Study: Gas stoves worse for climate than previously thought

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

By SETH BORENSTEIN

Gas stoves are contributing more to global warming than previously thought because of constant tiny methane leaks while they’re off, a new study found.

The same study that tested emissions around stoves in homes raised new concerns about indoor air quality and health because of levels of nitrogen oxides measured.

Even when they are not running, U.S. gas stoves are putting 2.6 million tons (2.4 million metric tons) of methane — in carbon dioxide equivalent units — into the air each year, a team of California researchers found in a study published in Thursday’s journal Environmental Science & Technology. That’s equivalent to the annual amount of greenhouse gases from 500,000 cars or what the United States puts into the air every three-and-a-half hours.

“They’re constantly bleeding a little bit of methane into the atmosphere all the time,” said the study’s co-author Rob Jackson, a Stanford University climate scientist.



In this photo provided by climate scientist Rob Jackson, researcher Eric Lebel samples natural gas from a stove in Stanford, Calif., in 2021. According to a study published Thursday, Jan. 27, 2022, in the journal Environmental Science & Technology, gas stoves are worse for the climate than previously thought because of constant tiny methane leaks even while they’re off. (Rob Jackson via AP)


Read more: https://apnews.com/article/climate-science-california-united-states-environment-5750b9cec67fb0ae3075d654eddad2f6

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Our house was built all electric in 1975. In 1986 the furnace was converted to gas. Everything else is still electric.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

1. Interesting study. Thanks for posting. . . nt

[L. Coyote]

2. If exhaust fans are not adequate, or worse, not used, you poison yourself using gas stoves.

I moved into a household with migraine headache sufferers, cured them the first week by enforcing proper use of the cook stove! Also, tested for gas leaks, found two in the cook stove line and one in the furnace. When I started noticing a headache while in my office, I'd go to the kitchen to see who forgot to use the fan.

[FoxNewsSucks]

3. I still love my gas stove.

I do wish my furnace and hot water heater were electric, since we have a municipal utility electric bills aren't as outrageous as corporate utility bills.

When I stay at AirBnB's with electric stoves, it just reminds me that nothing beats a good gas stove.

[Miguelito Loveless]

7. Switched to an induction stove

and have no regrets. Precision heat delivery.

[FoxNewsSucks]

9. Aren't those the kind where you have to use specific cookware?

[Miguelito Loveless]

11. Works with iron or steel cookware

or aluminum with a steel disk on the bottom. Generates a oscillating magnetic field which heat the pan directly, leaving the top of the stove much cooler. Fewer burns, cleaner air, less energy wasted.

[lostnfound]

23. The pans seem really heavy. Are they all? Nt

[Miguelito Loveless]

27. I have non-stick cookware

with a think metal disk on the bottom, they are perceptibly heavier than cookware without the disk, but not problematically so.

[lostnfound]

53. Not problematically so for a house with weak people...

I have little arm strength and achy hands and find them too heavy when full. Good to know they are responsive for cooking, might try them in the future again. But the weight is a problem for some people.

[Miguelito Loveless]

54. Understood

The disk adds maybe 6 ozs of weight to the regular pan, so enough that it is noticeable if you were holding a full pan.

[cstanleytech]

12. Wanted to get one of those when our stove went out but was out of our price range sadly.

[Miguelito Loveless]

21. Unfortunately it is pricey to start

but saves money over life of stove in reduced energy use. That an not going to explode or asphyxiate you if a line fails.

[hunter]

16. This is the technology that will replace gas cooktops...

... especially in places where new gas installations are discouraged or banned.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/23/berkeley-natural-gas-ban-environment

[jimfields33]

13. Probably true but we need to ban them. Thankfully NYC has done just that

Hopefully soon the country will.

[OneCrazyDiamond]

31. There are so many things we need to ban, but

sadly we have large swaths of the electorate who are too ignorant to understand how deadly these issues are, and who will be impacted.

[Polybius]

45. NYC banned them?

I'm in NYC and 90% of my friends have them. Are you sure?

[jimfields33]

46. Yes. But I'm sure there's a date that requires the ban.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/12/15/nyregion/nyc-gas-stove-heat-ban.amp.html

[brooklynite]

50. "In new buildings"

electricity is much more expensive in NYC; gas stoves and heaters are ubiquitous.

[Auggie]

19. Agree

[Demovictory9]

59. I had an electric stove for years...had become accustomed to it. back to gas now

not a gourmet cooker so i'm ok with either.

[mainer]

5. Curious if it's the same for propane stoves

I think this study was just about natural gas, but i assume the same issue of micro-leaks and poor connections also applies to propane.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

8. Propane has no greenhouse gas impact, but will produce nitrogen oxides during stove combustion. . nt

[Farmer-Rick]

51. It also produces Carbon Monoxide which can be seriously deadly

But most newer smoke alarms also detect this gas. There are also portable carbon monoxide dectors but some can be seriously expensive. There are plug in detectors that are real cheap.

[ProfessorGAC]

55. So Can Methane

The mechanism of combustion is the same for propane and methane. The propensity to create carbon monoxide is awfully close to the same. Both very low.
The thing that MIGHT get in the way is that we need 10 oxygen atoms (5 molecules) for every propanemolecule. A 3.333 to 1 ratio of carbon atoms to oxygen.
For methane, the ratio iz 3:1.
So, for propane it's easier to get incomplete combustion.
But, on a stove that shouldn't be a problem since there should be plenty of free air flow.

[ProfessorGAC]

64. Actually It Does

Less than methane because the molar absorptivity of propane is lower, and a kg contains fewer moles.
All organic compounds have some degree of ultraviolet absorption, and the same with infrared.
It's the reason why each organic compound can be spectrally fingerprinted.
And, all combustion has the potential to create NO2 (nitrogen dioxide) because of radicalization in the plasma.
So, methane does it too.
They're both saturated hydrocarbons (alkenes) so the chemical mechanisms each can undergo are identical in all but total bond energy (per unit mass) & kinetic rate.
PhD: Physical organic chemistry, 1980. Çarbon based reactions, I know.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

65. I love organic chemistry. Propane is negligible

Propane has a negligible greenhouse gas effect compared to methane due to its fragility. While active they may or may not be comparable as to re-radiation as heat, but the lifetimes dominate, I think.

I looked it up before I posted, but this is a little more definitive and credible:

Due to a long atmospheric lifetime (~12 years), methane [...] shorter-lived ethane (months) and propane (weeks).

https://www.nilu.com/2018/02/ethane-and-propane-help-scientists-understand-the-greenhouse-gas-methane/

[ProfessorGAC]

66. I'll Disagree A Bit

The shorter life of longer chain alkenes is caused by the uV splitting the chain.
They absorb A LOT of energy to radicalize between the carbons, and the decomposition is exothermic.
I concur they're shorter duration, but there is a lot of energy released by decomposition for which I don't think they're taking full account.
I read it as a measure of long term absorptivity. Sort of like measuring heat of combustion without accounting for the enthalpy of water formed.
My specialties in organic were mechanisms & kinetics, plus behavior of 2 phase systems.
Did it for 43 years before I retired.
It served me well. I retired very comfortably.
In undergrad, I was trying to decide between physics & chemistry. I went with chem for 2 reasons.
One, organic flipped me out! Two, one can get a good job in industry with a BS in chemistry. I was 16 when I started college. Obviously, I couldn't know I'd end up with advanced degrees anyway.
I graduated at 19, went to work & spent the next 4 years part time getting the higher degrees. But, I got a decent job without them, AND the companies paid for everything else. Worked out good for me, I'd say.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. Generally, an all-electric house does not have a furnace to convert to gas

Generally, an all-electric house has no furnace. It has electric heating, like baseboard heating, or sub-floor heating.

I live in one.


Home electric furnaces with forced air circulation are rare. Did you have one such? I had never heard of them until I checked just in case the possibility I imagined existed and it does but it is rare.

[FoxNewsSucks]

10. I lived in a couple "all-electric" apartments.

There was something in the utility closet that I called a furnace, I didn't know that furnaces were only gas-burning. It looked similar to the gas furnaces, blower + heating unit. I just call them all "furnaces".

[Omaha Steve]

14. The house was converted before we got here in 2006

It was electric, forced air when it was built. Some homes in our subdivision still have it.

[Sgent]

36. Pretty much

every home below the Mason-Dixon line that has central AC (all of them) have either an electric furnace or an electric + gas furnace, and all of them should switch to heat pumps when they next replace their units.

That said, in a lot of areas (TN, VA, etc.) heat pumps by themselves are not enough and will need either electric or gas secondary heat.

[dalton99a]

15. Gas stoves were immensely helpful during the Texas ice storm when many had no power

[FoxNewsSucks]

20. I forgot about that

I remember as a little kid we lived in Indiana. Power went out a lot more often, and having the stove on and the oven door open made the kitchen the only somewhat warm room in the house.

[Igel]

42. During the aftermath of Ike in Houston, ditto.

Some families were without electricity for weeks.

They could cook, at the very least.

During Ike, power was out. Day after it failed breakfast was pancakes with turkey bacon. Dinner was chicken vindaloo with basmati. We had a propane camp stove.

During the February icemageddon 2021 the only solace for my child was being able to feed him warm meals and hot chocolate or tea. Had to have matches, because the electric ignition spark wasn't there, but we have matches.

Now, keeping the oven door open strikes me as a bit risky. On the other hand, when it's cold out (and in, thermostat's at 62 F for heating and 79 F for cooling) I bake and roast a lot. Then I chuck the results in the freezer. When it's 98 degrees out in summer I thaw out the roasted and baked goods instead of using the oven to heat air and metal and the AC to cool the same air and the same metal. I figure the freezer electricity costs/etc. are smaller than the summer cooling costs would be, esp. when it comes to the strain on the electrical grid.

[Maeve]

22. When we were without power for a week, the gas range made it a lot easier

We could make tea or soup, fry up food from the (thawing) freezer. It was a September in Ohio, so not too bad, but our neighbors with all electric were not so comfortable.

I understand the problem and the reasons for leaving gas, but...infrastructure and more control when cooking!

[rockfordfile]

24. That's because of pos Texas, a fossil fuel state.

[Igel]

43. Not just.

A lot of hay was made on the wind v gas sourced energy.

The majority of the electricity loss was due to natural gas pipelines freezing or natural gas electrical generation plants shutting down.

However, wind turbines shut down at a higher rate than natural gas generation facilities. Since they're a smaller percentage of the mix, the higher rate of shut-downs of wind turbines had a smaller effect than the lower rate of natural-gas generation shut-downs.

ERCOT gets some of the blame because when they cut power they actually cut power to some circuits that were needed for transporting NG. Restarting plants also requires power, and some power plants were blacked out. (I view this as a problem with all bureaucracies, with every bureaucrat saying, "My bureaucracy would *never* do that!" but when push comes to shove, no bureaucracy's immune to incompetence.)

That said, it's been easier to weatherize the NG pipelines and generation plants than the wind turbines.

[Sgent]

37. Newer stoves

often cannot light without a thermocouple and an electric start.

[twodogsbarking]

17. Approximately 130,000 homes in the US still use coal furnaces.

Half of them are in Pennsylvania.
Coal delivered in truck. Shovel coal into cellar. Shovel coal in the furnace. Repeat process multiple times during day. Remove ashes from furnace. Haul them outside and find somewhere to get rid of them. Clean house often to remove soot from walls.

If you have never had the experience consider yourself fortunate.

[rockfordfile]

26. We have to get away from coal burning crap like that.

[IbogaProject]

34. It's only loaded once or twice per day.

It's only loaded once or twice per day. My mom grew up with one. I forget whether she said her Dad loaded it once or twice, I'm pretty sure it was just once. Dirty and less convenient than gas or electric heat, but less explosion danger than gas.

[dsc]

62. My dad had one of those growing up

and it was horrible. I never saw the house he grew up in so I don't know exactly how it worked.

[rainin]

18. Great! *sarcasm* I just bought a $4000 gas range.

How do I make sure it isn't leaking?

[Probatim]

29. That's the right question to ask. If anyone knows, please advise.

[Farmer-Rick]

52. Don't confuse propane gas stoves

With the natural gas stoves. I was confused about it because the stove title does not have a difference.

Here in the country we have a large propane tank in the ground. If you get a leak of that, it smells to high heaven. But I have detectors too.

[MissB]

69. Ha

Yeah I’m buying a new gas range soon. Dual fuel actually. Electric oven, gas cooktop.

[rockfordfile]

25. No fossil fuel stoves this isn't the 70s80s. Electric all the way.

[Probatim]

28. I guess I'll have to start walking more - I love my gas stove.

[twodogsbarking]

30. Always had electric but have natural gas stove installed soon.

Looking forward to it.

[Probatim]

32. I have a Dual Fuel setup from KitchenAid - gas top and electric convection oven.

Bought it 10 years ago and loved the switch to a gas stovetop.

I'd love it even more if I could 50% more output from the larger burners, but that's an upgrade I can't afford.

[MissB]

70. I bought an electric car

Does that count?

[IbogaProject]

33. I never liked Gas stoves

I never liked Gas stoves. I grew up with the old school GE electric stove & oven. The only difference is limited power levels, and you have to lift the pan off briefly when lowering the heat in order to cool the heating element faster.

Whomever coined the term, 'natural gas' better be getting roasted over a gas flame on a spit in hades.

[FakeNoose]

35. It's the pilot light - a tiny flame inside the stove that's always burning

The old style of gas stove meant you had to light a match to start the burner each time. But the invention of pilot lights means no match is needed. Same with gas furnaces and gas water heaters. That pilot light is always burning even when you don't use the appliance.

I've always wondered how much pilot lights contribute to air pollution and the global warming crisis, and now I know.

[Crepuscular]

38. ...

Most gas appliances have not used pilot lights for about 20+ years now.

[FakeNoose]

39. Oh maybe you think so

I have a gas stove, hot water heater and furnace. All 3 run on pilot lights.

[Crepuscular]

40. ...

I doubt that they were manufactured in the last 20 years or so.

[Mopar151]

41. With, or without pilot lights?

Our (Frigidaire Gallery) stove is pilotless. Top burners can be lit with a match if power is out. (Electronic spark ignition) Broiler and oven are controlled by "hot zone igniters", which keep the gas off without electricity.
It's no small distinction. I've heard that a significant portion of gas consumption in the US is from pilot lights.

[dalton99a]

47. +1

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

56. My stove has electronic ignition. The water heater and furnace (steam boiler) have pilot lights.

The pilot lights on the boiler and the water heater are always on, and always putting a little heat into the water, even if the main burner is off. Dunno if that is wasteful or not. I appreciated the water heater's pilot light system when the electricity was out for a few days.

[cadoman]

44. it's critical to look at the fuel process from start to end

But I still kinda suspect gas is not nearly as bad as this headline indicates.

It also doesn't factor in that with this info, we could improve the mechanical and electrical parts on stoves to eliminate it.

Regardless, we can rest 100% assured that scientists in California will guide us to the right conclusion.

[orleans]

48. well, this is something for me to keep in mind when i start resenting my

electric stove

i moved into a condo that has all electric--including heating and the stove.
i had never used an electric stove before. i hated it. i miss my house, my gas stove, my gas furnace.
for whatever weird ass reason--i have never used the oven on this stove. not once. (and this coming from someone who used to think: i know it's one in the morning but i feel like making a cake. and i would)

i also hate that the heat vents are up by the ceiling so i'm warming up the folks upstairs instead of in my condo.

i never had a dryer in my house either. grew up without one. we used a clothes line in the laundry room (or i'd hang up clothes outside on nice days.)
here there is a little laundry room--no room for a clothes line. but i managed to buy one of those tripod clothes hangers and have it in a second bathroom so i only use the dryer for towels.

so i've tried to be "green" when it comes to washing; now i can tell myself that, in spite of my shit attitude toward the stove, at least it's greener than the beloved gas one i used to live with.

(not a fan of change--obviously)

[madville]

49. Natural ocean sea floor vents release multitudes more gas

Makes some seeping stoves pretty much negligible.

[Crepuscular]

57. ...

What is not mentioned in this article is what would be the comparable impact of increased electrical use resulting from scrapping gas stoves. Moving to an all electric society to reduce environmental impacts only makes sense if the required electrical capacity is generated by non-fossil fuel sources. Since there seems to be little stomach for increasing the amount of Nuclear capacity, unless there is a huge expansion of wind and solar (both of which have their own environmental impacts), it seems like it might be a wee bit premature to suggest scrapping gas stoves, at this point. I'm not giving up mine any time soon as a do a lot of cooking and detest electric stoves. We put in an PV system (Panels and Battery) that provides 75% of our annual electrical needs and are on the list to get a Rivian sometime later this year so that's my contribution to saving the climate but you are going to have to pry my gas stove from my cold, dead hands.

[hunter]

58. Nuclear power is the only energy source capable of displacing fossil fuels entirely.

If we don't have the "stomach" for nuclear power then our civilization is flaming toast, along with whatever is left of the natural environment as we know it.

Aggressive renewable energy schemes in places like California, Germany, and Denmark have failed and will only prolong our dependence on fossil fuels.

Nuclear powered France closed its last coal mine twenty years ago. Anti-nuclear Germany is still digging up and burning coal like there's no tomorrow. Meanwhile residential and small business consumers in Germany pay nearly twice as much for electricity as those in France.

Promoting renewable energy schemes is just another flavor of climate change denial, sometimes cynically promoted by the fossil fuel companies themselves. (Ask yourself, would Texas tolerate wind turbines if they were an actual threat the natural gas industry?)

I used to be a hard core anti-nuclear activist. I'm not any more. I was still in the anti-nuclear camp when I signed onto DU twenty years ago.

We humans have worked ourselves into a tight spot. With the human population approaching 8 billion we are dependent on high density energy sources for our food, shelter, and livelihoods.

If we can't quit fossil fuels billions of us are going to suffer and die. If we keep pretending wind, solar, and magical batteries are going to "save the world" billions of us are going to suffer and die.

Gas stoves alone are not a big part of the problem and could be easily converted to burn synthetic fuels like Dimethyl Ether for those who believe they *must* cook with gas... which includes my wife, even though I do most of the cooking in our house and would have preferred an inductive range.

No scrapping gas stoves necessary.

My sister has my great grandmother's wood stove. My great grandma cooked on it and heated her house and her bathwater with it. I remember those meals, I remember those once weekly baths when we were staying with her.

The stove still works but my sister doesn't use it much for cooking or heating. But she could.

I'm not sure the generation following ours, those who never knew my great grandma and the immense importance of that stove in her daily life, will feel much attachment to it.

"Cooking with gas" is the next "cooking with wood." Most people will have moved on.

[dalton99a]

61. +1. Nuclear power and desalination will be key

It is utterly foolish for Germany and California to scrap their nuclear plants

[Hotler]

60. Go after he major corporate polluters and clean them up first...

and then we can talk about my gas stove.

[Kaleva]

63. I have an LP gas stove and I want to keep it.

[hunter]

67. I don't think government agents are going to come to your door to take your stove.

My wife and one of my brothers are both "cooking with gas" fanatics. My brother cooks on a huge antique black iron and nickle gas range that must have cost a small fortune when it was new, and he paid another small fortune to fully restore it and bring it up to modern standards.

These new laws discouraging natural gas use are about new construction.

"Bottled" gas isn't going to go away anytime soon even if fossil fuels are ultimately banned, which they ought to be.

Dimethyl Ether (DME) is a synthetic bottled gas very similar to propane. It even has the potential to cost less than propane in some near-future scenarios. Appliances that can be converted to use either propane or natural gas can be converted to use DME.

Ultimately DME might be synthesized from atmospheric or oceanic carbon dioxide using nuclear power.

On the other hand, single burner inductive stoves are accessible to anyone with about $100 to spare. Inductive stoves are not the expensive technology they used to be.

But I'll confess, I use our microwave oven and air fryer more than I use our gas range.

[Kaleva]

68. The stove at the old family farm was a combination wood and LP gas unit

The wood part was mostly used just in winter as it helped heat the house and it also had a water jacket which added humidity to the air.

[Emile]

71. Still nicer to cook on a gas stove over electric.