Archives asks Justice Department to investigate Trump's handling of White House records
Source: Washington Post
The National Archives and Records Administration has asked the Justice Department to examine Donald Trumps handling of White House records, sparking discussions among federal law enforcement officials about whether they should investigate the former president for a possible crime, according to two people familiar with the matter.
The referral from the National Archives came amid recent revelations that officials recovered 15 boxes of materials from the former presidents Mar-a-Lago residence that werent handed back in to the government as they should have been, and that Trump had turned over other White House records that had been torn up. Archives officials suspected Trump had possibly violated laws concerning the handling of government documents including those that might be considered classified and reached out to the Justice Department, the people familiar with the matter said.
The people spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a politically sensitive request. The two people said the discussions about the matter remained preliminary, and it was not yet clear whether the Justice Department would investigate. The department also might be interested in merely reclaiming classified materials. A Justice Department spokesman declined to comment.
Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/09/trump-archives-justice-department/
mobeau69
(11,156 posts)Destruction of government property. Just for starters.
Ray Bruns
(4,110 posts)Hekate
(90,779 posts)I seen him! He done it! is not sufficient in a constitutional republic.
COL Mustard
(5,918 posts)But damn, it's hard not to want him just locked away forever.
lastlib
(23,272 posts)THEN we can hang his fat ass! (In his case, a trial isn't fair if it doesn't result in a conviction.....IMHO)
Ray Bruns
(4,110 posts)Just tired of him dancing through the raindrops while some schmuck selling loose cigarettes gets murdered by the police.
onecaliberal
(32,888 posts)DENVERPOPS
(8,844 posts)The supply of investigators at Justice has to be running pretty thin by now...............
The thing yesterday with Trump telling his cult followers to get violent and then elect him and he will pardon them should be enough, all by itself........Insurrection, Sedition, Treason, put him in a cell with an orange jump suit while he waits for trial.......and feed him green bologna lunchmeat like his favorite wardens like to do to the occupants of their jails.....
tishaLA
(14,176 posts)You know it's going to happen within the hour.
leftieNanner
(15,144 posts)That if Trump took classified materials to Maraloco, that it's a crime of a different stripe. Having classified documents in your possession when you are not permitted to, is a serious felony.
Here's hoping.
DENVERPOPS
(8,844 posts)that he and Jared pilfered countless Top Secret Papers, and intelligence information for sale after his occupation of the WH.....
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)We are just going to proceed with the status quo of protecting the rich and powerful in this country.
Least they could do is prosecute the Pig and get him banned from holding office if convicted.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,492 posts)brooklynite
(94,713 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(145,492 posts)You do realize that there is no constitutional right to hold office and there are statutes that restrict this right. I am following and enjoying the efforts to ban that Cawthorn idiot form the ballot.
Link to tweet
North Carolina may well ban Cawthorn from the 2022 ballot and I suspect that such a ruling will hold up. Cawthorn's main response so far has been to promise violence which is really sad.
Here this penalty provision of the Presidential Records Act should be tested and TFG is a good test case. I remember the Nixon years and follow the impeachment/Watergate saga closely. The penalty provisions in the Presidential Records Act were crafted to deal with assholes like Nixon and TFG.
BTW, it appears that these provisions are going to be tested in that there is a referral from the Archives to the DOJ
poli-junkie
(1,005 posts)orleans
(34,073 posts)brooklynite
(94,713 posts)That's it. If you attempted to apply this law to Trump, he'd take it to the Supreme Court and would win by more than the 6-3 conservative margin
orleans
(34,073 posts)HariSeldon
(455 posts)It does not state that additional limitations on eligibility to be president cannot be created by law.
brooklynite
(94,713 posts)By your logic, Congress could pass a law that no woman could be President. The Court would never uphold that.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,492 posts)Here is an article that lists a number of US Code provisions that apply. I love the title of this article and it covers three different statutes that are used during presidential transitions. Set forth below is the applicable statute.
Destroying Federal Documents During a Presidential Transition Is a Federal Crime
https://www.justsecurity.org/73265/destroying-federal-documents-during-a-presidential-transition-is-a-federal-crime/
18 U.S. Code §2071. Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally provides:
(a) Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
(b) Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States .
Here is the DOJ's explanation of this statute https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1663-protection-government-property-protection-public-records-and
The acts proscribed by this section are defined broadly. Essentially three types of conduct are prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 2071(a). These are: (1) concealment, removal, mutilation, obliteration or destruction of records; (2) any attempt to commit these proscribed acts; and (3) carrying away any record with the intent to conceal, remove, mutilate or destroy it. It should be noted that all of these acts involve either misappropriation of or damage to public records. This has led one court to conclude that the mere photocopying of these records does not violate 18 U.S.C. § 2071. See United States v. Rosner, 352 F. Supp. 915, 919-22 (S.D.N.Y. 1972).
Subsection (b) of 18 U.S.C. § 2071 contains a similar prohibition specifically directed at custodians of public records. Any custodian of a public record who "willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys (any record) shall be fined not more than $2,000 or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States." While the range of acts proscribed by this subsection is somewhat narrower than subsection (a), it does provide the additional penalty of forfeiture of position with the United States.
This statute applies to TFG and if nothing else the fine and criminal penalties would be amusing.
brooklynite
(94,713 posts)Yes there are statutes which bar someone from running for Federal Office. And none of them have been tested in Court. The Constitution does not limit one's ability to run for or serve as President other than the points I raised. If the codes you specified were applied to Trump, he would, as I said before take it to Court on the grounds of being unconstitutional.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,492 posts)Again, laypersons are really amusing when they attempt and fail to understand simple legal concepts. This law has not been tested in court yet, but that would not stop this law from being used as part of a larger case against TFG.
Personally, I am more interested in the DOJ seeking prison time against TFG if the DOJ pursues this matter. Three years is a significant penalty for someone like TFG. Such charge would likely be brought in connection with a conspiracy charge. Destruction of evidence would booster such a complaint. I agree with Glenn Kirshner on this https://www.rawstory.com/trump-2656618450/?cx_testId=6&cx_testVariant=cx_undefined&cx_artPos=1&cx_experienceId=EXC93HV4HK4I#cxrecs_s
Not only is that a 3-year federal felony, but importantly anybody who is convicted under that statute is prohibited from holding federal office, Kirschner added.
If nothing else, if TFG runs again, Joe will have fun using this against TFG. Section 2701 is the same law that TFG claimed would disqualify Hillary
Link to tweet
I also like Littman's other suggestion
Link to tweet
Response to orleans (Reply #13)
brooklynite This message was self-deleted by its author.
Grasswire2
(13,571 posts)Woo hoo!
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)Last edited Wed Feb 9, 2022, 07:06 PM - Edit history (1)
Emile
(22,886 posts)of government property is against federal law!
Destruction Of Government Property -- 18 U.S.C. § 1361. Section 1361 protects "any property" of the United States or an agency or department thereof, or any property being manufactured or constructed for the United States or an agency or department thereof, from willful depredation or attempted depredation.Jan 17, 2020
ificandream
(9,385 posts)... he should never be able to hold office again.
[link:https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/kimmel-spots-legal-fine-print-060140917.html|]
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,492 posts)Link to tweet
Here is the link to the report mentioned by Professor Beschloss
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R46129/4
Section 3106, of the U.S. Code requires the head of a federal agency to notify the Archivist, who
initiates action with the Attorney General for the possible recovery of such records.22 The
Archivist is not authorized to independently investigate removal or recover records.23
_________________
22 Under Title 18, Section 2071, of the U.S. Code, anyone found guilty of willfully and unlawfully concealing, removing, mutilating, obliterating, destroying, or attempting to do any such action against a record can be fined and imprisoned for up to three years. In addition to fines and possible imprisonment, anyone holding federal office who is convicted of this crime can lose his or her position and be disqualified from holding federal office in the future
NQAS
(10,749 posts)do we get to see the actual images of the love letters from Kim Jong un and the translations?
JustAnotherGen
(31,869 posts)After all that bullshit about 'her emails' - this is worth an investigation.
Bring 45's ass into the House, and have that thing sit through 12 hours of questioning.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,492 posts)I would love to see TFG sit for 11 hours.
JustAnotherGen
(31,869 posts)HRC to be a member of the audience!
She should live tweet throughout
sdfernando
(4,940 posts)his ability to sit for 11 hours depends....it all depends!
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,492 posts)cstanleytech
(26,318 posts)ancianita
(36,132 posts)think is that the DOJ is overworked, undermanned and underfunded, because they're drowning in federal criminality.
LoisB
(7,223 posts)criminal who happens to have been President and protecting the Office of the Presidency from future retribution by the ReThugs if they regain Congressional power. They will go after Joe and any future Democratic president with a vengeance. At least, that's how I see it.
Joinfortmill
(14,449 posts)texasleo
(11,298 posts)spudspud
(511 posts)Last edited Fri Feb 11, 2022, 07:28 AM - Edit history (1)
[link:|
Miguelito Loveless
(4,470 posts)Up to three years per count if memory serves. Charge him, the case is open and shut.
PSPS
(13,613 posts)JohnSJ
(92,372 posts)hamsterjill
(15,223 posts)Behind all of the other investigations they are supposedly doing.
Trump is a criminal many times over. Why has he not been charged?
LastLiberal in PalmSprings
(12,591 posts)T**** an destroy his legacy. Other presidents have done it(name one). The documents were his to do with he liked while he was in office. (wasn't this already answered in the negative by the SCOTUS?) He need these documents for his presidential library (prison libraries are pretty small).
NewHendoLib
(60,018 posts)Hekate
(90,779 posts)Traildogbob
(8,791 posts)Thom Hartmann noted that he and Melania took other items, State gifts etc. out of our house. Many boxes of White House property. But our amazing media, just like their unwillingness to call his lies, lies, are soft speaking about the outright THEFT of these idiots. Saying things like borrowed, misplaced, accidentally packed up. These people are downright white trash lying thieves, as Jesus would do.
DownriverDem
(6,231 posts)We have the Presidential Records Act of 1978.
https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html
fierywoman
(7,689 posts)NullTuples
(6,017 posts)If so this is theater, and a distraction.
hamsterjill
(15,223 posts)The intent has to be proven. Intent to deceive, defraud or cover up evidence. At least that was the opinion of the pundits.
NullTuples
(6,017 posts)However, if he took highly classified documents home with him after he left the White House, that's a whole different law altogether.
It'll be interesting to see if he gets treated the same as say Chelsea Manning (exposed war crimes) or Reality Winner (exposed Russian interference that helped Trump).
It's all up to AG Garland now. Let's see what he chooses to do.
LudwigPastorius
(9,167 posts)Trump's probably beefing up his "legal defense fund" by selling NATO military secrets to Putin.
Naaah...who am I kidding? Trump always stiffs his lawyers.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,492 posts)We need to have six different Congressional committees to investigate this matter just like the GOP did for Benghazi. I am glad that one House committee is reviewing this matter
Link to tweet
In a letter sent Wednesday to Archivist of the United States David S. Ferriero, Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-N.Y.) requested information to examine the extent and impact of Trumps apparent violations of the Presidential Records Act, which requires the preservation of memos, letters, notes, emails, faxes and other written communications related to a presidents official duties.
The letter, provided to The Washington Post, asked for a detailed inventory of the contents of the recovered boxes, a description of records that Trump destroyed or attempted to destroy without the approval of the Archives, and whether the contents are undergoing a review to determine if they contain classified information. Maloney also asked whether "the Archivist has notified the Attorney General that former President Trump removed presidential records from the White House.
Removing or concealing government records is a criminal offense punishable by up to three years in prison, Maloney wrote. Former National Security Advisor Sandy Berger, for example, was prosecuted for taking classified documents from NARA. Former President Trump and his senior advisors must also be held accountable for any violations of the law.
Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)
Yonnie3 This message was self-deleted by its author.
BlueIdaho
(13,582 posts)Where is the DOJ? Crickets