Women operated on by male surgeons more likely to die or have complications, study finds

[demmiblue]

Source: USA Today

Women who had surgery performed by a male surgeon were more likely to have adverse outcomes than women operated on by female doctors, according to a study published Dec. 8 in peer-reviewed medical journal JAMA Surgery.

U.S. and Canadian researchers analyzed more than 1.3 million patients in Ontario, Canada, treated by 2,397 surgeons between 2007 and 2019. They found that female patients treated by male surgeons had 15% greater odds of worse outcomes than female patients treated by female surgeons.

Women patients operated on by male surgeons had a 32% increase risk of death, 16% increase in major complications and 11% increase in readmission to the hospital within a 30-day window post-surgery, compared to women operated on by female surgeons, researchers found.

In most cases, men had similar outcomes when operated on by either a male or female surgeon. However, men operated on by a male surgeon had a 13% increase in death, compared to men treated by a female surgeon.

Read more: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/01/05/women-surgery-patients-more-risk-men-operate/9096481002/

[Walleye]

1. My lumpectomy was done by 72-year-old woman who knew everything there was to know about the breasts

It gave me a lot of confidence going into the operation and she did a great job.

[Mz Pip]

4. Wonderful!

My whole team was female - radiologist, surgeon, anesthesiologist. I felt I was in very skilled hands.

[live love laugh]

2. WOW... speechless

[OAITW r.2.0]

3. As bad as this sounds.....what is the % of male to female surgeons?

Are the male surgeons somehow ignorant of female biology...or does the facts just point to the reality that there are far more male surgeons who can make mistakes?

[unc70]

5. Or more older male surgeons?

[dalton99a]

6. Only 22% of general surgeons are women, and only 6% of orthopedic surgeons are women

Last edited Wed Jan 5, 2022, 11:59 PM - Edit history (1)

Many med students change their minds about wanting to do surgery after their surgery rotations in med school

[OAITW r.2.0]

7. I have a front row seat.

My primo companion has a SIL that is a 5th yr Resident...focusing on ER Trauma. From the Dominican Republic. Got his DR. in the DR, but had to start over in the USA. He relishes the challenge of using his knowledge to overcome the trauma. He doesn't win all of the time, but he has the mental discipline and confidence to react in the moment.

I'd want him overseeing my entrance in the ER...I know I had the best I could ever expect.

[littlemissmartypants]

11. Do you have a reference for this? TIA ❤

[dalton99a]

20. Physician data report by AAMC

(Association of American Medical Colleges)

[littlemissmartypants]

21. Thanks for this. I'm really also very interested in the reference for this statement, too.

Many med students change their minds about wanting to do surgery after their surgery rotations in med school

❤

[dalton99a]

26. Personal observation

It is a common phenomenon - about 70% of med students switch specialties by their senior year.

Here are some hard numbers from AAMC surveys:

[littlemissmartypants]

29. Thank you. ❤

[pnwmom]

10. Why would that matter? This is about outcomes, by gender of surgeon.

Yes, there were fewer women surgeons, but that wouldn't change the results of outcome by gender.

[drmeow]

18. The study was published in JAMA Surgery

which is a top journal. It would not have been able to pass peer review if they had not statistically controlled for unequal sample sizes. The number of male vs female surgeons should not make a difference in the results.

[janterry]

32. Statistical models take that into account

Nt

[58Sunliner]

8. Why am I not surprised??!!!

[crim son]

9. I may simply be really tired

but am confused by the last two sentences of this clip. Do they not contradict one another?

[pnwmom]

13. They reported multiple possible negative outcomes. In most, male and female surgeons were the same.

But there was a slight increase in the rate of death with male surgeons.

[crim son]

15. That makes sense!

Thanks, pnwmom.

[pnwmom]

17. I had to read it twice, starting with the preceding paragraph about women patients.

So I understand why you would get confused.

[JT45242]

12. So male surgeons are worse...reminds me of a joke

What's the difference between God and a surgeon.

God doesn't think that he's a surgeon.

[Coventina]

14. Weird Al knew this decades ago:

[Farmer-Rick]

16. Sounds like overall woman make better surgeons.

Too bad they aren't the majority of surgeons.

[PatrickforB]

19. I cannot think of an explanation for this. Why on earth should this even be?

Sure makes me feel good about my periodontist who is female. She really does care.

Maybe this goes back somehow to Carol Gilligan's 'Different Voice.' Are women differently wired than men? More healing? More nurturing?

Or does this have to do with the way we monetize everything? Among other hats I've worn, I have 14 years of career counseling with a variety of populations, and one thing I can tell you is that work and personal values differ by individual.

On edit: I said that I can't say if work values are different by gender after working with hundreds of clients in career transition, but now I think it through, they are. Women are far more family and work/life balance oriented than men, generally, though not in all cases. But significantly more. I do know that values change over the lifespan, and according to circumstances, as well.

Second edit: And let's not forget the work of Isabel Myers and Katherine Briggs with the MBTI. They found that on the actual assessment instrument, the MBTI, that there was a gender difference in the dichotomy concerning the way information is processed once it is taken in - more subjectively through feelings, or more objectively through thinking. That is a simplification, but women in their database tended more toward a feeling preference, while men toward thinking. Around 75% of women fall into the feeling preference, while 55% of men fall into the thinking preference category.

What I'm getting at is the question of whether there is a difference in motivation to become a surgeon between women and men? And what about the way medical schools prepare their surgery students? Do they tell them over and over that they are god-like? I have CERTAINLY had surgeons who I could tell felt like that, and all the doctors who have done surgery on me have been male. All of them.

I've had good and not so good. But even the good ones had a sort of distance about them. I cannot explain it much better than that - an appearance of caring, going through all the right motions, saying all the right things, but in the end you the patient must come to the inevitable conclusion that you are just another case. A knee repair. A cancerous mole on the nose. The procedure itself becomes the patient's identity. I wonder, for instance, if the surgeon who repaired my knee would even recognize me? It was only five years ago, but would he?

Of course, all of you know that I despise our monetized healthcare system anyway, so I admit to that bias. I hate the way profits are held more important than people.

This post was fascinating - this whole concept is. Because I have also known shamen. Curanderas. And I'll tell you this - the folk healers I have known, and that is admittedly few, cared. They cared. They did not learn their healing skills using herbs and ritual for profit. They are servants, and most quite humble. In tune with more than just the mechanics of the human body, but the spirit as well.

All speculation, I know, but as I say, demmiblue, this is a truly fascinating post.

[DemocraticPatriot]

24. Women have to try harder, at everything, to be accepted?

And maybe the male surgeons drink more than the females. Who knows.


As a guy, I think I may look for a female surgeon, should such become necessary in the future.

[PatrickforB]

30. Indeed.

[jaxexpat]

33. It's probably because people ask their aquaintances who they'd recommend.

The more serious the condition, the more likely people are to gravitate to the most experienced surgeons. Due to the demographics of surgeons when gauged by gender, it's more likely that male surgeons perform on the most critical patients. I had two surgeries last year. in both cases I asked my personal care physician for a referral. In neither case was a female surgeon given as an option. As in most things, it's ALWAYS who you know and not what you know.

[whathehell]

34. Could it be that many men just don't value women

as much as they do men?

I.believe sexism does take a toll, even if it's on an unconsciousl level ..

[Bayard]

22. Interesting

I wonder if its because women tend to be more detail oriented? They are more empathetic as well.

I also found this little nugget:
Men are better at seeing things in the distance, while women are better focusing on things at close range, according to a British study. "The researchers believe the results may be due to our hunter-gatherer past and reflect how men's and women's brains have evolved differently over time."

My surgeons have always been men, unless you consider the woman doctor who did my colonoscopy last year. I think the men did have a god thing going on. I hate that attitude of--don't worry, we know what's best for you.

[DemocraticPatriot]

25. That IS interesting.

Sounds like women's brains are better suited for surgery than men--- unless they can perform the surgery at longer range, haha

[SunSeeker]

23. Only the best of the best women make it out of med schoool, let alone

Sexism winnows out less talented female surgeons, but not their male counterparts. Female surgeons have to be twice as good as their male counterparts to still make it; their mediocre female counterpart does not. The type of woman who has established herself as a surgeon is basically a superwoman: she has had to overcome barriers that men simply do not have, like sexist professors, hiring directors, juggling kids and a spouse (because you have to be perfect mom even if you have an intense, grueling full time job outside the home!).

[cadoman]

27. sad to hear, but now we know there is a problem

And can begin looking for the causes and ways to fix it.

I wonder what percentages would bring it within the margin of error?

[PurgedVoter]

28. I never quite linked it, but of course it is true and obvious.

My career was mostly technical support. Phone support for other technicians in the field that needed and expert was something I did for years. I have often worked with very competent women and on occasion they have had to ask me to talk to the technician on the other end of the phone.

It was not because I was better at explaining or knew the subject better. It was because the technician, often quite skilled, was incapable of grasping that a female voice could be backed by reason. Over and over again I ran into technicians who were competent but when they were stuck on a problem, they were incapable of hearing a solution if it was voiced by a woman.

There is a type of brain damage that some otherwise brilliant men often have. They are incapable of actually listening to a woman. I don't mean Attention Deficit Disorder, although a lot of good technicians have that. No I mean they are brain damaged in a way that makes them incapable of grasping that a female might have the answer to a problem that they cannot solve.

So back to medicine. No matter how smart you are, if you cannot grasp that the only real source of information available on the history and symptoms that a woman is providing comes from a woman, then you cannot function as a competent doctor for women.

When a doctor assumes that a person is just trying to get out of work, exaggerating pain, probably did it to themselves, just wants pain medication, or is a hypochondriac, that doctor is rendered incompetent by their assumptions and bias. All of these things are possible, but assumptions make otherwise competent individuals, incompetent.

I have on several occasions, saved my wonderful brilliant wife's life by being present in the hospital. I do not know a tenth of what my wife does about medicine, and I do not have her rather amazing diagnostic skills. All I have and all I needed was the ability to observe and the ability to speak with a bass voice.

Sadly, and this is a tragic sorrow, sometimes the person who cannot grasp that a woman can be an accurate source of data is also a woman. So I would suspect that women average worse medical results than a man would, even with a female doctor.

My only solution is that you need to find a doctor who is able to listen and hear a woman without discounting what they say.

[janterry]

31. Sexism is as real today

As it was in my mothers generation, frankly it has gotten much worse

[IronLionZion]

35. I generally choose female doctors and dentists

even though I'm male. That sounds like a good plan if I ever need surgery too.

[Marthe48]

36. In my experience

I haven't had 100% satisfying outcomes whether male or female surgeon. After a shitty result from cataract surgery that ruined my vision, by a male dr. who had followed me for almost 20 years), I hope I never have to have anything done ever again.