Asymptomatic spread of coronavirus is 'very rare,' WHO says
Source: CNBC
Coronavirus patients without symptoms aren't driving the spread of the virus, World Health Organization officials said Monday, casting doubt on concerns by some researchers that the disease could be difficult to contain due to asymptomatic infections.
Some people, particularly young and otherwise healthy individuals, who are infected by the coronavirus never develop symptoms or only develop mild symptoms. Others might not develop symptoms until days after they were actually infected.
Preliminary evidence from the earliest outbreaks indicated that the virus could spread from person-to-person contact, even if the carrier didn't have symptoms. But WHO officials now say that while asymptomatic spread can occur, it is not the main way it's being transmitted.
"From the data we have, it still seems to be rare that an asymptomatic person actually transmits onward to a secondary individual," Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, head of WHO's emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, said at a news briefing from the United Nations agency's Geneva headquarters. "It's very rare."
Read more: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/06/08/asymptomatic-coronavirus-patients-arent-spreading-new-infections-who-says.html
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)milestogo
(16,829 posts)stopdiggin
(11,317 posts)LisaL
(44,973 posts)It seems to contradict everything I have read before about covid. In fact it might be most contagious a couple of days before symptoms appear.
People with coronavirus infections may be most contagious one to two days before they start to feel ill, new research suggests.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-infection-contagious-days-before-symptoms-appear
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)that asymptomatic people aren't walking around coughing and sneezing.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)It describes several studies. Infectious virus is produced before symptoms begin.
It depends on the definition of asymptomatic. Does it mean not showing symptoms yet, or someone who will not show any symptoms during the entire course of the infection?
The second to last paragraph in your link defines it as never developing them. That would mean that person is not likely to be coughing and sneezing, therefore less likely to spread the virus.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Unless they are psychic.
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)They don't unless they are tested.
yaesu
(8,020 posts)Last edited Mon Jun 8, 2020, 04:41 PM - Edit history (1)
I would like to know the real reason WHO has backtracked.
Igel
(35,320 posts)The claim isn't that asymptomatics don't spread the virus. The claim is that it's not the primary or particularly common way.
That leaves "sometimes".
The second claim is that asymptomatics can spread the virus. That doesn't say it's the primary way. In fact, since it's often spread by sneezing and coughing, if you don't sneeze and cough that leaves speaking. Speaking can spread it because it forms droplets of varying sizes--every sibilant, affricate, even dental and palatal release bursts do so, and the more forceful the greater the production. Speaking tends to take what's on the articulators, the tongue or the inside of the mouth, and spit it out. If you're sympomatic, it means you're coughing and bringing up serious virus loads from the airways that get expelled by speech. Or you clear your throat to clear out mucus from the sinuses. Now, if you're not symptomatic, all that there is in your mouth is simple saliva, with a smaller load.
So if you're asymptomatic then you don't cough, sneeze, and your speech is even less infectious. That means it's not likely that most cases are produced by asymptomatics. That leaves "sometimes" as the right frequency.
I don't see backtrack; I see clarification. They've take "sometimes" from meaning "fairly frequently, but not mostly" down to "less frequently, but not zero."
Meanwhile, https://www.biospace.com/article/protein-associated-with-covid-19-may-be-less-common-in-children/ has come to my attention (thanks NPR), meaning that my assumption that all ages were equally at risk for contracting the disease upon exposure but differed in presentation of symptoms was skewed. (It does help explain why school closures keep showing little to negative effect on reduction of transmission rates.)
yaesu
(8,020 posts)without drastic measures like closing schools, businesses. It was the smart thing to do due at the time do to the lack of knowledge. We had zero Federal help also which added to the unknown.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)ananda
(28,866 posts)Compromised by threats from the usual suspects.
FarPoint
(12,409 posts)I'll continue with assuming everyone has COVID 19 and protect myself and others... it's no big deal to me.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)Here are the sad facts:
Nearly Half of Coronavirus Spread May Be Traced to People Without Any Symptoms
https://time.com/5848949/covid-19-asymptomatic-spread/
DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)than fact.
PSPS
(13,603 posts)One has to wonder if the WHO is knuckling under to one of trump's "do me a fovor, though" tricks when he pulled the US out.
Jose Garcia
(2,598 posts)LisaL
(44,973 posts)I contradicts everything I have seen reported. The study below was published in Nature Medicine. A very prestigious journal. The study suggests just the opposite, people are at their most infectious before symptoms appear.
"People with coronavirus infections may be most contagious one to two days before they start to feel ill, new research suggests."
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-infection-contagious-days-before-symptoms-appear
stopdiggin
(11,317 posts)both things obviously cannot be true ...
(They are perhaps referring to people who never develop symptoms? Frustrating to say the least.)
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)in the second to last paragraph in the link.
Asymptomatic is not the same as pre-symptomatic.
(I'd argue that the categories are more prototypes than easily implemented--if you have very, very, very mild symptoms you could be symptomatic but overlook the symptoms, or if you also have hay fever your symptoms can be masked entirely.)
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)who had a sinus infection and had a severe cough. She was one of the first in our county to be tested for the virus, and tested negative. Back then it took 8 days to get the results. That was a scary week at our house for sure.
Steelrolled
(2,022 posts)Key words highlighted below.
I'm puzzled by this as well but it sounds fantastic. I would think WHO would be very cautious about saying something like this if they were not sure, given the criticism they have received over past announcements.
Of course there are still people who have symptoms but still go out into public (several reports to this effect regarding the recent demos).
Edit to add link to press conference: https://www.pscp.tv/w/1BdGYnjWodAJX
Listening this to carefully it appears she includes presymptomatic as part of asymptomatic. It starts around 31:45.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)LymphocyteLover
(5,644 posts)it's so easily misinterpreted and will cause people to lower their guard
LisaL
(44,973 posts)potentially infecting others, how would anyone know if they are asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic? What point does WHO want to make here?
DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)the common cold and flu, too. Both can be spread before whoever is infected knows they are sick.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)JudyM
(29,251 posts)A guy sitting in the back of a bus that had a closed circuit camera that later verified that he never once sneezed, coughed or spoke with any of the other passengers, had no symptoms, yet got quite a few passengers sick, including some on the buss next run when he was long gone.
Then there was that chorus case, I dont recall that person being sick, either.
How did so many get sick so quickly in NY even after the virus was common knowledge? That many symptomatic people continued circulating in the public sphere? Doubtful.
Native
(5,942 posts)Do you remember if they ended up tracing that to anyone? Not finding the answer, myself, in a few searches.
Native
(5,942 posts)At least they were the first 3 to test positive.
Dream Girl
(5,111 posts)No need to wear masks or social distant! Trump was right all along!
yaesu
(8,020 posts)silverweb
(16,402 posts)This may be true. Then again, it might not be entirely true. My spidey sense says it's illogical and therefore not to be trusted, so I'm going to err on the side of caution.
RobinA
(9,893 posts)it was illogical to spread it when asymptomatic. Not saying it doesnt, just that it didnt seem quite right to me. I think its going to turn out that most of the sure things are going to turn out to be bull. Its mainly spread by touching contaminated surfaces, no by droplets. A sore throat is a good sign you have it, no its not. No GI involvement, oh wait, yes there is.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)When we consider that this virus is new and behaving in unusual ways, it's not surprising that many bits of information seem like contradictions to what is already "known." The catch is that what is "known" isn't always complete or accurate yet.
For example: At first, COVID-19 seemed to be a respiratory disease causing pneumonia. Now we know it attacks the endothelial cells lining the blood vessels in every part of the body, not just the lungs. The following article gives a very good overview of the situation: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/blood-vessel-attack-could-trigger-coronavirus-fatal-second-phase. This changes everything -- and there is still so much more to learn.
The information coming out about COVID-19 is continuous, in bits and pieces, from all over the world. It's going to be quite some time before all this data is assembled, analyzed, and understood by researchers. Meanwhile, as far as what to believe, I'll continue to err on the side of caution.
IronLionZion
(45,457 posts)so it was people with bad symptoms spreading it around to church choirs and fellow travelers?
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)who have no paid sick leave and can't afford to miss work.
IronLionZion
(45,457 posts)Initech
(100,081 posts)Plus also combine cold weather and a virus that lives and thrives in cold weather and you have a perfect storm waiting to happen. Most of the major spreading incidents happened more indoors than outdoors. And a lot of it too seemed to happen way more in closed environments with centralized, circulated air. Which is what led to the banning of most large events - both indoors and outdoors. Bill Maher was discussing this on last week's show.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)That's a step in the right direction for reopening.
yardwork
(61,650 posts)PaulRevere08
(449 posts)you are protecting others. My question is that even if they are asymptomatic, are they still shedding virus cells the same way as those that are showing symptoms?
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)PaulRevere08
(449 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)An earlier headline should have said most asymptomatic coronavirus patients arent spreading new infections. The word most was inadvertedly omitted.
Steelrolled
(2,022 posts)I listened carefully to the WHO doctor. She used the words "very rare" and later "rare". She said that much of the information behind that finding is not published. And it seems fairly clear that she includes both people who never exhibit symptoms (or only very mild symptoms), and people who have not yet exhibited symptoms.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)First they didn't recommend masks. Then they very recently started to recommend them. Now all of the sudden they are claiming asymptomatic (or pre-symptomatic) people rarely spread it? Which seems to contradict everything else reported about this virus. Their information is not published? What has been published (I posted links) indicates people produce infectious virus before even showing any symptoms.
What gives?
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)with a wide range of symptoms. The probably still have much to learn about it.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)How would it be good for them to say nothing until they are exactly certain about everything? That's not how science works. Hell, the number of planets has changed in my lifetime. Science is an evolving thing. I remember it took years before they figured out how AIDS was transmitted.
Steelrolled
(2,022 posts)By giving us the very latest information there is a higher chance of having to change it. I think health professionals around the world deal with this better then the general public. Of course, the mass media adds a little more confusion along the way.
RobinA
(9,893 posts)contradictory announcements, they just shouldnt announce them like they are 100%. CDC (although not WHO) has people screaming at other people in stores for not wearing a mask when the mask thing is totally unproven.
Its a tough situation, in all fairness. Stupid mistakes were made coughcoughTrumpcough. But honest mistakes were made by people who were trying to be more safe than sorry.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)Last edited Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:29 PM - Edit history (1)
I mean, it is "rare" to die of Covid-19 if you get it, but SO MANY PEOPLE (millions) are getting Covid-19 that we have 110k dead from it.
Researchers in Iceland reported that 50 percent of their novel coronavirus cases who tested positive had no symptoms. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/50-percent-of-people-with-covid19-not-aware-have-virus
50% is a LOT of people, so even if "rare," asymptotic spread still means a lot of spread. Every day there are 20,000 new symptomatic cases in the US (we only test symptomatic people).
That means, per that Iceland study, that there are about 20,000 new asymptomatic cases each day too. That is a LOT of asymptomatic people. Let's say just 1% of asymptomatic people spread the disease (again, she did not offer up a numbet, but let's fucking guess at what she meant, since she gives us no alternative), if there are currently 100k asymptomatic people (it's probably a lot more than that) in the US, then 1,000 are actively spreading the virus. That is a big problem.
But MAGAts don't care about any of that. They are creaming themselves posting this story all over the internet because they think it proves coronavirus is not so bad. Fucking insane.
rocktivity
(44,576 posts)Last edited Sat Jun 13, 2020, 10:13 PM - Edit history (3)
or only develop mild symptoms. Others might not develop symptoms until days after they were actually infected."
But they are all CAPABLE of spreading the virus in the meantime, however "rarely" they are successful: for that reason alone, they should be tested for and properly quarantined. And if they are a "minority group" among those who are still spreading the virus, then -- if you'll pardon the expression -- WHO is doing the MAJORITY of the spreading?
rocktivity
Demonmogirl
(14 posts)But if you don't have symptoms then you may not be coughing or sneezing, that could help stop it. Good news.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)JudyM
(29,251 posts)taking without a mask. Live virus has been found in asymptomatic people. Ergo, asymptomatic people can transmit the virus. Seniors are especially vulnerable... even a single virion seems to be able to make them catch it.
WHO isnt making sense to me.
Welcome to DU!
Bayard
(22,100 posts)Wonder if this is one more thing the admin is pushing them to say, so more people will go back to work and we can have baseball games and MAGA rallies.
Steelrolled
(2,022 posts)given he had badmouthed them, cut a major part of their funding, and withdrew the US.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)Kali
(55,014 posts)who understand science.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)littlemissmartypants
(22,692 posts)One of the perks of being an introvert, not being afraid of limiting your contact with people.
Plus, I try not to put all of my blind faith in one basket, but thanks anyway W.H.O.
EleanorR
(2,393 posts)I was responding to a question at the press conference. I wasnt stating a policy of WHO or anything like that. I was just trying to articulate what we know, she said on a live Q&A streamed across multiple social media platforms. And in that, I used the phrase very rare, and I think that thats misunderstanding to state that asymptomatic transmission globally is very rare. I was referring to a small subset of studies.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/09/who-scrambles-to-clarify-comments-on-asymptomatic-coronavirus-spread-much-is-still-unknown.html
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)They thought her original comments showed coronavirus s not so bad and proved their conspiracy theory that social distancing and mask rules are a plot by Democrats to take away our freedom. They are of course dead wrong:
Nearly Half of Coronavirus Spread May Be Traced to People Without Any Symptoms
https://time.com/5848949/covid-19-asymptomatic-spread/
rocktivity
(44,576 posts)I love the smell of exoneration in the morning.
rocktivity
DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)Lots of interesting stuff here although some won't like the part about mask-wearing: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/06/08/how-iceland-beat-the-coronavirus
The gist is that Iceland's success came from contact tracing and quarantining.
By sequencing the virus from every person infected, researchers at deCODE could also make inferences about how it had spread. One of the very interesting things is that, in all our data, there are only two examples where a child infected a parent, Stefánsson told me. But there are lots of examples where parents infected children.
FakeNoose
(32,645 posts)The word "asymptomatic" isn't being used correctly in this case. They should be saying "presymptomatic," and yes it has been a major cause for the rapid spread of the virus.
We learned even before the pandemic became serious that the incubation period for the virus is up to 2 weeks, in which case the person could be exposed and carrying the virus while not showing symptoms yet. The symptoms do show up eventually and patient is forced to deal with the fact they have this virus. Meanwhile they've been going around exposing others (including their own families) to the same illness unknowingly.
THAT was why we had to start wearing facemasks, practice social distancing, frequent hand-washing, etc. With the lockdown we all acted as if everyone else might be carrying the virus, and we all had to maintain distance to keep our loved ones safe. Those who actually were carrying the virus did start showing symptoms soon enough. There are no silent carriers, as the word "asymptomatic" might suggest.