Manchin says his spending limit is $1.5 trillion

[Calista241]

Source: The Hill

Centrist Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) announced on Thursday that his top-line spending number for the budget reconciliation package is $1.5 trillion, far below the $3.5 trillion spending goal set by the budget resolution that he and every other Senate Democrat voted for last month.

Manchin confirmed that he signed a memorandum of understanding with Senate Majority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) at the end of July setting $1.5 trillion as his spending limit for President Biden’s Build Back Better agenda and explained he did so as a precondition for voting for the Senate budget resolution in August.



Read more: https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/574715-manchin-says-his-spending-limit-is-15-trillion

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Not mentioned in the article, but was mentioned at his presser was that he won't support any legislation that does not include the Hyde Amendment language.

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. His spending limit or the remaining Koch bros spending limit?

I dont know how to talk HONESTLY about him and not bash him at this point.

[FalloutShelter]

2. Fine...fully fund everything in the BBB

to the extent of 1.5 trillion... three years... four... . then in 2024 run on your accomplishments and deliverables and let the voters decide if they want more of the same.

Stop focusing on the size and begin to figure the time limitation out.

[Demsrule86]

3. That is a very good idea.

[FalloutShelter]

5. Don't forget that Social Security. had to be phased into permanence.

[qazplm135]

12. From what I can tell

All he wants to do is revert the Trump tax cuts and... that's it. He's full on deficit hawking it.

Which ain't compromise.

[Fiendish Thingy]

31. That seems to be the most sensible compromise

I think they could fund it up to five years, especially if they put in some mild form of means testing.

Hopefully Schumer and Sanders have thought about this…

[TiberiusB]

62. I believe it's an issue with using reconciliation to pass the bill

Reconciliation requires budgeting the cost out over a 10 year window, which, naturally, is pounced upon by the GOP and the press to scream about deficits.

[andym]

64. Well- can't be made to sunset after 4-5 years, so that the 10-year window rule is still satisfied?

and it still comes out near $1.5T over the whoel period since it is 0 for the last 5 years?
Then it would need to be renewed after the 4 years.

[honest.abe]

4. I say take it and run.

We can always add to this at a later opportunity if things go well.

[JohnSJ]

13. I agree, of course we don't know what Sinema wants

[monkeyman1]

49. more donations ! "duh "!

[dsc]

6. So if this was known in July when didn't we act like we knew it in July

apparently he gave his number, back in July. I say then we fund the number of years that 1.5 trillion will do. My guess is at least 3 meaning that 2024 we get to run on do you want this stuff or not.

[FBaggins]

9. That's the $64,000 question

We've known since January that anything significant would have to pass through reconciliation and that there was at least one senator on the fringe of the party who was most likely to balk at the most progressive policies (I confess that Sinema was a surprise to me, but we all knew about Manchin). The obvious question is "how could we (in general... Sanders in particular) even think of drafting a plan that didn't have Manchin significantly on board?

The $32,000 question is how did Sanders think that he could get away with lying about an "agreement" with Manchin if he knew that the only reason he got to right the bill in the first place was because Manchin had a signed deal with Schumer?

I say then we fund the number of years that 1.5 trillion will do.

The deal included more than just the topline figure.

[True Blue American]

15. Sinema

Was having a long conversation on the Senate floor, then another woman walked up, joined them,.Sinema talked with both of them, then took off. She is hard to miss in her sun dress in October.

[berni_mccoy]

23. Obviously because Manchin had no intention of honoring

What he put on paper in July. He spent a Saturday in September at McConnell’s home town. Wonder what he was doing there.

This top line number was denied by Manchin less than a week ago and he said the language of the bill is to “social” (istic)

[dsc]

26. actually he has been honoring it so far

the fact is, after reading the document, his demands seem to be entirely consistent (baring the late demand of the Hyde Amendment)

[berni_mccoy]

27. Not really. He would have said this much earlier if that was the case

Instead he’s been giving weasel words in response to direct questions and the revelation of which would have facilitated progress.

[dsc]

30. I agree he hasn't publicly owned his position for whatever reason

but what he set down in July, is consistent with what he has said publicly (though he hasn't said everything publicly).

[FBaggins]

41. I don't think that makes sense

The deal included a lack of debate on the topic before this point and was made to allow the Senate committees to being work on a reconciliation bill. Would it have been appropriate for him to publicly argue based on this agreement? Schumer obviously didn't want it made public. Manchin should respect that until it got to the point that people were claiming that he wasn't telling anyone what his real position was.

[berni_mccoy]

44. Manchin said yesterday that the Bill was irresponsible regardless of the amount

He trashed it as being too socialistic. He has no intention of supporting what he wrote on that worthless piece of paper.

It doesn’t make sense to you because you’re ignoring what Manchin is saying publically.

[FBaggins]

28. Even the Hyde Amendment position

He's been saying that in public all the way back to the start of the year. Not just reconciliation. He says that he won't vote for any bill that violates it.

[OnDoutside]

33. I suspect he had to add up all that his donors told him to take out.

It takes time and money to do that

[rurallib]

7. So shorten the horizon to 4 years and get that puppy going!

Electing Dems to keep the works project going for another 6 years in 2024 would be a great campaign

[Hoyt]

8. Wish we'd quit using 10 years as measure for legislation.

[Miguelito Loveless]

10. Yep,

Change the bill's time scale to 2025 and then chuck his ass and Sinema's out. We'll most probably lose WV, but it is pretty much lost now. We have a shot at keeping AZ.

[FBaggins]

11. Politico included a copy of the deal

https://static.politico.com/1e/ef/159cabd547868585f9b1a8f06388/july-28-2021.pdf

[Raven123]

14. All the BS from the GOP about deficit reduction and a Dem puts it in writing

[Raven123]

16. Clearly the plan was to pressure the progressives. Why the theater?

[IronLionZion]

17. The poorest Americans live in his state

and they would appreciate some infrastructure

[Autumn]

19. His state should get nothing. Not one damn dime. That what they voted for, that's what they get

ZERO.

[IronLionZion]

20. I wish we had more Dems in the Senate

so that important stuff wouldn't get held up by these 2 selfish divas

[Autumn]

29. So do I, but I doubt it will happen. If the majority can't get shit done that is campaigned on

that does not inspire people to get out and vote. Especially where the pukes have made voting difficult.

They are worse than selfish divas, they don't give a shit if the pukes gain control again.

[monkeyman1]

50. " you nailed it " !

[Deminpenn]

38. Saw recent polling that BBB is wildly popular among

WVa residents.

[IronLionZion]

39. Better Business Bureau?

[Deminpenn]

40. Sorry, Biden's Build Back Better plan

The 3.5T infrastructure plan.

[IronLionZion]

47. Ah, yes. but Manchin claims inflation is killing his constituents with high prices.

I believe the benefits they get from infrastructure would far outweigh any losses from inflation.

[Deminpenn]

61. Current inflation is caused by supply and demand

Once the supply chain stabilizes and pent up demand subsides, it will resolve. Inflation is not being caused by too much money in circulation from federal spending or Federal Reserve actions.

Further, iirc, all federal benefits come with COLAs, so those receiving them will get a raise in Jan 2022.

[FarPoint]

18. Okay.....

I hate him....

[budkin]

21. He literally has no specifics on the reason for the amount

It's just a number.

[FBaggins]

42. Untrue

It was far more than just a number.

And it was in writing two months ago with his signature and Schumer's.

[budkin]

55. I mean specifically what we'll get for 1.5. I know the 3.5 was priced out

I'm not defending Manchin I'm saying his "1.5" trillion has NO SPECIFICS.

[FBaggins]

58. You mean he didn't actually write the bill for them?

That's hardly surprising.

But it was far more than just "anything that doesn't cost more than 'X'"

People have been complaining for several days now that he won't even give them a dollar figure... when he did far more than that. They just don't like what he gave them.

[lagomorph777]

22. What if we slip in a billion to pay coal companies to build wind farms on their flattened mountains?

He could take a hefty cut from that.

[Ka-Dinh Oy]

24. I am probably breaking a rule here.

I think Manchin is vile. So is Sinema. I finally said it.

[OnDoutside]

35. What's amazing is that none of their Dem colleagues have said it.

So far.

[SWBTATTReg]

25. Every single one of those states that have republican governors who are spending Fed ...

dollars regardless of spending directives/guidelines provided by the Feds (one state spending the money on prisons instead) should have the money deducted for that state and instead, given to other states. Thus, instead of the original $4 Billion price tag, we can get by w/ less money that we know will go to deserving states that will reinsert the money into their more prosperous economies, that have a higher velocity for money in their states' economies, thus the money will go further.

[Deminpenn]

32. Biden should hold a presser and announce no deal can be reached

so no votes on either bill.

Watch how fast Manchin and Sinema backtrack.

[Calista241]

34. Nah, he shouldn't do that.

If one of them calls him on it, then his admin is effectively over, except for what judges we can nominate and approve in the next 14 months.

[Deminpenn]

37. At some point, their bluff has to be called

You know what the drumbeat in the media will be if the 3.5T bill isn't the one that's passed.

[Calista241]

45. Has she not had our back in the past? She cast all the correct votes in her history as a Senator.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

54. Who voted against the 15 dollar minimum wage.

She doesn't have the backs of the working poor.

[Steelrolled]

59. Why make things even worse?

Biden needs to just keep working to get the best deal he can.

[Deminpenn]

36. I wish more of the media would point out this 3.5T is over 10 years!

That breaks down ton 350B/yr. Compare to the DoD budget which is 700B/yr.

Also compare 350B to the US yearly GDP that is well over 20T.

[kirby]

48. I wish more of the Democrats would point that out!

Democratic messaging sucks! We never learn.

[H2Oart]

43. so

So how many of us on DU are centrist/moderate democrats and how many are progressive. I say lets start with the 1.5 trillion, but pay for it over 3-4 years. Cant this be applied now and if there needs to be additions, we add later....the fucking roads and bridges have been collapsing for years now, and this is one of if not the first major bill, except for the Obama shovel ready bill during the 2007-08 market collapse. We need to act on these collapsing infrastructure NOW, not in the next session, when we may lose the Senate, or in 24. Lets get a deal now.

[wiggs]

46. Manchin approach is typical and backwards. GOP tends to look at overall spending amount

and sets limits based on some sort of tolerance of the total amount....WITHOUT consideration of what the NEEDS are.

Goverment should decide FIRST what the needs are then find a way to fund them...rather than figuring out how much you're willing to spend then trim the needs to fit. Backwards.

[BlueIdaho]

51. Typical of Manchin

Pull a number out of his ass and try to justify it later. He needs to forfeit all committee assignments and be given a broom closet for an office. Same goes for Sinema. Put them both on an ice flow and let the ocean finish them off.

[ColinC]

52. Perrfect! Keep everything in the bill and fund it for a little less than half the time.

And then pass further funding when you have the votes. Works for me if it works for him. But somehow I still think like Manchema is gonna change their minds quicker than a fly to poop.

[rickyhall]

53. Dear Senator Manchin: It's not your fucking money.

[Jon King]

56. He represents 0.5% of the population.

Our political system is so far from a democracy it is pathetic.

[Drum]

57. I grew up in WV

I sayyyyy fuck Manchin

[RussBLib]

60. Well, $1.5 trillion is still HUGE

Take it, pass it, hopefully get it thru the Senate, then campaign on what goodies are still in there.

[madinmaryland]

63. $1.5 Trillion..... over four years. Make it come up for renewal in January 2026.