coach had just put him in. Sad really.

[Kolesar]

76. Nothing fires up DU like a Ralph Nader thread

It has been a tradition here since 2001.

[TahitiNut]

50. No election season would be complete on DU without a Nader-2-minute-hate.

Yes... I've been around THAT long.

[progressoid]

138. I'll reserve judgement until I know his position on breast feeding at the Olive Garden.

[TahitiNut]

142. Uh-oh ... you had to do it, huh?

How about smoking while breast-feeding at the Olive Garden?

[progressoid]

143. Smoking while breast-feeding at the Olive Garden...

with your pitbull.

[joshcryer]

163. So have I. And I'll reject said commentary from the Ministry of Truth.

Nader isn't without his own Orwellian doublespeak.

[tridim]

52. Off the deep end, and has been ever since I've known his name.

Just because he says a correct thing every 10 years or so doesn't make him any less of a dumbass.

[moobu2]

54. Romney's check must have just cleared n/t

[heaven05]

55. he

should be put out to pasture. All leaders of countries could be characterized as war criminals. Is our President a war criminal to try to keep us safe based on information we will never be privy to. Is he a war criminal to have killed a direct threat to the United States? Reality is that there are people willing to kill a lot of innocent americans for a myriad of reason. Some justified and some not. But the killing of citizens on the street is not the way to settle grievances . Our world is complicated and to bring that fact down to a statement that says what Nader said about President Obama is naive at best. The better part of me thinks that if we do find out about why the drones are flying, why gitmo has not closed and the rest of the litany of complaint about broken promises, there will have not been lies of the magnitude that sent us into Iraq. Period. Send the guy in this photo out to pasture. Let him graze till his heart is content, but keep him out the news. And don't get me wrong. I never bought a Corvair!

[Jackpine Radical]

56. Ralph Nader, the broad-gauge Concern Troll.

Thanks, Ralphie. Things would be ever so much better in the world if we all get into a hissyfit and un-elect Obama.

[ButterflyBlood]

58. FUCK OFF RALPH

GO FUCK YOURSELF, SHUT UP, AND GO AWAY FOREVER.

[kathman-duzi]

60. Well this does sound lik sour grapes from Ralph "get off my lawn Nader" n/t

[bamacrat]

61. Fuck that man.

He cries and bitches about the problem with our parties but all he does is fuck our system up. IMO he is just as responsible as W is for us being where we are now. Had this ghostly skin bag not ran in 2000 we would have had Gore. True we probably wouldnt have Obama now but we would be in a much better situation. I would give up Obama ever being President to have never have had Bush.

[Baitball Blogger]

63. I really wish he would have stuck to protecting consumers.

[jeff47]

65. Romney's check must have cleared. (nt)

[FailureToCommunicate]

66. Hey Ralph, here is someone who wants to know what you think:

[DFW]

69. Ralph Nader has been scowling for over 12 years.

He can spin it any way he wants. The fact is, if he had pulled out of the 2000 race a month or two before the election, having made his point, It would have been president Al Gore, with no Iraq invasion, no "Justices" Roberts or Alito, no Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, no Condi Rice, no Paul Wolfowitz and possibly even no 9-11.

Ralph Nader in 2000 was on a ego trip that had nothing to do with the well-being of the country or its inhabitants. Now, he is trying to prolong his fame (and our agony). I'm grateful for what he did as a consumer advocate. I'll never forgive him ro forget what he did in 2000. He's as responsible for the second Bush presidency as Jeb Bush, Katherine Harris, Sandra Day O'Connor and Karl Rove. The wars Nader is whining about are his babies. Nothing he has to say about them will resonate with me.

[joelz]

70. The way I

understand international law Ralph is right its hard to argue facts

[OnyxCollie]

73. It is hard to argue facts.

That's why they are absent among the Nader haters.

Ad hominem's aplenty; facts, not so much.

[harmonicon]

122. Many people don't want to face harsh truths.

It's easier just to tell Mr. Badnews to go away, fuck off, etc.

[closeupready]

72. Kind of like Robert Reich talking about union labor issues.

You can stuff your opinion. Millions have equally merit-worthy opinions, and you helped scuttle Gore's election.

[David__77]

75. And yet, he should still support and vote for Obama.

He says nothing notable - it's the United States.

[liberalmuse]

77. I respect some of the good things this man has done, but...

he can be a bit extreme.

[get the red out]

78. Irrelevance must really hurt

He's becoming just a bitter old man.

[cstanleytech]

79. Hey, back off people.

After all its clear the poor man is ill and needs an MRI done to find out how extensive the brain damage, afterall thats clearly the only reason he could be spewing forth such complete and utter BS and expect most of us to believe it.

[catbyte]

80. Blah blah blah. He may have been relevant in 1967, but not anymore.

Sorry, but Nader is beyond tiresome. Bitch bitch bitch.

[Generic Other]

81. A Nader thread?

Nostalgia!

Flame away!

[Laurajr]

82. quiet now

it's time to be quiet Ralph, be remembered for some of the good things you did for consumers and not this non-sense...now be quiet...thank you.

[truebrit71]

83. Sorry but Ralph lost any shred of cred he had when he said that Al Gore and Dumbya were the same...

...He couldn't have been more wrong...

[wordpix]

84. +1000 and when he threw the 2000 election to *

[SaveAmerica]

87. Besa mi culo Ralphie Boyee!!

[Z_California]

88. We will have some things to talk about....

....starting in mid-November. Until then, go away Ralph.

[The Second Stone]

89. So there is a difference Ralphie?

Republicans start illegal wars, but Democrats at least fight those left over wars correctly?

The difference between Ralph Nader and Sara Palin is that Sara is cute.

[eringer]

90. Why did God take Andy Williams instead of this weasel?

He he is with his good friend, Ron Paul:

[onehandle]

91. Two Destructive Radical Sides Of A Wooden Nickel. nt

[Comrade Grumpy]

92. A thread full of hate and the only factual post gets censored. Nice.

Is everybody proud of themselvs for pecking out "Fuck Nader"? Ooh, the groupthink is strong with this one.

[Proletariatprincess]

98. good observation, Comrade...

I have to keep reminding myself that this is DU with a capital D. I used to think it was the other kind of democratic.

[joshcryer]

164. There are two hidden posts. I see few facts in the one you are presumably alluding to.

The post, edited a bit for clarity to show how out of touch it is:

Who signed the NDAA? Who supports indefinite detention?

Obama signed a Bush-esque signing statement that promises he won't use it for American Citizens.

Who carries out targeted assassinations from a kill list? Who has increased drone strikes?

Which has led to less than 5k dead civilians, compared to Bush's over 1 million dead civilians. And who is more aggressive? I can't believe I'm having to point this out because I do not advocate drone strikes. But anyone who can read the studies and do the math can see who is more murderous.

Just doing the raw numbers it's clear that the allegations by Nader are misplaced nonsense. The rest of the stuff (surveillance state, etc) is not what Nader was alluding to.

[olddad56]

93. Ralph, you have become the Corvair of politics.

[JoeyT]

94. My suggestion for dealing with this:

Ignore him like we do the rest of the cranks.

GD is slam full of Nader threads right now. Why? Attention is what he's after and we're giving it to him. This really ought to fall under "Don't feed the trolls".

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

95. He ain't dead yet?!??!

[Tippy]

96. Nader....has been a spoiler one time to many

Took a lot of time but the man is certifiably insane...Instead Crying about the mess he helped get us into. He should be praying for forgivness....

[white_wolf]

99. Nader tells the truth, DU bashes him. This is getting old.

Seriously, blame the Democratic Party for being nothing more than corporate sellouts, not Nader for calling them out on it.

[olddad56]

114. worse than Bush. you think that is the truth?

[limpyhobbler]

128. It's just part of the ongoing purge of progressive ideas from the Democratic Party.

[NICO9000]

100. Nobody cares about him anymore

Irrelevant to the national discourse at this point.

[Kelvin Mace]

107. Sorry, but no,

you can't lay this at Ralph's feet.

If Gore version 2002 had run instead of Gore version 2000, Nader would have had no reason to run, and Gore would have trounced Bush solidly.

Also, the Dems refused to even DISCUSS impeaching the Scalia Five after their over throw of a democratically elected president.

As long as people keep making excuses for the Vichy Dems in the party, the party will continue its lurch to the right.

While I will not go so far as to call Obama a war criminal, he has certainly failed to prosecute ANYONE for war crimes, despite overwhelming evidence.

Nader's remark is over the top. Blame him for that, not for 2000.

[harmonicon]

123. Well said!!

I'm glad that an adult has entered the room.

[AZ Progressive]

115. Is Nader trying to suppress the liberal vote?

We need as little suppression of the Democratic / Liberal vote as possible right now. The path of Romney is a very dark one.

[xocet]

116. It seems like you were trolled by Politico via The Huffington Post....

The interview is a reasonable discussion with points that may be argued - none of which I intend to discuss here.

More importantly, at no point in the video does Ralph Nader specifically state that President Obama is a "war criminal." He does imply that some of President Obama's actions are illegal, though. It seems that Politico decided that that earlier turn of phrase would achieve the most impact.

[harmonicon]

117. Are you 12 years old?

Nader got Bush elected? How many people voted for Nader compared to those who voted for Bush? I'd fucking blame those who voted for Bush are more responsible, but, guess what?! Bush wasn't even fucking elected! The fucking Supreme Court appointed him.

Crying about people who participate in democracy for ruining democracy is beyond silly, it's pitiful.

[JustAnotherGen]

118. Don't care

He's not relevant.

[McCamy Taylor]

124. Nader is being paid or blackmailed.

[MADem]

126. Fuck that crazy man...and fuck his good buddy, Ron Paul, too! nt

[rock]

127. Oh sweet Lord

and I'm an aetheist.

[Lint Head]

130. Hey Ralph. Give it a rest and retire to STFU Island.

[torotoro]

133. YES, Nader is Correct on the Facts but dude now is not the time to voice it

Nader's facts and conclusions are actually quite sound but coming out now during this GE is not helping. I guess that is why he is pointing it out. I am still voting for Obama but i am very aware of his cosying with the banks and the crazy foreign policy he does. My only motivation is that Romney is far worse and i am curious to see if Obama actually governs as a Left president now that he is re-elected and doesnt have to be pressured to cave to the right so much, or if he continues to govern as center-right which would confirm a lot of people's beliefs that Obama did believe his right actions

[JNelson6563]

135. I haven't read this much stupid in one thread

in an age. How amusing.

Love all the trollies outing themselves.

Julie

[Douglas Carpenter]

140. there is some truth to that, of course. But unless one is willing to practice war crimes - they are

simply not a viable candidate for President in the current political atmosphere of today's America. They would be denounced by the entire establishment of both parties as well as the entire academic establishment and the media as a kook, a crank, and an extremist as well as weak and a threat to national security. As Noam Chomsky put it, "If Nuremberg rules applied - every post World War II American President would have been hung."

[Ash_F]

155. +1

It's sad that it got to this state.

[Thor_MN]

141. Nader is still alive?

Would have figured he be gone by now or on a pureed diet in a home...

[libodem]

148. FUCK NADER!

[NHDEMFORLIFE]

153. A sad sight

This was a man who had the courage to stand up to corporate America when nearly no one else would. He has disintegrated into a sputtering old man who is begging for whatever public attention he can find.

[name not needed]

157. Go home, Ralph. You've done enough damage.

[Megahurtz]

158. Fuck Off, Nader! n/t

[joshcryer]

160. Obama is responsible for maybe 5-10k civilian deaths since he took office.

Bush is responsible for well over a million.

So fuck you Ralph Nader. What a fucking joke.

[Bad_Ronald]

165. Is "Nader" Lebanese for asshole? If not, it should be