Scoop: Sinema issues ultimatum to Biden

[Calista241]

Source: Politico

Sen. KYRSTEN SINEMA (D-Ariz.) delivered a tough message to President JOE BIDEN at a private meeting Wednesday, we’re told: If the House delays its scheduled Sept. 27 vote on the bipartisan infrastructure plan — or if the vote fails — she won’t be backing a reconciliation bill.

Sinema is not the only moderate taking this stand. Rep. KURT SCHRADER (D-Ore.) — one of approximately 10 moderate Democratic House members playing hardball with leadership — said he and several members of their group are on the same page. Some of the lawmakers have conveyed that message up the chain to leadership and the White House. A senior Democratic aide confirmed the warnings.

“If they delay the vote — or it goes down — then I think you can kiss reconciliation goodbye,” Schrader told Playbook. “Reconciliation would be dead.”

Read more: https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2021/09/20/scoop-sinema-issues-ultimatum-to-biden-494397

[Walleye]

1. She needs to get a good talking to from madame speaker. One on one

[AZLD4Candidate]

3. Madame Speaker doesn't have any pull over Sinema. Different Chamber

The Majority Leader needs to speak to her, but I doubt it would help.

[getagrip_already]

7. she also has the bulk of her term left to serve.....

The gop expat community will keep her gainfully employed after that, even if we primary her to hell. She has a fortune awaiting her post-senate.

[Walleye]

18. I don't think it's gonna work out that well for her. She doesn't seem too bright

[marybourg]

21. She's actually Dr. Sinema. Just sayin'.

[Walleye]

24. Well maybe she's lacking in political intelligence

[Harker]

33. You're right.

There are innumerable stupid, well educated people.

Being a Dr. doesn't necessarily point to overall intelligence.

[Deuce]

86. Yes, I agree...

[Traildogbob]

42. Dr Phil

Just sayin. The ex White House Doctor, Pez Drug dispenser….a doctor. Dr Dre……

[brush]

83. Why would you include Dr. Dre in that? He's obviously extremly...

intelligent, having worked himself up from the streets to working his musical and producing talents to become a billionaire.

And of course Dr. Dre doesn't claim to be an actual doctor...academic or medical. It's a street nickname.

[Traildogbob]

87. You are absolutely 100 percent

Correct. Dre is a genius, and should not have been included. Was thinking the title of doctor doesn’t mean you are a doctor. Could have used Dr Dolittle or any of the Fox News regular Doctors or Judges or many Harvard Yale lawyers in Senate and Congress, to make the point a title whether educated or not, does not equate to very intelligent. Apologies to Dre and all his admirers and great work.

[AZLD4Candidate]

56. Like Dr. Carson? Being a doctor doesn't make you intelligent

Just like having a PhD doesn't either. Jerome Corsi and Michael Savage have PhDs. So does Condoleeza Rice.

[sdfernando]

62. So she's Dr....

so what and who cares? Ben Carson is a Dr. too (a brain surgeon). T

That doesn't say anything.

[OrangeJoe]

78. Brain surgeon

We all know the sayings about brain surgeons and rocket science, which IS true when it comes to rocket science. Brain surgery on the other hand (as opposed to brain research) is all about fine motor skill and literally nothing to do with intelligence. Brain surgeons make great furniture makers, carvers, needlepoint workers, etc but they aren't necessarily great intellects.

[getagrip_already]

32. being bright was never a litmus test for gop welfare....

Loyalty and helping them are the only tests they are interested in.

She could get dozens of highly paying speaking engagements per year; all to gop audiences. She could get a cushy think tank or lobbying gig. She could get a cushy chair at some university or consulting firm.

Republican welfare is what keeps their side from saying wtf and voting some semblance of conscience once they decide to not run again. They would be giving up millions in welfare grants by doing so.

Brightness need not apply. I'm sure it has been discussed with her already.

[brush]

82. Joe needs to call her bluff. It's pretty apparent she's working with...

right-leaning entities. If the bipartisan bill passes into law, her and Manchin and others will suddenly lose all interest in the reconciliation bill.

I say call her bluff and if both bills fail, tell her there will be an all out effort to primary her when she's up for re-election as she's basically acting as a republican.

[diverdownjt]

90. Nothing wrong with Nancy giving a talking too...

Free Country or so I've been told. Doesn't have to be in an immediate supervisory position...just a little tet-a-tet in
the ladies would do.

[hlthe2b]

4. Sinema's a Senator. Why would she listen to Speaker of the House?

[Walleye]

17. I think she would listen. The speaker can be quite persuasive with anybody. woman to woman

[marble falls]

25. Nice save.

[Walleye]

27. Well I know she's not a member of the house but I think an informal talk may help.Will try anything

[marble falls]

29. You're all good. No doubt, from whatever source: Sinema needs to come to Jesus.

[Walleye]

30. Exactly.

[NCjack]

2. Pres. Biden should "LBJ" her.

[onenote]

14. And how would he do that?

[NCjack]

39. "Perhaps the most defining element of President Johnson's persuasion

was the Johnson Treatment itself—he was willing to push people. For better or worse, he would harangue, threaten, flatter and bully."

see [link:https://www.forbes.com/sites/johncoleman/2018/07/30/the-johnson-treatment-pushing-and-persuading-like-lbj/?sh=5d3309bf420[link:http://|

[onenote]

47. Different times, different people.

Johnson would use his size and intimidation factor (he was nearly 6' 4" and around 200 pounds) as part of his way to push people (and it didn't always work anyway). Biden, both in terms of personality and physical stature, is simply not like LBJ (Joe is around 5'11" and 180 pounds).

Moreover, LBJ was pushing on men. It is not in Biden's DNA to "bully" or "threaten" a woman, particularly one who is only 5'4".

The reality is that Biden has next to no leverage over Sinema.

[KPN]

51. Lol. Size doesn't matter. It's will and strength of personality. Biden wouldn't be President

without those.

[onenote]

54. So you think Joe would be comfortable haranguing or bullying Sinema?

[KPN]

58. I think he has more power of personality than perhaps

some assign him. He has grist and determination in spades. He’s not going to acquiesce to ultimatums from a young upstart Senator from AZ. Have some faith in the guy.

[Polybius]

60. He tried it with Manchin just last week

It didn't work.

Biden bombs on persuading Manchin to budge on proposed $3.5T spending bill

[onenote]

77. Have you ever seen him in action?

I have spent most of the past 40 years working on legislative matters on Capitol Hill. I've been in closed door meetings with Joe when he was a Senator. Yes, he has determination and grit. But his approach to persuading people is not in the slightest based on threatening, haranguing, bullying --- the hallmarks of the Johnson style some think he should use here.

Also, keep in mind that when LBJ was President, the Democrats had large majorities in the House and Senate.

[Mike 03]

88. FWIW, she seems totally indifferent to criticism from Arizonans who supported her.

She truly seems indifferent to criticism, regardless of where it comes from.

She's been trended on Twitter, the recipient of tons of criticism here in Arizona, including in our newspapers.

It really has me heartsick and questioning my judgment, because of all the things I worried about over the last three years, inside betrayal from Sinema was not on my radar. I've read about her background and tried to understand her, but I can't reconcile her past with her present decision-making. After a dozen or so letters over the last year, I no longer even write to her.

[RestoRay]

66. LBJ thought size mattered.

https://www.gawker.com/lbj-was-obsessed-with-his-dick-1694599317

[summer_in_TX]

81. Right. No one would believe a Biden attempt to bully or threaten a woman.

Too nice, too mannerly. Trained up by nuns, for heaven's sake.

I thought he had a very difficult time standing up for himself during the Dem debates because humility is so engrained in him. He especially had a hard time with it against female opponents.

[FoxNewsSucks]

5. I'm so sick of these "conservadems" issuing ultimatums

It's bad enough that one entire party works against America's interest, why the hell would any democrats want to take their side??

[moose65]

37. Makes no sense

Kinda reminds me of those conservative Democrats who voted against the ACA back in 2009, hoping to save their seats. Well, guess who lost their seats anyway?? Yep, those same conservadems. Voting like a Republican will never win you Republican votes.

[Irish_Dem]

46. Yes. Reminds me of those who gave Obama such a hard time over the ACA.

It didn't work out well for them in the end.

[regnaD kciN]

95. ...and it worked out for us even worse.

[Irish_Dem]

96. Right, it was a total disgrace.

A total spectacle with the American people kicked to the curb while ego and money ruled the day.

[BComplex]

80. Money. Lots of republican, and probably Russian and Saudi, money.

Rupert Murdock is well-financed.

[Tomconroy]

6. The Times had a story today about how congress is arguing about

What part of healthcare to salvage: medicaid expansion for Trump states or expanded medicare for all since there won't be the money saved from negotiating drug prices.
Hidden in the story: The 3.5 trillion number is going to be cut substantially. Not just because of Joe Manchin

[LymphocyteLover]

8. with Dems like these...

[Crowman2009]

19. But but but we have 51-seat majority!

I'm so tired of that arguement from these moderate Dem apologists, frankly they deserve a dunce cap.

[LymphocyteLover]

40. it's just like the 60 seat filibuster proof majority we had in 2008 where just one contrary Dem can

fuck EVERYTHING up. See Joe Lieberman or Max Baucus, for example.

[moose65]

59. We never really had that

Al Franken wasn't seated in the Senate until June 2009, I think. Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd were ill and were not in the Senate chamber much. Arlen Specter didn't switch parties till later in 2009.

IIRC we had 60 Senators for about 4 months before Scott Brown was elected in Massachusetts. But I understand your point - it only takes one or two rogues to ruin things for everyone.

[JT45242]

9. Playing russian roulette with a magazine clip

If Sinema and her ilk kill these two bills -- the (R)'s will win by running aginst the 'do nothing democrats' -- they promised all this stuff and then lied to you. The Dems are always the 'do nothing partner' what got passes from 2010-16 that helped you? Nothing. President Obama did nothing to help you. What got passed to help you by Biden -- nothing -- nothing for roads, bridges, or anything else. The Dems do nothing to help you."

McTurtle doesn't even need the filibuster to beat us when Sinema and her ilk will beat us on their own.

The sheer stupidity of this is mind boggling.

Looks like whoever bought her votes got their money's worth.

[jimfields33]

12. If the 3.5 trillion dollar bill goes down then they should send the 1.2 trillion

Dollars bill through. We still can get a lot done.

[Calista241]

20. I would agree. Some of something is better than all of nothing.

And i have a shitload of potholes near my house that need to be fixed.

[regnaD kciN]

97. And that's how it always works...

...a conservadem blocks the important stuff, and progressives are told they have to suck it up and go along, or else it will be their fault if we lose.

I'm sure that will happen again.

And then we'll be punished in 2022 for not having accomplished more.

[OrangeJoe]

79. YEP

You got that right.

[JustAnotherGen]

10. The People of Arizona must not want

Infrastructure - that's all I can think.

If they don't value it, then she won't value it.

[Eyeball_Kid]

11. Kurt Schrader represents my district.

And I'm very interested in seeing a primary challenger to this DINO.

[onenote]

15. As you know, your district is closely divided.

[elleng]

63. Good luck.

As you surely know, he opposes 'Medicare negotiating for drug prices.'

[dweller]

13. Technically

Isn’t she issuing an ultimatum to the House ?
🤔

✌🏻

[Tomconroy]

31. Yes.

[BeyondGeography]

16. Our own in-house form of minority rule

Or how democracy fails.

[Bettie]

74. Sinema seems to have the idea

that she is the single most important human on the planet.

But, she and Manchin may be. They can torpedo Biden's entire agenda just by saying "no"...and they seem to be ready to do so.

[House of Roberts]

22. We're going to be lucky to get passed, a budget via continuing resolution,

and a small increase in the debt ceiling.

[Chipper Chat]

23. If mittens and merkowski Would step up to the plate

And be true loyal Americans we wouldn't need mansion in cinema

[Frustratedlady]

26. I'm sick of Sinema and Manchin with their threats to Biden. Once or twice is one thing, but

this crap has gone on forever.

There has to be some incentive from the Repukes to both unless they think that their objections will make them political stars in the future. I'd never heard of Sinema and was none the worse for it. My first impression was that she wanted the attention, but now I feel it is a game with her just to see how far she can go. I think it's past time for a "thumbs down" type of shunning.

[Walleye]

28. I'm convinced Manchin is feathering his nest for post Senate life

[monkeyman1]

73. flood e-mail , Twitter , f.b. with ultimatum 's they will become un-employed !

sign it - "the U.S. PEOPLE " ! we are all through with their damn games ! just like ronny deathsentence & ABBOTT the mental basket case !

[BradAllison]

34. "I'm gonna dress in a Pikachu costume and stamp my feet!"

She's a fucking disgrace.

Go ahead, alert.

[crud]

35. Might be time to discuss primary challenges

and putting the full force of the administration behind challengers that will support whitehouse agenda.

[WHITT]

36. I Got Your 'Ultimatum' Right Here

[ancianita]

38. Politico deflects -- this is either horse race news re Sinema, or a narrative of Dems in disarray.

Sinema is not the only moderate taking this stand.
Rep. KURT SCHRADER (D-Ore.) — one of approximately 10 moderate Democratic House members playing hardball with leadership — said he and several members of their group are on the same page.
Some of the lawmakers have conveyed that message up the chain to leadership and the White House.
A senior Democratic aide confirmed the warnings.

Are these 10 really playing hardball? Or is this a scheduled script from Schumer. Or is this some media script feed.

Can we really know what sausage making is going on, and why would Politico have its hand on the pulse of all that. If it does, then is this a unified party.

What is really going on here. Is it 'moderates' donors, home state Republican pressures, death threats? Or just hype.

[Xoan]

41. Politico?

[Traildogbob]

43. She left the Green Party

After it was fully exposed as a Russian plant. Jill Stein. So they thought putting a plant directly into Dem party, was a better play. Has ANYBODY ever heard a word from that Green Party over all the disastrous GOP/trump planet destruction? Of course not. It was never real, neither is Cinnamon bun.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

64. You have no idea what you are talking about

She’s been an elected Democrat for nearly 20 years. Not since 2016.

[Traildogbob]

68. She was a Green Party activist

Prior to 2004. During early Bush Jr years. Stein was as well. The Green Party scam has been around for a while, and NEVER fighting for green, except the color of cash. Putin has hosted Stein, openly at Gremlin political gatherings as a leader of the Green Party, Putin, a know warrior of the Green Environmental cause. She WAS indeed affiliated with the Green Party. It’s on record. So, therefor I DO know a “little” of what I am talking about. Little is more than “Nothing”. Thanks for you polite response. Have a glorious day. Senima is a fossil fuel paid for Dem, just like Manchin. The Koch’s will pay for anyone that will play. So will Pootie Pie.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

69. Stein ran for President prior to 2004?

You said Sinema became a Democrat because Stein failed for Russia. Which is patently false. Sinema has been a Democrat since well before Stein met with Putin and ran for President. But don’t let the truth get in the way of your word salad.
And I’m quite familiar with the Green Party rat fucking the Democratic Party. But that Doesn’t mean that Sinema is a “seekrit Russian!!!!”

[Traildogbob]

70. Did not

Say she joined because Stein failed. Never said she was a secret Russian. The fossil fuel trillionairs will pool all their recourses to buy anyone that will keep them in power and stop more planet friendly power sources. Plenty of people willing to be pretend Dems and get paid to protect the industry. Not just GQP. I’m gonna go, you can have the win. A bit of civility in responses would be nice. But you be you. Senima is an attention seeking con, gettin paid. As Spicer would say, “Period”.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

71. Denying you said something when the words are two posts above is rich

Quote:
“ She left the Green Party After it was fully exposed as a Russian plant. Jill Stein.”

And quoting Spicer while attacking a Democrat?

[brush]

84. She was once in the Green party, and that party only exist...

to siphon votes from Dem candidates.

[Mr. Evil]

44. If I was President Biden:

Go back to Oregon today Sen. Schrader and go back to Arizona Sen. Sinema and tell your constituents that they get nothing to their faces. Then explain to them why they deserve nothing. No improvements whatsoever. Nothing! You may as well because I'm going to go on TV later this afternoon and do just that myself. I'm sure they're going to want answers so you might as well pack up and head home to deliver the bad news in person. Tell them why they deserve nothing. I have no qualm in telling them that the interests of a handful of lobbyists is more important than their future and well-being. Have a nice day!

[onenote]

50. What do you think Mark Kelly would think of that strategy?

What would Ron Wyden and the four Oregon Democratic house members think? Kate Brown, the Democratic governor of Oregon

[Mr. Evil]

67. They should be behind President Biden.

[geretogo]

45. No more money for the democratic party until they grow a backbone learn how to message and market

what the party stands for like the GOP . Cut off all support for the two Koch employees , Manchin and Cinema .

[Moebym]

55. ...

Dems have been running TV ads, online ads, and billboards, and top leaders have been traveling all over the country to promote Biden's agenda and talk about what he's already accomplished. What's more, the social-media-savvy progressive wing has been talking up his bills on social media platforms.

Sorry, but I'm not buying this tired "Democrats suck at messaging" argument.

[3825-87867]

48. What's really going on here?

IS..."I'm getting mine and I don't care if you get yours".

Some Democrats use the Party to get elected because they know they can be bought by corporate America to get what THEY want and really don't give one shit about anything but themselves. And the saddest part is not that they don't really care about anyone or anything else so long as THEY get what THEY want, it's that they convince the stupid, ignorant they represent that they're doing in this for THEM!

Republicans, Trump Tramps and Trump Whores are not really that much different from these so-called moderate Democrats.

The ONLY way out of this kind of situation would be to only allow public funds to be used for running for office and even that would be dirtied by the powerful. I'll wait for the air conditioner to kick on in Hell.

The dumbing down of America really is complete...and many, too many supposed Moderate American Voting Democrats and (if it doesn't affect me) Undecideds are graduates of the TV and Media Online University of Reagan.

Diplomas are available in unemployment lines.

[Calista241]

53. I don't think so. I think the numbers are just so big they're scaring people.

$3.5T is a ginormous number, and these Dems are being asked to sign in blood on the dotted line. There's no room for any buyers remorse if things turn out bad.

I also think inflation is scaring the shit out of politicians, and they're concerned it isn't 'transitory.'

I just think there's more here than just "fuck Biden" or "fuck AOC and her ilk" and as long as I can fix potholes and give internet to people, fuck all your shit.

[Dave says]

94. Isn't it a 10 year bill?

So 3.5 trillion is 350 billion a year? We spent about a trillion on national defense in the last (TFG’s) budget; 350 billion pales in comparison. Shouldn’t this be marketed as the $350 billion per year investment in America instead of a $3.5 trillion behemoth?

[Calista241]

98. True, but it's not my fault they're talking in such large numbers.

Maybe they should be calling it a $350b per year deal, but all the messaging is how it’s $3.5t and they negotiated down from $6t.

Manchin and a few others are talking about how true costs aren’t represented accurately, and they suspect the costs will be much higher.

[Dave says]

101. Of course it's not your fault, but your post ...

… made me think. Too bad that things get framed the way they do.

[Xipe Totec]

49. Breaking News, hamster threatens to mug Joe Biden's shoe laces. nt

[ripcord]

52. If one fifth of democratic senators feel like this there is a real problem

Their opinions are going to have to be accommodated.

[AZLD4Candidate]

57. Sinema has abandoned us Democrats here in Arizona

She barely comes and doesn't listen to what we have to say. From what I know from my campaign and the people I speak to, she will be primaried and the Democratic Party bench to replace her when it happens is DEEP!

[regnaD kciN]

99. True...but, by the time she can be removed...

...there's a strong chance that Republicans will have full control of at least one chamber of Congress. They could elect an AOC-clone and it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference.

As a matter of fact, the election where she could be replaced might see TFG being returned to power via voter suppression creating another popular/electoral vote split.

[artemisia1]

61. In other words, she's going to help kill a necessary bill if she doesn't get HER WAY? /nt

[2naSalit]

65. First off, she's NOT A MODERATE!!!

She would do well to recognize that the sun does not rise and set around her patootie. Too full of herself. A rude awakening might be in order.

[flying_wahini]

72. Asking; don't throttle me... Can't Dems and /or DNC withhold re-election funds from these clowns?

[Calista241]

76. Sure, but they have options as well. Either of them could switch parties.

And that would be worse for us.

[brush]

85. They're already acting like republicans. Primarying them...

or threats to primary them might wake them the fuck up to get on board with the party. If they switch what loss is it as they're halting the Biden admin's agenda as it is.

We will lose our majorities in Congress if the two bills don't pass and then the Biden admin will be dead in the water for the rest of his term.

[Calista241]

89. We're likely to lose the House regardless.

Last edited Tue Sep 21, 2021, 02:09 PM - Edit history (1)

With both redistricting and the traditional midterm incumbent funk, our chances of maintaining a 3 seat majority are not great.

[brush]

91. Agreed it'll be close, but we may pull it out if we get some...

infrastructure projects going in critical states. And I mean not just the physical infrastructure but also the human infrastructure on which includes continue the per child monthly payments, the child care program for workers, the universal pre-K, free community college and other benefits.

There's a chance we can pull it out but it'll be tight as the republican party and it's insurrectionist support is going to be in the House Jan. 6 commission's spotlight for the upcoming months.

[Calista241]

92. I don't think the Jan 6 commission will mean jack to the average voter.

At least it probably won't tar new Repub candidates in competitive districts. 97% of the country couldn't tell you who Kevin McCarthy is, much less who Adam Schiff or Zoe Lofgren are.

Any serious Repub running will have a canned answer on how they feel about Trump, Trumpism, or what not, and that same answer will apply in this case.

[brush]

93. IMO the Jan 6 Committee hearings, if damaging revelations come out...

can influence some voter. We have to agree to disagree on that. The repubs being stained as the insurrectionist party can swing suburban voters over just as the blue wave did in 2018. And add in the bills passing, the push back against the republican abortion laws and their anti-vaxx/anti-mask foolishness, who knows?

We'll see. Neither of us knows for sure what will happen.

[regnaD kciN]

100. It would be worse for us in WV...

...where the alternative is likely Manchin or a Republican. Not sure in AZ -- I get the feeling that, if she ran as a Republican, a Democrat would stand a good chance of ousting her.

[LiberalLovinLug]

75. ....