Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

BumRushDaShow

(129,440 posts)
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 12:14 PM Apr 2021

Biden calls mass killing of Armenians a 'genocide' in break with previous presidents

Source: Washington Post

President Biden recognized the massacre of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire in 1915 as a genocide Saturday, a designation that U.S. presidents long avoided for fear of damaging the U.S.-Turkey relationship. The decision follows a lengthy lobbying campaign by members of Congress and Armenian American groups eager to see the White House use a term embraced by many scholars of early 20th century history.

Historians estimate that 1.5 million Armenians were killed in a campaign of forced marches and mass killings born out of Ottoman concerns that the Christian Armenian population would align with Russia during World War I, abetting an arch-nemesis of the Ottoman Turks. Turkey has acknowledged that many Armenians were killed in fighting with Ottoman forces in 1915 but disputes the larger casualty counts, denies that the events constituted genocide and considers such claims a slander against its founder, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.

The move comes amid worsening relations between the United States and Turkish President Recep Tayyip over Turkey’s purchases of Russian military equipment, human rights abuses and interventions in Syria and Libya. Biden called Erdogan on Friday, but a White House readout of the conversation did not mention the 1915 massacres. Biden conveyed his interest in a “constructive bilateral relationship with expanded areas of cooperation and effective management of disagreements,” the statement said.

The Turkish readout of the call said Erdogan raised his objections about U.S. support for Kurdish forces in Syria, whom Turkey considers terrorists, and the case of Fethullah Gulen, a religious leader who lives in exile in the United States. It also did not mention the massacre of Armenians. Biden’s recognition comes on April 24, the date Ottomans seized Armenian dignitaries in Istanbul in 1915 in what many scholars view as the opening phase of the first genocide of the 20th century. Armenian American groups hailed the long sought move.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/armenia-genocide-biden-turkey/2021/04/24/b0f2394a-a46a-11eb-8a6d-f1b55f463112_story.html

56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Biden calls mass killing of Armenians a 'genocide' in break with previous presidents (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Apr 2021 OP
Every time I see this, I read it as Americans SheltieLover Apr 2021 #1
I'm waiting on the declaration BumRushDaShow Apr 2021 #3
And the indictment & imprisonment of dump & all involved! SheltieLover Apr 2021 #7
AFAIK, we have done nothing to help Vietnam recover DBoon Apr 2021 #38
We definitely owe them reparations for that, and a hundred other things. Aristus Apr 2021 #39
They did BumRushDaShow Apr 2021 #40
Has Cher tweeted yet? nt DURHAM D Apr 2021 #2
Not yet BumRushDaShow Apr 2021 #4
the Kardashians? nt DURHAM D Apr 2021 #5
Too busy hawkin' their warez. BumRushDaShow Apr 2021 #6
I'm sure they'd rather Joe just shut up LiberalLovinLug Apr 2021 #9
"warez"......guess thats ONE way to label it.... oldsoftie Apr 2021 #15
Or Cenk Uygur? George II Apr 2021 #13
The people that initiated the Armenian Genocide called themselves The Young Turks. n/t spike jones Apr 2021 #17
Yes, like rubbing people's noses in his denial. George II Apr 2021 #27
He use to harass Armenian students when he was in school JI7 Apr 2021 #36
Well done, Mr President TheProle Apr 2021 #8
Finally seta1950 Apr 2021 #10
Official statement: George II Apr 2021 #11
Thank you bdamomma Apr 2021 #45
Turkey should be kicked out of NATO. Mosby Apr 2021 #12
Let's kick all the nations with a history of genocide out of NATO. TygrBright Apr 2021 #20
How about we just lower the bar for admittance to actual democracies. Mosby Apr 2021 #23
Hungary? Poland? DBoon Apr 2021 #37
Good. Now let's recognize China's ongoing genocide christx30 Apr 2021 #14
YES; & ask the NBA, MLB, Disney, etc; why they continue working with China oldsoftie Apr 2021 #16
You know where apple phones are made, right? Mosby Apr 2021 #24
Yes, and thats not an excuse. Do we care or not? I bet Taiwan could make 'em...... oldsoftie Apr 2021 #28
Yes, please. (n/t) TheProle Apr 2021 #18
Glass houses. Stones... TygrBright Apr 2021 #19
Excellent and Long Overdue! Mad Kirrua Apr 2021 #21
Welcome to DU! bdamomma Apr 2021 #44
Truth Mad Kirrua Apr 2021 #47
Hitler, when planning the Holocaust, asked his flunkies thucythucy Apr 2021 #22
Wonderful news BeyondThePale Apr 2021 #25
The truth should always be spoken Mysterian Apr 2021 #26
I agree. And boy are people offended by it often. Even here. oldsoftie Apr 2021 #29
And the next time that dickbag Erdogan sends his goons out, Carlitos Brigante Apr 2021 #30
From everything I've ever read about that person, it was most definitely a genocide. BobTheSubgenius Apr 2021 #31
It's About Time to define Genocide SmartVoter22 Apr 2021 #32
You're blaming the Armenian Genocide on the British? That's sick revisionism. mathematic Apr 2021 #51
My personal story. Thank you President Biden. Faygo Kid Apr 2021 #33
Yep. LeftInTX Apr 2021 #41
fantastic catsudon Apr 2021 #34
"honey" biden doesn't give a fuck. pansypoo53219 Apr 2021 #35
?? hostile? discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2021 #50
FYI, I do not think this post was intended to be hostile. flibbitygiblets Apr 2021 #52
yes. honey badger. pansypoo53219 Apr 2021 #54
That's excellent! discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2021 #55
his hair is almost honey badger too. pansypoo53219 Apr 2021 #56
Bravo President Biden. I am so proud of him as a leader and as a man. discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2021 #42
As an American bdamomma Apr 2021 #43
Something inside me unwound with this acknowledgement srobertss Apr 2021 #46
My wife's aunt survived the blood bath because a Turkish soldier hid her in his coat. discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2021 #48
About time. Passenger Apr 2021 #49
Welcome to DU! flibbitygiblets Apr 2021 #53

BumRushDaShow

(129,440 posts)
3. I'm waiting on the declaration
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 12:23 PM
Apr 2021

of the "Middle Passage" and "Trail of Tears" (and other atrocities barely taught in history) as being "genocide" in the U.S. But I digress.

DBoon

(22,397 posts)
38. AFAIK, we have done nothing to help Vietnam recover
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 06:55 PM
Apr 2021

no assistance for the ongoing poisoning caused by agent orange

Aristus

(66,460 posts)
39. We definitely owe them reparations for that, and a hundred other things.
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 07:23 PM
Apr 2021

But Vietnam seems to be doing all right. A classmate of mine from PA School married a Vietnamese national, and lives there six months out of the year.

He loves it. He says Vietnam is so beautiful, you can't quite believe your eyes. The people are warm, friendly, and kind, and the cost of living is almost absurdly low.

BumRushDaShow

(129,440 posts)
40. They did
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 07:23 PM
Apr 2021

was pass legislation to allow immigration from Vietnam to the U.S. after the war, where with several generations, there are over 1 million here now.

There is also this (recently updated) - https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-vietnam/

U.S. Relations With Vietnam

Bilateral Relations Fact Sheet

Bureau of East Asian and Pacific Affairs

April 9, 2021


Vietnam remains heavily contaminated by explosive remnants of war, primarily in the form of unexploded ordnance (UXO) including extensive contamination by cluster munitions dating from the war with the United States. The United States is the largest single donor to UXO/mine action in Vietnam, contributing more than $140 million since 1994, and the two countries signed a memorandum of understanding on continued unexploded ordnance cooperation in December 2013. U.S. efforts to address legacy issues such as UXO/demining, MIA accounting, and remediation of Agent Orange provided the foundations for the U.S.-Vietnam defense relationship. The United States and Vietnam are committed to strengthening defense cooperation between the two countries as outlined in the Memorandum of Understanding on Advancing Bilateral Defense Cooperation in 2011 and the U.S.-Vietnam Joint Vision Statement on Defense Relations signed in 2015, giving priority to humanitarian cooperation, war legacy issues, maritime security, peacekeeping, and humanitarian assistance and disaster relief.


Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for my 40 acres and a mule.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,176 posts)
9. I'm sure they'd rather Joe just shut up
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 01:04 PM
Apr 2021

My gawd he might cause some kind of sanctions by Turkey affecting their business! Much bigger market in Turkey than the dispossessed repressed smaller community of their fellow Armenians.

I kept waiting for them to use their (undeserved) insta-wealth and social influence to help the cause of their persecuted fellow ethnic countrypeople. To raise awareness whenever their plight came up in the news. But no.

George II

(67,782 posts)
11. Official statement:
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 01:22 PM
Apr 2021
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/04/24/statement-by-president-joe-biden-on-armenian-remembrance-day/

Statement by President Joe Biden on Armenian Remembrance Day

APRIL 24, 2021 • STATEMENTS AND RELEASES

Each year on this day, we remember the lives of all those who died in the Ottoman-era Armenian genocide and recommit ourselves to preventing such an atrocity from ever again occurring. Beginning on April 24, 1915, with the arrest of Armenian intellectuals and community leaders in Constantinople by Ottoman authorities, one and a half million Armenians were deported, massacred, or marched to their deaths in a campaign of extermination. We honor the victims of the Meds Yeghern so that the horrors of what happened are never lost to history. And we remember so that we remain ever-vigilant against the corrosive influence of hate in all its forms.

Of those who survived, most were forced to find new homes and new lives around the world, including in the United States. With strength and resilience, the Armenian people survived and rebuilt their community. Over the decades Armenian immigrants have enriched the United States in countless ways, but they have never forgotten the tragic history that brought so many of their ancestors to our shores. We honor their story. We see that pain. We affirm the history. We do this not to cast blame but to ensure that what happened is never repeated.

Today, as we mourn what was lost, let us also turn our eyes to the future—toward the world that we wish to build for our children. A world unstained by the daily evils of bigotry and intolerance, where human rights are respected, and where all people are able to pursue their lives in dignity and security. Let us renew our shared resolve to prevent future atrocities from occurring anywhere in the world. And let us pursue healing and reconciliation for all the people of the world.

The American people honor all those Armenians who perished in the genocide that began 106 years ago today.

###

TygrBright

(20,763 posts)
20. Let's kick all the nations with a history of genocide out of NATO.
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 02:13 PM
Apr 2021

Let's see, that's...

America...

Britain...

Germany...


ummm....

Maybe let's rethink it?

ironically,
Bright

Mosby

(16,350 posts)
23. How about we just lower the bar for admittance to actual democracies.
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 02:24 PM
Apr 2021

Erdogan is no different than his mentor, Putin.

He needs to be marginalized on the international stage.

oldsoftie

(12,597 posts)
16. YES; & ask the NBA, MLB, Disney, etc; why they continue working with China
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 02:03 PM
Apr 2021

Since they're supposed to be so "woke' here in the US.

oldsoftie

(12,597 posts)
28. Yes, and thats not an excuse. Do we care or not? I bet Taiwan could make 'em......
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 02:44 PM
Apr 2021

Now THAT would be interesting.

I'm just tired of these huge corporations acting like they care about rights all while ignoring one of the WORST abusers of them. AND doing business with them.

TygrBright

(20,763 posts)
19. Glass houses. Stones...
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 02:13 PM
Apr 2021

America has its own history of genocide. (Not to mention current efforts to revive same...)

Britain has its own history of genocide.

Germany has its own history of genocide - and they have done more than many nations to acknowledge, atone, and try to prevent recurrence.

Ask central African nations about Belgium's history of genocide.

Ask north African nations about France.

I don't think Turkey's rigorous efforts at denial of its own genocidal past are all that difficult to understand.

It's time for all the nations who have wielded power and Imperialism to acknowledge that history, accept the cost accounting, and begin working to atone and prevent recurrence.

sadly,
Bright

 

Mad Kirrua

(46 posts)
21. Excellent and Long Overdue!
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 02:15 PM
Apr 2021

Genocides must always be condemned! In Armenia, Palestine, America, and all other countries!

thucythucy

(8,086 posts)
22. Hitler, when planning the Holocaust, asked his flunkies
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 02:23 PM
Apr 2021

"And who, after all, remembers the Armenians?"

Without acknowledging the past we will never be able to prevent such atrocities in the present or the future.

BeyondThePale

(903 posts)
25. Wonderful news
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 02:27 PM
Apr 2021

Such an important proclamation. A few words, but an enormous accomplishment. Love to all or Armenian friends and family.

oldsoftie

(12,597 posts)
29. I agree. And boy are people offended by it often. Even here.
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 02:49 PM
Apr 2021

Because its a truth people dont like.
I've gotten posts removed that were entirely factual but unpopular!

Carlitos Brigante

(26,505 posts)
30. And the next time that dickbag Erdogan sends his goons out,
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 02:51 PM
Apr 2021

in our own fucking streets, to beat up peaceful protesters. Maybe send out the Secret Service with some baseball bats.......




Although something tells me he ain't gonna try that shit again.... Until the next 'Puke "administration" that is.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,564 posts)
31. From everything I've ever read about that person, it was most definitely a genocide.
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 03:05 PM
Apr 2021

Turkey can call it Fuzzy Bunnies if it wants to, but that doesn't make it so.

SmartVoter22

(639 posts)
32. It's About Time to define Genocide
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 03:40 PM
Apr 2021

Last edited Sat Apr 24, 2021, 04:14 PM - Edit history (1)

The reasons the USA has not called this genocide is anyone's guess.
But, this is a human massacre of great proportions, led by a tyrants against it's own citizens.

If genocide needs a century, to define itself. We are all worse off for that fact.

If we can call genocide, exactly what it is...right away. It's called pressure. We can put on great pressure.
We are better humans, better citizens and standing for justice.

Turkey has always been a political mess, since WWI when some jerks, sitting at desks in London, decided arbitrarily where a nation starts and stops (draw some boundary lines).
Turkey's own cultural diversity was destroyed by these colonialist jerks and the Armenian Genocide is what happens when others try to mandate an entire nation's future.

Let's not go through this again.

mathematic

(1,439 posts)
51. You're blaming the Armenian Genocide on the British? That's sick revisionism.
Sun Apr 25, 2021, 12:24 PM
Apr 2021

Turkey's cultural diversity was destroyed by british colonialists?

No.

The cultural diversity of Thrace and Anatolia was destroyed by Turks. Turks are not from Turkey. They conquered, colonized, ethnically cleansed and genocided the people that were living there for thousands of years before they arrived.

Why on earth are you twisting the history of this region?

Faygo Kid

(21,478 posts)
33. My personal story. Thank you President Biden.
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 03:41 PM
Apr 2021

I was a counselor at a summer camp for Armenian-American children, northern lower Michigan, 1970-73 (Camp Ararat). Learned a tremendous amount about Armenian music (Hinkala), food (yum), and the warmth and achievements of the Armenian people (undeniable). And of course their history.

Not one kid didn't lose relatives in the genocide, and their stories remain with me still, passed down from their parents, their church (St. John's in Southfield, MI) and others. Grandparents, great uncles and aunts, and more - all gone in the genocide. Thank you, President Biden, for speaking the truth about a history that must be acknowledged.

My heritage is a long way from Armenia (Scandinavian), but I am proud to be an honorary Armenian, especially as an American who is proud of and accepts our nation's history as my history. As it should be. And as for the kids back then? I'm assuming they are now grandparents themselves and sharing their family histories. As it should be.

flibbitygiblets

(7,220 posts)
52. FYI, I do not think this post was intended to be hostile.
Sun Apr 25, 2021, 07:29 PM
Apr 2021

"Honey badger doesn't GAF" was a meme several years ago. Honey badgers are fearless bad-asses (think bees stinging them while they get that honey--but they don't even seem to notice).

I believe the intent was to imply that Biden's actions here show that he is also a bad-ass. He does what needs to be done, not minding the stings of the irrelevant "bees" trying to stop him.

Here's the video that started the meme:

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,482 posts)
55. That's excellent!
Tue Apr 27, 2021, 12:58 PM
Apr 2021

Love the honey badger. Reminds me of Biden. Maybe more Dr Jill than Joe but definitely both of them.

bdamomma

(63,922 posts)
43. As an American
Sat Apr 24, 2021, 10:57 PM
Apr 2021

Armenian this acknowledgement from President Biden, is something that Armenians wanted to hear for a very long time. Truth, facts and history wins out right. Thank you President Biden.

srobertss

(261 posts)
46. Something inside me unwound with this acknowledgement
Sun Apr 25, 2021, 01:13 AM
Apr 2021

I’m half Armenian and tried to view US presidents’ unwillingness to call it a genocide as practical. But when I read about Biden’s plans to call it a genocide I found myself weeping. The silence around this has been distressing. I recognize that the US has its own genocidal history to acknowledge, but still this is an important step.

Maybe it will help Turkey to look at this history (probably not, but maybe.) The barrier in talking about this with Turkish people is so frustrating, because they feel like estranged cousins. Turkish was my grandparents’ second language, the food is very similar, and many Turkish people rescued Armenians. One of my great aunts was locked in a church with her Armenian neighbors, and it was subsequently set on fire. It was their Turkish neighbors who rescued them. So the Turkish heroes get no recognition either.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,482 posts)
48. My wife's aunt survived the blood bath because a Turkish soldier hid her in his coat.
Sun Apr 25, 2021, 08:45 AM
Apr 2021

The pogram 20 years earlier was a sign of things to come. When Abdul Hamid II was overthrown in 1908, many Armenians had hope for better treatment. Mistake.

How hard is it to accept that people in your history, maybe famous important people, did awful things? Terrible things happen everyday. I know one reason leaders fail to admit past wrongs is the fear that reparations will destabilize their governments.

What Rambo said about war and genocide:
...we're like animals! It's in the blood! It's natural! Peace? That's an accident! It's what is! When you're pushed, killing's as easy as breathing. When the killing stops in one place, it starts in another, but that's okay... 'cause you're killing for your country. But it ain't your country who asks you, it's a few men up top who want it. Old men start it, young men fight it, nobody wins, everybody in the middle dies... AND NOBODY TELLS THE TRUTH!

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Biden calls mass killing ...