Theodore Roosevelt statue removed from outside New York's Museum of Natural History

[brooklynite]

Source: Washington Post

A statue of Theodore Roosevelt, the 26th president of the United States, was removed overnight Wednesday from its spot outside the American Museum of Natural History in New York City.

The towering bronze statue depicts Roosevelt riding a horse, as two nameless African and Native American men flank him on foot.

It has provoked strong debate in the city, as many criticized the apparent subservience of the pair to the White man in the center — calling the scene a symbol of racism and colonialism.

“The statue was meant to celebrate Theodore Roosevelt … as a devoted naturalist and author of works on natural history,” the museum website has said about the removal. “At the same time, the statue itself communicates a racial hierarchy that the Museum and members of the public have long found disturbing.”

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/20/theodore-roosevelt-statue-new-york/

[Bernardo de La Paz]

1. They should put horse & Teddy back, separate the others, put them on higher pedestals looking down.n

[Escurumbele]

11. "put them on higher pedestals looking down." and that would not create problems?

Just take the two others out and put Teddy and his horse back. He was a great president, a progressive, regardless of whether he was a republican or not, he was republican out of stubbornness more than anything, republican politicians did not like him because he wanted to do good for the country and its people, all of them. He fought for people's rights, and he was a very intelligent and interesting man who should be celebrated.

He is the only good republican president this country has ever had.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

24. I thought Lincoln was Republican. He wasn't any good?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

25. Whatever you do creates problems. TR was progressive and the others looking down is partial redress.

[paleotn]

26. Progressive, yes, but with a strong warmonger streak.

Not unusual in his generation.

[eppur_se_muova]

2. Anyone who still holds TR in high regard should read "The Imperial Cruise" by James Bradley ...

From the Phillipines to the Russo-Japanes War to selling out Korea, his actions were those of a dyed-in-the-wool racist.

[cab67]

7. The accuracy of that book is not universally accepted.

No one questions (or should question) that TR was a racist, but this particular book appears to have made some misinterpretations.


https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-american-studies/article/james-bradley-the-imperial-cruise-a-secret-history-of-empire-and-war-new-york-little-brown-and-company-2009-2999-pp-373-isbn978-0-3160-0895-2/D136CC14AD3A4D158234835E850A48D6

[modrepub]

9. I Don't Know If Its Fair

to hold up historical figures to the norms of today's society. Historians generally judge people's character compared to norms at the time they lived. Norms change over time as society evolves. I don't think folks 100 years from now will think much of today's folks' moral compasses (at least I would expect they wouldn't).

And that gets back to one major issue I have with our current society. The utter lack of allowance for people making mistakes. No one is perfect. We all do things we later regret or upon reflection wish we hadn't done. There's almost no allowance for making mistakes in the public arena any more and I think that's a shame.

[demigoddess]

32. isn't there an old saying "those who forget history are doomed to

repeat it"?

[modrepub]

33. It's Not Forgetting

it's context. TR was the ultimate male chauvinist, America First, white privilege poster boy. No getting around it. But in his day that was just accepted as normal. Woman's suffrage was decades away. TR and America were living in the shadow of the Civil War (and Jim Crow). You'd be hard pressed to find very many "progressives" in Victorian America. So for his time, the attitudes he expressed and actions he took were pretty much universally accepted at least by those with power.

History often repeats itself but with subtle differences. Hopefully we struggle, evolve and progress. But that "progress" isn't guaranteed by any means. New generations will have new ways of looking at things and the old ones and old ways will fade into history.

[eppur_se_muova]

37. Telling people one thing and deliberately doing another is not a mistake.

I'm pretty sure that's been against the standards of societies throughout history. But TR felt it was OK to lie to 'little yellow people'.

What was most repugnant about the events of that time was the extent to which all the best and brightest were taught the same pseudo-scientific racist "theory" -- in America's leading universities -- that claimed Caucasian societies were superior to all others, based on pseudo-mythical "histories".

[Escurumbele]

12. Anyone who doesn't should read his biography.

Read the trilogy by Edmund Morris, a great biography.

[link:https://www.amazon.com/Edmund-Morriss-Theodore-Roosevelt-Trilogy/dp/0812958632/ref=sr_1_3?crid=23VLNGOCNT8DQ&keywords=theodore+roosevelt+biography&qid=1642701581&sprefix=theodore+roosevelt+bio%2Caps%2C189&sr=8-3|

You have to realize that some of the decisions he made were, first pro-USA, and second these were decisions inherent to the times.

The decisions I disagreed with, one which I think eventually killed him from agony, was to send his sons to a war where the USA had no reason to be in (like many other wars, of course), one where the opposing forces were too strong and the likelihood of his sons coming back alive were slim. One of them got in the Air Force and didn't even have good vision, he got killed, but his stubbornness of trying to make his sons do the patriotic thing in a stupid war cost one his life and the other was never the same when he came back.

Read the trilogy, they do talk about the action by Roosevelt "The Imperial Cruise" talks about.

All in all, Teddy did more good than bad for the country, he was a real progressive, reason why republican politicians hated him. He is by far the best president the republican party has ever had.

[LT Barclay]

20. Amazing book

I’ve had to learn that the best presidents did some wrong and even the worst do some things right, but overall his decisions were horrible.
I think it is a great companion book to L. Fletcher Prouty’s book centered around JFK’s assassination.

[Glorfindel]

3. Oh, goody...I wonder how long it will be

before they whitewash (ha, ha) the murals in the Theodore Roosevelt Rotunda? They are, after all, wildly offensive.

[Escurumbele]

14. If I am not mistaken, that was built in 1935 when none of that was offensive, on the contrary

it showed that "he was a man"...That is history, people should not be offended by it.

Do I like hunting, killing defenseless animals that cannot shoot back? Of course not, but those were the times. We can't hide history.

And before anyone disputes what I wrote...No, it does not compare to the confederation "heroes", those confederate people wanted to secede, Teddy was just doing what seemed to be the right thing, fashionable thing at the time, and he did it for science whether right or wrong his motives were mostly good. Some hunting he did was for the thrill, I get it, I don't approve it.

Even though he did hunt a lot, he was key to protecting land and animals.

[Glorfindel]

19. I grew up in a hunting society in the southern Appalachians

though I personally never killed anything but squirrels and snakes. I don't even do that anymore. I actually admire ol' Teddy. He was a man of his times, and he did a lot of good things. Except for Dwight Eisenhower, I can't say that about any other rePuke presidents of the 20th or 21st Centuries. I was truly being sarcastic about the murals. I sincerely hope they won't be whitewashed. They're not great art, but I enjoy looking at them.

[DarwinsRetriever]

4. It would be tough to name more than 10 presidents that weren't racist (nt)

[Pantagruel]

5. "10 presidents that weren't racist."

Bingo!
That's why the goobers are so frightened of anything illuminating like CRT.

[Escurumbele]

15. He was not racist. He nominated the first black person to office and he got a lot of

negativity from doing that. The first black official to have dinner with a USA president in the White House.


In 1901, President Theodore Roosevelt invited African-American educator Booker T. Washington, who had become close to the president, to dine with his family at the White House. Several other presidents had invited African-Americans to meetings at the White House, but never to a meal. And in 1901, segregation was law.

[ripcord]

21. Including TR's cousin nt

[FakeNoose]

22. Our cultural definition of "racism" has changed and evolved with the times

It would be absurd to judge people who lived in previous centuries by the standards of our current time. That includes our evolving definition of racism, but so much more besides.

[andym]

6. This is fodder for the GOP's culture wars.

TR was a trust-busting progressive who acted against the monied interests of his day as well as supporting conservation. Perhaps they can create a statue with just TR on a horse as a compromise.

[jmowreader]

8. Yeah, that's what I was thinking

There are a LOT of sculptors in this country who could cut the other two people off the sculpture, create new panels to fill in the gaps the other two people’s removal would cause, then weld in the new panels and put TR back outside the Museum. All bronze sculptures are welded together anyway.

[Escurumbele]

16. Well explained...Thank you...History in a paragraph.

[maxsolomon]

39. Or just standing there in a suit, life size, on the ground.

It implied, very strongly, subservience and inferiority.

It's being sent to ND, and will be recontextualized.

The Roosevelt statue will be on long-term loan to the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library due to open in 2026, in North Dakota, where Roosevelt spent time in the Badlands. The presidential library was termed “a fitting new home” by New York City officials when the decision was made last year, noting it could be “appropriately contextualized” there.

The GQP will forget about this statue; they don't need the ammo for their culture wars.

[llashram]

10. I don't say this lightly(1860

but with conviction, t. Roosevelt was racist. On the level of TFG. Talked to my grandfather some years back about the crusade to protect American business interests in Cuba. Otherwise known as the Spanish-American War. Under that guise and alleged by CT a false flag operation as instigated by Newspaper publisher Hearst someone or some "terrorists" blew up and sank the battleship U.S.S. Maine. My grandfather, a soldier in the Cuban Incursion, told me simply, "Roosevelt hated Negroes and to never forget". I had shown interest because I being an Army brat got interested in all things military---historically.

All these so-called leaders statues should be taken down and melted into a wall depicting a black man in chains(1860---to a black man in chains---2022)

[Escurumbele]

18. The Cuban war where Teddy participated and fought was against the Spaniards

He fought to liberate Cuba, had nothing to do with black people. You do know that Spaniards are mostly white, right?

[IronLionZion]

23. US interests were in the sugar plantations

Spain used African slaves. Prior to the US civil war, confederate states were interested in taking Cuba as another slave state or territory.

Slavery in the Americas had ended by the time of the Spanish-American war so it was marketed as Cuban independence

[llashram]

36. okay

never said the S-AWar was about black people. And yes I know the average Spaniard is caucasian-European white.

The liberation of Cuba was a by-product of the S-AWar. My grandfather was with one of the units that pulled Roosevelt and his unit out of the fire(literally)where they were in danger of being overrun on San Juan Hill. And that after my grandfather's unit's had pushed the 'Spainards' back on the real meat grinder the battle for Kettle Hill. All African-American troops did this. San Juan Hill; was just a political photo op for the guy who would become POTUS. You know that right? And T. Roosevelt was a committed racist. Right?

[alfredo]

31. The Maine sunk due to a boiler exploding.

Did Hearst know the truth?
Hearst’s newspaper was printed on yellow paper. Yellow Journalism

[eppur_se_muova]

38. Captain Sigsbee, the Maine's skipper, suspected that the explosion was caused by a fire in...

... a coal bunker next to a reserve magazine (i.e. a storage area for ammo/gunpowder), which was a frequent mishap on steam-driven warships.

In 1935, FDR sent the Spanish govt. an official Navy Dept. communication absolving Spain of any culpability in the explosion.

from Imperial Cruise

Funny, I've never seen that mentioned in our history books.

[llashram]

40. A lot...volumns

of history HAS NEVER shown up in history books here in America. One of those questions that make me say "hmmm"...Arsenio Hall I think coined that.

[Brother Buzz]

13. Could we replace it with a hologram of Robin Williams riding through the museum?

[harumph]

17. Apart from the colonialism controversy, it was a bad statue aesthetically.

I mean it's just ridiculous - TR looks like a marvel superhero - huge chest - pecks, etc.,
Silly.

[Ron Obvious]

27. Historical Context

People shouldn't be judged outside their historical context. Nobody in history could survive being judged by modern standards because they're products of their own time.

This is the kind of thing that gives the left a bad name.

[empedocles]

28. Hurts the leftmalong the political spectrum, - for getting things done

"Cancel culture' can be unfair.


[Worth considering. https://www.verywellmind.com/the-mental-health-effects-of-cancel-culture-5119201]

[question everything]

29. Roosevelt was a President! Another cancel culture that will cost us

We should not judge former public figures in today's opinions of some.

Who is next? Washington? Jefferson?

TR established the Forest Service and the National Parks!

I will not be surprised to see this used successfully in the next elections.

[cinematicdiversions]

30. Wait till they come after Jimmy Carter.

Former southern democratic Governor

And they will. Because it feeds the holier than though outrage machine.

[generalbetrayus]

34. Just a side note to the Teddy Roosevelt controversy

A wealthy paleontologist named Henry Fairfield Osborn was president of the American Museum's Board of Trustees between 1908 and 1933. According to the WaPo article, the statue was commissioned in 1925. Osborn was a virulent racist himself and a eugenicist. In 1924, he published an article in the museum's popular magazine, Natural History, in which he all but stated outright that Blacks were a separate, lower species, and that East Asians weren't a whole lot higher on the evolutionary scale.

[tavernier]

35. I was with a tour group in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

We came upon a headless statue somewhere in the outskirts of the city. She told us that when the governments changed, they often removed the heads of statues and put them in storage and replaced them with more popular heads.Then when the regimes turned around, they would switch them out again.

We all had a big laugh and appreciated the humor of the lady who appeared to be a wonderful representative of the common citizen.