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BumRushDaShow

(128,804 posts)
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 05:09 AM Sep 2021

CDC backs Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine booster shots for millions of seniors and some others

Source: CBS News

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Thursday endorsed booster shots for millions of older or otherwise vulnerable Americans, opening a major new phase in the U.S vaccination drive against COVID-19. CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky signed off late Thursday on a series of recommendations that a panel of advisers made earlier in the day. The advisers said boosters should be offered to people 65 and older, nursing home residents and those ages 50 to 64 who have risky underlying health problems. The extra dose would be given once they are at least six months past their last Pfizer shot.

However, Walensky decided to make one recommendation that the panel had rejected. The panel voted against saying that people can get a booster if they are ages 18 to 64 years and are health-care workers or have another job that puts them at increased risk of being exposed to the virus. But Walensky disagreed and put that recommendation back in, noting that such a move aligns with a Food and Drug Administration Pfizer booster authorization decision earlier this week. The category she included covers people who live in institutional settings that increase their risk of exposure, such as prisons or homeless shelters, as well as health care workers.

The panel had offered the option of a booster for those ages 18 to 49 who have chronic health problems and want one. But the advisers refused to go further and open boosters to otherwise healthy front-line health care workers who aren't at risk of severe illness but want to avoid even a mild infection. The panel voted 9 to 6 to reject that proposal. But Walensky decided to disregard the advisory committee's counsel on that issue. In a decision several hours after the panel adjourned, Walensky issued a statement saying she had restored the recommendation.

"As CDC Director, it is my job to recognize where our actions can have the greatest impact," Walensky said in a statement late Thursday night. "At CDC, we are tasked with analyzing complex, often imperfect data to make concrete recommendations that optimize health. In a pandemic, even with uncertainty, we must take actions that we anticipate will do the greatest good." Experts say getting the unvaccinated their first shots remains the top priority, and the panel wrestled with whether the booster debate was distracting from that goal. All three of the COVID-19 vaccines used in the U.S. are still highly protective against severe illness, hospitalization and death, even with the spread of the extra-contagious delta variant. But only about 182 million Americans are fully vaccinated, or just 55% of the population.

Read more: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cdc-backs-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-booster-shots-for-millions-of-seniors-and-some-others/



Wow. This was breaking at 3 am EDT and a big change was that Wallensky disregarded the "nay" vote for question #4 by the ACIP, and will allow a booster for frontline workers 18 - 64.

As a note, this is the FINAL approval after the recommendations that happened yesterday and posted here - https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142804213

The 4 questions posed for a vote yesterday all passed except for the last one which was this (now overturned by Wallensky) -



Basically people who had Pfizer 2-dose (NOT the Moderna or Janssen (J&J) ones yet) and fit the criteria, and are 6 months or later from their 2nd dose, can go ahead and get a booster.

As I understand from watching the Committee meeting yesterday, the actual recommendation language was going to be tweaked a bit (e.g., including that last one to broaden "institution" to "setting" so it covers more - probably including something like home healthcare personnel who are not operating in a longterm care "facility", etc).
25 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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CDC backs Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine booster shots for millions of seniors and some others (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 OP
I have to wait until J&J comes out. Will need to check if educators count as at-risk workers or not. GPV Sep 2021 #1
From what I recall from the discussions BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #2
I put up a thread about spread in the household and half Tomconroy Sep 2021 #6
Jinx BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #8
That it comes from outside the home is doubtless true Tomconroy Sep 2021 #9
Well sure BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #11
Good... As I posted yesterday, I though Wallensky might (should) put the HCW & other hi risk hlthe2b Sep 2021 #3
Yup BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #4
With the breakthrough infections, and going into the winter, one would think the CDC JohnSJ Sep 2021 #5
Well BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #7
Good overview. The one detail though is that the CDC advisory was more restrictive than the FDA JohnSJ Sep 2021 #16
See this just posted - BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #17
Waiting for a little Moderna booster action over here. Kingofalldems Sep 2021 #10
I'm a Moderna too BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #12
That's good to know. Kingofalldems Sep 2021 #13
Thanks from another Moderna, with hubs having a Moderna booster anyway. ancianita Sep 2021 #14
Well I know last month, Pfizer and Moderna got an EUA approval to boost if "immuno-compromised" BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #15
Right. Hubs went to a Walgreens here in FL for that. I won't qualify 'til the 8th month, I think. ancianita Sep 2021 #18
There is no more "8 month" qualifier or language anywhere BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #19
Cool. I thought they only changed the 8 months to 6 months for those with comorbidities, which ancianita Sep 2021 #20
Listening to both sets of Committee meetings BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #22
I hear you. ancianita Sep 2021 #23
LOL BumRushDaShow Sep 2021 #24
Well since you put it that way... ancianita Sep 2021 #25
K&R question everything Sep 2021 #21

BumRushDaShow

(128,804 posts)
2. From what I recall from the discussions
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 06:23 AM
Sep 2021

"teachers" were included in that "frontline" worker group (i.e., they are in "institutions" or "settings" that have a higher risk for exposure in places that have a high COVID-19 transmission rate). It's just that the Committee voted "nay" on that group but that has now been overturned by Wallensky.

Of course the debate about that question also included that members believe much of the infection spread was not actually happening at those "institutions" (or "settings" ) per se, but were happening "at home", where people are generally unmasked and interacting with their families/friends/neighbors, and contract it there vs randomly in a school or supermarket, etc.

IMHO when you do have those "indoor" places with unmasked people and poor ventilation, then naturally that is where you can still get it, and IMHO that would include schools in douchebag districts that refuse to have mitigation like masking by staff and students.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
6. I put up a thread about spread in the household and half
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 08:02 AM
Sep 2021

Seriously suggesting that's where people should wear masks. The reaction was pretty ugly.
I suppose we just have an instinctual belief that our homes are safe, that an actual physical threat to our safety must come from outside the home. Who wants to believe that our homes are unsafe?

BumRushDaShow

(128,804 posts)
8. Jinx
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 08:14 AM
Sep 2021

I just posted this below in the thread - https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2804506



ETA to note though - the virus is not "spontaneously generated" in the household, so it had to get there SOMEHOW and that is from "outside the home", which then suggests what exactly?

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
9. That it comes from outside the home is doubtless true
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 08:23 AM
Sep 2021

But also irrelevant to the fact that once inside it spreads in the household. But who wants to wear a mask in your home? Not me.

BumRushDaShow

(128,804 posts)
11. Well sure
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 08:47 AM
Sep 2021

that is an issue and it illustrates the "reality" of how people "behave" in situations like this.

The alternate debate point to those 2 was from one member who said that from her training/experience, there is a school of thought to "create a cocoon" around the people who are most vulnerable by adding extra protection to those closest to them who can be exposed from pathogens "from outside". That way, it reduces the chances that "outside-exposed" people could pass it on to those who either can't get vaccinated (like an obvious HUGE group - "children under 12" or others who are allergic and/or whose medical conditions preclude it) or to those whose vaccinations aren't producing sufficient antibodies to successfully fight an infection.

So that argument suggested making sure people are boosted at a high level to minimize their ability to transmit the virus - whether in the workplace or at home.

I know there are a few DUers who have posted that they do mask at home, for whatever their circumstances - particularly in cases where you have shared space and a family member (or members) have themselves been exposed (or work in places where exposure is guaranteed like a hospital) and/or tested positive.

hlthe2b

(102,216 posts)
3. Good... As I posted yesterday, I though Wallensky might (should) put the HCW & other hi risk
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 06:31 AM
Sep 2021

worker recommendation back in. She was wise to do so.

BumRushDaShow

(128,804 posts)
4. Yup
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 06:36 AM
Sep 2021

because I know the blow-back would have been fierce if that had not been done. Lots to have to absolve for the "Get vaccinated, throw off your masks indoors, and go hug your grandkids" recommendation.

JohnSJ

(92,122 posts)
5. With the breakthrough infections, and going into the winter, one would think the CDC
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 07:30 AM
Sep 2021

advisors would error on the side of precaution, and accept the FDA recommendation that front line workers should be included in receiving the booster

I think Rochelle Walensky is correct in taking the FDA advisors recommendations over her own CDC advisors.

With the breakthrough infections, going into the winter months, along with evidence of waning protection, even with incomplete data, Including front line workers who deal with the public is the prudent thing to do. Do they not remember that it was those front line workers in nursing homes, who contributed to spreading the disease in convalescent homes?

I am very disappointed in the CDC at the beginning of the pandemic when they were discouraging the public to use masks. It was a completely irresponsibly recommendation.

Even assuming their reasoning was because the supply of N95 masks was not abundant, that should not have stopped them from recommending any other kind of face covering.

Also, if that was their reasoning for not recommending masks, they should have been up front with the public


BumRushDaShow

(128,804 posts)
7. Well
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 08:13 AM
Sep 2021

as a former scientist myself, sciencey people, and that includes physicians (I was in many classes with pre-med majors as a chem major myself) are not always "people people", and often engage in "black or white" thinking with little shades of gray. For many things, they were taught that way for their fields. And one would think that someone who plans to be a doctor one day would also need to be a "people person" if they intend on actually working with patients (at least those who deal with patients who are not under anesthesia ).

But as many of us have experienced, doctors can run the gamut of being overly clinical, cold, and even nasty, to being effusive, gregarious and often (thankfully) trained through extra "workshops" on "listening" and "communications" skills.

When you hear the oft-used term "follow the science", that is where things can break down because when presented with a specific set of "facts", the "scientists" might interpret what those "facts" mean very differently.

As an example - say you work in an office with no windows and have been deep in some project all day and finally get a break, so you head outside for a bit to maybe pick up some lunch and you notice the sidewalks are all wet and the sky is overcast. Well you could then "assume" -

1.) sidewalks are wet therefore it rained

But then as you walk around outside, you eventually find that the streets are dry and then you spot a big landscaper pickup truck that has a huge 500 gallon water tank in the truck bed and there's a guy standing nearby with a hose attached to the tank spraying the flower beds nearby with water, and the runoff is wetting the adjacent sidewalks. Now you have found that your original "assumption" was "wrong" because you apparently "didn't have ALL the 'facts'".

There were 2 fairly vocal "objectors" among the ACIP members who basically felt that when it comes to transmission of the virus, they insist that "most of it" is coming from the "home environment" and not from a workplace exposure. So they feel there is no need to give people boosters based on their occupations and risk of exposure to the general public at a workplace, and they believe it is basically "hype" (or I think I heard the term "hysteria" or similar used) to assume people are contracting the virus in the workplace.

Yet (IMHO and from what I have heard from them during other meetings) they never pipe up about recommending that if they feel that way, then they should recommend that people should "mask up" at home.

I agree that you probably have much of the spread happening at home but what gets neglected from that argument is - "Well then how did the people 'at home' contract it in order to spread it 'at home'"? It sure as hell didn't "spontaneously appear" in someone's home. It was BROUGHT there from somewhere by someone exposed to it "outside of the home".

THAT is where the "in areas of high 'community transmission'" factor should take precedence.

JohnSJ

(92,122 posts)
16. Good overview. The one detail though is that the CDC advisory was more restrictive than the FDA
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 10:40 AM
Sep 2021

advisory, and none of these advisory panels have to live with the decision, the CDC director does, and she will be held accountable. She erred on the side of caution. I believe teachers are also included in this and a few other front line workers who feel at risk.

The bottom line is these boosters are not taking the vaccine away from The Who haven’t been vaccinated. There is enough supply, and we are sending million of vaccines to those who need them. It isn’t an either or situation


BumRushDaShow

(128,804 posts)
17. See this just posted -
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 10:52 AM
Sep 2021
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142804583

The 3rd paragraph of the OP part touches on the conundrums.

The vote for that broadened category was actually relatively "close" (6 "yes" - 9 "no" ) where there were 2 consistent "no"s who seemed to continually be outliers of the group. I.e., they seem to have locked onto a belief that "spread in the workplace" is "very rare" and the vast majority of infection comes from "home".

I do expect a large percentage of spread is happening "at home" but their complete dismissal of workplace spread - particularly in areas of high transmission, with unmasked loons running around ranting and raving in stores, some even purposely coughing and spitting on other people near them, needs to be factored in.

BumRushDaShow

(128,804 posts)
12. I'm a Moderna too
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 08:57 AM
Sep 2021

but so far, Moderna has actually been found not to wane like Pfizer so it might actually not be needed right away!





ETA, the above are from the slide deck presented to ACIP Thursday and available here (PDF) - https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-9-23/03-COVID-Oliver.pdf

BumRushDaShow

(128,804 posts)
19. There is no more "8 month" qualifier or language anywhere
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 12:08 PM
Sep 2021

It's 6 months for what was just authorized and actually "28 days after the 2nd dose of the 2-dose mRNA vaccines" for the earlier EUA in August -

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is currently authorized for emergency use in individuals ages 12 and older, and the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine is authorized for emergency use in individuals ages 18 and older. Both vaccines are administered as a series of two shots: the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is administered three weeks apart, and the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine is administered one month apart. The authorizations for these vaccines have been amended to allow for an additional, or third, dose to be administered at least 28 days following the two-dose regimen of the same vaccine to individuals 18 years of age or older (ages 12 or older for Pfizer-BioNTech) who have undergone solid organ transplantation, or who are diagnosed with conditions that are considered to have an equivalent level of immunocompromise.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-additional-vaccine-dose-certain-immunocompromised


-And-

CDC recommends that people with moderately to severely compromised immune systems receive an additional dose of mRNA COVID-19 vaccine at least 28 days after a second dose of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine or Moderna COVID-19 vaccine.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/immuno.html


The "8 months after" thing was done during a "joint statement" by those HHS agencies back in August, in anticipation of the final decisions for "the rest of the public". Those decisions happened last Friday by FDA and yesterday by CDC, where earlier there had been talk about whether to use "8 months after" or "6 months after", and the final guidance settled on the "6 months after" and narrowed the scope of eligible people.

ancianita

(36,018 posts)
20. Cool. I thought they only changed the 8 months to 6 months for those with comorbidities, which
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 12:19 PM
Sep 2021

is why I didn't qualify. So I thought the 8 months immunity strengthening still stood. It's all good.

BumRushDaShow

(128,804 posts)
22. Listening to both sets of Committee meetings
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 01:40 PM
Sep 2021

and looking at the questions they voted on, there was no "8 months" language in any of them.

I think that might have been thrown out there as a reaction to Biden's stated desire to get boosters approved for everyone "by September 20" and the fact that some of the people who were the earliest vaccinated (back in late December and through January), would be at or close to being "8 months" post-2nd dose for Pfizer, by the time the decisions were expected to be made this month (September).

ancianita

(36,018 posts)
23. I hear you.
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 08:53 PM
Sep 2021

I didn't see the hearings and will take your word for it. Not trying to be right, anyway, just going on the assumption that when Biden set Sept 20 as a booster start date, that he was going by some science advice and practice on booster use, and the rest of us would get ours 8 months after our second shot, which puts me into December.

But it's fine. No one's in a position, from the president to the rest of us, to hold any fairly new work on a new virus by some hard and fast standard. Besides, the whole world needs these vaccinations, and I can wait.

BumRushDaShow

(128,804 posts)
24. LOL
Fri Sep 24, 2021, 09:07 PM
Sep 2021

That to me, was a "boss" giving a "deadline" to come to some decision.

I think he's trying to literally jam as much as he can in now while he's got the momentum because no one knows what is going to happen next year and he knows Congress will soon be out campaigning ,and it will be even more difficult.

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