NKorean soldier defects to SKorea across border

[Bosonic]

Source: AP

SEOUL, South Korea (AP) -- A North Korean soldier killed two of his officers Saturday and defected to South Korea across the countries' heavily armed border, officials said.

The soldier shot his platoon and company commanders before crossing the Demilitarized Zone at around noon, a Defense Ministry official said, citing the soldier's statement after he was taken into custody by South Korean border guards.

The official declined to be named because questioning by authorities was still under way.

No unusual military movement was detected from the North Korean side of the border after the crossing, a South Korean Joint Chiefs of Staff official said. He also declining to be named, citing office rules.

Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_KOREAS_DEFECTOR?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[Savannahmann]

1. Silly Question

I thought that there were millions of landmines there to keep people from coming across. I mention it because it was the excuse that President Clinton gave for not joining the international treaty to ban landmines. So one soldier, who has just murdered two people, and running for his life, manages to avoid them all?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

2. The static defenses are slightly back from the border

There are also defined safe roads between the two countries over the border that while suitable for diplomacy and not adequate for invasion.

[joshcryer]

40. There are crossroads that are safe. Some North Koreans even work in South Korea.

It sounds like he killed two soldiers who were with him manning a station. I imagine there were probably many other soldiers present but dispersed enough for him to make a quick jog across the crossing. Pop, pop, announce intentions, run.

[jberryhill]

51. The border runs the entire peninsula

At the highly controlled Panmunjom complex, one can step right across.



The DPRK doesn't assign just anyone there.

[gtar100]

3. May he be kept safe and find his way in what is going to be a very different world

than what he's known. North Korea puts so much effort into shielding its people from the rest of the world. It really does bring hope that some still find a way to escape and that some still want to badly enough. But it's obviously an incredibly dangerous endeavor. I can only wonder what would happen if that society was finally opened up again to be part of the world. They would be in for a huge shock.

[davidpdx]

4. This happens from time to time

Also civilians crossing the boarder as well. Most of the refugees go through China into Vietnam or Thailand. It is a long tough journey and not everyone makes it to South Korea successfully.

If anyone wants to read about North Korea, two books I recommend:

The Aquariums of Pyongyang
Nothing to Envy

[AsahinaKimi]

5. Ya just know He came over to SOUTH KOREA

Because he had a terrible crush on

Jun Ji-hyun

Don't blame him at all... (either that or he had tickets to see BoA Kwon in concert.)

[obamanut2012]

22. I think I should get a job teaching English in SOK

[AsahinaKimi]

43. jeongmallo!

dangsin-eun hangug-eoleul hal su issseubnikka?

I wish I did. I only speak Japanese.

[obamanut2012]

47. oh my

[Socal31]

70. :) Great reply.

I would be right there with you if it wasn't on the border with nuclear-armed hermit regime with enough artillery pointed at it that there would be tens of thousands of casualties before anyone could do anything about it.

How sad that a relic war from last century still haunts us today.

All that regime has going for it is a loyal military, because that is who gets fed, and an almost complete blackout of outside information getting in to the citizens. I wish more military brass could defect without fear of execution and labor camps for their family.

[jberryhill]

52. No, he was dancing Gangnam style and got carried away

[AsahinaKimi]

62. You mean like this?

[jberryhill]

63. The North should consider Gangnam style for Arirang

[Arrowhead2k1]

6. Hold on, wouldn't those officers have families too?

What are they guilty of? They were just doing their jobs, supporting their own families. This soldier just slaughtered those people for his own personal goals. He murdered them in cold blood, and now SK will coddle, protect him, and declare him a hero? Sick...

[unreadierLizard]

7. You don't think they wouldn't have shot him back?

The DPRK's policy is to kill any of its own citizens who are caught trying to defect.

This soldier probably made an impulsive decision to buy himself some time to escape that shithole.

[Arrowhead2k1]

8. That's beside the point. I have no doubt that the majority of soldiers follow orders.

However, there are less murderous ways to escape NK. He made the decision all by himself to defect at the expense of 2 human lives and their now grieving families.

[Ikonoklast]

10. When it's either you or me who gets to live, and your job is to kill me, I choose me.

Families grieving are irrelevant.

If I was that soldier and had to decide to kill two officers in order to leave that murderous regime, I'd double tap them both just to make certain they were fucking dead.,

[glacierbay]

12. I fully agree

I remember being station in SK during the very early 70's and my Army platoon spent a month at the DMZ at an outpost called Malibu and I'll tell ya, it's as close to actual combat w/o the enemy actually shooting at you.
If I were that soldier, I would do exactly what he did and I sure wouldn't be thinking of the families of those I had to kill to get out of that murderous regime.

[cpwm17]

14. And the murderer would be you – selfish, cold-blooded murder.

[Ikonoklast]

20. And you'd just let them shoot you in the back?

My life, my choice...I choose ME.

Yes, I would kill you before I let you kill me.

I'm funny that way.

[Missycim]

68. How is it murder?

if the only way out of NK is protected by soldiers? Don't you think he had the right to escape?

[Posteritatis]

11. You sound like you have some experience defecting from North Korea. (nt)

[christx30]

9. If someone's job is to kill you

and keep you from being free, then nothing that you do to those people is wrong.
If he just tried to sneak away, and they saw him, they would have shot him dead with no hesitation. He made the decision that his life and freedom were important. And I don't blame him at all. I'd kill to protect my own life and freedom. Any sane person would.

If the defector has any family left in North Korea, I'd imagine that they are now dead. It's very sad, but when you have a psychotic regime like that, your life hangs by a thread. There are no protections for the people from their government.

[Ash_F]

29. And someday, someone could use such reasoning to harm you and your won.

Nobody in this thread is stumping for NK. It is just a twisted philosophy to have, to kill someone to get what you want.

That said, there is too little info on what exactly happened. The circumstances of the shooting could have had nothing to do with his desire to get to SK. The shooting could have happened first, for whatever reason, and then he decided it was his best bet to get out of the country. I think this is most likely, since NK soldiers have defected before without having to shoot their way out.

[christx30]

56. You're right

we don't know if he left because of the shooting or shot those 2 guys in order to get out. I just know that a lot of people have died escaping from there. Many more have died in their prison camps. This guy made it out. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. NKorea has 3 less soldiers to use against the south. Three less slaves. The more people that are able to get out, the weaker they are. I want to see many more people able to escape, until the country collapses.

[cpwm17]

13. You're right

They didn't choose to live in NK. What if one of the officers murdered the soldier to defect? Would that have been fair also? - no way.

That was cold blooded murder for his selfish desires. He should be sent back to NK to face justice – fuck him.

[fil62793skx]

16. an NK apologist. Nice.

[David__77]

18. Actually, it has nothing to do with supporting N. Korea.

That is a good point. Obviously this soldier would have made no attempt to assess the desire of the officers to defect - doing so would certainly have resulted in arrest. But is it moral to kill them to flee? One could argue that because they were officers (if true), that makes them fair game. But it's also arguable that this would essentially justify killing anyone in order to flee.

[joshcryer]

38. I don't know, you don't kill your fellow humans in that way without considering it.

He may have been with those fellow soldiers for weeks before he finally decided he couldn't convince them to defect. Desperation probably played a role, too, because he wasn't going to have that station forever, his chances to defect dwindled at every moment.

I think though that since they're still at war technically killing a fellow soldier to defect is within the rules of war. If he was deported back to NK it would fall under military law and not civilian law.

[Ikonoklast]

21. I'll do it. I'll "Go Godwin".

You're right

They didn't choose to live in Nazi Germany. What if one of the officers murdered the soldier to defect? Would that have been fair also? - no way.

That was cold blooded murder for his selfish desires. He should be sent back to Nazi Germany to face justice – fuck him.

Same difference.

[obamanut2012]

24. +1

[Posteritatis]

28. Sadly there are a few of them around here. (nt)

[cpwm17]

32. An apologist for cold-blooded murder – how liberal of you.

It would be outrageous to let him free.

If SK doesn't want to send him back to face NK's version of justice, SK should keep him imprisoned. But that doesn't sound legal. Only NK has jurisdiction.

[glacierbay]

33. How do you know it was cold blooded murder?

Maybe they were trying to stop him from defecting, if so, then he knew what was in store for him if caught, torture and a 9 grams of lead.

[joshcryer]

39. This is very true, he could've told them, straight up, he was defecting.

Held his gun up to tell them to let him go, and then as they raised their guns it would've been 100% self-defense.

[cpwm17]

42. I am replying to this thread as argued above

Ikonoklast wrote above:

When it's either you or me who gets to live, and your job is to kill me, I choose me.

Families grieving are irrelevant.

If I was that soldier and had to decide to kill two officers in order to leave that murderous regime, I'd double tap them both just to make certain they were fucking dead.

You replied:

I fully agree

I remember being station in SK during the very early 70's and my Army platoon spent a month at the DMZ at an outpost called Malibu and I'll tell ya, it's as close to actual combat w/o the enemy actually shooting at you.
If I were that soldier, I would do exactly what he did and I sure wouldn't be thinking of the families of those I had to kill to get out of that murderous regime.

Posters above, including you, have taken this news report at face value. So I replied accordingly. If further news reports change considerably, then appropriated opinions could change. As written, and argued above, it's cold-blooded murder.

[glacierbay]

48. Fair enough

but we'll never hear the truth from the NK's, so we'll only have the word of the defecting soldier.

[msanthrope]

64. We had one that liked to post pictures of smiling North Koreans as proof that

they weren't living in a hellish nightmare.

[glacierbay]

17. Justice? In NK?

Are you fucking serious? The only justice he would face is a bullet in the back of the head. The country is so fucked up, if it were me,l I would've done the same exact thing.

[obamanut2012]

25. He would be LUCKY of he got that

He might end that way, but only after months or years of torture.

[glacierbay]

26. True that.

[obamanut2012]

23. He should be sent back to NOK to face justice?

Shameful.

You can't face justice in an extreme dictatorship that doesn't have a justice system.

It would be more humane for SOK to take him into the woods and blast his brains out.

Just ridiculous suggestion.

[cpwm17]

31. I know what NK justice means

Those officers the defector murdered in cold blood didn't receive justice either. I'd rather that SK tries him, but they don't have jurisdiction. SK shouldn't let the defector get away with his horrible crime.

[obamanut2012]

34. You stated you think he should be sent back to NOK to have justice served

You said that. So, even knowing what NOK "justice" means, you still stated he should be sent back and punished.

I am not putting words in your mouth. You said that, no matter how you are trying to backpedal some now.

[cpwm17]

35. I'm not backpedaling at all

I'd rather the murderer (assuming this news report is correct) be sent back to NK rather than go free.

If he is set free, and if I were a family member of one of the murdered officers, my goal in life would be to make sure my family member's murderer doesn't die of natural causes. I know that would be almost impossible under NK's current political situation.

[obamanut2012]

44. uh huh

[christx30]

59. The crime is what

the leaders of North Korea have been getting away with since 1953. They torture and murder their citizens routinely. And there are people in that country that want to get out. You want to feel righteously angry at someone? Be angry at the psychotic NK government that made this guy feel that scared and desperate that he had to kill 2 people to get out.
I don't know you. But I'm guessing that you have never been in that kind of situation. I know I haven't. God help me, I hope I never will. I don't know what I would do in his place. Would you lie down and die? Would you allow yourself to be captured, tortured and killed? Would you accept living in North Korea? Would you be glad about it? I know I would kill to save my own life.
Just think of it like this: The situation in North Korea is not a natural phenomenon. It's not a drought. It's not a forest fire. It's the human beings that found themselves in power that decided to treat the less lucky people like garbage. Slaves. And the people have a right to escape that. Can we at least agree on that last point?

[Posteritatis]

27. "sent back to NK to face justice" - LOL.

I keep forgetting there's people here who have that little of a clue about North Korea, even after running into some outright fans of the place.

[Ash_F]

30. I agree. No one should be extradited to North Korea, no matter what they did.

No one should be extradited to any country with the death penalty, torture or an unfair court system. The U.S. should go on that list.




There aught to be a treaty.

[4th law of robotics]

65. Justice is in short supply in NK

punishment is always in a surplus (I don't doubt his family and friends are being tortured right now).

[christx30]

69. Let's turn it around:

What if he had lost and they had shot him? Would the soldiers be murderers in your eyes? Would you say that they deserve to be arrested and tried?
And where have you been for the 50+ years of the North Korean regime where they have killed MILLIONS of people through imprisonment, torture, starvation? The three Kims have lived in absolute luxury while their people starve to death? Where is your outrage about that? Is that ok, but a guy that wants to escape death and starvation is a selfish, cold blooded murderer? Most people want to live. And killing someone that wants to kill you isn't selfishness. It's self defense. I suppose you'd just stand there and let yourself be killed.
I wouldn't.

[LanternWaste]

71. I imagine many people believe escaping to freedom is a "selfish desire"

"That was cold blooded murder for his selfish desires..."

I imagine many people believe escaping to freedom is a "selfish desire"

[christx30]

73. Or people think,

"I don't want to die." is a selfish desire.

It reminds me of when the Daleks taunt the Doctor and call him a murder. They are trying to murder every non-Dalek in the universe. People fight back because they don't want to die.

[joshcryer]

37. Yes, it is absolutely unfortunate, sad. I am sure he felt he had no choice.

However, this is different from someone killing someone and then leaving the country to avoid prosecution and aligning with another regime. Huey P. Newton comes to mind, as he murdered John Frey, then "defected" to Cuba.

I wish that he thought about the situation more clearly, perhaps found a way to incapacitate his fellow military men. I think in his mind he felt that had he started walking to defect he would've assuredly been shot in the back. And that probably is a fair assessment.

He may be able to rid himself of the guilt because he could convince himself had he incapacitated those men they may have wound up in a labor camp for failing to fulfill their duties. At the bare minimum tortured to be sure that they weren't in on it by letting him go, etc.

[treestar]

61. Life in a place like that

Hangs by a thread. The families could easily be put in camps by the government. Or killed. No one is safe.

There is no freedom there. There's no supporting your family - you're doing what the government tells you to do, and if your family ends up starving (happened there) - there's not much you can do about it. It's not life in the sense we think of it.

[4th law of robotics]

66. It's nice to have freedoms and choices

but if you read anything about NK you'll see that you don't.

Even discussing your concerns with the regime can carry a death sentence.

[Ken Burch]

19. He could probably smell them cooking lunch on the other side.

And really, what's the surprise here? It's not as if anybody anywhere thinks that the DPRK is a working society on any level.

I hope the guy has a good life.

[cpwm17]

36. What an incredible sociopath this murderer is.

He's destroyed three families, including his own, for his own selfish greed.

http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/2012/10/06/north-korean-soldier-kills-2-before-defecting-to-south-2/

Under North Korea's collective punishment system, an act of this magnitude would mean harsh treatment for the soldier's family, extending for three generations.

[Bradical79]

41. You're assuming he had a family

Also, I don't think you know shit about North Korea or the sort of monsters he worked for.

[obamanut2012]

46. +1

[obamanut2012]

45. Doubling down, I see

[glacierbay]

49. So now yearning to be free

is selfish greed?

You're branding him a murderer despite not knowing what really happened, what about waiting for more details to come out?

[snooper2]

53. Maybe you should track him down and turn him back over yourself..

Let me know how the hotels are!

[Crunchy Frog]

54. You're talking about the NK dictatorship, right?

Sociopathic murderers definitely. I'm sorry that a couple of soldiers got killed, but glad that the man in question got out of that hellhole. I won't pass judgement because I have no idea what circumstances brought him to that level of desperation.

[4th law of robotics]

67. Sure it's his fault, not the governments

In a "look what you made me do" kind of mentality.

Just like we labeled slaves who escaped as deranged because didn't they know their friends could be punished as a result?

And lawd help them if they killed some white slave masters as they fled. That would have been cruel to the families of those slave masters.

/North Koreans are by all definitions slaves. And materially worse off than slaves in the old south (where at least mass famine didn't strike every few years and they were allowed some religion and independent thought).

//no I'm not saying slavery here was good. I'm saying what the people of North Korea have to live with is truly horrific.

[LanternWaste]

72. I suppose you weren't too pleased with Soviet defections to the west, either.

I suppose you weren't too pleased with Soviet defections to the west, either (defection laws were even harsher then NK during Kruschev's era)

Well, the law is the law-- whether just or not, whether in a gulag or not...

[davidthegnome]

50. If a man who worked for Nazi Germany had done this...

I can't imagine anyone here not understanding why, or suggesting that the defector should have faced "Nazi Justice". The North Korean Regime is not really so different from Hitler's, except that they lack the money, political and military power that the Nazis had. From what I know of the region - from what I've read of it, I can't say I'd blame the man for doing what he did. Some horrors are too much to live with, some times it's a choice that really is all about saving your soul.

What I wonder, is why this man made this decision now? What put him in that position?

The idea that he should return to North Korea to face justice, or that there is even any such thing as justice in North Korea... is absurd.

[DeSwiss]

55. Pretty soon there will be no Un left. :-/ n/t

[Proles]

57. To those against this NK officer killing fellows officers, I suppose you'd think it'd be inhumane

for a Jewish man to kill a couple Nazi officers to escape Germany?

After all, those Nazis had families, and were only following orders.

Now, granted, there are differences in these two scenarios, but the underlying principle is the same. This man wanted freedom from North Korea. If I were born in an impoverished, starving, hermit nation that put all its money into the military (honestly, I doubt this man even wanted to choose to serve in the military. I think its mandatory service over there), I'd sure as hell be desperate to escape too.

Return him to North Korea for justice? May as well phrase that to say, "return him to North Korea to be tortured."

[Godless in Seattle]

58. I guess he likes to eat food

[RobertBlue]

60. What a weird story.

And weirder but funny replies.