Manchin: I will not vote for $3.5 trillion bill

[demmiblue]

Source: CNN

(CNN)Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin said Sunday he will not support the $3.5 trillion price tag for the economic bill that would expand the nation's social safety net, suggesting he preferred $1 trillion to $1.5 trillion for this bill.

" (Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer) will not have my vote on $3.5 (trillion) and Chuck knows that, and we've talked about this," the West Virginia senator told CNN's Dana Bash on "State of the Union."

"We've already put out $5.4 trillion and we've tried to help Americans in every way we possibly can and a lot of the help that we've put out there is still there and it's going to run clear until next year, 2022, so what's the urgency? What's the urgency that we have? It's not the same urgency that we had with the American Rescue Plan. We got that out the door quickly. That was about $2 trillion dollars."

The spending bill proposed by Biden and his allies in Congress spreads the spending out over 10 years as opposed to the Covid stimulus plans that Manchin referred to, which were more immediate injections of cash.

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/12/politics/joe-manchin-democratic-bill-3-trillion-climate-provisions/index.html

---

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[bucolic_frolic]

1. I still think a compromise will be reached

Infrastructure now, social support at the bottom end permanently, the rest slowly over time.

[jimfields33]

7. Even 2 trillion between two bills is a lot of money.

I just think states will have a hard time distributing funding even to contractors. Look at how difficult states are having giving out rental assistant money.

[Rebl2]

23. Got that right

[LanternWaste]

30. It does not follow

"Look at how difficult states are having giving out rental assistant money..."

It does not follow. Sigh.

[jimfields33]

33. Awesome response.

[olegramps]

19. People should not forget these expenditures are over a ten year period. Hardly catastrophic.

If they are coupled with a reasonable taxation of the extremely wealthy and the drastic concentration of wealth that has taken place it is easily manageable. The fact of the matter is that the Republican Party's successful attack on the unions has enriched them at the expense of the working class. It has lead to the stagnation of wages and no power for which the workers have allowed themselves to be placed. The workers bought the Republicans propaganda campaign of the fraudulent Right to Work Laws and find themselves without health care, no pensions and minimal wages. Apathy results in servitude.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Joe, you're correct. You said you'd vote for a *Four Trillion Dollar* package.

Stick to your guns!

From January, 2021: https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-manchin-trillion-infrastructure-spending-congress-stimulus-2021-1

[FBaggins]

5. Note that this wouldn't be a change

They “spent” 1.9 trillion shortly after that… and the senate has passed another trillion (depending on how you score it) and now he’s saying that another 1-1.5 would get his support. Depending on whether you count the infrastructure bill as 1 trillion or just half that amount (because it isn’t all new dollars) - he’s essentially right where he was in January.

[Fiendish Thingy]

3. Manchin is simply repeating what he wrote a week ago

Don’t listen to a word he says, just watch what he does.

He’s trying to craft a media narrative to get the committees who are drafting the text of the bill to cut it down before it even gets to the floor, and to soften support from the other Blue Dogs. He is hoping to avoid being in the hot seat when Schumer brings the finalized bill up for debate and amendments.

I don’t think Manchin has the guts to single handedly destroy Biden’s agenda, and if the rest of the Dems stay united, he will fold.

[Irish_Dem]

6. I thought we were being manipulated by wasn't sure how. Thanks for your explanation.

Makes sense.

Do you think the other Dems will stay united?

[Fiendish Thingy]

11. I think the odds are in our favor, but wouldn't bet the farm on it

A lot of money can change hands in the next few weeks before the bill comes to the floor.

[Irish_Dem]

13. I am having the same feeling. I am not counting out Biden yet.

I think Manchin is blowing some hot air.

Maybe he has to convince his handlers he is doing something.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

40. Biden and Schumer do not seem worried

That's the cue I'm following...

[Irish_Dem]

41. Exactly.

When they start looking worried, then I will get worried too.

[CrispyQ]

4. A DU thread from yesterday:

https://democraticunderground.com/100215845909

MSNBC unearths clip of Joe Manchin calling for up to $4 trillion in infrastructure spending

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/9/9/2051316/-MSNBC-unearths-clip-of-Joe-Manchin-calling-for-up-to-4-trillion-in-infrastructure-spending

snip...

MSNBC host Mehdi Hasan recently unearthed a clip in which Manchin endorsed, all on his lonesome, an appropriately robust infrastructure investment—up to $4 trillion. And strangely enough, at the time, he wasn’t worried about inflation so much as the significant opportunity costs of not passing meaningful infrastructure legislation.

[Anon-C]

8. Go to blazes, Joe Manchin.

[Jon King]

9. He craves attention.

He absolutely seeks out every camera and interview he can. But if his nonsense causes the Dems to lose the House, he will have zero influence anymore.

[Magoo48]

21. He's a self-serving putz and not a team player, possibly a plant, way right of "moderate",

and, certainly does not fit.

[hedda_foil]

10. This is why.. He owns a coal company!

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100215847137

[vercetti2021]

12. Hey Manchin

[BumRushDaShow]

14. "so what's the urgency?"

Hurricane Ida remnants in West Virginia -

https://www.wboy.com/news/storm-recap-ida-remnants-in-north-central-west-virginia/

Link to tweet

TEXT

NWS Charleston, WV
@NWSCharlestonWV
Rainfall amounts over the past 24 hours exceeded 3" with some local 4" amounts in a stripe from Logan County, WV northeastward to Preston County, WV. A band of 2 to 3" rainfall also fell over SE Ohio. Otherwise, amounts were in the 1-2" range.

#wvwx #ohwx #kywx #vawx
Image
1:45 PM · Sep 1, 2021

Link to tweet

TEXT

Joe Fitzwater
@meteojoewowk
More significant flooding in Clay County, this time over at H.E. White Elementary School in Bomont. Most of that play equipment for the kiddos is new with it being destroyed in 2016. Photos courtesy of Angela Hizer Miller. @SpencerWeather @NWSCharlestonWV @bryanweather #wvwx
Image
Image
Image
Image
12:06 PM · Sep 1, 2021

Link to tweet

TEXT

Joe Fitzwater
@meteojoewowk
The road behind the Clay Tudor’s is washed out as a result of floodwaters along Upper Two Run. Video courtesy of Aiden Taylor. What are you seeing in your neighborhood? #wvwx @SpencerWeather @bryanweather @NWSCharlestonWV
11:37 AM · Sep 1, 2021

Link to tweet

TEXT

Bob Aaron
@BobAaronWCHS
Flooding in Buckhannon. #EyewitnessWV
Image
Image
Image
11:20 AM · Sep 1, 2021

Climate change = more and more of these types of weather events, with more enhanced rainfall and more severe convective complexes.

[TiberiusB]

25. His voting record on the environment is pretty bad

https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/joe-manchin-iii

Despite what the apology brigade moaning that everything is a smear campaign to bring down Manchin believes, the man clearly is compromised when it comes to certain industries, coal among them.

[BumRushDaShow]

26. Well little does he know

that excessive flooding can pretty much kill those mines, especially if you get an "apps runner" tropical storm like Ida that pumped out a lot of rain. The overtopping of any mine waste pits can seep the stuff into the ground water and eventually into the well water of residents who use wells.

The Charleston, WV NWS office said they really dodged a bullet (despite the flooding they did get) but TS Nicholas is now here as of this morning, so we'll see where that will go.

Link to tweet

TEXT

National Hurricane Center
@NHC_Atlantic
Here are the 10 AM CDT Sunday Key Messages for newly formed Tropical Storm #Nicholas. Follow the latest at http://hurricanes.gov
Image
Image
11:13 AM · Sep 12, 2021

[Bayard]

15. Get with the program, Senator,

Or get the hell out of the way.

Manchin is always in the limelight with his bullshit. Where does Sinema stand now?

[Deminpenn]

16. Jmho, but Josh Marshall has the correct take

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/joe-manchin-dc-insider-culture-and-the-long-derply-hand-of-mark-penn

So we have all these theories: Manchin is a crypto-Republican; he’s doing the work of his funders; he and Biden have a secret understanding and it’s all going to work out. My own theory is a bit different. It’s not even my theory. Someone mentioned it to me several months ago. But I can’t remember who. The theory is this: all of Manchin’s actions hold together and make sense if you imagine he got up on a particular day, absorbed the CW of the moment and said the first or second thing that came into his head.

This is admittedly a somewhat diminishing read. But Manchin clearly likes the limelight and he doesn’t pretend to be an ideologue. If you use this framework all the various shifts and turns start to make sense. Manchin is the quintessential Washington player, very much a creature of Washington insider culture with all its shibboleths and conventional wisdoms.

There's also some good stuff about Mark Penn and "No Labels" being his creation.

[Crowman2009]

17. Hey Manchin defenders! Where are you now?

Oh that's right! You're all going: *crickets* *crickets*

[GB_RN]

18. This Is Not $3.5 Trillion All At Once...

Unlike the other stimulus bills, this bill calls for the $3.5 trillion spent over 10 years. His statements - at other times - that he's worried about inflation being caused by this bill are...disingenuous...at best.

[mathematic]

22. He didn't. You should delete your post now that you know it's wrong. nt

[Cryptoad]

24. And he will sit around wondering,,,,

why teh Party treats him like shit after they increase their margin of majoirty,,O!

[IbogaProject]

27. His coal investments

He is stuck with investments in Coal, so he wants nothing that will compete with coal. Green energy is his enemy.

[turbinetree]

28. So does anyone know if the coal companies are still getting a $7.50 per ton tax break....

[Wolf Frankula]

29. Again: Joe, West Virginia voters need this bill

Your constituents want it. Vote for it.

Wolf

[whistler162]

31. Sounds similar to what a group

of condo owners in Miami said!

[bdamomma]

32. He's saying

and doing what the Koch Bros want him to do. What an ass he is!

[jcmaine72]

34. For those who still believe that having Democrats like Manchump is better than having no Democratic

representation at all in places like West Virginia.....

Can you please explain to me how his vote would be any different if Manchin actually were a Republican?

Is it really that important to have someone with a (D) next to their name, even if that (D) stands for nothing other than duplicity????

[drray23]

35. yes it is very important

If you have the majority in the senate, you can set the agenda, decide which bills get to the floor, chair the committees. It's not just about the voting. How hard is that to understand ?

[jcmaine72]

36. Well, if members of that so-called majority side with the minority and empower them instead....

....it actually is hard to understand. I mean, what the fuck good are people like that? Where's the loyalty and solidarity?

Manchump might have said "I do" to the Democratic party, but he sure does love to run off to some sleazy motel with the reThugs every chance he gets.

[FBaggins]

37. Seriously?

You can't think of anything that has occurred in the last eight months that would have been different with majority leader McConnell vs Schumer?

Not anything at all?

[honest.abe]

38. You clearly dont understand the mechanics of how the Senate operates.

The Senate majority leader has tremendous power in setting the agenda and determining what comes to a vote. Recall McConnel blocking the Garland vote for SCOTUS at the end of the Obama Presidency. And then forcing the vote on Amy Coney Barrett at the last minute of the Trump administration. Those two events will change this country for decades.

Also, FYI, Manchin has voted with the Democrats and Biden on every vote brought to the floor this year. A Republican replacement would surely not have done that.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15848156

[AncientOfDays]

39. Perspective

The $3.5T is over 10 years - or $350B per year - we give more than twice that to the Pentagon - and for what?