Russian progress on Kyiv has 'stalled' with units 'surrendering without a fight', US official says

[AntiFascist]

Source: The Independent

Russia’s assault on Kyiv has “stalled” with some units “surrendering without a fight” to Ukrainian troops, according to a senior US defence official.

The official, who spoke to reporters on condition of anonymity on Tuesday, said that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s forces have come up against several logistical issues as they continue to struggle to take control of the Ukrainian capital.

Some units are running out of food and fuel while there are also challenges of a lack of experience among troops who never even knew they were being sent into combat, the official said.

As a result, the advance on the capital remains stuck “where it was yesterday” with some troops said to be surrendering to the Ukrainian military and civilians who have fought back to defend their country.

Read more: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/russia-ukraine-conflict-kyiv-us-b2025988.html

---

Now they need to distribute videos of those who surrendered.

[Irish_Dem]

1. Thank God, this keeps the Ukrainian people safer for the moment.

And makes Putin a military laughing stock.

[yaesu]

2. #BREAKING World Bank preparing $3 billion emergency aid package for Ukraine. nt

[KPN]

29. Wow! Great news! Thx.

[SheltieLover]

38. Yaaaaaay!

Ty!

🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦

[RussellCattle]

3. When I read "Now they need to distribute videos of those who surrendered", my first thought.....

.....was "If they do, please don't show any faces or other identification". The Russian soldiers on the ground are, we are told, young conscripts who don't want to be there in the first place. I'd hate to have any part in Putin's retaliation against them in the future. What a world, where I, an American, have more empathy for an "enemy" soldier than does his commander in chief.

[PatSeg]

6. I was thinking the same thing

[KPN]

31. Ditto. I get the point, but fear for what most likely

are innocents following orders because they have to.

[AntiFascist]

7. Good point...

I have seen videos where they blur faces.

[Bev54]

36. I have seen videos where they have not blurred the faces.

[reACTIONary]

10. +10 nt

[Strelnikov_]

21. Completely agree n/t

[fierywoman]

25. Retaliation against them or their families -- Putin IS that low.

[Igel]

33. I like the idea of Russian soldiers who hadn't killed

being granted asylum in the EU (or elsewhere). Let them be considered KIA or MIA until they can be reunited in Russia with their families.

I'd already be in favor of a EU country hosting, discretely, the Russian POW camps.

[Binkie The Clown]

4. I think the world as a whole...

is getting sick and tired of war. The time may come when, as we used to say in the 60s, "they give a war and nobody comes."

(fingers crossed)

[bigmonkey]

8. Eisenhower said it:

"I think that people want peace so much that one of these days government had better get out of their way and let them have it."

[BigmanPigman]

14. I still have that poster...

"What if they gave a war and nobody came?"

https://images.app.goo.gl/UWDRcLEw8dFwLqoX6

[wnylib]

23. Or, if the combatants made friends

with each other and laid down their arms, as happened for a few days around Christmas in WWI.

[BigmanPigman]

24. Wouldn't that be cool!

It is like a Hollywood ending.

[KPN]

32. And it may actually happen in Ukraine at a significant scale

[wnylib]

34. When this happened, they were in trenches

facing each other across no man's land. It was early in the war and the soldiers had no personal hard feelings against each other. Occasionally they exchanged a few non hostile words with each other prior to Christmas.

On Christmas Eve the English and French heard the Germans singing Silent Night. They began singing Christmas songs that the Germans could hear. I don't know which side made the first move, but they invited the other side to join them in a Christmas celebration. One man dared to step out alone from the trenches. When he was not shot a few others stepped out and then both sides did. They shared pictures of their families, food, and played games. It lasted all day Christmas Day and into the next days.

The superior officers ordered them back to their own places. They had to goad the soldiers into fighting again because they did not want to shoot at people they had made friends with.

There is a film about this, but I don't remember the title.

[Kali]

43. there is a song

have tissues ready, gets me every time

[wnylib]

44. Good song. Thanks.

[paleotn]

39. It's tougher to make war these days......

in a wired and integrated world. Too much reliance on your neighbors. Nation states aren't self sufficient anymore. Not even close. No where near enough to go to war and not get hammered in the process, even IF they win.

[ck4829]

5. Surrendering to Ukraine? warm bed, call home, get to live

Failing in your duties and returning to a Russian base? Who knows?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

52. "You have many slaves, Xerxes, but few warriors."

Just a very old quote.

[PortTack]

9. Military expert that I am...ha! I would think they need to destroy the road in front of the convoy

No road, vehicles stuck in the mud. Sitting ducks for the 70 fighter jets that were delivered yesterday to Poland

[Eyeball_Kid]

45. Another amateur thought:

The 40 mile long convoy should be all the way inside Ukraine. Once the supply line reaches inside the borders, destroy the supply lines. UKR has a lot of drone aircraft.

[csziggy]

51. The "40 mile long convoy" was a mistranslation - it's 3.25 miles long 40 miles from Kyiv

Russian military convoy traveling toward Kyiv, satellite images show
By Jessica Edwards
Sunday, Feb 27

Satellite images released Sunday show a large convoy of Russian ground forces in Ivankiv, Ukraine, according to Maxar Technologies.

According to a release from Maxar, the convoy extends for more than 3.25 miles and is moving in the direction of Kyiv, which is about 40 miles from the photographed location. There are hundreds of military vehicles in the convoy, including tanks and self-propelled artillery.

Kyiv’s mayor, Vitali Klitschko, told The Associated Press Sunday that Russian troops have circled the capital city, making it difficult to evacuate civilians. The mayor confirmed to the AP that nine civilians in Kyiv had been killed so far, including one child.

A senior U.S. defense official said Sunday there is no indication the Russian military has taken control of any cities, and that Ukrainians are putting up a “heroic and inspiring” fight to keep hold of their country.

More: https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/ukraine/2022/02/27/russian-military-convoy-traveling-toward-kyiv-satellite-images-show/

[Slammer]

54. ...but how you use it

Well, the convoy was being reported on many media sites as being 17 miles long before Belarus entered the war, using the same invasion corridor.

After that, reporters started reporting that the length had increased to 40 miles long.

Take that for what you will....

[dixiegrrrrl]

11. Speaking of being "stuck"

Many pictures of those abandoned Russian tanks and trucks show them up to their hubcaps in mud. Seems the winter thaw came 2 weeks early,
Means the vehicles can't operate off road.
So vehicles stalled ON the roadseem to be out of gas, and those stuck off road have gas but are not 4 wheel drive....snirk.

For those of us who remember pictures of WW2 tanks, etc. stuck in same mud area....way too ironic.

[wnylib]

28. The film, War and Remembrance,

shows scenes of the Nazi army bogged down in mud as they moved eastward. Now the Russian army falls into the same trap moving westward.

Similar story regarding George Washington as a young British officer in the French and Indian wars. I grew up in the region where this happened. The French had established 3 forts in what is now western PA and the current cities of Erie, Waterford, and Pittsburgh. The British sent young George to tell the French to get out.

Waterford is on low land beside a small lake, with a nearby creek. The soil is clay. In spring, when the snow melts and spring rains fall, the soil turns to muck. The lake and creek overflow. Washington was there in the spring.

The local library where I lived had Washington's personal diary from the mission. I read it while waiting for a tire repair nearby. Washington's soldiers, their horses, and carts were bogged down in the mud with cold rain falling steadily for days at a time. They couldn't even pitch tents because the tent posts would not stay standing in the mud.

Washington complained about the conditions for several days in his diary. Finally, in one entry he wrote (not verbatim but as close as I remember):

"What a Godforsaken country this is. Nothing but rain, mud, and swamp. I would let the French have it and turn back now if I were not entrusted by my superiors to carry out this mission. But it is scarely worth the trouble."

Some things don't change. People today have similar opinions of the region in the spring, although it is beautiful in summer.

[Torchlight]

35. There's a cool Russian word for that particular problem- Rasputitsa

Ironically, the Russian armies used it great advantage to slow down and harass the invading Germans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasputitsa




(I dunno why I think the word is cool, but it's fun to say)

[dixiegrrrrl]

56. Perfectly accurate.

I'm sure the Ukrainian s were waiting for exactly that.

I like the word, too...😄

[texasfiddler]

42. Putin doesn't believe in global warming. How ironic!! NT

[The Jungle 1]

47. Yea I was thinking the same thing.

The German tanks got stuck in the mud also due to an early thaw.

[Warpy]

12. Well, fog of war and all that, take it with a pound of salt

Ukraine seems to be wiping out the supply lines so the troops at the head of the column will be tired, hungry, cold, out of gas, out of cigarettes, and generally miserable. Several sources have said the troops weren't told what the mission was or that they'd be under fire, so that part might be true. Not sure about large scale surrender, though, nobody wants to be shot for cowardice.

[Srkdqltr]

13. Seems like they need to move soon or they are done.

I don't know much about war but this whole Russian thing isn't going well at all. They are making a mess of Ukraine for no real win.
When this is over Ukraine will have to get reparations from Russia. A lot of reparations.

[Beastly Boy]

15. I hope this is the reason the convoy hasn't been attacked by Ukrainian forces.

I like to think that the US intelligence was aware of the difficulties with fuel and food experienced by the convoy and shared it with the Ukrainians.

Instead of massive bloodshed, Ukraine can now claim a bloodless victory, and a major public relations boost that will resonate all the way to Russia. Not to mention turning all the young people in the convoy from enemies (or worse, fodder) to assets. Hopefully, they will all make it back to Russia and share their stories.

[AntiFascist]

17. Ukranians aren't being that nice, this is war after all...

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/01/us/politics/russia-ukraine-war-deaths.html

The Russian Defense Ministry spokesman, Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, acknowledged on Sunday for the first time that “there are dead and wounded” Russian troops but offered no numbers. He insisted Ukrainian losses were “many times” higher. Ukraine has said its forces have killed more than 5,300 Russian troops.

[Beastly Boy]

19. War is not just about military victories

It's mostly about killing, and opportunities to win a bloodless public relations victory are few and far between. All the more reason to take them when they come.

[AntiFascist]

20. I would agree, and getting the truth out to the Russian public should be a priority n/t

[lagomorph777]

49. Possibly less concern about killing, and more concern about salvaging hardware.

Ukraine has a war to win.

[roscoeroscoe]

16. On reddit, r/Ukraine, there are many posts about surrendering Russians

It's happening

[gab13by13]

18. This war isn't going to be pretty, like this thread.

it will be going on 3 months from now. Ukraine needs Stingers, Javelins, and arms and ammunition. They need training from us, they need logistical help from us.

Every former military expert I have listened to claims it is extremely difficult just to get weapons into Ukraine.

Putin is not going to give up that easily, he will bomb Ukraine relentlessly if he can't take over the country.

Putin will never defeat Ukraine but he can make the country a mess.

[dhol82]

26. This is the problem

If the Ukrainians manage to win this war, how will they be able to afford to rebuild what has been lost? It will ne a monumental task. Putin is determined to destroy as much as he can.

[TomSlick]

22. Please let this be true.

[bucolic_frolic]

30. An outbreak of surrender

Count me skeptical, until such reports are confirmed. The fog of war being what it is, truth being the first casualty of war, these reports may be intended to encourage surrender and impact enemy morale. Of course one can never tell when a snowball begins.

[patphil]

37. This may sound strange, and I have nothing to back it up but...

Could the Russian army's incompetence in this "invasion" be by design?
I know they have a conscript army, but there must be some units that are well trained and willing to fight. It just doesn't seem that any of them are in Ukraine.

Could it be that the military leadership has deliberately sent untrained, green troops to Ukraine, with the expectation that they would fail?
Are they deliberately trying to make Putin look bad?
Because, if this is the best they have, then Russia is fucked.

Just a thought, but it sure does look like the Russian army is one big F-Troop.

[AntiFascist]

40. Russia's army may have continued to decline in the last 20 years...

Here's a very telling (and sad) article on Russia's conscription process from 2002:

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/russia/russia1102-01.htm

Because Russia's youth is wracked with poor health, and because many of Russia's most healthy and educated young men successfully manage to avoid military service, recruitment officials are often left to select conscripts from a group of young men with low education levels and sometimes serious health problems. An unidentified Russian lawmaker told The Moscow Times that, in a speech to the State Duma, Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said the young men drafted in the fall of 2001 were a "pathetic lot, afflicted with drug addiction, psychological problems and malnutrition."35 Ministry of Defense statistics indicate that every second conscript had an alcohol problem prior to entering service, and that every fourth had been a drug user.36 In October 2001, Moscow's acting military commissioner Viktor Beznosikov also complained at a press conference about the decreasing level of education among new conscripts and the increasing number of new conscripts with a criminal record.37 A July 2002 edition of the web publication Grani.ru described the average conscript as a "young man who has not completed high school" who, prior to being drafted, "did not study or work and indulged in vodka and narcotics." It concluded that the "absolute majority of conscripts come from poor and socially disadvantaged families that do not have the means to enroll the young man in paid education or buy them a false certificate for deferral."

[Sapient Donkey]

46. During the 2010's didn't they have that whole "New Look" program

in which they not only started the process of modernization, but also restructured everything to be able to handle stuff like a conflict similar to this one?

I wonder what happened with all that.

[thucythucy]

53. There was an article posted here yesterday

that talked about that.

Apparently, the person in charge of that stepped on too many toes--trying to worm out all the corruption that had various oligarchs siphoning off funds and delivering shoddy goods or no goods at all.

He was fired, and all the reforms he put into place were undone.

It's what happens in a dictatorship where grift is the go-to for the higher-ups.

[Sapient Donkey]

55. Oh wow, I have to search for that article on here.

That must have been within the last 4 or 5 years, aye? I read about last year in some 2017 report from the DIA about the state of the Russian military. I haven't read anything more current than that, though.

[thucythucy]

57. A link to the article was posted here

maybe two days ago.

I wish I'd bookmarked it, but it was a link to a long Tweeter feed that ran down all those developments. Maybe do a search for "Russian military reforms" or something like that?

[thucythucy]

58. I think I found it for you!

Link to tweet

[Sapient Donkey]

59. Thanks. That was an interesting read.

I found a few books/reports on the internet that are more current that I plan on getting around to reading this weekend. Well, it's between that or finishing the tool I'm creating to translate audio videos from Russia or Ukrainian to English text. There's probably stuff that already does that and does it much better than I can, but I like doing things the hard way.

[JohnSJ]

41. I hope so

[The Jungle 1]

48. I bet a good book could be written about war and mud.

Mud stops wheels!
It would also be interesting to find out who was responsible for the timing of this invasion. Bet they end up with a glass of funny tasting ice tea.

[malthaussen]

50. If true, it won't be the first time a Russian army has staged a General Strike. n/t