Pay gap widens for federal workers, panel says

[alp227]

Source: Washington post

White-collar federal employees are underpaid on average by about 35 percent compared with the private sector, a widening of the “pay gap,” which stood at about 26 percent last year, an advisory group said Friday.

The Federal Salary Council based that number on data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics that by law are supposed to be used in setting annual General Schedule pay raises.

Federal workers have had their pay frozen for two years. In August, President Obama announced plans to extend the freeze until April. He has proposed a modest 0.5 percent increase afterward.

Members of the council, composed of union leaders and outside pay experts, attributed the wider gap to the freeze and to changes in the methods that BLS uses in its pay comparisons.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/pay-gap-widens-for-federal-workers-panel-says/2012/10/19/b47b2f6a-1a15-11e2-aa6f-3b636fecb829_story.html

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

1. That's how the Repukes want it.

They don't want competent people in government. Plus the underpaid are easier to bribe.

[rwsanders]

3. Been in and out of federal system... it is a bit more complicated than that...

Because when the pay is good enough to keep good people, the bad ones are just as happy to stay (I worked for one that was positively psychopathic).
Also, this is based on the federal government comparing salaries to what they consider "comparable" jobs. But they aren't really comparable. Overall, the federal employees are well paid. I saw a job for a retail worker at a base exchange that would have make about $30,000. Definitely more than walmart. Secretarial jobs are starting around $38,000 which is more than the median household income in the U.S.
The disparity in military salaries is even greater. A E-6 with a few years in can be pulling in a total of about $51,000.
Don't get me wrong, everyone deserves a decent job and the main reason the federal jobs are better is because jobs in the private sector pay less. I'm just trying to say I think this report is a bunch of buffalo bagels. Probably another information ploy to make people think they are getting a better deal in the private sector.

[Demit]

6. According to the latest figures from the US Census Bureau, median income in the US is $51,914

Way above $38,000. If you are going to quote numbers with such specificity, please get them right.

[primavera]

9. I keep wondering about that figure

Who in this country makes that much money?

[happyslug]

25. If you have 9 people whose income is zero and a millionaire walks in, the Average income is $100,000

"Figurers don't lie, but liars figure. " Thus if you have one millionaire to every 19 workers, the average income will be over $50,000 each (A Million divided by 20 is $50,000, thus I am ignoring what the other 19 earn in my example). Minimum wage is $7,15 per hour, on a per year basis (40 hours per week, 52 weeks per year) that comes to $14,872, Thus if you set a formula 50,000= (1,000,000 + 14.872Y)(y+1). All you need is 29 minimum wage earners to off set one millionaire to keep a median income just under $50,000 a year.

Most people earn more the Minimum wage, thus you need even more people to off set the income of any one person earning one million dollars a year.

Side note: The US Government when calculating Median Income do NOT count anyone whose income is over one Million Dollars, those income would, while very few, are so large they push up the Median income to far.

[wordpix]

12. that may be true for household income but not per capita

I just did a study of 3 swing state elections' demographics, FL, HI and NH. All 3 had per capita income in the $30K+ range and double that for household income. I think that is pretty representative.

Forgot to mention, I got these figures from the Census Bureau 2010

[rwsanders]

15. Fine, since your the whiz on accurate numbers...

Go look up the GS pay scale. While your doing that remember that with a bachelors GS-9 can be entry level. I've worked with GS-11, 12, 13, 14's. I know they are more than comfortable. Because besides the grade, they also get step increases within grade.
Most of them that I have worked with are in the science areas and the jobs outside of government if they are available at all, are no where near that. There was a recent report showing that a much higher percentage of federal workers than ever are making in the 6 figures.
I've worked with young engineers who have left some of the biggest companies to go to work for the state of MO who told me that engineering firms are like law firms, the big money goes to partners who lead teams of lower ranking engineers who work very long hours for a lot less money.
The discrepencies start to appear in IT and other high demand fields. Or if I had to guess, I bet the "discrepency" that they are really worried about is in the SES. Because they tend to try to compare themselves to private CEOs.
As I said, let federal workers earn a decent salary. They should, but saying they are falling behind private sector is a wild oversimplification.

[Demit]

16. Not being a whiz. Just looked up your claim for what median household income is.

So, your secretary earning $38,000 in a "well-paid" gov't job is making less than US median household income. Your E-6 who is "pulling in" $51,000 is making less than US median household income. Somebody who wants to refute a report as buffalo bagels ought to make sure his own facts are correct.

[rwsanders]

24. You're focusing on minutiae to avoid the main point, and the funny thing is, your numbers are wrong.

So next time you want to correct someone else's numbers, make sure yours are right.

Median household income was
$50,054 in 2011

http://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/p60-243.pdf

[CreekDog]

20. how much does the gov't worker who oversees Chevron make?

compared to the engineers, lawyers and other experts Chevron employs to overcome government regulations?

and who is outmatched? is that outmatched person paid more or less than the person across the table?

how much is the gov't lawyer paid compared to the (likely greater number) of lawyers paid by Chevron to work against whatever the government is attempting to regulate?

[QED]

21. Good point!

[wickerwoman]

22. It's not a question of being comfortable,

it's a question of the relative difference of what they would have made in the private sector compared with ten or fifteen years ago.

My parents were G-11 and 12s. They were "comfortable", certainly not upper middle class. And they would have made more in private accounting or insurance firms but had less job security, would not have been guaranteed their retirement benefits and would have been expected to work longer hours driving down their hourly pay and making it more difficult to spend time with their family.

The traditional trade off in the public sector is you accept a lower salary in exchange for job security (certainly much less true now), and guaranteed health and retirement benefits.

The problem, and where I begin to get pissed off, is with Republicans who argue that federal workers earn too much and that those benefits should be stripped away, forgetting the fact that most public workers have accepted lower salaries in exchange for those benefits. In fact, everyone should enjoy those benefits and more.

And any increase in the gap between public and private jobs would be an easily verified fact. All of those factors (other benefits, longer hours, etc. ) existed ten or fifteen years ago too. It would very much be news to me that public workers are suddenly getting more retirement and health benefits to compensate for their salaries falling further behind the private sector. In fact the opposite is certainly the trend with everyone I've spoken to. So it's not an oversimplification to show that public workers salaries as a percent of private workers salaries have decreased.

[NutmegYankee]

7. You are quoting low paid positions. The article is about Engineers and other white collar jobs. nt

[Live and Learn]

10. Lower wage jobs e.g., clerks, janitors, secretaries

have always been better paid in government jobs (shame on the government for insisting on paying a living wage ) but most of the jobs do pay less. In return employees got job security, pensions and health insurance, benefits that are now under attack.

[Drahthaardogs]

19. Retail sales are not "white-collar workers".

All in all, scientists, engineers, project managers, etc. are well underpaid. It is a known fact that the feds have a hell of a time keeping chemists and geologists because the oil industry pays so much better. In federal government, the more esoteric your knowledge and position, the more likely you are to be underpaid.

Military is tricky because they get housing allowances which makes up some difference of the pay disparity. However, unless husband and wife are both military, the housing allowance is not all that great.

[alp227]

5. Government workers are bad! Thus goverment is the problem! Starve the beast!

Yep I think that's the right wing model. Just ask Michael Brown.

[ReasonableToo]

13. Are they hoping feds will "self deport"? n/t

[midnight]

2. Discrimination should never be tolerated...

[Purveyor]

4. Then they should seek out 'private sector' employment and have no worries..eom

[Nikia]

14. In some career fields, they do

My former manager told me that in some areas of the country, it is common for USDA and food FDA inspectors to work there for five or so years before leaving for the better paid private sector. The government regulatory experience is seen as a big plus for many food companies.
If I was willing to live anymore, that might be a good opportunity for me.

[Z_California]

8. Another Meme Bites The Dust

Bookmarking this thread to refute the "Government workers are overpaid" meme.

[MrsBrady]

11. I am not over paid.

trust me on this.

[Corgigal]

17. to me its about the pension

it's the trade off that you decide to do. My husband and I live off of his pension and I'm glad he decided to go that way , then go private for more funds. It can work either way but for us it works best this way.

[GetTheRightVote]

18. This is what I have heard as well...

from some family members, the perks balance it all out.

[DuckBurp]

23. What perks?

The old pension system, Civil Service Retirement System which was an excellent system, was replaced decades ago by the Federal Employee Retirement System which relies heavily on Social Security and the Thrift Savings Plan (government's version of a 401k). No perk there. No employee discounts or automobiles, either. Travel is closely watched and budgets are monitored scrupulously. I have personally hired dozens of people from the private sector over my career with the federal government, and everyone I can think of took a cut in pay. What we do have going for us is relative job security (in most cases), a 40-hour work week (in most cases), and the satisfaction that the fruits of our labor help every American instead of making some rich business owner even richer if we were employed in most private sector jobs.