Kyle Rittenhouse 'was an active shooter,' according to wounded paramedic

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

Source: NBC News

The paramedic seriously wounded last year by Kyle Rittenhouse said Thursday he was unnerved watching "your would-be murderer" on the witness stand.

Gaige Grosskreutz, the only survivor of three people Rittenhouse shot on Aug. 25 last year in Kenosha, Wisconsin, watched the 18-year-old testify in his defense on Wednesday and called it an emotional experience.

"Well I think any time you see your would-be murderer on the stand, it’s emotional," Grosskreutz told ABC's "Good Morning America."

-snip-

Grosskreutz, a paramedic from suburban Milwaukee, was also in Kenosha, offering medical services, that night.



Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/kyle-rittenhouse-was-an-active-shooter-according-to-wounded-paramedic/ar-AAQAFBC?li=BBnb7Kz

[world wide wally]

1. I'll bet an AR-15 wasn't one of his tools

[FBaggins]

3. Nope... it was a Glock

[cadoman]

16. a glock that wasn't carried by an under-aged minor across state lines to incite violence

[riversedge]

18. The Gun was paid for by Rittenhouse but stored by a friend in Wisconsin --from what I have read.

I also had thought he crossed state lines WITH the gun but seems that was in correct.

[IronLionZion]

2. He was actively shooting

Last edited Thu Nov 11, 2021, 03:32 PM - Edit history (1)

so he's therefore an active shooter. He shot and killed unarmed people. There has to be some charges that would stick.

[FBaggins]

4. Not the way the term is defined

“Active shooter” and “self defense” are mutually exclusive.

By your implied usage, nobody could ever defend themselves with a firearm.

[IronLionZion]

5. Defend himself from what?

No one was shooting at him. No one was armed.

[FBaggins]

6. No one was armed?

Are we talking about the same case?

Prosecution witnesses made the self defense case for the defense.

[IronLionZion]

7. A plastic bottle and skateboard vs assault rifle?

not even close

[FBaggins]

8. A Glock pointed at his head?

A loaded firearm that the witness admitted he pointed at the defendant.

Have you paid any attention to the case at all?

Other prosecution witnesses testified that the first person had threatened the defendant’s life and the chased him and grabbed for his weapon.

There isn’t a clearer case of self defense unless you’re going to require a defendant to be shot first… and there is no such standard

[maxsolomon]

10. Was Grosskreutz defending himself from Rittenhouse?

Who he believed was an "Active Shooter"? Or was he assaulting him with a deadly weapon?

How was Grosskreutz to know that Rittenhouse , young hero of the 2nd Amendment, had actually pulled off a life-defending DGU (Defensive Gun Use) against a mental patient armed with a can of deodorant and socks?

Does the right to self-defense only extend to Rittenhouse?

[FBaggins]

11. If he had fired and was on trial...

… then a self defense case would be easy for him too. But he isn’t the defendant.

The trouble you’re having is misunderstanding the “beyond a reasonable doubt “ standard.

One person believing that he is defending himself is not evidence that the other is not.

[maxsolomon]

12. I'm having zero trouble understanding that.

Rittenhouse clearly believed he was in mortal danger.

That belief is subjective and there is no way to determine "beyond a reasonable doubt" if the threat justified his actions in response.

[FBaggins]

13. I'm afraid that you just proved that isn't true.

Rittenhouse clearly believed he was in mortal danger.

You just voted "not guilty"

That belief is subjective and there is no way to determine "beyond a reasonable doubt" if the threat justified his actions in response.

That get's the "reasonable doubt" standard exactly backward. The prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Rittenhouse did not believe that he was in mortal danger. The defense has no obligation to prove anything at all (let alone "beyond a reasonable doubt" )

[maxsolomon]

14. then he walks on at least the most serious charges.

i understand that the prosecution has to prove his intent and belief, which is probably impossible since he was a jumpy, dumb kid completely out of his depth.

regardless, i also believe there is going to be a nullifier on the jury, just like in Elizabeth Hokoana's trial for shooting Josh Dukes on inauguration day on the UW campus in Seattle.

all these discussions will be moot because of that.

[maxsolomon]

9. The fog of war.

I have no doubt that Huber and Grosskreutz thought they were engaging an "active shooter" and were justified in their actions.

I don't doubt that Rittenhouse believed he was in mortal peril, and his illegally-possessed MSSA sure was a tempting self-defense tool.

But, did Rosenbaum intend to kill Rittenhouse? Unknown. We know he'd just been let out of a psych ward. Note how he was "armed":

Among the crowd was an agitated bald guy in his mid-thirties, with a ginger goatee and an earring. He was wearing a maroon T-shirt, and had brought a plastic shopping bag containing socks, underwear, and deodorant. The man, who suffered from bipolar disorder, had recently been charged with domestic violence, and then had attempted suicide. Hours before the protest, he had been discharged from a psychiatric hospital. He apparently had wandered into the melee on the street, where it was difficult to perceive anything but his rage. At the Ultimate Convenience Center, he confronted the armed men, screaming both “Don’t point no motherfucking gun at me!” and “Shoot me! ”

A man yelled, “Somebody control him!”

The plastic bag with a can of deodorant in it was thrown at a retreating Rittenhouse. There was a shot, but not from Rosenbaum, who grabbed at Rittenhouse's gun as he whirled around. He didn't succeed:

During the chaos, Rittenhouse moved down the street toward Car Source’s second mechanic shop, where rioters had been smashing car windows. He crossed paths with the angry bald man, who chased him into the shop’s parking area. The man now wore his T-shirt as a head wrap and face mask, leaving his torso bare. Screaming “Fuck you!,” he threw his plastic bag at Rittenhouse’s back. Rittenhouse, holding his rifle, reached some parked cars just as a protester fired a warning shot into the sky. Rittenhouse whirled; the bald man lunged; Rittenhouse fired, four times. The man fell in front of a Buick, wounded in the groin, back, thigh, hand, and head.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/07/05/kyle-rittenhouse-american-vigilante

[Zeitghost]

15. Grosskreutz

Grosskreutz is basically the reverse side of the Rittenhouse coin. Came from out of town, brought a gun yet claimed to be there to offer medical aid (he was not a paramedic but had an expired EMT basic cert) and was active in self described revolutionary groups.

Grosskreutz was there looking for trouble and he found it.

[twodogsbarking]

19. I wouldn't bet on a conviction. Hung jury at best.

Second time he will walk. Sucks.