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brooklynite

(94,591 posts)
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 10:02 PM Oct 2021

Dems punt House infrastructure vote in blow to Biden agenda

Source: Politico

The House voted Thursday night to temporarily reauthorize transportation funding, abruptly reversing course after Democratic leaders earlier vowed to pass a bipartisan Senate-approved infrastructure bill.

The move came after progressives refused to relent in their opposition to the $550 billion infrastructure bill amid a standoff over Democrats’ separate, party-line $1.75 trillion social spending measure. It followed a visit to Capitol Hill by President Joe Biden, who personally asked House Democrats for their support on both the infrastructure plan and the separate social policy framework.

But Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her leadership team were ultimately unable to win over dozens of dug-in liberals in time for a Thursday evening vote. House liberals said they want to review the legislative text of $1.75 trillion social spending legislation the White House outlined Thursday and get a commitment of support from centrist Sens. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.) — something the two have not outright given.

Despite an aggressive whipping campaign from Democratic leaders, as many as 30 liberal Democrats threatened to block the roughly $550 billion Senate-passed infrastructure bill, according to multiple people familiar with the vote-tallying operation. As House Democrats headed home for the weekend in defeat, many were infuriated and left wondering how they had stumbled yet again, pointing fingers within their own party.


Read more: https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/28/biden-house-democrats-517416
88 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Dems punt House infrastructure vote in blow to Biden agenda (Original Post) brooklynite Oct 2021 OP
nice analysis/opinion piece nt msongs Oct 2021 #1
yes n/t left-of-center2012 Oct 2021 #5
Let the DU fingerpointing begin... luv2fly Oct 2021 #2
I blame the 50 Republican Senators and everyone who spooky3 Oct 2021 #4
The bill is being held up by a few members of the House, and it's not the Problem Solvers Caucus. George II Oct 2021 #15
Yup. Meanwhile Biden heads to the Climate conference where world leaders come with their Budi Oct 2021 #20
It's not like the world leaders did what they promised to do the last time, though. Justice matters. Oct 2021 #50
Right. There's clearly no point in holding such a conference Budi Oct 2021 #58
Not saying that. Kick big money OUT of politics, then we'll talk. Justice matters. Oct 2021 #87
We need to lead. JudyM Oct 2021 #74
I'd Settle For RobinA Oct 2021 #81
We will continue to fall behind unless there's real progress, because the wheels of climate change JudyM Oct 2021 #84
The bill is being held up by a few members of the House who are doing their job. Autumn Oct 2021 #73
It was fixed before you decided to "edit" it for me. George II Oct 2021 #76
That's a matter of opinion George. I'm of the opinion that voting for a bill not knowing what will Autumn Oct 2021 #77
As Speaker Pelosi said yesterday (paraphrasing) "they wanted text, the text is up there." George II Oct 2021 #78
If the text is there there should be no problem. nt Autumn Oct 2021 #79
Exactly. We're now at a point where all 50 members of the Senate Democratic caucus.... George II Oct 2021 #82
Got a link to the text? Until I see it I will consider that the Progressive caucus is Autumn Oct 2021 #83
The Progressive Caucus accepted President Biden's framework on Thursday... bluewater Oct 2021 #85
I don't, and I'm not sure if it's out in the public domain yet, but Speaker Pelosi said yesterday... George II Oct 2021 #86
"Moderates?" ColinC Oct 2021 #44
Yup. Baitball Blogger Oct 2021 #59
We have found the enemy: its us. We are our own worse enemy. olegramps Oct 2021 #65
Biden needs to just pull the bill. it's obviously not going to pass. Drunken Irishman Oct 2021 #3
Biden rso Oct 2021 #7
At this rate, I'm dubious. Drunken Irishman Oct 2021 #9
Biden rso Oct 2021 #8
I think both will pass. Elessar Zappa Oct 2021 #10
Yup. And Name every legislator who stalled, blamed & held it up, denying Americans this gift Budi Oct 2021 #12
You Have Put It Perfectly Me. Oct 2021 #19
And this comes as he heads to the world Climate Conference with nothing to offer from his country Budi Oct 2021 #27
+1000000, it is so disgusting Nixie Oct 2021 #42
So Hypocritical Me. Oct 2021 #49
They are popping open champagne at the corporation & oligarchs Lobbying Offices Tonight. twin_ghost Oct 2021 #6
This is the 4th time I believe that the Speaker has promised a vote was going to occur that same day MichMan Oct 2021 #11
Really getting tired of Politico's negative spin on everything Democratic, and it's already gotten.. George II Oct 2021 #13
Pelosi keeps making promises that she's not delivering on. Drunken Irishman Oct 2021 #16
Because she doesn't have the fking votes when it comes close to the day to call the vote Budi Oct 2021 #30
Then she needs to stop promising they're going to vote on it. Drunken Irishman Oct 2021 #31
Its not Pelosi. Its the sabators fking with the bill. Delay, Demand, Ok, No.... Budi Oct 2021 #32
It doesn't matter. Drunken Irishman Oct 2021 #34
Its not Pelosi causing the shit stirring bs. Stop blaming her & finally blame the ones doing it. Budi Oct 2021 #36
Okay. Drunken Irishman Oct 2021 #43
It's her job to call for the vote. She's just doing her job. littlemissmartypants Oct 2021 #51
This just isn't true. Drunken Irishman Oct 2021 #54
I'm pretty sure optics are the least of her worries. And I firmly stand behind my statements. littlemissmartypants Oct 2021 #55
You're wrong. Drunken Irishman Oct 2021 #66
Dying on the hill named Misogynistic Disrespect is hardly noble. littlemissmartypants Oct 2021 #68
Oh no! Not ignore! Drunken Irishman Oct 2021 #70
That's because members of her caucus keep making promises they're not delivering on. George II Oct 2021 #71
THIS 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻 LenaBaby61 Oct 2021 #46
All the spin is negative moose65 Oct 2021 #67
Why is this bill framed as a Democratic problem... Bluethroughu Oct 2021 #14
It passed 68 to 32 jimfields33 Oct 2021 #18
Huh? Bluethroughu Oct 2021 #24
That was passed In the senate. The house said no for the 4th time jimfields33 Oct 2021 #45
Not sure of the procedure here, cilla4progress Oct 2021 #17
REally Me. Oct 2021 #21
Well yeah but she's got their sensitive bits cilla4progress Oct 2021 #23
Shhh, that doesn't help with the "Democrats are in disarray" memo JohnSJ Oct 2021 #41
Democrats snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Lasher Oct 2021 #22
It Is So Dispiriting Me. Oct 2021 #25
Correct me if I am wrong left-of-center2012 Oct 2021 #26
No . .... Lovie777 Oct 2021 #29
I don't listen to right-wing news sites left-of-center2012 Oct 2021 #37
Politico is RW .. Lovie777 Oct 2021 #47
This message was self-deleted by its author left-of-center2012 Oct 2021 #52
Lately it seems little isn't. nt littlemissmartypants Oct 2021 #56
Agree 100%. orangecrush Oct 2021 #63
Politico is actually left-center. Lasher Oct 2021 #72
If reports are to be believed,... LudwigPastorius Oct 2021 #35
I'll take that as a 'yes'. n/t left-of-center2012 Oct 2021 #38
Goddamnit! This is getting ridiculous. LudwigPastorius Oct 2021 #28
Being a Republican is so ez,,, Cryptoad Oct 2021 #33
This has got to be playing very badly with Americans Bayard Oct 2021 #39
Nice spin from politico. I guess they didn't hear Rep Jayapal, and I would trust her assessment JohnSJ Oct 2021 #40
Pretty much . .. . Lovie777 Oct 2021 #48
Congratulations on another angst producing, quickly hijacked product. nt littlemissmartypants Oct 2021 #53
Americans are determined to destroy themselves and do not deserve Biden. Jon King Oct 2021 #57
That group of reps are fighting for us, Marthe48 Oct 2021 #60
Noble until it all goes south and they/we get nothing. That's the risk. Vinca Oct 2021 #62
I don't think it'll be nothing Marthe48 Oct 2021 #75
Politico gets it wrong again Deminpenn Oct 2021 #61
Yup. nt KPN Oct 2021 #80
Thank you Progressive Democrats orangecrush Oct 2021 #64
Representative Sarandon, is that you? JustABozoOnThisBus Oct 2021 #69
Aaaahhhaaah! Thanks - this thread need it Budi Oct 2021 #88

George II

(67,782 posts)
15. The bill is being held up by a few members of the House, and it's not the Problem Solvers Caucus.
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 10:28 PM
Oct 2021
 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
20. Yup. Meanwhile Biden heads to the Climate conference where world leaders come with their
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 11:00 PM
Oct 2021

..their nation's proposals & commitments in hand.
This delay has now cost our US President the very proposal he intended to offer on behalf of the US.

Way to fking go. !!
Maybe Joe can take a quote from those house members holding it up, and in his speech before the world leaders convince them that "Nothing is really better than something"
Cuz that's the very message they sent him as he leaves for the 1st serious global conference on Climate.

Go ahead Joe, you go into that conference with nothing to bring to that global climate table as you sit with dignitaries & leaders, all prepared to propose what their country's generously offer as they all take this matter serious.
US Congress members apparantly don't even give 2 shits about their President telling those serious leaders that the US has nothing to offer

Thanks for nothing Congress.

Justice matters.

(6,930 posts)
50. It's not like the world leaders did what they promised to do the last time, though.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 01:19 AM
Oct 2021
None of the previous objectives and promises came to reality.

Not only that, fossil-fuel emissions increased instead of meeting their reduction targets.

You can have all the proposals & commitments you want put on paper and signed, but if once back home, you do nothing significant enough to enforce them, you'll get increases instead of reductions.
 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
58. Right. There's clearly no point in holding such a conference
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 03:04 AM
Oct 2021

..so it doesn't matter that he's got nothing to bring to the table as to what his nation is currently doing about climate.
No biggie. That whole climate conference is a wash anyway, because last time it was just a useless meeting, by the description you provided.

So you're saying its a pointless meeting & no big deal that President Biden is attending so it doesn't matter one bit if he's got nothing to report from the USA as to how his once great BBB is now shredded & delayed by his own congress, that for some reason keeps moving their demands like goalposts at every turn, & create chaos & delays as if to intentionaly strip Him of this incredible policy plan, specifically written as a foundation, built solid for future generations to build upon.


But hey Joe, it was always a longshot with sabatours at every turn, vying for their moment to co--opt your fine BBB as though they had created it themselves.


Biden had an exemplary policy plan, researched down to the last detail. It's understandable how those who've sat in wait, lobbing degrading personal attacks at him & his fellow Democratic leaders via Soc & TV Media, would want to claim the best parts of his BBB as their own, rather than actually hand America the gift that Joe Biden brought to the White House, credit Biden with tge full honor of HIS legacy, without 1st pissing all over him and his fellow Democratic leaders, while slicing up his BBB & grabbing some of that greatness to claim for themselves as they parade thru the daily Corporate owned TV Media lineup, patting themselves on the back because afterall, its now THEY who brought the great BBB to America & not President Biden nor Speaker Pelosi.

See how that works?
Pretty fking backstabbing, ain't it!

You asked & I responded.

Anything else you want to be enlightened by some fking truth?

Ask me anything. I've been researching these same players since they arrived back in 2012. A few years before Trump won the Presidency.

And here we are.







Justice matters.

(6,930 posts)
87. Not saying that. Kick big money OUT of politics, then we'll talk.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 03:28 PM
Oct 2021
Until then, nothing significant enough will be done. Promises, promises, will not materialize, period.

Although some states do their part, like for example, New York State:

New York State signs 25-year contract with Hydro-Quebec as the state moves away from fossil fuel energy
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/new-york-state-signs-25-year-contract-with-hydro-quebec-as-the-state-moves-away-from-fossil-fuel-energy-1.5592621

And other states, like for instance, California, and President Biden could mention these, but as long as special interests (short term profits) will be allowed to buy up politicians, forget it. We're screwed as a species.

JudyM

(29,251 posts)
84. We will continue to fall behind unless there's real progress, because the wheels of climate change
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 12:16 PM
Oct 2021

are already rolling at increasing velocity.

Regardless of what others are doing we need to strongly lead.

Autumn

(45,105 posts)
73. The bill is being held up by a few members of the House who are doing their job.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 10:23 AM
Oct 2021

Fixed it for you.

Autumn

(45,105 posts)
77. That's a matter of opinion George. I'm of the opinion that voting for a bill not knowing what will
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 11:09 AM
Oct 2021

exactly be in it is irresponsible. Bills need text. To bring it to a vote as a "framework" is irresponsible.

George II

(67,782 posts)
78. As Speaker Pelosi said yesterday (paraphrasing) "they wanted text, the text is up there."
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 11:14 AM
Oct 2021

I wouldn't dare call Speaker Pelosi irresponsible.

George II

(67,782 posts)
82. Exactly. We're now at a point where all 50 members of the Senate Democratic caucus....
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 12:07 PM
Oct 2021

....are satisfied, the President is satisfied, the Speaker is satisfied, and almost all Democrats in the House are satisfied.

Now only a handful of Democrats are holding it up.

Autumn

(45,105 posts)
83. Got a link to the text? Until I see it I will consider that the Progressive caucus is
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 12:11 PM
Oct 2021

holding out for a reason. A good one.

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
85. The Progressive Caucus accepted President Biden's framework on Thursday...
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 12:19 PM
Oct 2021

the same day it was announced:


Thursday was full of ups and down for President Biden, his agenda, and perhaps the success of a crucial climate change summit, starting with the president laying out a $1.8 trillion framework he said congressional Democrats could all support — and ending with the failure of House Democrats to give final approval to a separate bipartisan infrastructure bill.

"Progressives were triumphant, but the rest of the Democratic caucus was seething," Politico's Katherine Tully-McManus reports. "I think it's wholly apparent that today was not a success," Rep. Abigail Spanberger (D-Va.) said Thursday, blaming unidentified "obstructionists" for "not delivering" the infrastructure bill "because apparently failing roads and bridges can just wait in the minds of some people."

"But just when it looked like the day would end in embarrassment for Democrats, the Congressional Progressive Caucus issues a surprise endorsement of the president's compromise plan — removing one of the last big obstacles in its way," Politico's Rachael Bade recapped Friday morning. This endorsement "was drowned out" by the CPC's decision to block the infrastructure bill until it gets more assurances about the details of the $1.8 trillion framework and its fate in the Senate. "But the dispute over sequencing masked a major achievement for the president: Hill progressives now appear ready to swallow this deal — and that means it's likely a matter of when, not if, it passes."

The restive centrists of the Senate Democratic caucus, Sens. Joe Manchin (W. Va.) and Kyrsten Sinema (Ariz.), also "offered positive comments about the deal, but without committing to vote for it," The Washington Post reports. But they got most of what they asked for in the negotiations. Progressive Democrats had to give up a lot. "We wanted a $3.5 trillion package, but we understand the reality of the situation," CPC chairwoman Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.) told reporters Thursday night.

https://theweek.com/congress/1006592/gop-trump-critic-adam-kinzinger-wont-run-for-re-election-time-to-move-on



Manchin and Sinema have STILL not committed to vote for a Build Back Better bill based President Biden's framework.

George II

(67,782 posts)
86. I don't, and I'm not sure if it's out in the public domain yet, but Speaker Pelosi said yesterday...
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 12:36 PM
Oct 2021

...it's available to the House members, and in the Rules Committee hearing yesterday afternoon Chairman McGovern handed a printed copy of it, about 5 inches thick, to Ranking Member Cole.

So it's there and available for all members to read it.

What's interesting is a couple of members who were most outspoken about "no text, no vote" were on Twitter yesterday afternoon an hour or two after the bill was available. One would think they would be barricaded in their offices reading the bill instead of tweeting.

ColinC

(8,300 posts)
44. "Moderates?"
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 12:08 AM
Oct 2021

You mean the two bought and paid for corporate shills? John Tester, John Hickenlooper and Angus King, are great moderates statesmen. "moderate" is a title far too dignified for the two jokers who shall not be named...

olegramps

(8,200 posts)
65. We have found the enemy: its us. We are our own worse enemy.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 08:46 AM
Oct 2021

That is the nature of ultra-progressives. They demand the ultimate and refuse to compromise. Thereby destroying any chance for success. As it has been observed: Herding Democrats has the same chance of being successful and herding cats.

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
3. Biden needs to just pull the bill. it's obviously not going to pass.
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 10:11 PM
Oct 2021

And the more he keeps it out there, the more it hurts him because it's daily now we're getting stories about there being a blow here and there.

Biden just needs to concede he's not going to get his infrastructure bill.

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
9. At this rate, I'm dubious.
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 10:21 PM
Oct 2021

We've been at this for months and whenever it looks like a deal has been reached, it falls apart at the last second.

How many more times are we going to see headlines about the House punting or Manchin balking before we just concede it ain't going to pass?

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
12. Yup. And Name every legislator who stalled, blamed & held it up, denying Americans this gift
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 10:26 PM
Oct 2021

This gift for today & for generations to build upon.

Because "nothing is really much better than something isn't it"?

Name every damned one of them who stalled, blamed, & held it up demanding more & those who demanded less.

Talk about being fked over by a bunch of selfish Media grandstanders while President Biden & America watches this remarkable bill be torn to shreds & endlessly stalled just so they could blame their own insistant failure, on Joe Biden.

Thanks anyway Mr President. Sabatours denyed America one of the finest Bills for progress, moving us into the future while securing our battered lives today.
As they all parade thru the Media Talk show lineup right on cue, assuring America that none of this was any fault of theres.


They can all go home now. Its over. They all got what they wanted.

Joe Biden & America lost to a bunch of shortsighted TV celebrities.
.




Me.

(35,454 posts)
19. You Have Put It Perfectly
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 10:59 PM
Oct 2021

I never again want to hear any of them say how much they care for and are fighting for the people...an American president having to beg members of his own party to make things better for their fellow citizens is disgraceful. The only thing worse is how they kicked sand in his face.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
27. And this comes as he heads to the world Climate Conference with nothing to offer from his country
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 11:11 PM
Oct 2021

He can't claim the US will invest $500Billion.
He can't claim the US's goals for infrastructure improvements to meet climate demands, nor even talk of where he will improve upon as his builds onto the next step, and the next.

This stupid selfish delay by congress sends our US President to meet with global leaders, empty handed.
The embarassment is lain directly on their shoulders.

I damn well believe it was intentional to deny President Biden, while they poster on the TV that CLIMATE MATTERS..

twin_ghost

(435 posts)
6. They are popping open champagne at the corporation & oligarchs Lobbying Offices Tonight.
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 10:18 PM
Oct 2021


They are popping open champagne at the corporation & oligarchs Lobby Office Tonight.

MichMan

(11,932 posts)
11. This is the 4th time I believe that the Speaker has promised a vote was going to occur that same day
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 10:25 PM
Oct 2021

I wish she wouldn't keep doing that.

George II

(67,782 posts)
13. Really getting tired of Politico's negative spin on everything Democratic, and it's already gotten..
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 10:26 PM
Oct 2021

...worse since Axel Springer SE, a German rightwing media company, bought them.

"Punted"? Hardly the word that should be used.

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
16. Pelosi keeps making promises that she's not delivering on.
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 10:31 PM
Oct 2021

Pelosi has said multiple times over the weeks that a vote will come ... only to pullback at the last minute. I don't know how you frame it but this isn't the first time. It's happened like three times now:

Back in September, they were going to vote - and didn't:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/26/pelosi-says-infrastructure-bill-will-pass-this-week-but-the-vote-may-be-delayed.html

Then they were going to vote on Oct. 1st - and didn't:

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/huddle/2021/10/01/infrastructure-delayed-but-pelosi-promises-vote-today-494546

And now this. I feel we're in perpetual reruns.


 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
30. Because she doesn't have the fking votes when it comes close to the day to call the vote
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 11:18 PM
Oct 2021

This isn't a problem with Pelosi. Its the stall, demand, delay bullshit thrown at her.

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
31. Then she needs to stop promising they're going to vote on it.
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 11:27 PM
Oct 2021

Better yet, Biden needs to just pull the bill. No one is benefiting from this game.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
32. Its not Pelosi. Its the sabators fking with the bill. Delay, Demand, Ok, No....
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 11:33 PM
Oct 2021

Its a powrr game & the intent is to basically tank the whole thing & head to the TV parade of talk hosts, to spin who's to blame .
But be sure it's not any of them.
🙄

Its a fking power game & their campaign speeches are already being written.

Sick ain't it.

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
34. It doesn't matter.
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 11:37 PM
Oct 2021

She needs to stop promising a vote. It's damaging every time she has to cancel a vote. It's kicking up bad press. I am not blaming Pelosi for the delay - but the optics are not good at all. In the last month, we've had three attempts to move this to a vote, a promise from the Speaker that a vote will happen, only to have her back away from that because the votes aren't there. I am not blaming her for the votes not being there - I am just saying we need to stop making this proclamation until it is 100% certain the votes are there and if the votes aren't there, they need to pull the bill because if the outcome is no bill regardless, the continued tease of it, and Biden and Pelosi stating they have confidence in its passage, only to have it fall apart, is horrible optics.

Soon, and I mean probably within the next few days, they're going to have to decide whether it's worth it...or Biden gives up, pulls the bill and calls out those responsible for its failure to pass. But the constant, 'we're close...' only to have it blow up at the last minute is not helping anyone.

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
43. Okay.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 12:06 AM
Oct 2021

Clearly you're not reading my posts. So I will be as clear as I can with you: I AM NOT BLAMING PELOSI. I am just saying she needs to stop calling a vote. That's it. The optics of these headlines are killing our side. That is a fact. I am not saying she is the reason there aren't the votes - I am saying she just needs to stop promising an actual vote when it's not going to happen.

It's not hard to grasp. Pelosi can't control the votes, that's pretty clear, but she can control stating we're going to have a vote by this day - and she should stop that. Simple.

littlemissmartypants

(22,691 posts)
51. It's her job to call for the vote. She's just doing her job.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 01:36 AM
Oct 2021

She can hardly abdicate the responsibility. Maybe someone could suggest that she kick back eating crumpets and having tea until something, sometime, whenever, oh, I don't know. . . She hires a surrogate to do her job for her???

Paleeeze.

What "kills" "our side" is the constant fault finding, non confidence building, belly aching petulant complainers.

Especially those claiming to be on "our side" that can't seem to hold fast to more constructive behaviors.

How about try being uniters and not dividers or uplifting and full of faith in the process and the people chosen to drive it?

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
54. This just isn't true.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 01:42 AM
Oct 2021

This is the last thing I'm going to say on the subject. What you're saying makes no sense because she's not actually calling for a vote as a vote is not taking place. She continue to say she's going to bring it up for a vote and then is forced to cancel the vote because she can't wrangle the votes. There is nothing in the rules that state Pelosi has to do any of this. She's clearly doing it to put pressure on the progressive caucus but that's not working. Three times now she's proposed doing a vote and three times she has had to cancel it due to the progressives digging in.

Bottom line: these headlines are not productive. If Pelosi can't get the votes, she needs to stop floating these deadlines that she can't enforce. It just creates stories like this. I am not blaming Pelosi for anything. Only saying it might be better optics if she stop doing that...especially since it is something she can control.

littlemissmartypants

(22,691 posts)
55. I'm pretty sure optics are the least of her worries. And I firmly stand behind my statements.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 01:58 AM
Oct 2021

Furthermore, I don't agree with your stance, not even to a miniscule amount.

Perhaps you would prefer the entire process take place in secret rooms, behind impenetrable doors and after everything is decided and settled we find out later or never, what actually happened?

How about she could just spring it on us that the vote happened while we were all sleeping or numbing ourselves while the opiate of our choice continues to
keep us muddled and distracted?

I'm happy to have her insist on a vote as many times as it takes to get the job done. The persistent, perseverance she exhibits with her actions, regardless of the outcome, should be revered and admired and never criticized.

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
70. Oh no! Not ignore!
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 10:06 AM
Oct 2021

No hill dying here. You're just wrong. Pelosi needs to stop saying she's going to call a vote until she knows 100% that she can actually call it. It's that simple. You can ignore the optics and bury your head in the sand but it doesn't change the fact each time this happens, it adds another embarrassment to the White House.

And wasn't Pelosi the one who asked the progressives to not embarrass the White House? Well stop giving them an opportunity to. It's that simple.

I'm sorry you find the truth so difficult to accept.

moose65

(3,167 posts)
67. All the spin is negative
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 09:30 AM
Oct 2021

In their constant quest to show how "bad" both sides are, disagreements among the people who are trying to help most of America get equated to the actions of the people who encouraged the Capitol riot and who would just LOVE to start shooting the liberals if they could. It is insane.

I think both bills will eventually pass, and when they do, no one will remember all this angst and finger-pointing.

Bluethroughu

(5,172 posts)
14. Why is this bill framed as a Democratic problem...
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 10:27 PM
Oct 2021

Not One Republican and two Democrats don't want to invest in THIS Country, and should be framed as such.

But the millionaires want another tax break and those same people have no problem with the fact many don't pay any tax and actually take money from the 99% that do PAY MORE than their fair share.

cilla4progress

(24,736 posts)
17. Not sure of the procedure here,
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 10:32 PM
Oct 2021

But I just watched Jayapal on Maddow - albeit late - and she was confident of passage?

cilla4progress

(24,736 posts)
23. Well yeah but she's got their sensitive bits
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 11:06 PM
Oct 2021

in a vise: no Build Back Better, no hard infrastructure. Which Sinema, for one, needs to get relected.

Lawrence ODonnell on MSNBC right now saying the progressive caucus is wielding impressive power! Albeit limited choices.

Response to Lovie777 (Reply #47)

LudwigPastorius

(9,155 posts)
35. If reports are to be believed,...
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 11:42 PM
Oct 2021

House progressives are refusing to vote for the infrastructure bill unless Sinema and Manchin vote yes for the social spending bill when it comes up in the Senate.

It's a game of chicken, with Biden's agenda, and possibly control of the House and Senate in 2022, at stake.

LudwigPastorius

(9,155 posts)
28. Goddamnit! This is getting ridiculous.
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 11:14 PM
Oct 2021

Do you want to lose the House and the Senate next year?

...because THIS is how you lose the House and Senate next year.

Cryptoad

(8,254 posts)
33. Being a Republican is so ez,,,
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 11:37 PM
Oct 2021

tow teh party line if not just dont publicly oppose the party line.......We need to learn, Sometimes u just have to take what u can get.... live to fight another day for all that u didn't get.

Bayard

(22,085 posts)
39. This has got to be playing very badly with Americans
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 11:47 PM
Oct 2021

Dems just can't get their act together. Their party is so divided. They make promises they can't deliver. We voted them into office, and they can't get anything done. Yada yada yada.

It must be so frustrating and embarrassing for President Biden. And he'll be blamed for it.

JohnSJ

(92,217 posts)
40. Nice spin from politico. I guess they didn't hear Rep Jayapal, and I would trust her assessment
Thu Oct 28, 2021, 11:48 PM
Oct 2021

over Politico

Jon King

(1,910 posts)
57. Americans are determined to destroy themselves and do not deserve Biden.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 02:38 AM
Oct 2021

43% approval rating for a decent, honest, hard working President who inherited a disaster and has tried tirelessly to help the American people. Maybe this country just does not deserve people like Clinton, Obama, Sanders, and Biden. Its utterly exhausting seeing Democrat after Democrat try to help the American people and get treated like garbage.

Marthe48

(16,968 posts)
60. That group of reps are fighting for us,
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 07:16 AM
Oct 2021

their constitutents. There was an agreement that the expenditures would be split into 2 parts, one that the r's would vote on and the other, which is supposed to benefit Americans, which only the Dems would vote on because the r's are a bunch of poopheads.

Seemingly, it is fine and dandy to strengthen the physical infrastructure, but why bother if a majority of Americans aren't going to get to use it? I'm in a rural area of Ohio. A few weeks ago, I drove Country Rd. 9 from one end to the other. It is mainly paved, and goes through The Wayne National Forest. It took me about an hour, and I saw no other cars. Most of my drive that day was solitary. What houses and farms I passed were shabby, rundown, dispirirted, family farms that are getting left by the wayside. I thought it was a metaphor for the country right now.

I think the progressives who are fighting to hang on to the original deal, and get an infrastructure that supports the needs of humans, of workers, of families are some of the most courageous people in government right now. There are several Dems who gave their word, and now, when push comes to shove, back away from the commitment they made to both parts of the bill.

For the first time in a generation, we aren't spending money on the war machine. Every other postwar period, the U.S. rebuilt the domestic programs and reinforced the floor that our workers, families and veterans stand on, so they can grow and develop and give back to their own lives and to this country.

I support the elected representatives who are keeping American citizens in mind and fighting for us. And I am proud of their stellar example of integrity.

Vinca

(50,276 posts)
62. Noble until it all goes south and they/we get nothing. That's the risk.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 07:33 AM
Oct 2021

IMO it would make sense to break the bill causing the stoppage into smaller bits. Get what can be done now done, then chip away at the other things. It's not just the legislation that's at risk here, it's the entire legislature. If they have nothing to show come election day 2022, the voters won't be as enthusiastic about bothering to vote. If the GOP takes control again, it will have all been for naught anyway because they will immediately cancel out whatever was passed by Democrats. We all want the same thing, but without a supermajority you have to grab what you can get when the opportunity is there. I'll be really angry if the entire thing - both bills - go into the dumpster after all these months of work and negotiation.

Marthe48

(16,968 posts)
75. I don't think it'll be nothing
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 11:00 AM
Oct 2021

The progressives are holding the line, as best they can and making sure the representavies who are renegging are visible in their opposition.

Even though much of the reform aspects are getting reduced or removed, and the overall expenditure is getting lower, some of the bill will survive. Maybe enough so that people can get a break.

My history teacher taught that social revolution comes from the middle class. I think one of the goals of the extremists is to destroy the middle class, to mute the voice of change. Whatever we get in the bill, it might energize people who want to see improvements in our quality of life and standard of living.

I agree that that way it is being covered in the news, it is hurting Dems. I hope it is voted on and passed soon, so that the people it is supposed to help get a feeling of the benefits in time to vote for Dems. Thanks for your thoughtful reply

Deminpenn

(15,286 posts)
61. Politico gets it wrong again
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 07:32 AM
Oct 2021

Jayapal was on with Maddow last night. Everything she said contradicted Politco's reporting.

First, she said her caucus has said all along they wanted to see the text of the bill. They got that sometime yesterday, 10/28.

Second, she said her caucus is not going home for the weekend, they are staying in DC to work.

Then she said her caucus will, not might or maybe, pass both bills and that they are taking a leap of faith that Biden has the 50 votes in the Senate he needs.

You can bet Biden did not make a speech about what's in the bill if he did not have Manchin, Sinema and however many other Dem senators who are hiding behind Manchin on board.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,350 posts)
69. Representative Sarandon, is that you?
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 09:48 AM
Oct 2021

Don't pass anything unless it's perfect. This will bring the revolution!

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
88. Aaaahhhaaah! Thanks - this thread need it
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 04:26 PM
Oct 2021

Multi-multi millionare susan who stands to lose nothing ...but maybe Taxes?? AhhHaaa!!
#TankBBB ! RFN!

(Susan don't wanna pay Joe Biden's tax rate either)

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