Protests swell after police shoot and kill a man in West Philly

[swag]

Source: Philadelphia Inquirer

Police officers fatally shot a 27-year-old Black man armed with a knife during a confrontation Monday afternoon in West Philadelphia, an incident that quickly raised tensions in the neighborhood and sparked a standoff that lasted deep into the night.

Late Monday into early Tuesday, police struggled to respond to vandalism and looting along the commercial corridor of 52nd Street, an area that was the scene of clashes between police and protestors earlier this summer. At least one police vehicle was set on fire Monday night and destroyed, and several police officers were injured by bricks or other objects hurled from the crowd. One officer was hospitalized after getting run over by a speeding truck.

The episode began shortly before 4 p.m., police said, when two officers responded to the 6100 block of Locust Street after a report of a man with a knife. Family members identified him as Walter Wallace Jr.

A video posted on social media showed Wallace walking toward the officers and police backing away. The video swings briefly out of view at the moment the gunfire erupts but he appeared to be multiple feet from them when they fired numerous shots.

Read more: https://www.inquirer.com/news/west-philadelphia-police-shooting-locust-20201026.html

[PSPS]

1. Do police departments even issue and train with batons anymore?

There's no shortage of police "buffs" on DU who swear that the only way a cop can deal with anyone holding a knife is to just blow them away or some other nonsense to defend these unnecessary killings. That's simply not true. Besides just shooting the guy in the leg or other less lethal location, a baton can be used to immobilize anyone who isn't ready to fire a gun. In this case, there were two cops to boot, making it even easier.

[winstars]

2. Police are trained to use deadly force if a person with a knife is 20 or less feet away.

Its definitely totally not my idea of a good policy, its just one I am aware of.

[PSPS]

3. So, your answer is 'no.' It didn't used to be that way. Now it's the "occupation force" mindset.

[winstars]

4. I have no answers. Just telling you what the police do. Talk to them about it.

Tase them, non-lethal rounds, use a baton hey, throw a freaking chair at the guy with knife is better than shooting, I agree.

But that not how they are currently trained so for them NOT to shoot a Glock many many times, THAT would be news because thats not how they are trained. This is what BLM and others here are talking about.

I am not "a police buff" Didn't know we had them here on DU...

[BumRushDaShow]

5. I woke up this morning to this news here in Philly

The police here most definitely have batons. In fact, the Philly police have been notorious for their "creative" baton use and have been beating the crap out of people for decades.

The problem at this point is that whatever "training" they have received, needs to be completely revamped, which has been one of the biggest issues talked about regarding "criminal justice reform and policing".

The below is from the George Floyd protests here in Philly down on the Ben Franklin Parkway back in June. This is the type of "policing" seen during the '60s that black protestors experienced. Fast forward almost 60 years later, with most of the BLM protests this year being majority WHITE (which is still breathtakingly cathartic to me), now whites are experiencing it (outside of what many of their parents may have experienced during the anti-Vietnam protests in the '60s).

[Jose Garcia]

7. If you are close enough to hit someone with a baton, they are close enough to stab or slash you

[PSPS]

8. LOL. Maybe if your baton is 3 inches long. I'm talking about the real world.

[Dial H For Hero]

9. Shooting for the leg is a *terrible* policy.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/police-shoot-kill-taser-force-experts-law

Experts say “shooting to wound” only works in movies. In reality, it doesn’t make sense legally or tactically. And, they say, less-lethal force isn’t always appropriate in certain circumstances, especially when a suspect is wielding a weapon at a close range. Here’s why.

Shooting a suspect in the arm or the leg would be difficult for John Wayne, never mind the most skilled marksman on the force, said Candace McCoy, a professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice at the City University of New York.

If a police officer decides to fire, and is justified in doing so, they will be shooting under intense pressure at a dangerous suspect who is likely moving quickly, all of which makes it incredibly difficult to hit a target, McCoy said. Officers are trained to shoot at “center mass”, roughly the chest region, because they’re more likely to hit the target and stop an imminent threat.

McCoy said the legal threshold for using deadly force is high: an officer can only shoot at a suspect who poses a life-threatening risk to the officer or the public. She said allowing officers to “shoot to wound” would lower that threshold.

[PSPS]

11. I disagree but, in any case, I'd take it over the unnecessary killing

The writer of that six-year-old opinion piece in the Guardian sounds like it was written by a police union performing in its usual capacity as mouthpiece for "the occupying force."

[orangecrush]

14. I would not

Want to try and disarm a knife wielding person with a baton.

That's asking for a perforation.

That said, it seems there is a "shoot immediately" mentality, ad opposed to trying to talk a person down, if they are not an immediate threat.

[bucolic_frolic]

6. There was a video somewhere or other

that show UK police disarming a man with a knife, they used poles, bars, and whacked him from all sides.

I fail to understand how shooting suspects with knives is necessary use of lethal force. A gun would be a different thing.

[still_one]

10. I support the protest, but the looting and burning only serves to help trump

[ripcord]

12. The counter to deadly force is deadly force

When it comes down to it the police have more of a right to go home safely than the instigator attacking them.

[orangecrush]

15. Does that apply

To mentally ill people who have no control over their actions?

If the person isn't nearly close enough to cut me or someone else, instead of trying to defuse the situation, the proper response is "empty your magazine"?

[ripcord]

16. Unfortunately it does

I am always amazed at people who have never faced at aggressive person armed with a knife who are experts. I was a bouncer for over 15 years and have over 100 stitches from knife wounds and I finally developed a strategy, it involved a sawed off baseball bat and no worry about the person with the knife. Knives are dangerous from a surprising distance I have been cut from a distance I was positive I couldn't be reached, you can not wait for someone with a knife to make the first move because you will get cut.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

13. Style-points for standing up through the moon roof...

... while the truck ran over a cop, I guess.