A C.D.C. panel recommends that other vaccines be preferred over J.&J.

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: New York Times

An expert panel to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Thursday voted to recommend that Covid vaccines other than Johnson & Johnson’s should be preferred, citing increasing evidence that the company’s shots trigger a rare blood clot disorder now linked to dozens of cases and at least nine deaths in the last year. Some committee members expressed the hope that exceptions could be made in cases in which people do not have access to the more popular shots of Moderna or Pfizer-BioNTech, or want Johnson & Johnson’s vaccine despite being informed about an elevated risk of a rare but potentially serious side effect.

The panel’s vote effectively discourages vaccine providers and adults from using Johnson & Johnson’s shot. Data presented on Thursday to the committee indicated that there was a higher risk for the blood clotting condition than had been reported earlier to the panel. The recommendation, which the C.D.C. must still decide whether to accept, is the latest setback for a vaccine which has largely fallen out of favor in the United States. The company’s vaccine has lost its early promise as a traditional, one-and-done format that would be easy to deploy in more isolated or rural communities, and among people skittish about receiving two doses.

About 16 million people in the United States have received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine as their primary immunization, compared to 73 million fully immunized with Moderna’s vaccine and 114 million with the Pfizer-BioNTech shots. Among Americans who have received a booster, just 1.5 percent chose the Johnson & Johnson shot. Earlier this week, the Food and Drug Administration issued updated guidance on the risks of the blood-clotting disorder linked to Johnson & Johnson’s vaccine, but reiterated that the benefits outweighed its risks.

The panel’s recommendation lands in the midst of a surge in virus cases driven by the Delta coronavirus variant and Omicron, the latest version that has already become dominant in some countries and is spreading fast in the United States. Several laboratory experiments suggest that a single dose of Johnson & Johnson’s shot may offer little defense against infection with Omicron. The company said late last month that it was testing blood samples from clinical trial participants who have received its shot as a booster to see how their vaccine-induced antibodies fare against Omicron.

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/16/health/cdc-johnson-vaccine-blood-clot.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

---

Apparently CDC's ACIP met today and there was a 15-0 vote for this recommendation.

Non-paywall AP article still being updated -

CDC panel recommends Pfizer, Moderna vaccines over J&J shot

By LAURAN NEERGAARD and MIKE STOBBE10 minutes ago


Most Americans should be given the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines instead of the Johnson & Johnson shot that can cause rare but serious blood clots, U.S. health advisers recommended Thursday. The strange clotting problem has caused nine confirmed deaths after J&J vaccinations — while the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines don’t come with that risk and also appear to be more effective, advisers to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said.

It’s an unusual move and the CDC’s director, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, must decide whether to accept the panel’s advice. Until now the U.S. has treated all three COVID-19 vaccines available to Americans as an equal choice, since large studies found they all offered strong protection and early supplies were limited.

J&J’s vaccine initially was welcomed as a single-dose option that could be especially important for hard-to-reach groups like homeless people who might not get the needed second dose of the Pfizer or Moderna options. But the CDC’s advisers said Thursday that it was time to recognize a lot has changed since vaccines began rolling out a year ago. More than 200 million Americans are considered fully vaccinated, including about 16 million who got the J&J shot.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. AP’s earlier story follows below.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-science-business-health-coronavirus-vaccine-dee1a2f0becff4090aa2775b19f04158

Original article and headline:

US health advisers recommend Pfizer or Moderna COVID-19 vaccines over J&J shot because of rare but serious side effect

NEW YORK -- US health advisers recommend Pfizer or Moderna COVID-19 vaccines over J&J shot because of rare but serious side effect.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/us-health-advisers-recommend-pfizer-moderna-covid-19-81797809

[hlthe2b]

1. J&J not having a good decade--beyond its baby powder/cancer issues and a few other things

Kinda feel for them on this as it was meant to be a big piece of their "come-back."

[BumRushDaShow]

5. J&J's problems go back longer than a decade

But as a note, they were doing this in conjunction with one of their subsidiaries (that they bought) - Janssen Pharmaceuticals, which is a Belgium company (which is why you might see me call it "Janssen (J&J) " when I post about it).

[cojoel]

15. Janssen is a subsidiary

but a long time one, as it was acquired in the 1960s, before such M&A activities were so common.

[BumRushDaShow]

34. Yup

Like McNeil (which pre-dated even that)... But we don't call it "J&J's Tylenol".

[hibbing]

2. Wonder where I stand

I was so anxious to get the shot I took the first opportunity I had, which was J & J, got a Pfizer booster. I just wonder what my protection level is.

Peace

[Grasswire2]

6. from the article

Earlier this week, the Food and Drug Administration issued updated guidance on the risks of the blood-clotting disorder linked to Johnson & Johnson’s vaccine, but reiterated that the benefits outweighed its risks.

[BumRushDaShow]

9. You should be okay if you don't develop the rare clotting issue

which has been found to occur with certain demographics (similar to what was being found with AstraZeneca's similar vaccine). I.e., this is actually referencing the same issue that caused FDA/CDC to "pause" the vaccine in the spring to look at the data, and apparently they have more data now.

The mRNA boosters seemed to really kick the immune responses into gear for those who received Janssen (J&J)'s vaccine however, so that will probably be what is recommended going forward for those who had that vaccine.

[moriah]

17. While I can't say this based on cited firm data in the body of the post....

.... it is both my hope and my understanding that those who got boosted with one of the mRNA vaccines after receiving the J&J as their primary will have decent protection against severe disease or death.

And you're still far better off, based on all evidence the CDC used to say the risk was outweighed by the benefit, to have the immunity you do than the many in my state who declined any at all.

I sincerely hope that you and others who went with J&J when choosing/having chosen for us by circumstances which experimental group we'd be in (mine really wasn't a choice either, Pfizer was just what my regular pharmacy had) will be able to get some better data in order to make the best decisions for your health. At least we're not in the control group!

[LisaL]

27. Your protection with the booster should be pretty good against delta and previous variants.

Not sure about omicron.

[Grasswire2]

3. the story as shown here doesn't mention the infinitely SLIM chance of having that RARE complication.

What is it? Something like one in ten million chance of the clot??

The reconsideration is only based on that remote complication. Not on the efficacy of the vaccine against the virus.

Let's have some comprehensive reporting!!

[BumRushDaShow]

11. Apparently the meeting today actually went over ADDITIONAL data

that they received for review and the instances were apparently more than originally reported from the previous limited data set (As I heard on the radio).

I will be checking CDC's ACIP site to see if they had slide decks (this meeting appears to have been ad hoc).

[Grasswire2]

16. I saw that new alleged stat.

Still less chance than slim to none. Get the virus, your chances of dying and/or being hospitalized are something to worry about.

Get the J&J? One chance in millions of a rare blood clot?

It almost seems malpractice to discourage people from this vaccine.

[BumRushDaShow]

21. I just posted some screencaps from 2 of the slide decks in a new posted linked here

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2841336

This is not just an issue with Janssen (J&J) but also a known problem with AstraZeneca's similar vaccine.

No one has "pulled" that vaccine from use. I expect this is all to narrow recommendations for use to certain populations/demographics similar to how the countries that use AstraZeneca did early on for their populaces.

Covid: Under-30s offered alternative to Oxford-AstraZeneca jab

By Nick Triggle
Health correspondent

7 April


Under-30s in the UK are to be offered an alternative Covid vaccine to the AstraZeneca jab due to the evidence linking it to rare blood clots.

The recommendation comes after a review by the UK drugs regulator found that by the end of March 79 people had suffered rare blood clots after vaccination - 19 of whom had died.

The regulator said this was not proof the jab had caused the clots.

But it said the link was getting firmer.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56665517

[BumRushDaShow]

20. Here is a link to the slide decks (PDFs) from CDC's ACIP meeting

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/slides-2021-12-16.html

The thrombosis has apparently continued to be one of the concerns.

They appeared to be comparing with AstraZeneca's similar platform vaccine and the same issue (from this slide deck (PDF) - https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-12-16/04_COVID_Oliver_2021-12-16.pdf)





More specifically (from this slide deck (PDF), they are noting the increase in instances between reviews of data - https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-12-16/02-COVID-See-508.pdf) -



Since AstraZeneca's vaccine has been given to a huge international population (currently the most used worldwide so far), they can see the handwriting on the wall from that and are apparently extrapolating and applying a similar expectation for the Janssen (J&J) vaccine, which has been used in a significantly fewer number of individuals, making it harder to find the "signal" that can be clearly seen with AstraZeneca's vaccine.

[DenaliDemocrat]

60. About 1 in 250,000 have issues

9 deaths of all doses. Less than 1 in a million chance. As a risk assessor, this is an acceptable risk. However the mRNA has essentially zero risk of death.

J&J has superior B and T cell recruitment. When boosted with mRNA - a 20 to 30 fold increase in antibodies was observed.

The data exists and you can find it. I just don’t feel like going through all of my articles to find it again

[dchill]

4. At first, I wondered why anyone would care about...

...ACDC's vaccine preferences. Hell's Bells!

[utopian]

8. Same

[Ellipsis]

29. Who knew...

[dchill]

31. Who made who?

[Knight of the Middle]

7. Johnson & Johnson

A Fail Me Company.

[Sucha NastyWoman]

10. Was wondering why AC/DC would be recommending vaccines.

Nevermind

[BumRushDaShow]

12. ...

(apparently they came out with a new album last year )

[IronLionZion]

14. Thunder

[turbinetree]

19. This....needed this song...thank you

[BumRushDaShow]

22. I actually like this "Thunder"

[IronLionZion]

23. That's good, but how are their vaccine recommendations?

Must be good if it makes you imagine dragons

[greenjar_01]

37. Heyoooo!

[IronLionZion]

13. For those who got the shots

We salute you. Stand up and be boosted

[Grasswire2]

18. SIXTEEN MILLION ppl have gotten J&J. NINE ppl have died from the rare blood clot.

I'll take that, any day.

[Pobeka]

24. In round numbers, out of 16 million people in the USA, 38,788 have died from COVID.

deaths / population * (number with J&J) = 800,000/330,000,000*16,000,000=38,788

[LisaL]

33. Why should we accept people dying from a J&J vaccine when we have

Pfizer and Moderna available that don't cause those clots?

[Grasswire2]

42. Do you not understand that many people with underlying health conditions may react severely to ..

...Pfizer and Moderna??

[LisaL]

51. Using your logic, since very few people would have bad reactions, that's nothing to worry about.

NT

[Grasswire2]

53. uh..........how do you know that "very few" people would have bad reactions?

Show us the stats for your claim.

How many people do you think suffer from type 1 or 2 diabetes? Or any number of other underlying diseases?

[LisaL]

54. Diabetics can get Pfizer or Moderna.

So I have no clue what you are arguing about here.

[Grasswire2]

55. the point here is that many people with underlying disease do not tolerate the side effects.

...of the other two. So they choose J&J. It needs to be available as an alternative, and telling the public it's not as safe is not the complete information for everyone. One size does not fit all.

Someone seems to want to drive down J&J's market share.

[hamsterjill]

56. I wonder about that, too.

Pfizer is pushed over Moderna and J&J is constantly discouraged. One might start to wonder about why one is promoted so heavily. Is it money? Is it availability?

I’m not anti-vaxx or anything like that. But at some point, they are either going to have to say that they made a huge mistake by allowing J&J to be used at all, or else decide if it has any value. J&J was used a lot in South Africa and South Africa seems to be doing better against Omicron than the UK.

I’m sure the resident medics on DU who always post about the vaccines will provide a link about how ineffective J&J is. As to me, pardon me if I wonder about things.

[LisaL]

57. How is Pfizer pushed over Moderna?

Moderna is more effective.

[hamsterjill]

59. In my area, Pfizer is much easier to get.

Moderna almost impossible to find. The majority of the press I see is also heavily favored toward Pfizer.

Now, I know you consider yourself an expert on the vaccine issue, and I know that’s not scientific. But I see it happening. So, it is reality.

[Grasswire2]

61. yeah, something's up there

....and I don't like having to wonder if people like Rachel Maddow own stock in certain pharmaceutical companies.

[Rhiannon12866]

25. I know a woman who got the J&J who was anxious to get her booster

So I looked online and told her that she could get it at a nearby Rite Aid - and it said that anyone who got the J&J needed the second shot ASAP. But when I spoke to her again, turns out she got her booster in the next county over - and it was the Pfizer.

[Grasswire2]

43. Rite Aid does have J&J, yes

But you need an appointment at some stores.

Some have walk-ins available. Some don't.

[Rhiannon12866]

46. Now we're learning that those who got the J&J should get a Pfizer or Moderna booster

Rachel Maddow (who initially got the J&J) discussed that night. So this woman I know did the right thing.

[Grasswire2]

47. I don't accept that.

It's not that simple.

If you are afraid of the teeeeeeny possibility of getting a rare blood clot, then J&J is not for you.

It has nothing to do with the other vaccines being better protection. CDC made that announcement solely on the unlikely and remote possibility of a rare blood clot.

[Rhiannon12866]

48. Well, I'm just quoting what Rachel said last night since she also got the J&J

I'm not affected since I got the Moderna, got my Moderna booster last week.

[Grasswire2]

50. Yes, I know.

I should have written that I don't accept what Rachel is telling people. It's misleading, or at least not complete information.

[Rhiannon12866]

26. Duplicate post

[LisaL]

28. Moderna or Pfizer are recommended as a booster for J&J.

NT

[Rhiannon12866]

35. I heard that from Rachel Maddow just tonight

And I did remember that she got the J&J.

[Grasswire2]

44. if you are concerned about the rare clot possibility

Not because they are any more efficacious against Covid.

[LisaL]

49. That is not accurate at all.

You get a bigger antibody increase boosting J&J with Moderna or Pfizer than with another J&J.

[Grasswire2]

52. sigh

When will people realize that not everyone can tolerate the kick of Moderna or Pfizer?

And Dr. Fauci says 2 J&J plus perhaps a J&J booster is just fine in terms of protection.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

30. Not sure about health advice from ACDC

?itok=raYle6ns

Sorry, I couldn't help myself after misreading your headline.

[IronLionZion]

32. It's A Long Way to the Top

IF You Wanna Rock ' n' Roll. It's harder than it looks

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

36. I'm waiting for definitive health advice from Keith Richards.

After all, he's still alive.

[twodogsbarking]

38. Live each day as though it were your last.

Fiber.

[twodogsbarking]

39. I too read it that way. Maybe they could be some help.

[madville]

40. The vaccines affect different demographics differently

All the J&J blood clotting issues were in women under 50, so a young man would have no risk of that.

Then the mRNA vaccines have caused heart problems in mostly young men under 30.

The chances are small in either case, kinda gotta pick your poison, either type of vaccine is still way better than getting COVID while unvaccinated though.

[Grasswire2]

45. very, very small chances. nt

[George II]

41. Sorry, I read that as "ACDC Panel"! You know where my head is this morning....

[NurseJackie]

58. Ya beat me to it George II ... I saw the same thing.

I need new glasses. Or a bigger monitor.