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MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 01:52 PM Apr 2020

State Department cables warned of safety issues at Wuhan lab studying bat coronaviruses

Source: Washington post

By: Josh Rogin
14 April 2020


Two years before the novel coronavirus pandemic upended the world, U.S. Embassy officials visited a Chinese research facility in the city of Wuhan several times and sent two official warnings back to Washington about inadequate safety at the lab, which was conducting risky studies on coronaviruses from bats. The cables have fueled discussions inside the U.S. government about whether this or another Wuhan lab was the source of the virus — even though conclusive proof has yet to emerge.

In January 2018, the U.S. Embassy in Beijing took the unusual step of repeatedly sending U.S. science diplomats to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), which had in 2015 become China’s first laboratory to achieve the highest level of international bioresearch safety (known as BSL-4). WIV issued a news release in English about the last of these visits, which occurred on March 27, 2018. The U.S. delegation was led by Jamison Fouss, the consul general in Wuhan, and Rick Switzer, the embassy’s counselor of environment, science, technology and health. Last week, WIV erased that statement from its website, though it remains archived on the Internet.

What the U.S. officials learned during their visits concerned them so much that they dispatched two diplomatic cables categorized as Sensitive But Unclassified back to Washington. The cables warned about safety and management weaknesses at the WIV lab and proposed more attention and help. The first cable, which I obtained, also warns that the lab’s work on bat coronaviruses and their potential human transmission represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic.

The Chinese researchers at WIV were receiving assistance from the Galveston National Laboratory at the University of Texas Medical Branch and other U.S. organizations, but the Chinese requested additional help. The cables argued that the United States should give the Wuhan lab further support, mainly because its research on bat coronaviruses was important but also dangerous.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/



Note, there is a big difference from "created in a lab" vs. "escaped from a lab".

The current thinking of the British government is this "escaped from a lab", for reasons independent of this article. To summarize the British thinking, the bat vector of CV19 is a wood bat not native to the area. The closest habitat is 800 miles away. Wet markets are essentially really gross farmers' markets -- where local people sell local flora and fauna, generally as a part time gig/hobby. It is possible that a wood bat entered into the chain of commerce and ended up there, but that's not the normal course of operation.
17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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State Department cables warned of safety issues at Wuhan lab studying bat coronaviruses (Original Post) MosheFeingold Apr 2020 OP
Plausible Roy Rolling Apr 2020 #1
Don't disagree MosheFeingold Apr 2020 #2
Hey RR DENVERPOPS Apr 2020 #12
Mrs. Oleary's Cow Theory seems far less likely than an instutional failure in a dangerous field IMHO Ford_Prefect Apr 2020 #3
Exactly. Nothing is 100% secure 100% of the time. marble falls Apr 2020 #4
Well MosheFeingold Apr 2020 #8
Uh oh........ SergeStorms Apr 2020 #5
You can't help crazy MosheFeingold Apr 2020 #10
You're probably correct. SergeStorms Apr 2020 #16
Why are these pandemic threatening "wet markets" still able to operate? FailureToCommunicate Apr 2020 #6
i already catsudon Apr 2020 #7
Not made MosheFeingold Apr 2020 #9
i misspoke catsudon Apr 2020 #14
Sorry, I must have confused things with bad writing MosheFeingold Apr 2020 #17
scientests say that it was not made neohippie Apr 2020 #13
That does rather tilt the odds a bit, eh? Ford_Prefect Apr 2020 #15
How many Secretaries of State have we had since then? Mr.Bill Apr 2020 #11

Roy Rolling

(6,917 posts)
1. Plausible
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 02:06 PM
Apr 2020

Cannot be ruled out. Let’s hear more evidence.

That’s the scientific method, unlike the Trump medicine method of “what do you have to lose?”.

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
2. Don't disagree
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 02:10 PM
Apr 2020

I would say it is no less plausible than the wet market theory, if for no reason other than it is an undisputed fact that the bat and the virus were both at the lab -- while the wet market theory has no evidence of either this particular species of bat, nor the virus.

DENVERPOPS

(8,826 posts)
12. Hey RR
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:45 PM
Apr 2020

I distinctly remember, early on, that I heard the Chinese Gov't had immediately fired the top 200 at that lab once the Chinese Gov't learned of this virus in the Chinese community. Odd that there hasn't been any mention of this since.....I can only imagine that "fired" was literal. Taken to the woods, etc.....

The U.S. government isn't so squeaky clean on biological warfare research, having not only developed, but having a record of covertly using it on our own population to test it's effects. Much of it we will probably never hear about due to "National Security"........

Think USAMARID........(sp?) in Maryland?..........

Ford_Prefect

(7,901 posts)
3. Mrs. Oleary's Cow Theory seems far less likely than an instutional failure in a dangerous field IMHO
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 03:37 PM
Apr 2020

Last edited Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:39 PM - Edit history (1)

I live 6 miles from the Rocky Mountain Lab. Oops is not supposed to ever be able to happen there, either.

At one time I lived downwind of another great facility which we were assured was safe. Dangerous materials were said to be handled with the greatest caution and care by dedicated, serious professionals. The most sophisticated and rigorous methods were applied to assure that nothing bad could escape and harm the public or the planet.

And then one day the wrong things, which were never, ever supposed to happen, despite the best intentions and practices of all of those dedicated professionals, did just that. More than half a million people were evacuated from the immediate area. Those of us who were a bit further down wind still do not know how much we were exposed to or what actually was released.

My point is that complicated systems do occasionally fail no matter the level of disaster proofing applied or the dedication and professionalism of those responsible to operate them.

Given the almost daily revelations regarding appropriate safe distancing and the durability of the virus, along with similar rolling revelations about the apparent range of degree of infection, symptoms and side effects, it seems to me far more likely that the research facility may have underestimated or misunderstood critical aspects of the virus, and so mishandled some aspect of the research they were doing.

One person's opinion to be sure. But all the same...

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
5. Uh oh........
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:19 PM
Apr 2020

the QAnon crazies will use this as proof that China weaponized this virus to defeat the U.S. of A. They were already broaching this subject, but now.......

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
10. You can't help crazy
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:30 PM
Apr 2020

i think the main takeaway is China had to know the hour this happened.

And lied to cover it up.

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
16. You're probably correct.
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 06:40 PM
Apr 2020

As well as greatly under-reporting the number of deaths in China, they let the genie out of the bottle as well.

FailureToCommunicate

(14,014 posts)
6. Why are these pandemic threatening "wet markets" still able to operate?
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:23 PM
Apr 2020

And did the lab where **somthing** might have escaped, clean up it's act?

catsudon

(839 posts)
14. i misspoke
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:53 PM
Apr 2020

i do mean it was accidentally released from the lab. the virus is probably from the special bat found in the local Wuhan area.

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
17. Sorry, I must have confused things with bad writing
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 06:57 PM
Apr 2020

The bat is a wood bat, NOT native to Wuhan.

It was, however, used in the lab.

Because the wood bat is NOT native to Wuhan, the British believe that it was unlikely to have been at the wet market.

neohippie

(1,142 posts)
13. scientests say that it was not made
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:52 PM
Apr 2020

I think there is science out there that says this wasn't made due to genetics that can be traced, but that's not to say it was not released by accident or even more foolishly on purpose

Keep in mind that 2 years ago, while these warnings were out there, is the same time that this administration removed 2/3 of CDC staff in China, and around the same time the NSC disbanded the Global Bio-defense team

Ford_Prefect

(7,901 posts)
15. That does rather tilt the odds a bit, eh?
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 05:20 PM
Apr 2020

"Well we can't be all things to all people, can we? So why try to avoid the inevitable disaster?" seems to be the policy statement.

Mr.Bill

(24,296 posts)
11. How many Secretaries of State have we had since then?
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:31 PM
Apr 2020

There's the real problem. There is no continuity in any of our cabinet positions, unless you want to count Ben Carson, who is asleep most of the time.

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