Tribe wins major step toward resuming whaling off Washington

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

By GENE JOHNSON

SEATTLE (AP) — An administrative law judge has recommended that a Native American tribe in Washington state once again be allowed to hunt gray whales — a major step in its decades-long effort to resume the ancient practice.

“This is a testament to what we’ve been saying all these years: that we’re doing everything we can to show we’re moving forward responsibly,” Patrick DePoe, vice chairman of the Makah Tribe on the remote northwestern tip of the Olympic Peninsula, said Friday. “We’re not doing this for commercial reasons. We’re doing it for spiritual and cultural reasons.”

DePoe was in high school in the late 1990s when the Makah were last allowed to hunt whales — occasions that drew angry protests from animal rights activists, who sometimes threw smoke bombs at the whalers and sprayed fire extinguishers into their faces.

Since then, the tribe’s attempts have been tied up in legal challenges and scientific review. A federal appeals court ruled in 2002 that the Makah needed a waiver under the Marine Mammal Protection Act; the tribe applied for one in 2005 but still hasn’t received one.



CORRECTS DATE OF RULING - FILE - In this May 17, 1999, file photo, two Makah Indian whalers stand atop the carcass of a dead gray whale moments after helping tow it close to shore in the harbor at Neah Bay, Wash. An administrative law judge on Thursday, Sept. 23, 2021, recommended that the Makah be allowed to resume whaling along the coast of Washington state, as their ancestors did. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson, File)


Read more: https://apnews.com/article/business-environment-and-nature-native-americans-animals-washington-1e59d580efb106daa6cb10e3d83251a6

[msongs]

2. as long as they use the same tools they used 500 yrs ago in keeping with ancestors nt

[Hugh_Lebowski]

4. Yeah, no I still don't like it ...

Unless it was the only way for these people to survive, then okay.

I hate whaling, period.

[Calista241]

8. Tools used 500 years ago prolong the pain and suffering of whales selected for hunting.

Modern weapons, if they are used, can shorten the time to die for selected whales.

Personally, I do not approve of whaling under any circumstances, even for tribal traditions. It's barbaric, cruel, and unnecessary.

[LT Barclay]

69. They don't, so I don't know where the appeal to "tradition" comes from. They are using boats with

outboards, and rifles to kill the whales. They do paddle out for show and strike with a harpoon.
If that is what they want their "culture" to be based on, then it deserves to die out.

I'm sure the tribe makes some money on tourism. I hope the people in Washington spend their money elsewhere.

[H2O Man]

3. Good.

Recommended.

[OnlinePoker]

5. Just because you can hunt doesn't mean you should hunt

Some "traditions" need to die and stay dead.

[Cobalt Violet]

14. We can start with the "tradition" of colonization of Indigenous people.

Just because you can colonize Indigenous people doesn't mean you should.

[OnlinePoker]

15. It's done and there's no going back from that.

However, the indigenous peoples have the ability to be better people than we were by refusing to kill sentient creatures.

[Cobalt Violet]

16. Nothing is "done" about it. You won't take their culture.

They're practicing their culture and you need to get over it. You can't dictate what you want then to do. You act as if colonizers don't have factory farms, slaughterhouses and the USA is a Vegan Nation.

[The Jungle 1]

22. Can you hear me now

"They're practicing their culture and you need to get over it."
Well that is the age old issue and you are correct. But but but they are not doing things our way so it must be wrong! We should kill them.
Freedom means living your life however you want and it also means minding your own business!
For 20 years we told Afghan people how to live. Didn't work and it never has. Their army stood down in 11 days. Have we learned anything yet.
For people to call Native American culture barbaric is disturbing. It is also very surprising to see on this forum. Calling them barbaric is the reason we killed millions of Native Americans. It was a genocide. That is our history and no amount of soap will make it go away.
Fact: The Gray whale is not on the endangered species list. Neither are chickens or cows.

[Cobalt Violet]

24. They're not commercial opportunists.

How dare they hunt for food, clothing, and not for $$. Maybe if we force their kids into schools we can assimilate them into being compliant consumers with no culture. Oh, wait...that didn't work.

[Cobalt Violet]

25. It's extremely offensive to call them barbaric.

I'm sure whatever they chose to hunt/eat would offend these Supremacists.

[Jakes Progress]

32. Would it be barbaric

to gather cats by the hundreds and burn them alive? That was a part of the ancient tradition for Europeans in the Middle Ages.

Now Europeans celebrate their ancestral costumes and dances. They have fetes and games and eat traditional dishes. They stopped killing animals needlessly because they stopped being barbaric.

Dancing and laughing on the rotting body of a majestic animal that you killed is barbaric.

[Happy Hoosier]

53. With all due respect...

Last edited Mon Sep 27, 2021, 03:19 PM - Edit history (1)

... the fact that practice is part of the culture of an indigenous people does not mean that practice can be practiced without restriction. And while it's true we colonized and seized this land a couple centuries ago, the history of humanity is rife with conquest. It's even likely that the ancestors of these people took the land from someone else at some point. We should act to cease such actions, of course, but let's not pretend that that the last successful conquest was the only wrong one.

In my view, whaling is just plain wrong.... cultural traditions or not. Plains natives also used to hunt Bison by driving them off cliffs. Also not acceptable by modern standards. If that makes me an imperialist, then I'll accept that label.

[maxsolomon]

89. The Makah did indeed take their territory from another tribe.

The Quileute, Hoh and Chimakum were linguistically linked and occupied the N end of the Olympic Peninsula.

Then the Makah/Klallam invaded, presumably from Vancouver Island. The Quileute are a very small tribe now, despite their fame from the Twilight novels.

The Chimakum were wiped out by Puget Sound tribes in 1857. The War Party was led by Chief Seattle.

[LT Barclay]

70. There have been gaps in whaling of almost a generation at least twice. They've had to dig around to

find anyone who could teach these "trraditions", yet the culture seems to have survived quite well without this particular tradition.
If this is really so central to their culture that they it won't exist without it, then the culture will die out naturally as they become more enlightened with regards to what they are harming.
The Inuit in Alaska were able to make the shift toward saving a group of trapped gray whales and they would be far more dependent on them for food than the natives of the Pacific Northwest.

[treestar]

75. The laws are the same for everyone

regardless.

[Submariner]

6. Standing on top of a whale carcass

Whooping and hollering has zero to do spiritual or cultural anything.

It is clearly celebrating an unnecessary kill in a shameful way. Killing marine mammals when other less rare and threatened species is available should be common f’ing sense. It’s the 21st century, grow the f*ck up.

[Owl]

21. Exactly

[Cobalt Violet]

28. How Supreme of you to judge everyone else's culture.

[Submariner]

30. I spent a career speaking for those very few that can't defend themselves

from the 8 billion overpopulating the planet.

I put the status of critters and our natural resources way way above any ancient or current cultural proclivities.

[Jakes Progress]

33. How "supreme" of you

to celebrate barbaric slaughter. How supreme of you to assume that Native Americans cannot evolve to more humane behavior just as much as others. I have a higher regards for their intellect and humanity than to think that the only way they can celebrate their heritage is to dance on dead animals.

[EX500rider]

45. Some cultural practices were brutal then and are brutal now and can be judged so.

[Happy Hoosier]

54. Is any action justifiable if it can be defended as a "Cultural" practice?

Genital mutilation? Slavery? Ritual animal cruelty?

There is obviously a line in there somewhere. Where do you think it is?

[Sympthsical]

101. I was about to go with genital mutilation as well

So many fun things that are a part of culture!

"It's their culture!" is not the catch-all the poster seems to think it is.

Indigenous tribes did all kinds of things we wouldn't want anyone else doing in this day and age. It feels like we have some patronizing racism via the Noble Savage trope happening here.

[treestar]

76. Some are more advanced

would you defend ME cultures that make women cover up entirely or execute them for adultery or fornication? That is their culture after all.

[XanaDUer2]

55. Yes nt

[Jose Garcia]

100. At what point in history did this tribe start "whooping and hollering?"

[onethatcares]

7. how do they use it in culture?

to me the strength of the whale lies in the power it possesses while alive.

Do they use the oil to light their homes?

I don't understand this and sure as hell don't support it.

[jmowreader]

11. They use every part of it

They eat the flesh and blubber.

Use the oil for ceremonial lights. (They have electric lights in their homes. They DO live in the 21st Century.)

Make things out of the bones.

If they could figure out how to use the whale's last breath, they would.

By the time they are done, there's absolutely nothing left of the whale.

AND...they only kill one a year.

[onethatcares]

18. thank you

I didn't realize they only kill one a year for ceremonial purposes.

Again, thank you.

[jmowreader]

43. Yes, it's done in the summer

There are only 1500 Makah and, if they’re allowed, they hunt one whale a year as part of this big ceremony they have. They do it the way the first Makah did, out of canoes, and only the most traditional men of the nation are allowed to participate.

Most of the time they live on fish, but seals are also part of their diet. The Puget Sound is thick with seals so eating them actually improves the ecosystem, since seals will decimate a fish population if given the chance.

By the way…if you’re in Makah territory don’t bring any weed with you. Their small part of the Olympic Peninsula is under their own laws, and cannabis is still illegal there.

[maxsolomon]

88. I don't believe the Makah are allowing any outsiders on their Reservation, period.

Because of Covid.

The Quileute have relented; they need the income.

[LT Barclay]

71. That was in the past. The last kill was not so and much of the meat rotted.

[Jakes Progress]

9. How about other "ancient practices".

Like animal sacrifice. Or blood feuds. Like killing left-handed children. Or female genital mutilation.

I had ancestors who kept slaves. Should I petition the court to maintain that "ancient practice"?

Barbaric and disgusting.

[Cobalt Violet]

17. howabout howabout howabout howabout

[radicalleft]

19. Deflect if you can't answer the question

Weak response...

[The Jungle 1]

23. Well let me help with some of my stupid musings.

American freedom means living your life however you want and it also means minding your own business!
For 20 years we told Afghan people how to live. Didn't work and it never has. Their army stood down in 11 days. Have we learned anything yet.
For Americans to call Native American culture barbaric is disturbing. It is also very surprising to see on this forum. Calling them barbaric is the reason we killed millions of Native Americans. It was a genocide. That is our history and no amount of soap will make it go away.
Fact: The Gray whale is not on the endangered species list. Neither are chickens or cows or deer or pigs. Pigs in particular are a very smart animal. No more bacon for you radicalleft.
How about the fact that Christians go to Church on Sunday and eat the body of Christ. Is that barbaric?

[Jakes Progress]

38. The headline to your post is apt.

So you celebrate cultural traditions? Do you celebrate the slaughter of Native Americans as a part of Western European culture? How about the Southern tradition of lynchings?

How about the wholesale destruction of the American Bison as a means of starving out Native Americans?

Then there is the tradition of clubbing baby seals on the ice. That one of your proud traditions to uphold.

There is nothing backward or slow about Native Americans. They can evolve past the tradition of ritual slaughter. I have faith in their intelligence and humanity. How about you?

[The Jungle 1]

49. You call it slaughter they call it culture.

Words are funny and can cause problems. Do you eat meat? That is a very important question if I am to accept any of your argument. If you do eat meat then you also slaughter. Pigs are very very smart and tasty. To tell others the harvest of some animals is slaughter but the harvest of a different animals is just fine is not a good argument.
My post clearly states that what we did to the Native Americans was genocide. Not sure how you missed that. We also gave native Americans small pox blankets. That was biological warfare. I am not sure how you make the leap that the genocide of Native Americans is culture? I do not think of warfare as culture. Your question regarding southern lynching is just plain insulting and mean spirited. I am here to debate issues I am not here to insult others.
I also did not say anything about Native Americans being slow.
My faith in humanity is tempered by my study of history.
I do not agree with the killing of any animal if the meat is not going to be used for food or feed. It is called wanton waste and is illegal in many states.
Alaska:
Chapter 92 Statewide Provisions
(a) Subject to additional requirements in 5 AAC 84 - 5 AAC 85, a person taking game shall salvage the following parts for human use:

Article 20 Definitions (17) "edible meat" means, in the case of a big game animal, except a black bear, the meat of the ribs, neck, brisket, front quarters as far as the distal joint of the radius-ulna (knee), hindquarters as far as the distal joint of the tibia-fibula (hock), and the meat along the backbone between the front and hindquarters; in the case of a black bear, the meat of the front quarters and hindquarters and meat along the backbone (backstrap); in the case of wild fowl, the meat of the breast; however, "edible meat" of big game or wild fowl does not include meat of the head, meat that has been damaged and made inedible by the method of taking, bones, sinew, incidental meat reasonably lost as a result of boning or a close trimming of the bones, or viscera;

I am against pigeon shoots and seal killing and all wanton waste. Pigeon shoots are still legal in my state of Pa. and they are common.
I do believe that this is a cultural issue and I also understand the Native Americans use all of the Whale. Again I ask do you eat meat.

[Cobalt Violet]

60. Funny Im vegan and I defend Indigenous rights to hunt/eat/exist as they chose.

I'm sure all these outraged supremacists stuff their faces with bacon.

[Jakes Progress]

66. So.

You don't get the meaning of the word hypocrisy? Or you feel that you are evolved, but these people are not capble of your enlightenment?

Do you support he rights of rednecks to beat dogs until they will kill each other in a ring? There's a culture for you.

[Jakes Progress]

65. You have a low opinion of them.

Barbarically slaughtering an animal and dancing gleefully on its carcass is not a very aspirational culture.

Why is it you think they cannot evolve past barbarism? Why do you not believe they are capable of the same humane behavior we require of society? Do you think they are backward or unable to reason?

[The Jungle 1]

72. You do not want to have a reasonable conversation or answer a simple question.

Clearly you eat meat and support the slaughter animals. For some reason you think you are on a higher level.
Again I do not come here for confrontation.

[Jakes Progress]

74. How is your diatribe reasonable?

There are many cultures that have suffered abuse. They evolve nevertheless. I don't think that these people are beyond that. I can list dozens of barbaric traditions that have been eliminated from cultures as they grew. The people that were dancing on the whale's carcass do not need that dead animal for food. There are alternatives to he joyful killing of wild animals.

And yes, the enslavement of conquered people is cultural. If you are the student of history that you claim, you will know that. Lynchings were a definite part of the culture of the Southern states. Dog fighting, though banned, is still practiced. Why would you list whale slaughter as cultural but not other uncivilized behaviors.

While, in the past, the whale was a necessary part of the diet of indigenous peoples in some parts of the country, that is not the case now. If the pigeons and seals were eaten after the shoots and clubbing, would that then make them okay to you? How about if the degenerates who run dog fights, cut up the losing animal and barbecued it?

You take on the mantle of superiority when you get to decide when cruelty is okay and when it is not.

As a meat eater, does it matter to you if the animal cried in pain and fear as it died? Does it matter to you if the creature left their young to die without food or protection? If a hunter wants to eat a deer, but leaves wounds six deer before a kill, leaving arrows in the wounded to fester and kill slowly, is that cool with you?

I don't support cruelty. I don't support gleeful, painful death of animals. There are sources of farm protein that do not involve cruelty. You can find them if you really care to look, though I will tell you that finding a source for mature, pasture raised beef is difficult. It will also cost more - as it should.

You do not seek a reasonable conversation if you think your question is a simple one.

[The Jungle 1]

81. Simple yes or no do you eat meat?

You make a lot of unsupported accusations about what you believe is OK with me. You pick these mean accusations out of thin air. A lot of politicians also do that. Hear it a lot on Faux news. Just so we understand each other the only hunting I do is at the market.
It is just a fact that the Gray whale is not on the endangered list.
You insinuate that you eat beef. Do you know how the animal is put down. Is it stunned and then cut to bleed out. Which can take several minutes. This is the most common procedure and is called sticking. How about our Thanksgiving turkey. Do you know how it is put down. I bet you don't want to know. Do you eat eggs. Go visit a chicken farm and then talk to me about cruelty. Or do you only eat free range eggs?
If you eat meat then you are just as cruel as the native Americans killing whales. It is just a different animal. Do you wear leather or use any leather?
Yea hunters do celebrate after a successful hunt and we European Americans celebrate Thanksgiving by cutting the head off a live turkey. We just get someone else to do the deed. Then we go buy it when it is in the sanitized plastic wrap so we think we are not cruel. Is that one of the barbaric traditions you speak of ending?
I do not understand the method of assigning a higher humanity value to some animals. For example pigs are considered smarter than whales. Free Wilbur!

[Jakes Progress]

96. You are quite uniformed

about things you think you care about. You need to read about sustainable agriculture and animal husbandry.

Sticking is not the most common way used to "harvest" beef. Read Temple Grandin. I do not eat turkey because I cannot find a place where they are humanely treated. My chicken and eggs come from places where the animals are raised and killed humanely. I pay more for them. You need to learn a lot more about your food if you think that just because a carton says "free range" it is raised humanely. It is even more expensive to obtain grass-raised beef that has never seen a feed lot. So I eat less of it. I do prefer beef because one dead cow will supply food that would take many dead chickens. I eat very little meat, but I do make sure that the protein I eat is from humane sources.

Animals are a part of he human diet and always have been. But we have grown past the time of need for gratuitous pain and fear. We don't have to spear and jab and cut and bleed animals. You can grow past that. You just have to care. I noticed that you avoided answering my "simple" questions. You argued that torturing a whale to death was okay because it would be eaten. You did not answer whether barbecuing a dog defeated in a dog ring would make that practice palatable to you. You also ducked the question about the clubbed baby seals. By your argument, the only problem with that practice is that the killers didn't eat the seals. You didn't answer my "simple" questions. Instead you undertook to lecture me on how animals are brought to the table, even though your lecture was virtually fact free. Yes, there are inhumane animal slaughter houses where knuckle dragging morons harm the animals. You can help end those abattoirs if you spent the time and money to support humane sources of protein. As Temple Grandin has said "Nature is cruel. We don't have to be."

[treestar]

77. Why?

How do you get around the fact that the Native American cultures are less advanced? And this practice is barbaric. And they are US citizens who have to follow the law like any others.

[Jakes Progress]

34. Wow. Just so eloquent.

Any chance you could respond to my post with ideas and points of discussion instead of just blubbering?

[Owl]

27. It is indeed barbaric and disgusting.

And wholly unnecessary.

[Cobalt Violet]

58. are you a carnivore?

[The Jungle 1]

73. Wonder why no one will answer that question?

[Coventina]

84. I will! I don't eat meat. Whaling is barbaric. It is not OK for ANYONE to do it. nt

[The Jungle 1]

85. OK thanks for your answer

If you want to have a conversation then I have a question or two.
Do you believe all sources of animal protein harvesting should end? You know where I am going with the question. By the barbaric standard being applied to whales then all animal protein harvesting is barbaric.
Because of the negative view of hunting we are over run with some critters. Geese and deer for example. How do you propose we control these populations so they are not putting us at risk?
Just an FYI. Calling another persons culture barbaric is probably not a good thing to do. I bet the Native Americans find it very offensive.
Gray Whales are not on the endangered list.

[Coventina]

87. Yes, I think all animal "harvesting" i.e. slaughter should end.

We are not overrun by deer and geese due to "negative view(s) of hunting." It is due to the elimination of natural predators.

Bring back the natural predators and nature will re-balance itself quickly. Repeated studies have shown this.

I suppose, in your defense of "culture" that you are fine with child marriage and FGM?

[The Jungle 1]

91. Why would you say that.

"I suppose, in your defense of "culture" that you are fine with child marriage and FGM?" Where in the world does that insult come from. That is way out there and a very sick accusation. Circumcision is also genital mutilation. My sons were not mutilated and I try and educate others on my life path. I do not support either type of genital mutilation. I thought we were talking about whales?

Humans are a natural predator! Repeated historical studies have shown this.
However I do agree there were fewer predators. Due to good game management they are on the rebound. Not sure I want grizzles harvesting in my woods. It is also disturbing when Mountain lions harvest joggers. I was also unhappy with the Barracuda that kept stalking me on my last dive. It went on for twenty minutes. Would I be allowed to defend myself under your no slaughter rules. Sharks like the taste of surfers. I guess we just need to stay out of the ocean. Are you also against fish protein? How about bugs? Can I kill the bee that stings me. How about ticks? How about termites.

This is America so you are free to pursue ending the harvesting of animals.

However consider this study:
It's something that plant lovers have long suspected, but now Australian scientists have found evidence that plants really can feel when we're touching them. ***********************

Not only that, but different sensations trigger a cascade of physiological and genetic changes, depending on the stimulation the plants are receiving, whether it's a few drops of rain, or a little soft pat,
FIONA MACDONALD

Wonder how they "feel" about food processors?

"Unlike animals, plants are unable to run away from harmful conditions. Instead, plants appear to have developed intricate stress defense systems to sense their environment and help them detect danger and respond appropriately," says Van Aken.

All of this information could be essential to plants survival in the wild, the researchers explain in the journal Plant Physiology.

So now what will you eat? Plants are alive! I bet grass hates mowers. Ya know your salad is screaming as you chew and of course I have to go with, at least my meat is dead. Now who is barbaric?
Try not to get mad and attack let's debate.

[Coventina]

93. You are defending "culture." Well, FGM is a cultural practice.

I am always going to defend other species against humans. Always. We have damaged this earth and obliterated species for our comfort. I am never going to take the side of humans. Ever.

Sharks do not like the taste of surfers. That is untrue. Talk to a marine biologist and they will set you straight on that.

I really don't care about the tiny percentage of people killed by wildlife. We've eradicated species after species. If another one gets a few of us, who cares? Most of the time, such encounters are the result of human stupidity. Guess what? Darwin is right. People with stupid genes tend not to survive.

You make good points about plants. As we continue to learn more about the creatures around us, our eating habits will have to continue to evolve. The Jains had it right all along, I suspect.

[The Jungle 1]

94. Well um

I know sharks don't like surfers that is why they spit them out.
If we can't eat plants and we can't eat animals? Well um.
It is called nature.

[Coventina]

95. The Jains have survived for thousands of years by

causing the least possible harm to other creatures, including plants.

Our superior (in comparison to most species) intelligence comes with the responsibility to use that intelligence to cause the least harm. Anything else is pure selfish cruelty.

[The Jungle 1]

97. We do have areas of agreement.

I support moving toward lower impact farming. I do not believe what we are doing can be sustained.
If the oceans continue to heat up there will not be any whales to hunt. Problem is we are unable to convince half our country that climate change is even happening.
That said I do not believe we can feed the world using the Janis diet.
What Americans don't understand is what the results of climate change will be. As economies collapse people will immigrate. There are things we can do. Stop supporting the fossil fuel industry with massive corporate welfare. Stop supporting the sugar industry with massive corporate welfare. Stop supporting the ethanol industry with massive corporate welfare. Etc. Then redirect those dollars to food production that can be sustained. Our food production is already socialized and price fixed we just need to make some adjustments. Easy to say.

[shrike3]

105. I do agree we should bring back the natural predators.

A PBS program, can't remember the name of it, focused on studies that show the healthiest ecosystems depend on the existence of predators.

[shrike3]

104. Yes. Consuming a plentiful domestic animal specifically raised for meat is different

than consuming a non-domestic animals whose future is in doubt.

[Wolf Frankula]

10. Men wanted for hazardous sea duty.

Able seaman, missile man, gunner. Good pay. Interesting work.

Wolf

[SKKY]

12. When I lived in Whidbey Island, I learned a good bit about the Makah...

...and this is something that is almost spiritual to them and their culture. The process they go through just to get ready for a "hunt", and the reverence they have for these creatures, I don't have a problem with this. I mean, I wish they didn't need to, but I get it. And I'm going to sit this one out and let everyone else fight about it amongst themselves.

[caraher]

13. Like it or not...

- The tribe has a long-established treaty right to hunt whales (not allowing this should result, at a minimum, in reverting ceded lands back to the tribe).

- Denying them this right will save zero whales (there is an international quota and indigenous people across the Pacific are already taking the full quota; if the Makah kill a whale that will simply reduce the available whales remaining in the quota for other whale hunters).

- Nobody from my culture (broadly, Americans of European ancestry) has much standing to decry this practice on grounds of environmentalism, given that the Makah have been far more sensitive to threats to the gray whale (voluntarily suspending whaling in the 1920s in the face of excessive kills by commercial whalers).

- Similarly, it's simply not the place of non-indigenous people to pass judgment on what does or does not pass muster as having spiritual or cultural significance to the Makah.

Like it or not - and I can see lots of reasons not to like it - the Makah have every legal and moral right (cultural preservation) to seek this, and what they wish to do is certainly not more barbaric or environmentally hazardous than any number of routine activities that are legal in this country. The Makah web site gives their account of whale hunting and all it means and entails.

There is a very thorough LA Times piece on this from a couple years ago that lays out the issues for both sides; it's well worth the read. Some excerpts:

a quota from the International Whaling Commission allows Russian and U.S. tribes to kill an average of 141 every year. The Russian Chukotka tribe has largely hunted the annual maximum quota. The two or three whales the Makah could claim would come from this quota — so their take would come from animals already targeted.

The last hunt is probably the model to expect for future hunts:

The tribe used a combination of modern and traditional techniques. The initial harpooning was done from a canoe. When the whale was struck, more harpoons were thrown — all attached to floats — to keep the whale from diving.

A rifleman on a nearby motorized boat then shot the whale in the head with a .50-caliber armor-piercing assault rifle — providing a large enough blast to break through skull and pierce the brain. The shot was followed by a second.

The use of a gun allows for a quick, humane death, according to Allen Ingling, a retired professor of veterinary medicine at the University of Maryland, who was hired by the Makah to study quick, efficient and humane methods of killing.

[bucolic_frolic]

20. If you want to live in the past, forsake the present

[Cobalt Violet]

26. this is their present culture.

get over it.

[Jakes Progress]

35. I think they are more capable than you do.

Many cultures have evolved beyond ritual slaughter in their culture. I have faith that these people can too.

Do you celebrate bull-fighting? Cock-fighitng? Dog-fighting? Then there is bear-baiting. And clubbing baby seals to death.

Can you address any of these?

[Cobalt Violet]

39. It's. their. diet. They don't have to eat what settlers dictate they eat.

You're not superior.

[EX500rider]

46. "They don't have to eat what settlers dictate they eat."

Really, European colonists have lived in Washington State since the 1840's, they are no longer "settlers" after 180 years.
After 7+ generations you are native to the area now. Unless you think they can never be native in which the Makah themselves are Asian settlers.

[Cobalt Violet]

47. they're colonists.

[EX500rider]

50. Well since American tribes all came from Asia so are they.

[Cobalt Violet]

57. No they didn't. They where here.

[EX500rider]

61. There were here since their ancestors came over from Asia.

I've been here since my ancestors came over from Scotland....over 10 generations ago. I am certainly not a settler but a native born citizen of North America.

[jcmaine72]

63. "There were here since their ancestors came over from Asia."

Exactly. Technically, all human beings are "colonizers". The "but we were here first" argument doesn't give humans, no matter what part of world they live in or what culture they adhere to, carte blanche to abuse nature. Animals cannot consent to human cultural activities and should not be forced to participate in them, especially violent ones.

We need to stop slaughtering all animals and help our world to heal. We've done so much damage already, some of it irreversible.

We must evolve.

[Jakes Progress]

64. So they have starved for the last couple of decades?

They genetically can't eat anything but whale? Is that what you are going with.

If they weren't allowed to slaughter whales and dance on the carcass, then they must have eaten something else.

Dude. You just don't have a leg to stand on.

The Native Americans are just as capable of learning and growing and adapting as you or I. Stop minimizing their abilities and intelligence.

[ripcord]

29. Another treaty the U.S. was violating

[JohnnyRingo]

31. I don't think there's an essential use for whale oil anymore.

Considering that, it seems they just want to hunt for the sport of it, not the needed resources their ancestors harvested. I doubt anyone comes to Sunday dinner hoping to see a whale steak with blubber gravy anymore, regardless what they say. I know deer hunters who beg people to take venison for months after the hunt.

Make them stop.

[Cobalt Violet]

41. you're wrong about that.

just keep speculating on what sovereign Indigenous people should do.

[JohnnyRingo]

56. Wrong about what?

That they need whale oil, blubber, or whale meat to survive?
Whaling seems too much like deep sea fishing for dolphins or hunting for mourning doves.
Sometimes there's no reason to kill something.

[Mz Pip]

36. Nope. Not okay

Cultures that involve brutalizing other beings need to evolve. There is no reason for any culture to remain static.

[Cobalt Violet]

40. Like the culture of this Settler Colony called the USA?

Colonists don't get to dictate what sovereign people's culture and food sources are.

[Mz Pip]

62. So you're okay with this.

It’s just a whale. No biggie. Cultures get to do what they want.

You okay with the Confederate flag? Southerners claim it’s part of their culture and yay, no whales are harmed.

[Jakes Progress]

37. Anything can be called a cultural or religious tradition.

We have stopped many bloody and insensitive rites. We have evolved past this kind of blood and slaughter. All humans can.

There are other ways to celebrate you heritage and culture.

[NickB79]

42. To the world's Hindus, my cheeseburger addiction would appear barbaric

As the millions of vegans and vegetarians have shown us, meat isn't an essential part of our diet, and killing any animal for food isn't essential to our survival in a modern world.

The only real issue with this is whether or not whales rise to a level of sentience beyond our typical wildlife and livestock. Killing another sentient lifeform close to our level would be the moral question to answer here.

[brooklynite]

44. The horns of a dilemma...

Cultural rights vs animal rights.



Seal clubbing okay as well?

[Cobalt Violet]

48. If only colonizers got upset about the Indigenous women murdered.

[brooklynite]

51. So, as long as someone oppressed me, I can oppress someone else?

[Jakes Progress]

67. Ah. The straw man argument. Sure sign of having lost.

How about addressing the issue in the post you to which you replied?

But you can't. To do that you would have to defend clubbing baby seals. Do you support that cultural practice?

Hiding behind the tragedy of indigenous women is a nasty thing to do. But then if killing their wives and daughters could be called a cultural activity, I guess you would have to support it.

(Two members of my family work with tribal councils to document the disappearance of so many Native American women. We have met many of the tribes people and had dinner with them. In contrast to your portrayal of them as backward and unenlightened, some of them are vegan also. I guess you would have us stuff whale flesh down them so that they would be culturally appropriate. Because I have friends in this community, I am really resenting your concept of their level of intelligence. I and really resent you using the deaths of these women as a strawman hiding place when you run out of ways to avoid defending your position.)

[MFM008]

52. All this did before in the 90s

Was cause massive protests and discontent.
Its 2021 not 1851. Whaling is obsolete.
They will get nothing but trouble if they do this again.
Shooting it with a 50 calibur gun last time wasnt exactly tribal methods either.

[GusBob]

59. This thread brings me great joy

I love love love it when Natives do things to assert their tribal rights

And I love how it drives non Natives nuts.

Go Makeh Tribe!

[Mosby]

92. Dead whales bring me no joy.

I think religions need to leave animals alone.

[betsuni]

68. I remember reading about this years ago, and Makah women said it was a man thing.

For them it's the 21st century, not interested in whale hunting.

There's a nice Makah museum in Neah Bay.

[XanaDUer2]

78. Thanks for the insight. Nt

[Steelrolled]

79. Live and let live.

It sounds like this is a very small number of whales, and they are not endangered. I am happy that these people can carry on their tradition. Perhaps one day they will stop, but that will be their decision.

[jeffreyi]

80. No.

[leftyladyfrommo]

82. Nobody needs to hunt whales. Not even Native Americans

We humans need to leave the sea creatures alone.

[XanaDUer2]

83. Humans do all sorts of cruel things in the name of culture

animals don't have agency to agree to participate in human cultural traditions

[XanaDUer2]

86. Kick nt

[XanaDUer2]

90. Kick nt

[Mysterian]

98. I hope the tribe members come to realize the cruelty of killing whales

and stop the barbarism.

[Kaleva]

102. Most of us don't have an issue with the killing of animals .

The vegan-meat eaters battles here are testament to that.

[Mysterian]

103. Mankind is rapidly depopulating the world of wildlife, including whales

While creating a new world for cattle, sheep and pigs.

[XanaDUer2]

99. Kick nt